Nov 24, 2023·edited Nov 25, 2023Liked by Natan Slifkin
I personally appreciate my street sweepers, garbage men, and plumbers (mostly Arab, as it happens)- and doctors- very much. Obviously not in the same way as I appreciate the soldiers, but still. I don't see how any decent person couldn't. That he uses that as an example is kind of shocking and very telling.
That's really the crux of it. Both religious and secular know that הכרת הטוב is at the core of one's spiritual and emotional well being. Yet this rabbi disparages the very idea of gratitude. The yeshiva world has a dilemma. If they express gratitude to the nonreligious then it is a sign of weakness because they don't want to feel indebted to anyone.
This is the only comment here one really needs to read to understand the origin of this approach (although I think it goes a lot farther than indebtedness). The rabbi never said not to have hakaras hatov or to be nosei b’ol - he just twisted himself into a pretzel to avoid saying you should, preferring to accuse his audience of never feeling that way anyway so why bother here (and failing to recognize that many, many people do even menial, paid jobs they dislike with good will and extra effort and beyond obviously deserve hakaras hatov for it. You hardly need a pulse to understand that). Why in the world would he do that? Of course that’s crazy. There’s just an iron wall blocking him from any sort of recognition of the army/state/general society and he’s so committed to that wall that to avoid it he walked right into a cesspool.
BTW, I can't speak for Brisk and this public event was definitely disgraceful, but if people want to understand this position better it would be a good idea to understand the full story:
If one adopts the Satmar Shita that the state of Israel is forbidden until a miraculous Messiah appears, and that it is such kefira that it is יהרג ואל יעבור, that him in a very difficult situation. Should he daven for soldiers to be מצליח? The war is forbidden and how can you ask God to help them do an avaira? What's the other option then? No war? Then Hammas comes. So the answers might be that Hammas is all Israel's fault, or something like that. So what do we do now? Some will have to say anyone staying in Israel is a direct recipient of the Zionists. Others reject that since they don't want to move out, so they'll say if Israel will surrender then the Arabs will leave us alone. But don't we feel bad for those being killed? Not more than anyone who dies in a car crash they say.
I think that is this Rabbis position.
The Satmar Rav was asked in 1973 what to daven for, he just said we should daven all Yidden should be safe, and let hashem decide how things will turn out.
Brisk doesn't seem to oppose the state from halacha, but only hashkafa, so they just try to disassociate as much as possible. Some will say it can't be that they will even be part our hishtadlus so they say Hashem is doing it.
For the rest of us, lets Daven for all those who risk their life to protect klal Yisrael, and tell the anti-Zionists to keep their opinions to themselves.
The Prime Minister of Israel was murdered by a student from KBY, the flagship hesder yeshivah, and this is the movement you currently identify with. So who are you to be criticizing anyone?
This is by no means anywhere near the mainstream Chareidi opinion. That needs to be CLEAR!! Further on what basis are claiming that this is potentially the view of hundreds of thousands?
Some of it is because they view the IDF as an organ of the state of Israel and identify it with a social engineering project designed to assimilate and reeducate them. But mainly because they don't generally say any prayers which were only invented in the past century. Which is why lots of shuls say tehillim after davening instead- including ones who donate money to Israeli causes https://www.charidy.com/agudahrelief, and why the list of cholim suddenly includes all sorts of exotic Israeli names. It's weird that you're so hung up on what charedim do and don't say in the privacy of their own shuls. https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-pushback/comment/44147138
I agree there is no reason and that should be corrected. But most of them daven for the soldiers or at least have them in mind. Stop washing that brush comparing a cold blooded achzar with a major faction of klal yisroel who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim
Tefilla, last time I checked, was a method of talking to Hashem, requesting from him various favors.
Some see davening as a political statement. They add, remove, and change according to their political ideas and beliefs. That may be fine and good, but it is just their perspective.
Those who do so, will see everything through that lens, and begin to judge others with that yardstick, thinking that other people's davening is also based on politics.
There are many, many frum Jews of all types that daven for the soldiers. (Those who dont care are very wrong).
