This is a recurring theme that comes up every taanis. Secularist jews are confused about what there is to mourn when there is a thriving secular state. So they make up new, cynical reasons. But Torah observant Jews don't need to make up new reasons. The Rambam says יש שם ימים שכל ישראל מתענים בהם מפני הצרות שאירעו בהן כדי לעורר הלבבות לפתוח דרכי התשובה ויהיה זה זכרון למעשינו הרעים ומעשה אבותינו שהיה כמעשינו עתה עד שגרם להם ולנו אותן הצרות. שבזכרון דברים אלו נשוב להיטיב שנאמר והתודו את עונם ואת עון אבותם וגו': The reasons why we were exiled still exist and haunt us to this day.
And of course, because of our continued sins, the exile is not at all over, there is no Mashiach, there is no Bais Hamikdash, there is no Sanhedrin, most of the promises of the Neviim have not been fulfilled, and Israel is still not at peace and is under constant, serious threat from its neighbors, with no end in sight. So despite the fact we may be materially comfortable at this very instant (as was the case many times throughout our exile), we still have good reason to mourn.
Those Palestinian refugees are not real refugees. Anywhere else on Earth a refuge has this status for 10 years, why do the 3rd and 4th generation get refuge status? To weaponize them against Israel.
In 1948, when Pakistan was founded, over 10 million ppl were displaced, after ww2 12 million ethnic Germans were displaced from Poland and the Czeck Rep. Who is whining today about them?
They decided to go to war, lost it and went away. End of the story! But no, Israel should accept a huge fifth column to self-destroy...
Jews living continuously in the land of Israel for thousands of years is backed up by a wealth of archeological findings. Its documented in the Book of the Maccabees and in Josephus' book The Jew War (against the Romans).
Its also a documented fact that since the 1500s Jewish communities existed throughout Israel especially in Tzefat, Tveria, Hevron and Jerusalem.
Prior to the 1900s the entire region was part of the Ottoman Empire or Arabia with very few independent states. After the fall of the Ottoman empire Britain and France divided the region into different states giving 99% to the Arabs and only Palestine to the Jews (actually it was the entire Trans-Jordan that was supposed to go to the Jews). If anything, palestinian arabs should be treated as greedy and selfish. Just imagine for a second if it was the other way around and the entire region except for 1% was given to Jews and yet the Jews still fought to have that remaining 1%. The world would hate the greedy Jews and do whatever it could to fight for the palestinian arab right to just 1%.
My computer froze in the middle and I lost the Word doc that I was working off of, but I hope to continue posting more later.
Now that we have incontrovertible evidence that Chazal were not unilaterally opposed to supporting Torah scholars who are sitting and learning as you ridiculously claim, are we going to get a retraction from you? Or are you going to continue walking around with egg on your face?
I have a great reason why we don't view the current sovereignty so highly to not require fasting anymore on the 10th of Teves.
The current sovereignty was NOT spearheaded by the likes of Zrubavel, Nehemiah and men of the Anshei Knesses Hagedolah.
The current State of Israel was created mostly by atheists and Jews that despised their own religion!
It's a fact. Ben Gurion hated Judiasm! Granted there is a powerful army and a government, however - I know this may surprise you - but that relates to the physical element, not the spiritual component.
This would be enough for the English, the Spanish and the Zionist, but it's NOT enough for Jews that actually care about the spiritual component.
Yes, there are many shomer torah umitzvos in Israel, but most are not, and the sovernighty and many of its laws are secular and anti Torah.
Therefore, we should not only mourn....we should perhaps institute another day of mourning for the current sovereignty, on, say, the 5th of Iyar?
"The Talmud says that in the current era, when the Temple is destroyed, but we are not plagued with harsh decrees, the status of minor fasts depends on the will of the Jewish people: “If they want to fast, they do so; if they do not want, they do not fast.”
