There are no words. My sister said she's been to their house for Shabbat meals. Just a senseless, horrible tragedy. The girls' father told the news that he has been having nightmares while sleeping and wakes up to a reality that was worse than the nightmare. I can't even imagine his pain. I read that and hugged my boys tightly. Hamakom yenachem otam.
It is events like these that highlight the advantage of the mystical approach. I for one believe that such tragedies have deeper meaning and Hashem has a plan for all of us. מי שמאמין לא מפחד.
In contrast, the rationalist approach looks like tragedies like this as mere coincidence or happenstance. And that loss of meaning is in itself an additional tragedy.
What plan is that? Is it the same one that gave us churban bayit rishon, churban bayit shayni, multiple holy inquisitions, the holocaust, to mention just a few of Hashem’s monstrous exterminations. Yeah, there must be a deeper meaning. Let me know what it is when his next carnage smacks you in the face.
If I were you, I’d put my trust in someone other than an entity that kills you every time he feels that he’s been disrespected.
Yeah, that one. The one that also gave me my life, my wife, my beautiful kids, my Parnassus, my anything and everything, and ultimate reward both in this world and the next.
Stories like these are so heartbreaking and frustrating I prefer to switch of Israeli news
On a side point, I may be a British Jew who has to put up with the stream of anti Israeli sentiment in the UK press from even so called neutral papers but to me the Isralei hasbara/PR is woeful
Every time one of these attacks happens the UK press refer to settlements, occupation, apartheid, Al Aksa provocations, etc as if they are to be expected or even tolerated!
Even the BBC stoop to such depths, for example referring to the Paley murders in Ramot being a "settlement in East Jerusalem" (absolute lies)!
About time we called a spade and spade and reiterated one message and one message only:
"There are many Palestinian Muslims who would like to leave in peace alongside their Jewish companions. HOWEVER there are many who wish to murder their Jewish companions purely because they are Jewish infidels!
Nothing to do with territory, occupation, apartheid. Doesn't matter if the govt includes Ben Gvir or Yitzchak Rabin. If the govt is hawkish or doveish. If land is given to the Arabs or taken from them.
This is an ideological war with an enemy who hates us more than they love their own children "
Maybe then the Gentiles will wake up and realise the monster we have to deal with - and be more sympathetic to when we have to deal with the monster
Spending Pesach in Israel makes me feel the pain more.
We look to our leaders to guide us.
And so, tonight in Bnei Brak, when Rav Asher Weiss gave his famous Chol Hamoed Shiur, he took the opportunity to mention the pain we are feeling about the loss of these two sisters, as well as the loss of two brothers recently as well.
He pretended to be in the center, but the moment he had a chance to gain power he veered left, made a coalition with other leftists, and governed like a leftist during Covid.
I am surprised you didn't mention the antisemitism your descendents would be likely to face, in the future as Jews in non-jewish counties. And large scale persecultion or even extermination like we saw in the holocaust or other pogroms and massacres
There are no words that can adequately describe the horror of the murder of the two girls.
Rabbi Slifkin, you describe the awful realities of our situation in Israel; but you don't present a solution. I didn't really expect to see one as I don't know if there really is a solution. Israel screwed up several times in our history, namely in 1948 and in 1967. We should never have allowed Arab refugee camps to exist in the first place. Historically, populations have moved as a result of wars and border changes. As an example, somewhere between 14 and 18 MILLION people were resettled due to the partition of India and Pakistan. Country after country has done this (see the subject "Popularion_transfer" in Wikipedia)... except for Israel. But, unfortunately, it appears to be too late now. So we're stuck with this horrible reality.
One thing I am certain of is this: only from a position of strength will we have any chance to survive (al pi tevah, at least). Peace (or should we say 'quiet') comes from strength. We must have a strong, pro-active, pro-Jewish government for there to be any semblence of peace. Capitulation and kum-ba-yah peace talks show the Arabs that we are weak and can be overcome and destroyed. That, unfortunately, is the real reality.
