I think it was also well received because it was better than his typical posts. I honestly do believe that it was a remarkable improvement that ought to be celebrated. Nevertheless, it does not reflect typical religious DL views https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-voice-from-the-front-2
From the last post: "But from a religious Zionist perspective (see Rav Eliezer Melamed’s discussion here, here and here), the starting point is that every able-bodied Jew has an obligation to serve in the army and try to protect the Jewish People."
My called up son returned to Israel after many months in America on one of the free flights last week. Upon arriving, his commander told him something to the effect of "I'm too busy and can't deal with the paperwork and other burdens of bringing you in now, stay home." No joke. Given the 130% turnout for the mobilization, this should not surprise anyone.
At a kiddush this last Shabbat, in my yishuv that is a DL stronghold, several women, with sons who were mobilized and in combat units, told him that if his commander told him to stay home, they were grateful to have another armed man around, and assured him he was very much wanted here. My own ears heard them say this. They were not resentful even one bit, even though their sons will likely be in any ground action.
Unlike these women, Natan and his sycophants ARE resentful and they have no reason to be. Do you count yourself among them?
My son is not doing nothing either. He volunteers for the local yishuv guard that has been set up. There are a limited number of armed men and many shifts to man.
There is no one answer, even for able-bodied men. We all have a role, and stirring up yet more discord and hatred at this time is uncalled for. And no one in the Charedi world pays a bit of attention to the quoted rabbi anyway. They too are contributing to the war effort, in their way.
"they were grateful to have another armed man around, and assured him he was very much wanted here. My own ears heard them say this. They were not resentful even one bit, even though their sons will likely be in any ground action."
Because he was armed and would be protecting them!!!!!!
You really have a problem with nuance don't you? Unless something changes, he won't be facing combat, while their sons likely will. He sleeps in a comfortable bed at night, while their sons suffer various levels of privation. They have much more reason to be resentful than you do.
There are many armed men in Beitar, for example, who also contribute to local security. They also have locals volunteering for garbage collection, among other tasks being done for the benefit of the local and national public.
The issue isn't a particular individual who for whatever reason doesn't serve, or serves in a non-combat role, or guarding his own Yishuv. Not everyone needs to be a combat soldier in a special unit.
The problem begins when *entire communities don't serve*. In my son's neighborhood, 70 out of 100 adult men were called up, in a different community the statistics could be 1 out of 100. In one community 70% of wives or mothers aren't sleeping at night, while in another community, as active as the residents are helping chayyalim in various ways, and busy and engaged as they may be, no one is living with gut-wrenching fear on a daily basis.
Great! If the Chareidim are willing to pick up weapons to defend the Yishuv then we can conscript them for that! The Gerer Rebbe opposed it. Shas was for it. The Gerer Rebbe won out. What's new?!
Wonderful that your son is volunteering in the Yishuv Guard, and that he is trained to use a weapon which he is using to protect the yishuv. Presumably the volunteer hours means that he is spending less time in the Beit Midrash than he would be if he wasn't volunteering.
Would you say that this is typical of the people in his Yishuv, that most of the men are spending time out of the Beit Midrash defending the yishuv, or volunteering for the war effort in other ways, or is your son an exception.
If most of the able-bodied men in the yishuv have followed your son's example, and reduced their time in the Beit Midrash so that they can physically protect the land (in addition to spiritually protecting through their Talmud Torah, Tfillot, and Ma'asim Tovim), than this is a wonderful change in attitude from at least part of the Haredi community.
I live in a DL yishuv. I was clear about that. There is a Beit Midrash here, several actually, but many men don't spend any time time in them. It is largely composed of baalabatim who work.
More tone deafness. See my comment to Natan for the point of my comment.
Previous posts had 262 and 230 mostly-negative comments; this one had eight (8) comments, and yet you claim it was "well-received".
The post was actually offensive, an attempt to stir up machlokes. You were smart to hide it behind a pay wall, because you know darn well you would have been called out for it, and rightfully so.