But its YOU who refuses to give people the benefit of the doubt. Praying for soldiers means you care for your fellow Jews life and wellbeing and their success at eradicating the enemy even if you disagree sharply with their way of life.
Praying for the IDF, INCLUDES other connotations. The IDF means more than just the soldiers and protection of Am Yisroel. It also includes problematic views and opinions and actions (like drafting girls and being difficult to remain frum in the army, per your OWN daughters open admission) It IS understandable if one focuses on the welfare of the soldiers and their success at protecting and fighting....without focusing on the overall system which ALSO includes wrong things.
It's honestly not a difficult distinction and one that MANY level-headed people make easily.
Huh? Nobody davens for the IDF as an institution. People davven for soldiers. Even if not the official misheberach, I'm talking about any acknowledgement of saying tehillim or davening specifically for the soldiers. THere are many, many charedi shuls that refuse to do so.
Rabbi Slifkin, as other commenters have pointed out, almost all chareidi shuls are davening for acheinu and they CERTAINLY have the soldiers in mind. As somebody in the chareidi community, I guarantee it. I feel that excessive hatred is clouding your judgement immensely.
As a side I'm not sure if you've seen the video of Rav dov Landau saying tehillim with one of the hostages families.That speaks alot.(someone you singled out not long ago)
You associated 'not davening specifically for the IDF' with Rabbi Schreiber's position.
You were just shown a direct contradiction to that association, from the actual leader of the Charedim. I don't know how an honest person can stick to his position after this knockout.
First, Rav Landau is not representative of all charedim.
Second, you don't see all charedim saying tehillim with hostage families.
Third, the main point of R. Schreiber was about not davening/ showing hakaras hatov for the IDF. We don't see R. Landau davening for the IDF or expressing hakaras hatov.
Don't be daft. I was at a tehillim rally in my community, at which the single very Chareidi speaker emphasised again and again in detail correctly the need to daven for *soldiers*. We then went on to just say tehillim, and a generic prayer for times of war which didn't mention soldiers.
I didn't like it, it upset me, and I think this "chadash assur min hatorah gone mad" mindset is wrong. But do not take that as a lack of concern.
Once again slifkin's hatred of chareidim comes from a misnomer and a misrepresentation. This speech is really awful on every level. But this guy represents chareidim as much as he represents Jews at large. A Jew hater could say the very same things slifkin does about all of us and paint the entirety our nation with a horrific brush Rachmana litzlan. Or course to an insider this is false. This is as condemned by us as much as neturei karta. And it is false about chareidim as well. As vile accusation on slifkin's part, grouping me together with this guy.
Slifkin, thanks for calling this guy out. He should not be let to get away with this. But you need to stop the brush painting. It's complete motzei shem ra and poisoning minds against God's people, dare I say as much as the perpetrator himself.
Nope. Hakaras Hatov is something Chareidim are taught about from a very young age. Moshe Rabbeinu even had hakaras hatov for the river, which saved his life. The baalei mussar talk about this extensively. We all appreciate our garbage collectors and street cleaners very much. All the more so people who are risking their life.
Rabbi Amichai Friedman, a mizrachi (DL) rabbi and training rabbi of Nachal, was just suspended from the army for 30 days for saying all of Israel belongs to us, including Gaza. This opinion, you cannot deny (and unlike your risible claims re this lone Charedi rabbi) is genuinely held by many and probably the large majority of mizrachi Jews. And yet it is considered so offensive that saying it got the guy a thirty day suspension. Nu NS - by your logic, this passuls up the whole party, right?
Anyone rav or rosh yeshiva who heard of this insane speech and his community/talmidim ask about it will speak against it. There's no chiyuv for everybody to go around denouncing all the world's meshuganas. This is partly slifkin's mistake. And he, incidentally, only denouncing the chareidi extremist meshugoyim. Did he spends any posts denouncing neturei karta idiots? No! - and there's no reason to unless it's bright up as a serious contender. This achzar is not a serious contender.
"Anyone rav or rosh yeshiva who heard of this insane speech and his community/talmidim ask about it will speak against it." Total wishful thinking. There are PLENTY who would agree. Note that Yated did not condemn it and there was no apology, just a "clarification" that it was "misunderstood."
