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Joyous's avatar

The primacy of spiritual hishtadlus over physical hishtadlus is basic Judaism, I am sorry that you appear to be dismissing it.

לֹ֤א בִגְבוּרַ֣ת הַסּ֣וּס יֶחְפָּ֑ץ לֹֽא־בְשׁוֹקֵ֖י הָאִ֣ישׁ יִרְצֶֽה׃

רוֹצֶ֣ה יְ֭הוָה אֶת־יְרֵאָ֑יו אֶת־הַֽמְיַחֲלִ֥ים לְחַסְדּֽוֹ

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אֵֽין־הַ֭מֶּלֶךְ נוֹשָׁ֣ע בְּרׇב־חָ֑יִל גִּ֝בּ֗וֹר לֹא־יִנָּצֵ֥ל בְּרׇב־כֹּֽחַ׃

שֶׁ֣קֶר הַ֭סּוּס לִתְשׁוּעָ֑ה וּבְרֹ֥ב חֵ֝יל֗וֹ לֹ֣א יְמַלֵּֽט׃

הִנֵּ֤ה עֵ֣ין יְ֭הֹוָה אֶל־יְרֵאָ֑יו לַֽמְיַחֲלִ֥ים לְחַסְדּֽוֹ׃

לְהַצִּ֣יל מִמָּ֣וֶת נַפְשָׁ֑ם וּ֝לְחַיּוֹתָ֗ם בָּרָעָֽב׃

See here https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/does-torah-protect See this also https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-voice-from-the-frontlines

Somebody in the earlier post criticized you for minimizing the effect of Tefilah and learning, you weren't doing that over there but you are doing that here.

Rabbi Dessler is saying something very deep and mystical. If somebody (let's say an extremist "rationalist") doesn't believe in mysticism, of course he won't understand it. But he is not saying there is no need for hishtadlus, or that hishtadlus doesn't do anything on the physical plane. This is just a fundamental misinterpretation of his idea. https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/its-all-greek-to-me

"This is effectively claiming that young men who are learning in yeshivah are helping significantly more than those who serve in the IDF. And the implication is that ideally people should not join the army"

-No, the implication is that there may not be enough people in yeshiva, (not to mention people who are shomrei shabbos and the rest of the Torah). The zechus of such people is vital.

"The precise nature of God’s providence is complicated and disputed"

-maybe it is complicated on a deep level, but the idea that God assists us and that His assistance depends our zechuyos and tefillah is absolutely fundamental Judaism, not complicated or disputed, and which you appear to be dismissing in this post.

"The Gemara (Makkot 10a) speaks of how the Torah being studied in Jerusalem enabled the nation to succeed in war. But this just means that that those who are unable to fight - the old, the young, the infirm, the unfit "

-not true, it seems like you made that up. See Derech Emunah who understands from the Rambam that Talmidei Chachamim do not need to join the army.

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shulman's avatar

Reb Natan, I'm curious, after hearing our side from many different commentators, even if you disagree, do you understand where we're coming from at least?

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