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Regarding your section 1, you state "In fact, the drop-out rate in such circles is probably lower than the drop-out rate among charedim in yeshiva!". I'm fairly sure that what you are stating is your gut feeling. While personally, I agree with you, it doesn't mean we are correct. I wish some sociologist would implement a study to really find out whether dati-leumi or charedi are more likely to go off the derech (unless I'm wrong and there has been such a study).
Regarding your comments in section 2, about the "endless efforts and initiatives made by charedi rabbinic leaders", I find this troubling. I still well remember many years ago when I was walking on Jaffa Street and I saw a number of chassidish children (below bar mitzvah if I recall correctly) standing outside in front of a electronics store that had a TV screen for sale. These kids were mesmerized by the show that was on the screen. I had the feeling they had never seen a TV screen before.
If you live in Bnei Brak or Meah Shaarim and are positive that you will never leave your environment, then what I'm saying is not relevant. But for everyone else, sooner or later you will face a situation that you need to be prepared for. Whether it's a person not dressed modestly or an advertisement on a wall or whatever. I think a good analogy is that of a person who has never been exposed to a germ. The first time they do get exposed is when they, chalila, die. They had developed no antidote to fight the germ. If you have no tools (i.e., exposure or education) then you're very vulnerable to anything and everything.
If you want to understand the real reason why Chareidim will never, ever, ever join the IDF, watch the video at vayakhel.com.
I'm not trying to rationalize their feelings. I'm just pointing out their feelings. And the sooner we, as a society, understand the reason, the sooner we will be able to find a solution, such as abolishing the draft altogether, or creating a separate army run by the Chareidi gedolim.
OKAY we say we have a volunteer army , and the Generals all say they CAN'T work with that. They insist they need everyone to enlist and then they can pick the best for the top brigades. Same with the air force. If top talented people that could have been a great pilot and does not enlist, they have to pick from a lower level.
Now if Israel doesn't have a strong army, and Hashem doesn't accommodate the learners that say we can use a sefer to fight off our enemies (remember WWII how did that turn out)- what happens then??
This is what happens: the Arabs come through, rape your wife , your little daughters, like it was done in the Ukrainian pogroms. Then they viciously beat you, torture you, or kill you , throw your babies head first against the wall just for fun, .
IF you want to risk that, that is your choice, but myself and almost all of Israel, simply don't want to take that risk . We demand and want a strong army! Everyone has to go.!
Again, you can demand all you want. The charedim won't go unless its done their way. They want to have nothing to do with chilonim. So there will have to be a separate army run by the gedolim. Thats the only way I see the charedim serving. They will never serve in the current IDF. And if you want to understand their psyche, watch the video.
That is why they should leave Israel. They don't want to obey laws of the land ONLY if it is done like this and like that. What would happen should every group demanded laws be done a certain way, if not, they are not going to follow the law.
Then it is straight to jail or get out of the country and find a county that accommodates your system
Due to the abuse of the comment section by trolls repeatedly commenting under different identities, the comment section for this post will be limited to paid subscribers.
I was waiting for you to write an article just like this.
Thank you!
This is not a religious issue but a cult issue.
These people are caught in a cult from which they can't escape.
It is a psychological compared to the cult who forecast the end of the world then they kept on believing even when the world did not end.
Or like the Arabs who believe that the Jews are living on their land.
So, arguing with them or beating your breast at their behavior is not going help or change their minds.
Economic pressures will effect a change.
In the meantime, we will have to continue to suffer.
Regarding your section 1, you state "In fact, the drop-out rate in such circles is probably lower than the drop-out rate among charedim in yeshiva!". I'm fairly sure that what you are stating is your gut feeling. While personally, I agree with you, it doesn't mean we are correct. I wish some sociologist would implement a study to really find out whether dati-leumi or charedi are more likely to go off the derech (unless I'm wrong and there has been such a study).
Regarding your comments in section 2, about the "endless efforts and initiatives made by charedi rabbinic leaders", I find this troubling. I still well remember many years ago when I was walking on Jaffa Street and I saw a number of chassidish children (below bar mitzvah if I recall correctly) standing outside in front of a electronics store that had a TV screen for sale. These kids were mesmerized by the show that was on the screen. I had the feeling they had never seen a TV screen before.
If you live in Bnei Brak or Meah Shaarim and are positive that you will never leave your environment, then what I'm saying is not relevant. But for everyone else, sooner or later you will face a situation that you need to be prepared for. Whether it's a person not dressed modestly or an advertisement on a wall or whatever. I think a good analogy is that of a person who has never been exposed to a germ. The first time they do get exposed is when they, chalila, die. They had developed no antidote to fight the germ. If you have no tools (i.e., exposure or education) then you're very vulnerable to anything and everything.
Rabbi Slifkin
Thank you for writing about this. I dont know if it was just a coincidence, but several days ago,
I asked you if you could write about this issue.
In any event, thanks
Great piece
Is selfishness a kinder way to say cowardice?
If you want to understand the real reason why Chareidim will never, ever, ever join the IDF, watch the video at vayakhel.com.
I'm not trying to rationalize their feelings. I'm just pointing out their feelings. And the sooner we, as a society, understand the reason, the sooner we will be able to find a solution, such as abolishing the draft altogether, or creating a separate army run by the Chareidi gedolim.
OKAY we say we have a volunteer army , and the Generals all say they CAN'T work with that. They insist they need everyone to enlist and then they can pick the best for the top brigades. Same with the air force. If top talented people that could have been a great pilot and does not enlist, they have to pick from a lower level.
Now if Israel doesn't have a strong army, and Hashem doesn't accommodate the learners that say we can use a sefer to fight off our enemies (remember WWII how did that turn out)- what happens then??
This is what happens: the Arabs come through, rape your wife , your little daughters, like it was done in the Ukrainian pogroms. Then they viciously beat you, torture you, or kill you , throw your babies head first against the wall just for fun, .
IF you want to risk that, that is your choice, but myself and almost all of Israel, simply don't want to take that risk . We demand and want a strong army! Everyone has to go.!
Again, you can demand all you want. The charedim won't go unless its done their way. They want to have nothing to do with chilonim. So there will have to be a separate army run by the gedolim. Thats the only way I see the charedim serving. They will never serve in the current IDF. And if you want to understand their psyche, watch the video.
That is why they should leave Israel. They don't want to obey laws of the land ONLY if it is done like this and like that. What would happen should every group demanded laws be done a certain way, if not, they are not going to follow the law.
Then it is straight to jail or get out of the country and find a county that accommodates your system