Shulman is correct. Whoever even heard of this Shreiber before the other day? No one. Meanwhile, we've seen plenty of what many call "extremist settler violence", creating a far bigger chilul hashem in their eyes than some silly words, and yet we've seen not a word of protest from NS.
I'm sure NS agrees that settler violence is wrong. NS comes from the litvish Orthodox community so of course Orthodox issues are closer to his heart.
I'm not convinced that settler violence is a much bigger chillul hashem. As a "Rabbi" Schreiber's whole job description is being a paragon of virtue and teaching God's will. So when someone like that teaches something that is morraly reprehensible as God's will it is a much greater chillul hashem than if someone on the street did something wrong.
Those who do not support the Nation when it is under deadly attack do not deserve its protection. Those who do not teach their sons a trade but rather to steal bread from the children of the diligent do not deserve support. If his piety protects Jews, then send him to Gaza armed only with seforim
just to be clear, that article had some important points, but the blame of "moving on as if nothing happened" is not a chareidi thing. it is a human thing. and we keep telling ourselves not to move on and rehash the scenarios in our heads and are mechazek ourselves that there are still hostages and people fighting besakana mamash. those with relatives on the front lines or captives have an easier time - of course, but the fact that we don't have relatives there doesn't make us worse human beings. let's not conflate these two things. otherwise, great article!
What sort of nonsense is it not to thank people that are paid? The doctor helping a seriously ill family member doesn’t get a thank you? Because he is paid?
Apart from everything else people who are thanked do a better job.
There was much more shocking parts of his speech that you have omitted.
He spoke with such אכזריות that I remarked to an equally horrified friend that I wouldn't be surprised if he is תובע אשתו שלא ברצונה. The man has serious אכזריות issues running through his blood.
There was a LOT of audience pushback, including someone who asked what about being נושא בעול. Credit to the audience. However, Bunim in his wickedness, retorted forcefully to all of them. Make no mistake, this savagery is EXACTLY what he truly believes.
I would back a campaign to remove all stste funding for his institutions or at the very least, sack him.
One can now get a better understanding as to how the most extreme, sadistic, psychopathic, narcissistic, violent members of the Yevsekzia in the USSR were yeshiva alumni.
“... ‘Our relationship to the injured?’ Who says that there needs to be a relationship? What’s your connection to them? Why do you need to have a relationship with them? ...”
Wow! this is so above appalling, I don't have the vocabulary to express the disgust and contempt that I feel for this miserable excuse for a human being. And to think that these contemptable words came from somebody that devoted his life to the teachings of Torah. To call him a hypocrite would be an insult to all the hypocrites out there.
Where I come from, the automatic response to Schreiber is, "what a scumbag!". If only enough pressure could be put on the government to defund anything he is associated with.
Thank you for this article. People like Schreiber contribute "dreck" and disrespect, and hatred within the Jewish world. They should be exposed for the haters and dividers that they are. Schreiber is a self confessed ingrate, he confessed it, not my assessment.
Each discipline has its own code words and its own way of talking. To an outsider, the words may sound like English, but they have a different meaning.
Imagine walking into a Beis Hamedrash of people who are learning פרק האשה רבה. You will hear people discussing horrific tragedies with equanimity. Teshuvos written about אבן העזר describe all kinds of gory stories, with the rapes of the Kishinev pogroms, the killings of the Second World War, and the dodgy stories of the shtetl. All are written in a Halachic way, with cold calculation. This doesn't mean that the Poskim do not feel for their fellow Jews, it is the language of the Beis Hamedrash.
Rabbi Schreiber seems to be slightly detached from society, and he spoke as though he was in Beis Hamedrash. He treats painful subjects academically, because that is what he was trained to do. I am not saying he is right, I am saying that there is a context to his words that must be understood.
And btw, the Charedi street strongly condemned this speech. The Otzar Hachachma forum had some strong words about it, from people who are full-fledged members of the mainstream.
"Rabbi Schreiber seems to be slightly detached from society, and he spoke as though he was in Beis Hamedrash. He treats painful subjects academically, because that is what he was trained to do."
