114 Comments
Nov 22, 2023·edited Nov 22, 2023

The country is moved by the charedi response and the media is full of positive stories. This realy ticks off Slifkin and he goes off shooting out posts to incite, bismerch, divide while twisting and misrepresenting the reality. He can't stand that the charedim are integrating and uses every opportynity to be מסית ומדיח.

Watch these clips to see what is happening in reality and compare it to Slifkin's take.

https://youtu.be/i5yb3J2VN3c?si=baVKB2xspgzoltzY

https://youtu.be/1Zam8tKjzb0?si=NMdDkL_fu3ZyeJ-C

https://www.inn.co.il/news/620868

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OOHH, you just made my day! Looking forward to that really salaciously delicious Lashon Harah about those evil Charedim. Can't wait!!!

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Nov 22, 2023Liked by Natan Slifkin

Everytime I see a "ביחד ננצח" poster here in Israel, I can't help but think that most of the Charedi population has no interest in being "ביחד" and probably not the "ננצח" part either, and it's a painful reality each time. My Charedi sister has no clue where or why my neighbor's soldier son died on Oct 7 because it didn't happen in Kiryat Sefer and therefore doesn't affect her. Gaza may as well be Mars, and she wants nothing to do with it. She's told me so. "We don't get involved in such things."

Please keep writing about this issue because it is so important for the truth to be told, and you are one of the only ones willing to do it. And you do it with a clear head, without sarcasm or hatred, laying out the facts so they can speak for themselves. Please know that your efforts are appreciated.

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Nov 22, 2023Liked by Natan Slifkin

Thank you for your posts on this issue. These articles have helped many families including my own navigate the challenge of families with a range of Hashkafot eg. Hesder and Kollel. It has helped us articulate some of the issues that we have with those who do not send their children to the army and helped create a constructive and amicable dialogue. It’s unfortunate that so many readers have seen the posts over the past several weeks as creating disunity. I have found the opposite to be the case. Sharing honest perspectives leads to greater unity. Hiding or denying our resentment, anger or pain will not help the cause of unity. I would argue that it can make it worse. I once heard in the name of Rav Kook that this is the explanation for וקרב אתם אחד אל אחד לך לעץ אחד והיו לאחדים בידך - Achadim or ones - meaning that true unity is when two opposing camps have an open, honest and respectful discussion of their opinions and weltanschauung. Thank you Rabbi Dr. Slifkin for facilitating this very important discussion and helping many families during these emotional times.

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You’re picking the easy argument so you can win. The real argument against your recent posts about charedim is not the the content. It is entirely possible to make the same essential points, but as constructive criticism coming with sincerity about the value of achdus instead of as potshots listing everything bad about them so you can win your argument. A smart person who cares about his people recognizes the reality of where they are and does not get consumed by wishful thinking about where they really should be or resentment and negativity about how bad it is that they’re there. THIS is what separates you from the MO world, leaving you a controversial outsider rather than a respected voice. There are many great people in the MO world who don’t disagree with your observations but they know better than to make this an ordinary “spat” at any time but especially at a time when we should all be making an effort to build bridges. Make your important points but speak as a caring relative who seeks and values the positives. This will revolutionize your effect on people (unless your goal is to have a controversial blog that attracts attention…)

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I find your writings very interesting and the points made need to be said. Very few people within the Orthodox have ever tackled such controversy. Kol Hakavod! Keep writing, write on and right on.

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I believe you missed a "Group" F -- those who actively attack soldiers. The very same soldiers who are providing a safe environment for those who despise the medina and its solders so they can raise their families and live their lives in safety.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredi-extremists-attack-ultra-orthodox-reserve-soldier-in-bnei-brak/

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"The charedim who aren’t doing anything don’t get publicity. Accordingly, it’s very difficult to form an accurate picture of the situation."

That's because the chareidim who "aren't doing anything" aren't making a lot of noise. But the non-chareidim who are REALLY not doing anything, except writing psychotics hate posts, are making a lot of noise!

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Please don't include the naturei karta under the rubric of chareidi. That's too low.

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"Knowledge is important. It’s crucial to know what the situation actually is. It is relevant in so many ways - deciding who to vote for, which causes to support, which community to affiliate with, which rabbis to look to for guidance, which influences to expose our children to, who needs outreach, who is representative of a community and who is not. And you can’t fix deficiences in achdus if you’re not even aware of the nature of the problem."

I agree with this. I hope that you will provide actual statistics from a reputable source, rather than hot-takes from anonymous letter writers or some viral video of someone shooting their mouth off. https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/an-unnatural-fixation-with-charedim/comment/36902679

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There are various approaches in the Charedei world, aside for Satmar. Maybe some only accept the state begrudgingly. But for the most part, the issues are religious in nature, being opposed to the secularism. The Sephardim are pro the state with secular vs. religious being a completely separate issue. In any case, the issues that arise because of religious considerations is not easy to solve.

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Rabbi Slifkin, I don't understand why you are so focused on one part of the population who sincerely cares about the rest of the country and exemplifies the trait of Ahavas Yisrael. Sure, they may not be sending many soldiers, but the people of Israel are in their hearts and prayers, and that counts as well. And there is a huge increase in the number of soldiers they are sending, which is a massive change, that is much more than the raw numbers. The comparison to WW2 planes makes no sense. If you meant to say only a small number of chareidim are joining, why do you need Abraham Wald? But really, the question is if these holy Jews care, and the answer is that they do, at least as much as you do. That they have different ideas how to best help has no bearing on that fact.

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"researchers from the Center for Naval Analyses"

I worked for the Center for Naval Analyses for four years before going to graduate school....

"Abraham Wald, a religious Jewish statistician "

and not I, too, am a religious Jewish statistician.

"survivorship bias"

This remains a major concern for scientific research today. For example, in epidemiologic research, if you only enroll people who are a certain age or above, you lose all information on those who die before that age. Example: cigarette smoking may appear to prevent dementia in a study -- because the smokers all died before they were old enough to be enrolled in the study, much less get dementia.

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Anybody and everybody who is an Israeli civilian must contribute physically to the IDF, with virtually no exceptions. In WWII the Quakers served heroically in the medical core. The Charadeim need to be trained to serve in some measurable and effective way in the defense of the country. Davening and learning Torah is fine, but it does not meet the requirements.

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It's the video taken in the mir, correct?

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"Criticizing people for harming achdus is not harming achdus" yes it is , atleast in this case , you are not convincing anyone you are only growing the divide.

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