Here’s another miscue courtesy of the entertainment and education of delirious chareidism.
. Every year there’s a peculiar halachic dichotomy among the faithful and the super-duper faithful that is likely to provoke Hashem to become vexed at the tortured halachisisms proliferating in the corridors of chareidi piety. Where to start? — Kitniyot— some of your friends are on their way to Gehenim for indulging in Sefardi Pesach food practices while Ashkenazim adhering to their gebrokts hokum are assured an everlasting intoxicated euphoria while נהנים מזיו השכינה .
There are scores of other examples but it’s getting late here in חוץ לארץ and I have to worry about Hashem discovering that I’m being עובר the Torah commandment that forbids me celebrating 2 days of פסח.
But maybe not. If I can get Hashem to change his mind and forgive my sins on Yom Kipur, maybe I can convince him to modify the Torah also …just as the Reform Jews have done.
I love you and I genuinely enjoy your comments, although, as a religious dude, I wish you weren't so closed to our rich and beautiful heritage. But I can't well blame you; the 'other side' isn't so easy to navigate; maybe I have it wrong...?
I'm open to an atheist debate which we can do in private and publicize when done if you're interested, although we've both probably heard all of the arguments on both sides more than enough times.
Yeah we clowns are the educators and entertainers. It’s the only source of probity to the irrationalist delusionals.
This is not the venue to replay the vast arguments against the notion for a creator, unless Rav Slifkin approves.
Suffice it to say yours is the most self-promotional mutual admiration society since the onset of opposite sex attraction.
And I will have a tremendously spiritual Shabbos kvelling in the Architect-Of -The-Universe’s warning, upon pain of death, not to pick out the bones from my homemade gefilte fish during Shabbos.
As I said, we can chat about this topic in private. Everything you deride and ridicule is perfectly legitimate if you are wrong, but if you are not, it's pretty darn sad. So let's have this debate! You can email me...
I’ve had debates like this before and it’s really a waste of time because your argumentation is tethered to unfalsifiability. I would produce scientific arguments against your beliefs ( and that’s all that they are — beliefs). And you would retort with something like the Kuzari argumentation or a variant thereof. I would debunk it as unscientific bunkum and you would respond, No It’s Not. And that would end the debate right there.
So why waste my time. I’ve done this before and there’s no convincing a True Believer.
Hell, you’re convinced that studying Torah motivates The Creator to protect you from harm. How can one convince otherwise ?
Did someone summon me? I just want everybody to know, I am buying souls for $100,000. I'm offering $200,000 for particularly saintly souls. Slifkin sold his soul to me 20 years ago for half a bottle of cheap vodka. I couldn't believe my luck. That should answer your question.
Rabbi Rimon points out that the shiur of כדי אכילת פרס is the time to eat 8-9 olives. So it makes no sense to have a large shiur for the olive and a short shiur for the time to eat it
The logic of a olive for matzah becomes apparent when you realize matzah was soft and a piece could be easily rolled up into a small round ball the size of an olive and then just pop it in your mouth.
Since we have grown olive trees from ancient olives, and have thousand year old olive trees, I've never really understood why the size of an olive is controversial.
My (yeshivish) rav said there is never a reason to eat two kezaisim at once, especially if you hold of a large kezayis, since the large kezayis would by definition include the kezayis for hamotzi, which doesn't need to large according to anyone.
I do believe that is in the MB (maybe in BH or SZ). The two kezizim business is a d'rabbonon/minhag (and a pretty incomprehensible one at that - no one is really sure of the reason) and clearly if your one d'oreysoh covers the two d'rabbonons it's fine.
I am aware. That is a suggested reason, on which there are lots of questions. The hamotzi was made on both, for a start. And besides, why does everybody at the seider have to eat two kezeisim?
Also lechem oni applies to sholem matzo too. 'Mah darkoh shel oni b'prusah' is a drush, nobody suggests you cannot be yotzei the mitzvoh of achilas matzo with a sholem.
"There is no source that those not eating from the קערה need to eat 2 zaysim.
There are ראשונים who say explicitly to use a פרוסה for that purpose, and the Rif and Rosh and Gra use that source to allow a broken matza to count for לחם משנה."
We are back to classic yeshivah style learning. Sources but not thoughts.
I can't speak for everybody, but in most sedorim, many if not all of the participants each matzo from the box - there isn't enough from the 'ba'al haseider'. They neither have 'perusos' or should have a requirement for 2 kezeisim.
The ROsh and the gro are irrelevant to this particular point.
1. Believe what you want, but the Torah mentions money in the years prior to Matan Torah, more than once. So obviously your sources have made some mistake.
2. The Chazon Ish discusses the fact that money is manmade and Torah precedes that. He claims human nature is that money is necessary, which makes it an integral part of creation. Alternatively, we are commanded to set currency in order to keep the laws of tort and other issues dependent on money.