That's exactly the problem. And therefore , he lacks da'as and normal human empathy. Brisk is probably part of the problem.
Well then, kindly explain to us what he did mean and what he actually does think about those who serve in the IDF or who were massacred or kidnapped on October 7, if it really is something different from what he actually said. (Someone else asked this above, but as you responded to him without answering his question, I’m repeating it here.)
Also: your comparison to unemotional discussions of heavy topics in the בית מדרש doesn’t hold water. His tone was, no doubt, objectionable. But what people find most repulsive is the content of what he said, not the callous way he said it.
I don't want to explain his point, because that would look like I agree with it. I don't. But human nature as it is, dealing with an opinion without judging it is something that only occurs in the Beis Hamedrash, not on the internet.
Where I come from, the automatic response to Schreiber is, "what a scumbag!". If only enough pressure could be put on the government to defund anything he is associated with.
Thank you for this article. People like Schreiber contribute "dreck" and disrespect, and hatred within the Jewish world. They should be exposed for the haters and dividers that they are. Schreiber is a self confessed ingrate, he confessed it, not my assessment.
As you pointed out definately not mainstream chareidi, hopefully my generation will be able to see this man for what he is, completely unhinged at best.
“If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as a Michaelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.”
I personally appreciate my street sweepers, garbage men, and plumbers (mostly Arab, as it happens)- and doctors- very much. Obviously not in the same way as I appreciate the soldiers, but still. I don't see how any decent person couldn't. That he uses that as an example is kind of shocking and very telling.
That's really the crux of it. Both religious and secular know that הכרת הטוב is at the core of one's spiritual and emotional well being. Yet this rabbi disparages the very idea of gratitude. The yeshiva world has a dilemma. If they express gratitude to the nonreligious then it is a sign of weakness because they don't want to feel indebted to anyone.
This is the only comment here one really needs to read to understand the origin of this approach (although I think it goes a lot farther than indebtedness). The rabbi never said not to have hakaras hatov or to be nosei b’ol - he just twisted himself into a pretzel to avoid saying you should, preferring to accuse his audience of never feeling that way anyway so why bother here (and failing to recognize that many, many people do even menial, paid jobs they dislike with good will and extra effort and beyond obviously deserve hakaras hatov for it. You hardly need a pulse to understand that). Why in the world would he do that? Of course that’s crazy. There’s just an iron wall blocking him from any sort of recognition of the army/state/general society and he’s so committed to that wall that to avoid it he walked right into a cesspool.
maskim! the danger of associating with core values that need to be defended beyond necessary flexibility and obvious nuances
This
Indeed.
Please note that even his audience, people that came to hear him, pushed back on him.
Proof that he isn't representing us.
Us an in Mir or us as in Brisk. BIG difference
I'm a Mir boy.
I can't speak for Brisk.
Well the fact that you're on this website shows that you're not a typical mirror boy you don't represent the typical Mirrer talmud
You obviously never went to the Mir.
I guess Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz is on this blog? He had the מי שברך לצה"ל said during any War.
BTW, I can't speak for Brisk and this public event was definitely disgraceful, but if people want to understand this position better it would be a good idea to understand the full story:
If one adopts the Satmar Shita that the state of Israel is forbidden until a miraculous Messiah appears, and that it is such kefira that it is יהרג ואל יעבור, that him in a very difficult situation. Should he daven for soldiers to be מצליח? The war is forbidden and how can you ask God to help them do an avaira? What's the other option then? No war? Then Hammas comes. So the answers might be that Hammas is all Israel's fault, or something like that. So what do we do now? Some will have to say anyone staying in Israel is a direct recipient of the Zionists. Others reject that since they don't want to move out, so they'll say if Israel will surrender then the Arabs will leave us alone. But don't we feel bad for those being killed? Not more than anyone who dies in a car crash they say.
I think that is this Rabbis position.
The Satmar Rav was asked in 1973 what to daven for, he just said we should daven all Yidden should be safe, and let hashem decide how things will turn out.