This is a recurring theme that comes up every taanis. Secularist jews are confused about what there is to mourn when there is a thriving secular state. So they make up new, cynical reasons. But Torah observant Jews don't need to make up new reasons. The Rambam says יש שם ימים שכל ישראל מתענים בהם מפני הצרות שאירעו בהן כדי לעורר הלבבות לפתוח דרכי התשובה ויהיה זה זכרון למעשינו הרעים ומעשה אבותינו שהיה כמעשינו עתה עד שגרם להם ולנו אותן הצרות. שבזכרון דברים אלו נשוב להיטיב שנאמר והתודו את עונם ואת עון אבותם וגו': The reasons why we were exiled still exist and haunt us to this day.
And of course, because of our continued sins, the exile is not at all over, there is no Mashiach, there is no Bais Hamikdash, there is no Sanhedrin, most of the promises of the Neviim have not been fulfilled, and Israel is still not at peace and is under constant, serious threat from its neighbors, with no end in sight. So despite the fact we may be materially comfortable at this very instant (as was the case many times throughout our exile), we still have good reason to mourn.
Those Palestinian refugees are not real refugees. Anywhere else on Earth a refuge has this status for 10 years, why do the 3rd and 4th generation get refuge status? To weaponize them against Israel.
In 1948, when Pakistan was founded, over 10 million ppl were displaced, after ww2 12 million ethnic Germans were displaced from Poland and the Czeck Rep. Who is whining today about them?
They decided to go to war, lost it and went away. End of the story! But no, Israel should accept a huge fifth column to self-destroy...
Let them try, let us never give up.
צום קל!
Jews living continuously in the land of Israel for thousands of years is backed up by a wealth of archeological findings. Its documented in the Book of the Maccabees and in Josephus' book The Jew War (against the Romans).
Its also a documented fact that since the 1500s Jewish communities existed throughout Israel especially in Tzefat, Tveria, Hevron and Jerusalem.
Prior to the 1900s the entire region was part of the Ottoman Empire or Arabia with very few independent states. After the fall of the Ottoman empire Britain and France divided the region into different states giving 99% to the Arabs and only Palestine to the Jews (actually it was the entire Trans-Jordan that was supposed to go to the Jews). If anything, palestinian arabs should be treated as greedy and selfish. Just imagine for a second if it was the other way around and the entire region except for 1% was given to Jews and yet the Jews still fought to have that remaining 1%. The world would hate the greedy Jews and do whatever it could to fight for the palestinian arab right to just 1%.
Natan, I posted a bunch of those ma'amarei Chazal that you were looking for on that ignorant post about 'defying Chazal'.
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/defying-chazal-is-not-holy/comment/11600242
My computer froze in the middle and I lost the Word doc that I was working off of, but I hope to continue posting more later.
Now that we have incontrovertible evidence that Chazal were not unilaterally opposed to supporting Torah scholars who are sitting and learning as you ridiculously claim, are we going to get a retraction from you? Or are you going to continue walking around with egg on your face?
I have a great reason why we don't view the current sovereignty so highly to not require fasting anymore on the 10th of Teves.
The current sovereignty was NOT spearheaded by the likes of Zrubavel, Nehemiah and men of the Anshei Knesses Hagedolah.
The current State of Israel was created mostly by atheists and Jews that despised their own religion!
It's a fact. Ben Gurion hated Judiasm! Granted there is a powerful army and a government, however - I know this may surprise you - but that relates to the physical element, not the spiritual component.
This would be enough for the English, the Spanish and the Zionist, but it's NOT enough for Jews that actually care about the spiritual component.
Yes, there are many shomer torah umitzvos in Israel, but most are not, and the sovernighty and many of its laws are secular and anti Torah.
Therefore, we should not only mourn....we should perhaps institute another day of mourning for the current sovereignty, on, say, the 5th of Iyar?
Your blog mentioned
"The Talmud says that in the current era, when the Temple is destroyed, but we are not plagued with harsh decrees, the status of minor fasts depends on the will of the Jewish people: “If they want to fast, they do so; if they do not want, they do not fast.”
Could you please provide source
Thanks
"Tenth of Av"? Did you intend to write "Tenth of Tevet"?