FKM's claim about olive volumes declining due to the destruction of the beis hamikdash is irrelevant. The Gemara in Brachos 38b says that R. Yochanan (who lived after the churban) said borei nefashos after eating an olive.
You're positing that 200 years after the churban, R. Yochanan ate an olive that happened to be larger than contemporary olives due to the after-effects of the beis hamikdash, but when the Gemara tries to work out how R. Yochanan ate a kezayis volume given that he would not have eaten the olive's pit, it neglected to mention this. Come on.
Sorry, I'm not following you. FKM argues that olives used to be larger than they are now, and that this larger size should be used to establish the volume of a kezayis. He maintains that olives shrunk due to the churban, when ניטלה שומן הפירות.
I noted that R. Yochanan considered an olive in his time to be a kezayis volume for ברכה אחרונה purposes, and he lived around 2 centuries after the churban.
You claimed that R. Yochanan may have eaten an olive that was large due to the after-effects of the churban having not yet fully materialised.
I believe this is not only far fetched but also does not fit with the context of the Gemara there (unless you are claiming that all olives in R. Yochanan's time were still large due to the after-effects of the beis hamikdash), because the Gemara there questions how R. Yochanan ate a kezayis given that he would not have consumed the volume accounted for by the olive's pit. The Gemara answers that R. Yochanan ate a large olive, the volume of which without its pit is equivalent to a medium sized olive (which is used for the kezayis measurement). The ניטלה שומן הפירות angle does not come into it, and the Rif, for example, cites the Gemara without qualification.
Posting (without his permission) for our friend, Eli Yitzchak Fine:
Hey dear fellows, here is another great article about rationalism and pesach! https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-rationalist-approach-to-pesach
Great reading material to keep you entertained and educated about our view of the dangers of rationalism!
@Jerry S.
Here’s another miscue courtesy of the entertainment and education of delirious chareidism.
. Every year there’s a peculiar halachic dichotomy among the faithful and the super-duper faithful that is likely to provoke Hashem to become vexed at the tortured halachisisms proliferating in the corridors of chareidi piety. Where to start? — Kitniyot— some of your friends are on their way to Gehenim for indulging in Sefardi Pesach food practices while Ashkenazim adhering to their gebrokts hokum are assured an everlasting intoxicated euphoria while נהנים מזיו השכינה .
There are scores of other examples but it’s getting late here in חוץ לארץ and I have to worry about Hashem discovering that I’m being עובר the Torah commandment that forbids me celebrating 2 days of פסח.
לֹא תֹסִפוּ, עַל-הַדָּבָר אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי מְצַוֶּה אֶתְכֶם, וְלֹא תִגְרְעוּ, מִמֶּנּוּ--לִשְׁמֹר, אֶת-מִצְוֺת יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם, אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי, מְצַוֶּה אֶתְכֶם.
But maybe not. If I can get Hashem to change his mind and forgive my sins on Yom Kipur, maybe I can convince him to modify the Torah also …just as the Reform Jews have done.
You're such a clown.
I love you and I genuinely enjoy your comments, although, as a religious dude, I wish you weren't so closed to our rich and beautiful heritage. But I can't well blame you; the 'other side' isn't so easy to navigate; maybe I have it wrong...?
I'm open to an atheist debate which we can do in private and publicize when done if you're interested, although we've both probably heard all of the arguments on both sides more than enough times.
Either way, have a great shabbos!
@Jerry S.
Yeah we clowns are the educators and entertainers. It’s the only source of probity to the irrationalist delusionals.
This is not the venue to replay the vast arguments against the notion for a creator, unless Rav Slifkin approves.
Suffice it to say yours is the most self-promotional mutual admiration society since the onset of opposite sex attraction.
And I will have a tremendously spiritual Shabbos kvelling in the Architect-Of -The-Universe’s warning, upon pain of death, not to pick out the bones from my homemade gefilte fish during Shabbos.
As I said, we can chat about this topic in private. Everything you deride and ridicule is perfectly legitimate if you are wrong, but if you are not, it's pretty darn sad. So let's have this debate! You can email me...
@ Jerry S.
I’ve had debates like this before and it’s really a waste of time because your argumentation is tethered to unfalsifiability. I would produce scientific arguments against your beliefs ( and that’s all that they are — beliefs). And you would retort with something like the Kuzari argumentation or a variant thereof. I would debunk it as unscientific bunkum and you would respond, No It’s Not. And that would end the debate right there.
So why waste my time. I’ve done this before and there’s no convincing a True Believer.
Hell, you’re convinced that studying Torah motivates The Creator to protect you from harm. How can one convince otherwise ?
Okay, I guess that's that then.
Good shabbos!