Everyone in the county - secular and religious - is united. I see videos every day of charedim doing everything they can, visiting the breaved, bringing food, helping with kvurah, even joining the army in record numbers. I've not heard a peep of complaint from the soliders themselves, the only ones that matter. Yet you began your post baselessly asserting, "And when this war is over, there is going to be a rift between charedi and Zionist society which will be greater than ever seen before." That's called stirring up machlokes.
Because (A) charedim are helping, but virtually none are in combat, and (B) the ones you don't see on videos are the 150,000 not helping who are in yeshiva.
1) The soldiers themselves show no signs of such ill feelings, only those not serving or who never served.
2) If only combat counts then none of the female soldiers count. Same for those in the medic corps, transport, food supply, logistics, etc. Same for everyone playing a role in keeping the country running. The fact that certain groups are at risk deserves our recognition and thanks, but doesn't mean others aren't pulling their weight.
3) Regardless of whether you are right or I am right - one should not be פורץ
גדר at this time. At a later point we can go back to the same old debates (which includes political blame games.) Right now is a time to focus on our real enemies. You saw the Guy Hochman videos going around? That's our focus, and nothing else.
3) poretz geder?? Focus on real enemies?? The charedi community is being poretz geder in standing aside and not focusing on fighting our real enemies. Rav Dovid Cohen thundered against bnei yeshivah helping in any way at all, even with chesed projects.
I've been very involved in the sugya of the amma, the shortest legitimate size I know of is 17.5 inches, or 44.5 cm, presented in ספר מידות ושיעורי תורה by Rabbi Chaim Benish, based on both archeology and the Rambam. Are you looking for smaller than that?
(As far as your first point, I always was of the impression that it would be more effective with the tone of your last article.)
It might. Too early to tell either way. Part of the problem is increasingly going to be 'mihu charedi?' For reasons which aren't clear, certain people are offended when the wrong kind of charedim enlist. https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/a-basic-law/comment/21331818 Also, a few weeks before the war broke out, a Knesset committee held a hearing on the topic. https://www.knesset.tv/committees/the-state-control-committee/video/60781/ Avigdor Lieberman complained that certain charedim/ chardalim are religious fanatics who refuse to work on a base with women. He also seemed offended that they demand mehadrin food. (Really. I kid you not.)
Wish I could help with the translation. I can translate to Russian, but that has little to zero value in both Charedi and Dati Leumi circles, probably.
"בסיום השיחה אמרנו שני יסודות ואלה המה. הא' מאמרם ז"ל בב"ב דף י' דהרוגי לוד אין כל בריה יכולה לעמוד במחיצתן. והוא משום שמסרו נפשם בעד ישראל. וכזה אני אומר על אלה שמוסרים נפשם עבור הצלתנו שאין כל העולם יכול לעמוד במחיצתם. והחיוב שיש עלינו להתפלל עליהם הוא בלי גבול, שהרי רק עבור הפותח פתח לחברו אמרו ז"ל נפשו חייב לו, קו"ח למי שמוסר נפשו בעדינו החיוב עלינו בלי גבול הוא."
He seems to be saying that people [soldiers] who give up their lives for the Clal are on the highest possible [spiritual] level...and then says that means that one should daven for them, and that the tzibbur "owes" them an infinite debt.
But don't Chareidim want to be on the highest spiritual level? If so, shouldn't they be the ones fighting, and not the ones davening?
Maybe you can translate the post yourself. Feed it into Google Translate and edit what comes out. I assume that you have lived in Israel long enough to edit Google Translate Hebrew-->English output well enough to make it look translated by a human.
So you locked the post to non subscribers, that's your choice.
Now you write how well received it was. Haha. Very unrationalist of you.
I think it was also well received because it was better than his typical posts. I honestly do believe that it was a remarkable improvement that ought to be celebrated. Nevertheless, it does not reflect typical religious DL views https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-voice-from-the-front-2
Well received because comments were restricted to paid subscribers. Rationalism and confirmation bias do go hand in hand.
There are more comments at this critical response than in your referred-to post:
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-sign-that-mashiach-is-coming-natan/
המכנה שם לחברו אין לו חלק לעולם הבא
המכנה שם לחברו אין לו חלק לעולם הבא
What about calling people "myopic narcissists"? Is that ok?