Brisk doesn't seem to oppose the state from halacha, but only hashkafa, so they just try to disassociate as much as possible. Some will say it can't be that they will even be part our hishtadlus so they say Hashem is doing it.
For the rest of us, lets Daven for all those who risk their life to protect klal Yisrael, and tell the anti-Zionists to keep their opinions to themselves.
I never understood what Shita meant? Do people use it in any other context besides discussing the Satmer Shita?
Shita just means an opinion. But as in English, opinionated can mean someone has extreme opinions.
Of course there’s this…
https://torah.org/torah-portion/ravfrand-5767-vayeitzei/
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/343546
The Prime Minister of Israel was murdered by a student from KBY, the flagship hesder yeshivah, and this is the movement you currently identify with. So who are you to be criticizing anyone?
Avishai Raviv?
Wow, if they gave a prize for fallacious argumentation, you definitely need to get one
and he was widely condemn by RZ Rabbanim. there is no shtika kehodaah like in this case.
I'm starting to wonder, is there some sort of med shortage in Israel due to the war?
Psychiatric meds, you mean??? The question is which mentally ill Rabbi are you referring to? There are two 🤣🤣🤣
This is by no means anywhere near the mainstream Chareidi opinion. That needs to be CLEAR!! Further on what basis are claiming that this is potentially the view of hundreds of thousands?
All those that refuse to specifically davven for soldiers.
How can you possibly group those to together!? This is clearly another extreme! He is insinuating you don't even daven at all
There are many, many shuls that refuse to specify davening for the IDF. What do you think their reason is?
Some of it is because they view the IDF as an organ of the state of Israel and identify it with a social engineering project designed to assimilate and reeducate them. But mainly because they don't generally say any prayers which were only invented in the past century. Which is why lots of shuls say tehillim after davening instead- including ones who donate money to Israeli causes https://www.charidy.com/agudahrelief, and why the list of cholim suddenly includes all sorts of exotic Israeli names. It's weird that you're so hung up on what charedim do and don't say in the privacy of their own shuls. https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-pushback/comment/44147138
Again there is a very big difference between not davening for the idf specifically and what this guy is saying.That is clear
So what is the other reason for not davening for the IDF specifically?
I'm not understanding why you are ignoring this distinction
I agree there is no reason and that should be corrected. But most of them daven for the soldiers or at least have them in mind. Stop washing that brush comparing a cold blooded achzar with a major faction of klal yisroel who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim
Tefilla, last time I checked, was a method of talking to Hashem, requesting from him various favors.
Some see davening as a political statement. They add, remove, and change according to their political ideas and beliefs. That may be fine and good, but it is just their perspective.
Those who do so, will see everything through that lens, and begin to judge others with that yardstick, thinking that other people's davening is also based on politics.
Are you related to Reb Zundel Eyshishoker (אולם המשפט)?
I identify with two of his descendants in law. One of whom recently passed away.
What's your issue with that?
Prayer is just fluffy spirituality, isn't it?
Slifkin,
There are many, many frum Jews of all types that daven for the soldiers. (Those who dont care are very wrong).
But its YOU who refuses to give people the benefit of the doubt. Praying for soldiers means you care for your fellow Jews life and wellbeing and their success at eradicating the enemy even if you disagree sharply with their way of life.
Praying for the IDF, INCLUDES other connotations. The IDF means more than just the soldiers and protection of Am Yisroel. It also includes problematic views and opinions and actions (like drafting girls and being difficult to remain frum in the army, per your OWN daughters open admission) It IS understandable if one focuses on the welfare of the soldiers and their success at protecting and fighting....without focusing on the overall system which ALSO includes wrong things.
It's honestly not a difficult distinction and one that MANY level-headed people make easily.
Huh? Nobody davens for the IDF as an institution. People davven for soldiers. Even if not the official misheberach, I'm talking about any acknowledgement of saying tehillim or davening specifically for the soldiers. THere are many, many charedi shuls that refuse to do so.
Rabbi Slifkin, as other commenters have pointed out, almost all chareidi shuls are davening for acheinu and they CERTAINLY have the soldiers in mind. As somebody in the chareidi community, I guarantee it. I feel that excessive hatred is clouding your judgement immensely.
