I just wish the United States had as low a homicide rate -- and as low a rate of deaths from terrorism -- as does Israel. And I wish that the United States took every such death as seriously as Israel does. :( :(
There are no words. My sister said she's been to their house for Shabbat meals. Just a senseless, horrible tragedy. The girls' father told the news that he has been having nightmares while sleeping and wakes up to a reality that was worse than the nightmare. I can't even imagine his pain. I read that and hugged my boys tightly. Hamakom yenachem otam.
Raging about Arabs is pointless. So is pondering solutions devoid of clinging to our traditions. It is not about them. It is about us, collectively. Seems like ancient history today, but the below famous story is more appropriate than ever. Sadly, also very timely. Consider, the next time someone claims a mechallel Shabbos or chometz-eater on Pesach in the army is doing more for the Jews than those loyal to our traditions.
by Jonathan Rosenblum, Jerusalem Post, July 28, 2000
Salah Tamari, a former Palestinian terrorist told Israeli journalist Aharon Barnea of the complete transformation he underwent in an Israeli prison. While in prison, he had completely despaired of any hope that the Palestinians would one day realize any of their territorial dreams, and so he was ready to renounce the struggle.
Then, one Pesach, he witnessed his Jewish warder eating a pita sandwich. Tamari was shocked, and asked his jailer how he could so unashamedly eat bread on Pesach.
The Jew replied: 'I feel no obligation to events that took place over 2,000 years ago. I have no connection to that.'
That entire night Tamari could not sleep. He thought to himself: 'A nation whose members have no connection to their past, and are capable of so openly transgressing their most important laws - that nation has cut off all its roots to the Land.'
He concluded that the Palestinians could, in fact, achieve all their goals. From that moment, he determined 'to fight for everything - not a percentage, not such crumbs as the Israelis might throw us - but for everything. Because opposing us is a nation that has no connection to its roots, which are no longer of interest to it.'
Tamari goes on to relate how he shared this insight with 'tens of thousands of his colleagues, and all were convinced.'
THE severance of connection to a Jewish past is one of the chief goals of the branja (clique), which, as alarmingly described by Yoram Hazony in his book, The Jewish State: The Struggle for Israel's Soul, dominates Israeli intellectual life, and whose influence is felt in every sphere - education, the military, and the judiciary.
It is events like these that highlight the advantage of the mystical approach. I for one believe that such tragedies have deeper meaning and Hashem has a plan for all of us. מי שמאמין לא מפחד.
In contrast, the rationalist approach looks like tragedies like this as mere coincidence or happenstance. And that loss of meaning is in itself an additional tragedy.
Stories like these are so heartbreaking and frustrating I prefer to switch of Israeli news
On a side point, I may be a British Jew who has to put up with the stream of anti Israeli sentiment in the UK press from even so called neutral papers but to me the Isralei hasbara/PR is woeful
Every time one of these attacks happens the UK press refer to settlements, occupation, apartheid, Al Aksa provocations, etc as if they are to be expected or even tolerated!
Even the BBC stoop to such depths, for example referring to the Paley murders in Ramot being a "settlement in East Jerusalem" (absolute lies)!
About time we called a spade and spade and reiterated one message and one message only:
"There are many Palestinian Muslims who would like to leave in peace alongside their Jewish companions. HOWEVER there are many who wish to murder their Jewish companions purely because they are Jewish infidels!
Nothing to do with territory, occupation, apartheid. Doesn't matter if the govt includes Ben Gvir or Yitzchak Rabin. If the govt is hawkish or doveish. If land is given to the Arabs or taken from them.
This is an ideological war with an enemy who hates us more than they love their own children "
Maybe then the Gentiles will wake up and realise the monster we have to deal with - and be more sympathetic to when we have to deal with the monster
Spending Pesach in Israel makes me feel the pain more.
We look to our leaders to guide us.
And so, tonight in Bnei Brak, when Rav Asher Weiss gave his famous Chol Hamoed Shiur, he took the opportunity to mention the pain we are feeling about the loss of these two sisters, as well as the loss of two brothers recently as well.
I am surprised you didn't mention the antisemitism your descendents would be likely to face, in the future as Jews in non-jewish counties. And large scale persecultion or even extermination like we saw in the holocaust or other pogroms and massacres
There are no words that can adequately describe the horror of the murder of the two girls.
Rabbi Slifkin, you describe the awful realities of our situation in Israel; but you don't present a solution. I didn't really expect to see one as I don't know if there really is a solution. Israel screwed up several times in our history, namely in 1948 and in 1967. We should never have allowed Arab refugee camps to exist in the first place. Historically, populations have moved as a result of wars and border changes. As an example, somewhere between 14 and 18 MILLION people were resettled due to the partition of India and Pakistan. Country after country has done this (see the subject "Popularion_transfer" in Wikipedia)... except for Israel. But, unfortunately, it appears to be too late now. So we're stuck with this horrible reality.