Well….you are to be fair….
From the last post: "But from a religious Zionist perspective (see Rav Eliezer Melamed’s discussion here, here and here), the starting point is that every able-bodied Jew has an obligation to serve in the army and try to protect the Jewish People."
My called up son returned to Israel after many months in America on one of the free flights last week. Upon arriving, his commander told him something to the effect of "I'm too busy and can't deal with the paperwork and other burdens of bringing you in now, stay home." No joke. Given the 130% turnout for the mobilization, this should not surprise anyone.
At a kiddush this last Shabbat, in my yishuv that is a DL stronghold, several women, with sons who were mobilized and in combat units, told him that if his commander told him to stay home, they were grateful to have another armed man around, and assured him he was very much wanted here. My own ears heard them say this. They were not resentful even one bit, even though their sons will likely be in any ground action.
Unlike these women, Natan and his sycophants ARE resentful and they have no reason to be. Do you count yourself among them?
My son is not doing nothing either. He volunteers for the local yishuv guard that has been set up. There are a limited number of armed men and many shifts to man.
There is no one answer, even for able-bodied men. We all have a role, and stirring up yet more discord and hatred at this time is uncalled for. And no one in the Charedi world pays a bit of attention to the quoted rabbi anyway. They too are contributing to the war effort, in their way.
"they were grateful to have another armed man around, and assured him he was very much wanted here. My own ears heard them say this. They were not resentful even one bit, even though their sons will likely be in any ground action."
Because he was armed and would be protecting them!!!!!!
You really have a problem with nuance don't you? Unless something changes, he won't be facing combat, while their sons likely will. He sleeps in a comfortable bed at night, while their sons suffer various levels of privation. They have much more reason to be resentful than you do.
There are many armed men in Beitar, for example, who also contribute to local security. They also have locals volunteering for garbage collection, among other tasks being done for the benefit of the local and national public.
The issue isn't a particular individual who for whatever reason doesn't serve, or serves in a non-combat role, or guarding his own Yishuv. Not everyone needs to be a combat soldier in a special unit.
The problem begins when *entire communities don't serve*. In my son's neighborhood, 70 out of 100 adult men were called up, in a different community the statistics could be 1 out of 100. In one community 70% of wives or mothers aren't sleeping at night, while in another community, as active as the residents are helping chayyalim in various ways, and busy and engaged as they may be, no one is living with gut-wrenching fear on a daily basis.
Exactly. And this is something that many charedim fail to understand. It's a community-level issue.
Great! If the Chareidim are willing to pick up weapons to defend the Yishuv then we can conscript them for that! The Gerer Rebbe opposed it. Shas was for it. The Gerer Rebbe won out. What's new?!
Wonderful that your son is volunteering in the Yishuv Guard, and that he is trained to use a weapon which he is using to protect the yishuv. Presumably the volunteer hours means that he is spending less time in the Beit Midrash than he would be if he wasn't volunteering.
Would you say that this is typical of the people in his Yishuv, that most of the men are spending time out of the Beit Midrash defending the yishuv, or volunteering for the war effort in other ways, or is your son an exception.
If most of the able-bodied men in the yishuv have followed your son's example, and reduced their time in the Beit Midrash so that they can physically protect the land (in addition to spiritually protecting through their Talmud Torah, Tfillot, and Ma'asim Tovim), than this is a wonderful change in attitude from at least part of the Haredi community.
I live in a DL yishuv. I was clear about that. There is a Beit Midrash here, several actually, but many men don't spend any time time in them. It is largely composed of baalabatim who work.
More tone deafness. See my comment to Natan for the point of my comment.
Previous posts had 262 and 230 mostly-negative comments; this one had eight (8) comments, and yet you claim it was "well-received".
The post was actually offensive, an attempt to stir up machlokes. You were smart to hide it behind a pay wall, because you know darn well you would have been called out for it, and rightfully so.
An attempt to stir up machlokes??!!