We should have lobbied harder to not allow Arab refugee camps to exist in the first place
The arabs were in a weak position in '48 Israel could have conditioned its acceptance of the armistice treaty on Arabs absorbing its refugees as did Israel
Syria and Lebanon, are failed states that are so weak that they can't make peace now.
...
The reason they cannot make peace is that their hatred of Israel overcomes their desire to get out of their weakness. If they were weaker still there may be some hope
I'm not talking about the Arab countries surrounding Israel (well, we must learn to ignore some of their dumb demands of us). I'm talking about the Arabs who live in the merkaz and south, the ones that call themselves Palestinians. You show weakness to them and that simply provokes them more and more.
The Arabs in the north (where I live) are Israelis. Yes, there are occasional problems but those are mostly hoodlum or criminal related, not nationalistic. These Arabs are doctors (2 of mine), policemen, and hold every other kind of job you might think of.
Clarification- when I say Palestinian society, I mean the ideas that clearly 1. Teach hate 2. Glorify terrorists 3. Actively (and sadly sometimes successfully) try to deny who Jews are and erase our connection to our land.
There is no permanent solution, however the honor/shame mentality needs to be front and center in the minds of the Israeli leaders meaning that we need to stop 1/2 measures when we decide to engage. That when is not for me as an American to decide. There are other actions that need to be taken though imho. The complete dismantle of UNRWRA schools that teach hate. And I don’t understand why Israel’s PR is so bad. The shaking of Palestinians who are terrorists should be front and center. No one cares how good Israel is, the world hates Jews. But as we let media, especially Israeli media demonize it’s own rather than bring how awful Palestinian society is, would be a step forward.
With all the brilliant minds in Israel, how come it is so difficult to counter the 1950s KGB propaganda that created the concept of the "Palestinian" peoplehood?
Because it doesn't matter. Why? Because many peoplehoods" in the world are rather recent. The Jewish connection to the Land of Israel certainly predates the "Palestinian" connect by centuries. But where is that argument going to work? The Scotts are recent to Scotland, the Hungarians are not indigenous to Hungary, and the Turks invaded Turkey. Israel's Jews preceded the emergence of all these other peoples. Are they going to be sympathetic to the claims of a people whose existence predates their own by centuries?
Your point is valid, but it implicitly negates the nationalism of the peoples you want to convince with your counter-propaganda!
I'd suggest the Rabbi watch some of Corey Gil-Shuster's videos on YouTube. I'm sure even living in Israel one will be surprised as to how deep the hate runs.
This is the tragedy of the Human condition and especially the Jewish condition. And, it hurts the more when it is so close to home. If the USA MSM media reports this unthinkable cowardly despicable act of the killing innocent females they will of course mention that Israel has killed some palastinians or Israel is an Arpartheid state or some other sickening rationalization. For starters the world must condemn these acts, otherwise it is as if they condone them and they will never stop. Part of me thinks such vile acts should not go unrevenged, but hopefully revenged against the non innocent.
THEY MUST GO. It's not emotions, it's Halacha. Torah warns us against leaving hostile enemies living in our land. It doesn't even matter how long they occupied our land (canaanites for example). Twisting Torah is a problem that is further causing more tragedies. It could only get closer (G-D forbid)
There are no words. My sister said she's been to their house for Shabbat meals. Just a senseless, horrible tragedy. The girls' father told the news that he has been having nightmares while sleeping and wakes up to a reality that was worse than the nightmare. I can't even imagine his pain. I read that and hugged my boys tightly. Hamakom yenachem otam.
Horrific. השם ינקם דמם.
It is events like these that highlight the advantage of the mystical approach. I for one believe that such tragedies have deeper meaning and Hashem has a plan for all of us. מי שמאמין לא מפחד.
In contrast, the rationalist approach looks like tragedies like this as mere coincidence or happenstance. And that loss of meaning is in itself an additional tragedy.