One thing I am certain of is this: only from a position of strength will we have any chance to survive (al pi tevah, at least). Peace (or should we say 'quiet') comes from strength. We must have a strong, pro-active, pro-Jewish government for there to be any semblence of peace. Capitulation and kum-ba-yah peace talks show the Arabs that we are weak and can be overcome and destroyed. That, unfortunately, is the real reality.
"many of these Arabs are descendants of the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who lived here in the 19th century, when there were only a few thousand Jews here"
Substitute "16th century" for "19th century" and you still have a true statement. The late Prof. Bernard Lewis actually looked at the Ottoman census data. I don't think that the Mamluk census records have survived but there wasn't a large Jewish community in that period either -- the Crusaders seem to have almost exterminated us.
Clarification- when I say Palestinian society, I mean the ideas that clearly 1. Teach hate 2. Glorify terrorists 3. Actively (and sadly sometimes successfully) try to deny who Jews are and erase our connection to our land.
There is no permanent solution, however the honor/shame mentality needs to be front and center in the minds of the Israeli leaders meaning that we need to stop 1/2 measures when we decide to engage. That when is not for me as an American to decide. There are other actions that need to be taken though imho. The complete dismantle of UNRWRA schools that teach hate. And I don’t understand why Israel’s PR is so bad. The shaking of Palestinians who are terrorists should be front and center. No one cares how good Israel is, the world hates Jews. But as we let media, especially Israeli media demonize it’s own rather than bring how awful Palestinian society is, would be a step forward.
Your words betray you. You are not sending your son, a grown man, to hesder. He is making the choice, perhaps with your encouragement, and is going with your blessing. There is a difference. May Hashem protect him along with all our soldiers.
With all the brilliant minds in Israel, how come it is so difficult to counter the 1950s KGB propaganda that created the concept of the "Palestinian" peoplehood?
I just wish the United States had as low a homicide rate -- and as low a rate of deaths from terrorism -- as does Israel. And I wish that the United States took every such death as seriously as Israel does. :( :(
There are no words. My sister said she's been to their house for Shabbat meals. Just a senseless, horrible tragedy. The girls' father told the news that he has been having nightmares while sleeping and wakes up to a reality that was worse than the nightmare. I can't even imagine his pain. I read that and hugged my boys tightly. Hamakom yenachem otam.
Raging about Arabs is pointless. So is pondering solutions devoid of clinging to our traditions. It is not about them. It is about us, collectively. Seems like ancient history today, but the below famous story is more appropriate than ever. Sadly, also very timely. Consider, the next time someone claims a mechallel Shabbos or chometz-eater on Pesach in the army is doing more for the Jews than those loyal to our traditions.
https://www.jewishmediaresources.com/93/why-arafat-wont-compromise
by Jonathan Rosenblum, Jerusalem Post, July 28, 2000
Salah Tamari, a former Palestinian terrorist told Israeli journalist Aharon Barnea of the complete transformation he underwent in an Israeli prison. While in prison, he had completely despaired of any hope that the Palestinians would one day realize any of their territorial dreams, and so he was ready to renounce the struggle.
Then, one Pesach, he witnessed his Jewish warder eating a pita sandwich. Tamari was shocked, and asked his jailer how he could so unashamedly eat bread on Pesach.
The Jew replied: 'I feel no obligation to events that took place over 2,000 years ago. I have no connection to that.'
That entire night Tamari could not sleep. He thought to himself: 'A nation whose members have no connection to their past, and are capable of so openly transgressing their most important laws - that nation has cut off all its roots to the Land.'
He concluded that the Palestinians could, in fact, achieve all their goals. From that moment, he determined 'to fight for everything - not a percentage, not such crumbs as the Israelis might throw us - but for everything. Because opposing us is a nation that has no connection to its roots, which are no longer of interest to it.'
Tamari goes on to relate how he shared this insight with 'tens of thousands of his colleagues, and all were convinced.'
THE severance of connection to a Jewish past is one of the chief goals of the branja (clique), which, as alarmingly described by Yoram Hazony in his book, The Jewish State: The Struggle for Israel's Soul, dominates Israeli intellectual life, and whose influence is felt in every sphere - education, the military, and the judiciary.
Horrific. השם ינקם דמם.
It is events like these that highlight the advantage of the mystical approach. I for one believe that such tragedies have deeper meaning and Hashem has a plan for all of us. מי שמאמין לא מפחד.