I will summon the Devil to answer this question
Did someone summon me? I just want everybody to know, I am buying souls for $100,000. I'm offering $200,000 for particularly saintly souls. Slifkin sold his soul to me 20 years ago for half a bottle of cheap vodka. I couldn't believe my luck. That should answer your question.
Because one is a threat to a certain world view
I was taught by my rebbeim to use a standard kezayis size, not the huge shiurim of Rabbi Bodner.
Good old days before Slifkin cracked up. Poor chap!
Rabbi Rimon points out that the shiur of כדי אכילת פרס is the time to eat 8-9 olives. So it makes no sense to have a large shiur for the olive and a short shiur for the time to eat it
The logic of a olive for matzah becomes apparent when you realize matzah was soft and a piece could be easily rolled up into a small round ball the size of an olive and then just pop it in your mouth.
Gosh, you're so original!
Easy enough lettuce is soft and flexible and can be rolled up as well.
Have to admit, it's a pretty funny graphic. Let this be Natan Slifkin's greatest contribution.
Since we have grown olive trees from ancient olives, and have thousand year old olive trees, I've never really understood why the size of an olive is controversial.
And for an irrationalist (well , part aspiring rationalist) Passover: https://ishayirashashem.substack.com/p/a-new-baby-and-a-boris-the-terrible
Yes, indeed
My (yeshivish) rav said there is never a reason to eat two kezaisim at once, especially if you hold of a large kezayis, since the large kezayis would by definition include the kezayis for hamotzi, which doesn't need to large according to anyone.
I do believe that is in the MB (maybe in BH or SZ). The two kezizim business is a d'rabbonon/minhag (and a pretty incomprehensible one at that - no one is really sure of the reason) and clearly if your one d'oreysoh covers the two d'rabbonons it's fine.
I am aware. That is a suggested reason, on which there are lots of questions. The hamotzi was made on both, for a start. And besides, why does everybody at the seider have to eat two kezeisim?
Also lechem oni applies to sholem matzo too. 'Mah darkoh shel oni b'prusah' is a drush, nobody suggests you cannot be yotzei the mitzvoh of achilas matzo with a sholem.
"There is no source that those not eating from the קערה need to eat 2 zaysim.
There are ראשונים who say explicitly to use a פרוסה for that purpose, and the Rif and Rosh and Gra use that source to allow a broken matza to count for לחם משנה."
We are back to classic yeshivah style learning. Sources but not thoughts.
I can't speak for everybody, but in most sedorim, many if not all of the participants each matzo from the box - there isn't enough from the 'ba'al haseider'. They neither have 'perusos' or should have a requirement for 2 kezeisim.
The ROsh and the gro are irrelevant to this particular point.
Oh really! What did Avrohom use to pay Efron? Sheep?
PS What is 'money', by the way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81DYZh6KaQ
Except that עובר לסוחר has a meaning.
That comment seems irrelevant.
A סוחר will only take money that is of good quality. Still money.
1. Believe what you want, but the Torah mentions money in the years prior to Matan Torah, more than once. So obviously your sources have made some mistake.
2. The Chazon Ish discusses the fact that money is manmade and Torah precedes that. He claims human nature is that money is necessary, which makes it an integral part of creation. Alternatively, we are commanded to set currency in order to keep the laws of tort and other issues dependent on money.
FKM's claim about olive volumes declining due to the destruction of the beis hamikdash is irrelevant. The Gemara in Brachos 38b says that R. Yochanan (who lived after the churban) said borei nefashos after eating an olive.
You're positing that 200 years after the churban, R. Yochanan ate an olive that happened to be larger than contemporary olives due to the after-effects of the beis hamikdash, but when the Gemara tries to work out how R. Yochanan ate a kezayis volume given that he would not have eaten the olive's pit, it neglected to mention this. Come on.
Sorry, I'm not following you. FKM argues that olives used to be larger than they are now, and that this larger size should be used to establish the volume of a kezayis. He maintains that olives shrunk due to the churban, when ניטלה שומן הפירות.
I noted that R. Yochanan considered an olive in his time to be a kezayis volume for ברכה אחרונה purposes, and he lived around 2 centuries after the churban.
You claimed that R. Yochanan may have eaten an olive that was large due to the after-effects of the churban having not yet fully materialised.
I believe this is not only far fetched but also does not fit with the context of the Gemara there (unless you are claiming that all olives in R. Yochanan's time were still large due to the after-effects of the beis hamikdash), because the Gemara there questions how R. Yochanan ate a kezayis given that he would not have consumed the volume accounted for by the olive's pit. The Gemara answers that R. Yochanan ate a large olive, the volume of which without its pit is equivalent to a medium sized olive (which is used for the kezayis measurement). The ניטלה שומן הפירות angle does not come into it, and the Rif, for example, cites the Gemara without qualification.