Really? In Israel or the usa?
יש כבר העת שיחזור
בתשובה!
Why do you keep ignoring all the people who from actual experience in their own chareidi commities are testifying against your judgement?
As a side I'm not sure if you've seen the video of Rav dov Landau saying tehillim with one of the hostages families.That speaks alot.(someone you singled out not long ago)
Hostages, yes. But you don't see Rav Landau davening for the IDF.
You associated 'not davening specifically for the IDF' with Rabbi Schreiber's position.
You were just shown a direct contradiction to that association, from the actual leader of the Charedim. I don't know how an honest person can stick to his position after this knockout.
First, Rav Landau is not representative of all charedim.
Second, you don't see all charedim saying tehillim with hostage families.
Third, the main point of R. Schreiber was about not davening/ showing hakaras hatov for the IDF. We don't see R. Landau davening for the IDF or expressing hakaras hatov.
Point is Rav Landau clearly doesn't share this ravs view
Don't be daft. I was at a tehillim rally in my community, at which the single very Chareidi speaker emphasised again and again in detail correctly the need to daven for *soldiers*. We then went on to just say tehillim, and a generic prayer for times of war which didn't mention soldiers.
I didn't like it, it upset me, and I think this "chadash assur min hatorah gone mad" mindset is wrong. But do not take that as a lack of concern.
Thats a strawman argument.
A has nothing to do with B
Once again slifkin's hatred of chareidim comes from a misnomer and a misrepresentation. This speech is really awful on every level. But this guy represents chareidim as much as he represents Jews at large. A Jew hater could say the very same things slifkin does about all of us and paint the entirety our nation with a horrific brush Rachmana litzlan. Or course to an insider this is false. This is as condemned by us as much as neturei karta. And it is false about chareidim as well. As vile accusation on slifkin's part, grouping me together with this guy.
Slifkin, thanks for calling this guy out. He should not be let to get away with this. But you need to stop the brush painting. It's complete motzei shem ra and poisoning minds against God's people, dare I say as much as the perpetrator himself.
You're naive. There are many people who think the same way. Many in my city alone.
And how many charedi rabbonim have denounced R. Schreiber?
No I'm closely connected to many of these people. I've called them out plenty of times. But none of them are even close to this level of achzarius.
Most probably never heard of him
Nope. Hakaras Hatov is something Chareidim are taught about from a very young age. Moshe Rabbeinu even had hakaras hatov for the river, which saved his life. The baalei mussar talk about this extensively. We all appreciate our garbage collectors and street cleaners very much. All the more so people who are risking their life.
not what I hear people when they talk about the goyim who do the menial work
Good point.
Rabbi Amichai Friedman, a mizrachi (DL) rabbi and training rabbi of Nachal, was just suspended from the army for 30 days for saying all of Israel belongs to us, including Gaza. This opinion, you cannot deny (and unlike your risible claims re this lone Charedi rabbi) is genuinely held by many and probably the large majority of mizrachi Jews. And yet it is considered so offensive that saying it got the guy a thirty day suspension. Nu NS - by your logic, this passuls up the whole party, right?
We need Orthodox rabbis to step up. Everyone here should ask their rabbi to denounce Schreibers words.
Anyone rav or rosh yeshiva who heard of this insane speech and his community/talmidim ask about it will speak against it. There's no chiyuv for everybody to go around denouncing all the world's meshuganas. This is partly slifkin's mistake. And he, incidentally, only denouncing the chareidi extremist meshugoyim. Did he spends any posts denouncing neturei karta idiots? No! - and there's no reason to unless it's bright up as a serious contender. This achzar is not a serious contender.
"Anyone rav or rosh yeshiva who heard of this insane speech and his community/talmidim ask about it will speak against it." Total wishful thinking. There are PLENTY who would agree. Note that Yated did not condemn it and there was no apology, just a "clarification" that it was "misunderstood."
Ya that 'apology' was equally insane. Not the first time Yated was meek. They are not a rav or rosh yeshiva
It was still a stronger condemnation than Walder got!!! 🤣🤣.