@Ash
What plan is that? Is it the same one that gave us churban bayit rishon, churban bayit shayni, multiple holy inquisitions, the holocaust, to mention just a few of Hashem’s monstrous exterminations. Yeah, there must be a deeper meaning. Let me know what it is when his next carnage smacks you in the face.
If I were you, I’d put my trust in someone other than an entity that kills you every time he feels that he’s been disrespected.
Yeah, that one. The one that also gave me my life, my wife, my beautiful kids, my Parnassus, my anything and everything, and ultimate reward both in this world and the next.
and what is that deeper meaning?
I haven't the faintest. Only Hashem knows. I merely trust him.
And that loss of meaning ....
what meaning is lost? trust is mot a meaning.
Stories like these are so heartbreaking and frustrating I prefer to switch of Israeli news
On a side point, I may be a British Jew who has to put up with the stream of anti Israeli sentiment in the UK press from even so called neutral papers but to me the Isralei hasbara/PR is woeful
Every time one of these attacks happens the UK press refer to settlements, occupation, apartheid, Al Aksa provocations, etc as if they are to be expected or even tolerated!
Even the BBC stoop to such depths, for example referring to the Paley murders in Ramot being a "settlement in East Jerusalem" (absolute lies)!
About time we called a spade and spade and reiterated one message and one message only:
"There are many Palestinian Muslims who would like to leave in peace alongside their Jewish companions. HOWEVER there are many who wish to murder their Jewish companions purely because they are Jewish infidels!
Nothing to do with territory, occupation, apartheid. Doesn't matter if the govt includes Ben Gvir or Yitzchak Rabin. If the govt is hawkish or doveish. If land is given to the Arabs or taken from them.
This is an ideological war with an enemy who hates us more than they love their own children "
Maybe then the Gentiles will wake up and realise the monster we have to deal with - and be more sympathetic to when we have to deal with the monster
Spending Pesach in Israel makes me feel the pain more.
We look to our leaders to guide us.
And so, tonight in Bnei Brak, when Rav Asher Weiss gave his famous Chol Hamoed Shiur, he took the opportunity to mention the pain we are feeling about the loss of these two sisters, as well as the loss of two brothers recently as well.
good article on Israel winning the conflict
https://www.danielpipes.org/21639/how-can-israel-win-the-palestinian-conflict
How Can Israel Win the Palestinian Conflict?
Historian Explains
Agreed. Corbyn is far far worse.
Generosity towards undefeated enemies which Israel does, invited more terror. See Gaza withdrawal.
He pretended to be in the center, but the moment he had a chance to gain power he veered left, made a coalition with other leftists, and governed like a leftist during Covid.
I am surprised you didn't mention the antisemitism your descendents would be likely to face, in the future as Jews in non-jewish counties. And large scale persecultion or even extermination like we saw in the holocaust or other pogroms and massacres
There are no words that can adequately describe the horror of the murder of the two girls.
Rabbi Slifkin, you describe the awful realities of our situation in Israel; but you don't present a solution. I didn't really expect to see one as I don't know if there really is a solution. Israel screwed up several times in our history, namely in 1948 and in 1967. We should never have allowed Arab refugee camps to exist in the first place. Historically, populations have moved as a result of wars and border changes. As an example, somewhere between 14 and 18 MILLION people were resettled due to the partition of India and Pakistan. Country after country has done this (see the subject "Popularion_transfer" in Wikipedia)... except for Israel. But, unfortunately, it appears to be too late now. So we're stuck with this horrible reality.
One thing I am certain of is this: only from a position of strength will we have any chance to survive (al pi tevah, at least). Peace (or should we say 'quiet') comes from strength. We must have a strong, pro-active, pro-Jewish government for there to be any semblence of peace. Capitulation and kum-ba-yah peace talks show the Arabs that we are weak and can be overcome and destroyed. That, unfortunately, is the real reality.