Everyone in the county - secular and religious - is united. I see videos every day of charedim doing everything they can, visiting the breaved, bringing food, helping with kvurah, even joining the army in record numbers. I've not heard a peep of complaint from the soliders themselves, the only ones that matter. Yet you began your post baselessly asserting, "And when this war is over, there is going to be a rift between charedi and Zionist society which will be greater than ever seen before." That's called stirring up machlokes.
Because (A) charedim are helping, but virtually none are in combat, and (B) the ones you don't see on videos are the 150,000 not helping who are in yeshiva.
1) The soldiers themselves show no signs of such ill feelings, only those not serving or who never served.
2) If only combat counts then none of the female soldiers count. Same for those in the medic corps, transport, food supply, logistics, etc. Same for everyone playing a role in keeping the country running. The fact that certain groups are at risk deserves our recognition and thanks, but doesn't mean others aren't pulling their weight.
3) Regardless of whether you are right or I am right - one should not be פורץ
גדר at this time. At a later point we can go back to the same old debates (which includes political blame games.) Right now is a time to focus on our real enemies. You saw the Guy Hochman videos going around? That's our focus, and nothing else.
1) you spoke to them all? And all their families?
2) will address in next post
3) poretz geder?? Focus on real enemies?? The charedi community is being poretz geder in standing aside and not focusing on fighting our real enemies. Rav Dovid Cohen thundered against bnei yeshivah helping in any way at all, even with chesed projects.
Offensive because the truth hurts. Time for Chareidim to own up to their misdeeds.
I've been very involved in the sugya of the amma, the shortest legitimate size I know of is 17.5 inches, or 44.5 cm, presented in ספר מידות ושיעורי תורה by Rabbi Chaim Benish, based on both archeology and the Rambam. Are you looking for smaller than that?
(As far as your first point, I always was of the impression that it would be more effective with the tone of your last article.)
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rkavmflzp
There are changes happening in the charedi society. This war can become a powerful catalist.
It might. Too early to tell either way. Part of the problem is increasingly going to be 'mihu charedi?' For reasons which aren't clear, certain people are offended when the wrong kind of charedim enlist. https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/a-basic-law/comment/21331818 Also, a few weeks before the war broke out, a Knesset committee held a hearing on the topic. https://www.knesset.tv/committees/the-state-control-committee/video/60781/ Avigdor Lieberman complained that certain charedim/ chardalim are religious fanatics who refuse to work on a base with women. He also seemed offended that they demand mehadrin food. (Really. I kid you not.)
Politicians are adept at moving goalposts.
ChatGPT may help for translation
Wish I could help with the translation. I can translate to Russian, but that has little to zero value in both Charedi and Dati Leumi circles, probably.
Rav Chaim Shmulevitz [Yom Kippur War]:
"בסיום השיחה אמרנו שני יסודות ואלה המה. הא' מאמרם ז"ל בב"ב דף י' דהרוגי לוד אין כל בריה יכולה לעמוד במחיצתן. והוא משום שמסרו נפשם בעד ישראל. וכזה אני אומר על אלה שמוסרים נפשם עבור הצלתנו שאין כל העולם יכול לעמוד במחיצתם. והחיוב שיש עלינו להתפלל עליהם הוא בלי גבול, שהרי רק עבור הפותח פתח לחברו אמרו ז"ל נפשו חייב לו, קו"ח למי שמוסר נפשו בעדינו החיוב עלינו בלי גבול הוא."
He seems to be saying that people [soldiers] who give up their lives for the Clal are on the highest possible [spiritual] level...and then says that means that one should daven for them, and that the tzibbur "owes" them an infinite debt.
But don't Chareidim want to be on the highest spiritual level? If so, shouldn't they be the ones fighting, and not the ones davening?
Very famous speech. How does that come in to this post? (Or do you just bring it up because of the war now?)
Maybe you can translate the post yourself. Feed it into Google Translate and edit what comes out. I assume that you have lived in Israel long enough to edit Google Translate Hebrew-->English output well enough to make it look translated by a human.
Translation is very delicate thing. Google Translate is awful for translating anything longer than a word.