If Rav Shteinman was still alive, I suspect a far stronger condemnation would have been forthcoming.
But he is a serious contender....
Shulman is correct. Whoever even heard of this Shreiber before the other day? No one. Meanwhile, we've seen plenty of what many call "extremist settler violence", creating a far bigger chilul hashem in their eyes than some silly words, and yet we've seen not a word of protest from NS.
I'm sure NS agrees that settler violence is wrong. NS comes from the litvish Orthodox community so of course Orthodox issues are closer to his heart.
I'm not convinced that settler violence is a much bigger chillul hashem. As a "Rabbi" Schreiber's whole job description is being a paragon of virtue and teaching God's will. So when someone like that teaches something that is morraly reprehensible as God's will it is a much greater chillul hashem than if someone on the street did something wrong.
Are you familiar with the non-US Israeli-born Chareidi community in EY?
Yes and it's not the mainstream view. This is an extreme.Im not sure why you are so intent on forcing as many chareidim as possible into this.
Because I like to generalise; just like everyone else does.
Those who do not support the Nation when it is under deadly attack do not deserve its protection. Those who do not teach their sons a trade but rather to steal bread from the children of the diligent do not deserve support. If his piety protects Jews, then send him to Gaza armed only with seforim
So according to this any far leftist that was either killed or captured deserved what they got?
The far leftist are not opposed to serving in the IDF.
But many are 'pro arab' so should they not also suffer the consequences of their ideligies?(just to be clear I do not believe this )
see צריך עיון https://iyun.org.il/sedersheni/between-separation-and-alienation/
hear Rav Asher Weiss https://minchasasher.com/shiur/%d7%95%d7%95%d7%90%d7%a8%d7%98-%d7%a2%d7%9c-%d7%94%d7%a4%d7%a8%d7%a9%d7%94/short-thought-for-parshas-vayetzei-5784/ reward for Jews killed for being Jewish and appreciation to soldiers
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
just to be clear, that article had some important points, but the blame of "moving on as if nothing happened" is not a chareidi thing. it is a human thing. and we keep telling ourselves not to move on and rehash the scenarios in our heads and are mechazek ourselves that there are still hostages and people fighting besakana mamash. those with relatives on the front lines or captives have an easier time - of course, but the fact that we don't have relatives there doesn't make us worse human beings. let's not conflate these two things. otherwise, great article!
Yes it is the mantra who want a permanent cease fire right now even as hostages remain hostages.
What sort of nonsense is it not to thank people that are paid? The doctor helping a seriously ill family member doesn’t get a thank you? Because he is paid?
Apart from everything else people who are thanked do a better job.
There was much more shocking parts of his speech that you have omitted.
He spoke with such אכזריות that I remarked to an equally horrified friend that I wouldn't be surprised if he is תובע אשתו שלא ברצונה. The man has serious אכזריות issues running through his blood.
There was a LOT of audience pushback, including someone who asked what about being נושא בעול. Credit to the audience. However, Bunim in his wickedness, retorted forcefully to all of them. Make no mistake, this savagery is EXACTLY what he truly believes.
I would back a campaign to remove all stste funding for his institutions or at the very least, sack him.
One can now get a better understanding as to how the most extreme, sadistic, psychopathic, narcissistic, violent members of the Yevsekzia in the USSR were yeshiva alumni.
“... ‘Our relationship to the injured?’ Who says that there needs to be a relationship? What’s your connection to them? Why do you need to have a relationship with them? ...”
Wow! this is so above appalling, I don't have the vocabulary to express the disgust and contempt that I feel for this miserable excuse for a human being. And to think that these contemptable words came from somebody that devoted his life to the teachings of Torah. To call him a hypocrite would be an insult to all the hypocrites out there.
As a 'yeshivish' American I have never heard of this rabbi before this week. who exactly does he represent?
Where I come from, the automatic response to Schreiber is, "what a scumbag!". If only enough pressure could be put on the government to defund anything he is associated with.
Thank you for this article. People like Schreiber contribute "dreck" and disrespect, and hatred within the Jewish world. They should be exposed for the haters and dividers that they are. Schreiber is a self confessed ingrate, he confessed it, not my assessment.