Not a model you want to emulate.
....
In retrospect, If Israel had expelled all of them, Thousands of innocent Jewish lives would have been saved, which makes it perfectly justified.
We should have lobbied harder to not allow Arab refugee camps to exist in the first place
The arabs were in a weak position in '48 Israel could have conditioned its acceptance of the armistice treaty on Arabs absorbing its refugees as did Israel
Syria and Lebanon, are failed states that are so weak that they can't make peace now.
...
The reason they cannot make peace is that their hatred of Israel overcomes their desire to get out of their weakness. If they were weaker still there may be some hope
I'm not talking about the Arab countries surrounding Israel (well, we must learn to ignore some of their dumb demands of us). I'm talking about the Arabs who live in the merkaz and south, the ones that call themselves Palestinians. You show weakness to them and that simply provokes them more and more.
The Arabs in the north (where I live) are Israelis. Yes, there are occasional problems but those are mostly hoodlum or criminal related, not nationalistic. These Arabs are doctors (2 of mine), policemen, and hold every other kind of job you might think of.
המקום ינחם אתכם
ה׳ יקום דמם
* shaming not shaking!
Clarification- when I say Palestinian society, I mean the ideas that clearly 1. Teach hate 2. Glorify terrorists 3. Actively (and sadly sometimes successfully) try to deny who Jews are and erase our connection to our land.
There is no permanent solution, however the honor/shame mentality needs to be front and center in the minds of the Israeli leaders meaning that we need to stop 1/2 measures when we decide to engage. That when is not for me as an American to decide. There are other actions that need to be taken though imho. The complete dismantle of UNRWRA schools that teach hate. And I don’t understand why Israel’s PR is so bad. The shaking of Palestinians who are terrorists should be front and center. No one cares how good Israel is, the world hates Jews. But as we let media, especially Israeli media demonize it’s own rather than bring how awful Palestinian society is, would be a step forward.
With all the brilliant minds in Israel, how come it is so difficult to counter the 1950s KGB propaganda that created the concept of the "Palestinian" peoplehood?
Because it doesn't matter. Why? Because many peoplehoods" in the world are rather recent. The Jewish connection to the Land of Israel certainly predates the "Palestinian" connect by centuries. But where is that argument going to work? The Scotts are recent to Scotland, the Hungarians are not indigenous to Hungary, and the Turks invaded Turkey. Israel's Jews preceded the emergence of all these other peoples. Are they going to be sympathetic to the claims of a people whose existence predates their own by centuries?
Your point is valid, but it implicitly negates the nationalism of the peoples you want to convince with your counter-propaganda!
We need to convince ourselves. As long as we have Jews who hate Haredim more than they fear terrorists, we have no chance.
I'd suggest the Rabbi watch some of Corey Gil-Shuster's videos on YouTube. I'm sure even living in Israel one will be surprised as to how deep the hate runs.
This is the tragedy of the Human condition and especially the Jewish condition. And, it hurts the more when it is so close to home. If the USA MSM media reports this unthinkable cowardly despicable act of the killing innocent females they will of course mention that Israel has killed some palastinians or Israel is an Arpartheid state or some other sickening rationalization. For starters the world must condemn these acts, otherwise it is as if they condone them and they will never stop. Part of me thinks such vile acts should not go unrevenged, but hopefully revenged against the non innocent.
Senseless and horrid. I can't express how painful a read this was. I fully support the state of Israel but sometimes tragedy is hard to accept.
THEY MUST GO. It's not emotions, it's Halacha. Torah warns us against leaving hostile enemies living in our land. It doesn't even matter how long they occupied our land (canaanites for example). Twisting Torah is a problem that is further causing more tragedies. It could only get closer (G-D forbid)
It's common sense approach that has been practiced throught the human history.
monotheists only have a right to live in Israel if they adhere to 7 mitzvos. Murdering jews invalidates their right.