In contrast, the rationalist approach looks like tragedies like this as mere coincidence or happenstance. And that loss of meaning is in itself an additional tragedy.
Stories like these are so heartbreaking and frustrating I prefer to switch of Israeli news
On a side point, I may be a British Jew who has to put up with the stream of anti Israeli sentiment in the UK press from even so called neutral papers but to me the Isralei hasbara/PR is woeful
Every time one of these attacks happens the UK press refer to settlements, occupation, apartheid, Al Aksa provocations, etc as if they are to be expected or even tolerated!
Even the BBC stoop to such depths, for example referring to the Paley murders in Ramot being a "settlement in East Jerusalem" (absolute lies)!
About time we called a spade and spade and reiterated one message and one message only:
"There are many Palestinian Muslims who would like to leave in peace alongside their Jewish companions. HOWEVER there are many who wish to murder their Jewish companions purely because they are Jewish infidels!
Nothing to do with territory, occupation, apartheid. Doesn't matter if the govt includes Ben Gvir or Yitzchak Rabin. If the govt is hawkish or doveish. If land is given to the Arabs or taken from them.
This is an ideological war with an enemy who hates us more than they love their own children "
Maybe then the Gentiles will wake up and realise the monster we have to deal with - and be more sympathetic to when we have to deal with the monster
Spending Pesach in Israel makes me feel the pain more.
We look to our leaders to guide us.
And so, tonight in Bnei Brak, when Rav Asher Weiss gave his famous Chol Hamoed Shiur, he took the opportunity to mention the pain we are feeling about the loss of these two sisters, as well as the loss of two brothers recently as well.
good article on Israel winning the conflict
https://www.danielpipes.org/21639/how-can-israel-win-the-palestinian-conflict
How Can Israel Win the Palestinian Conflict?
Historian Explains
I am surprised you didn't mention the antisemitism your descendents would be likely to face, in the future as Jews in non-jewish counties. And large scale persecultion or even extermination like we saw in the holocaust or other pogroms and massacres
There are no words that can adequately describe the horror of the murder of the two girls.
Rabbi Slifkin, you describe the awful realities of our situation in Israel; but you don't present a solution. I didn't really expect to see one as I don't know if there really is a solution. Israel screwed up several times in our history, namely in 1948 and in 1967. We should never have allowed Arab refugee camps to exist in the first place. Historically, populations have moved as a result of wars and border changes. As an example, somewhere between 14 and 18 MILLION people were resettled due to the partition of India and Pakistan. Country after country has done this (see the subject "Popularion_transfer" in Wikipedia)... except for Israel. But, unfortunately, it appears to be too late now. So we're stuck with this horrible reality.
One thing I am certain of is this: only from a position of strength will we have any chance to survive (al pi tevah, at least). Peace (or should we say 'quiet') comes from strength. We must have a strong, pro-active, pro-Jewish government for there to be any semblence of peace. Capitulation and kum-ba-yah peace talks show the Arabs that we are weak and can be overcome and destroyed. That, unfortunately, is the real reality.
"many of these Arabs are descendants of the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who lived here in the 19th century, when there were only a few thousand Jews here"
Substitute "16th century" for "19th century" and you still have a true statement. The late Prof. Bernard Lewis actually looked at the Ottoman census data. I don't think that the Mamluk census records have survived but there wasn't a large Jewish community in that period either -- the Crusaders seem to have almost exterminated us.
המקום ינחם אתכם
* shaming not shaking!
Clarification- when I say Palestinian society, I mean the ideas that clearly 1. Teach hate 2. Glorify terrorists 3. Actively (and sadly sometimes successfully) try to deny who Jews are and erase our connection to our land.
There is no permanent solution, however the honor/shame mentality needs to be front and center in the minds of the Israeli leaders meaning that we need to stop 1/2 measures when we decide to engage. That when is not for me as an American to decide. There are other actions that need to be taken though imho. The complete dismantle of UNRWRA schools that teach hate. And I don’t understand why Israel’s PR is so bad. The shaking of Palestinians who are terrorists should be front and center. No one cares how good Israel is, the world hates Jews. But as we let media, especially Israeli media demonize it’s own rather than bring how awful Palestinian society is, would be a step forward.
Your words betray you. You are not sending your son, a grown man, to hesder. He is making the choice, perhaps with your encouragement, and is going with your blessing. There is a difference. May Hashem protect him along with all our soldiers.
With all the brilliant minds in Israel, how come it is so difficult to counter the 1950s KGB propaganda that created the concept of the "Palestinian" peoplehood?