Where any of us come from this is true
Each discipline has its own code words and its own way of talking. To an outsider, the words may sound like English, but they have a different meaning.
Imagine walking into a Beis Hamedrash of people who are learning פרק האשה רבה. You will hear people discussing horrific tragedies with equanimity. Teshuvos written about אבן העזר describe all kinds of gory stories, with the rapes of the Kishinev pogroms, the killings of the Second World War, and the dodgy stories of the shtetl. All are written in a Halachic way, with cold calculation. This doesn't mean that the Poskim do not feel for their fellow Jews, it is the language of the Beis Hamedrash.
Rabbi Schreiber seems to be slightly detached from society, and he spoke as though he was in Beis Hamedrash. He treats painful subjects academically, because that is what he was trained to do. I am not saying he is right, I am saying that there is a context to his words that must be understood.
And btw, the Charedi street strongly condemned this speech. The Otzar Hachachma forum had some strong words about it, from people who are full-fledged members of the mainstream.
Disagree. He spoke awfully and not torah-dik at all. We should not be condoning this kind of rhetoric
So what is the meaning translated into the language we speak?
Of all the apolegetic junk, yours takes the biscuit. Not for nothing do the sages say 'chachomim, be careful with your words.'
You are 100% correct.
He was not careful with the חכמים הזהרו בדבריכם, and his words left the context in which they were said. He should have been more careful.
But that does not mean that he, or the people he represents, are that separated from those surrounding them.
He was very careful, he said what he said and meant it. But הזהרו בדבריכם is only said for חכמים so why should he be careful? :)
"Rabbi Schreiber seems to be slightly detached from society, and he spoke as though he was in Beis Hamedrash. He treats painful subjects academically, because that is what he was trained to do."
That's exactly the problem. And therefore , he lacks da'as and normal human empathy. Brisk is probably part of the problem.
Well then, kindly explain to us what he did mean and what he actually does think about those who serve in the IDF or who were massacred or kidnapped on October 7, if it really is something different from what he actually said. (Someone else asked this above, but as you responded to him without answering his question, I’m repeating it here.)
Also: your comparison to unemotional discussions of heavy topics in the בית מדרש doesn’t hold water. His tone was, no doubt, objectionable. But what people find most repulsive is the content of what he said, not the callous way he said it.
I don't want to explain his point, because that would look like I agree with it. I don't. But human nature as it is, dealing with an opinion without judging it is something that only occurs in the Beis Hamedrash, not on the internet.
hear Rav Asher Weiss on the great reward of those klled because they are Jewish and the appreciation of the soldiers https://minchasasher.com/shiur/%d7%95%d7%95%d7%90%d7%a8%d7%98-%d7%a2%d7%9c-%d7%94%d7%a4%d7%a8%d7%a9%d7%94/short-thought-for-parshas-vayetzei-5784/
Where I come from, the automatic response to Schreiber is, "what a scumbag!". If only enough pressure could be put on the government to defund anything he is associated with.
Thank you for this article. People like Schreiber contribute "dreck" and disrespect, and hatred within the Jewish world. They should be exposed for the haters and dividers that they are. Schreiber is a self confessed ingrate, he confessed it, not my assessment.
Calling "Rabbi" Schreiber a scumbag is an insult to all the scumbags out there.
As you pointed out definately not mainstream chareidi, hopefully my generation will be able to see this man for what he is, completely unhinged at best.
It seems to me that a lot of people in the Chareidi world stopped maturing when they left home at 15 to learn in Yeshiva.
.והמבין יבין
שבת שלום
Today should be the start of many more days when our dear brethren are released from captivity.
That is the psychological consequence of spending one's entirely life surrounded by like minded and carbon-copy people.
That as well.
I would venture to say that he’s also amongst those who have the pre-disposition to psychopathy.
"It seems to me that a lot of people in the Chareidi world stopped maturing when they left home at 15 to learn in Yeshiva. "
Rabbi Schreiber was more prodigious than that. I'm not sure how much mussar he learned while his genius was cultivated.
Martin Luther King Jr.
“If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as a Michaelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.”