177 Comments

Hey, no fair! You can't try and rebut Happynomics when Happy is banned.

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Again, you proclaimed the death of Kollel 3 years ago.

https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-grasshopper-delusion/comment/17180192

Covid, Meron, Walder, the internet, you've repeatedly made wild assertions about the imminent collapse of charedi society. Why on earth would anyone take your current prognostications seriously? It's not as though you have a track record which inspires any sort of confidence.

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"Help, help, the sky is falling!!"...

I'm lovin' it!

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(Banned)Jul 5, 2023·edited Jul 5, 2023

Is Malthus one of your ancestors? How about Paul Ehrlich (modern Malthusian author of The Population Bomb)?

"This is why you can’t rely on charedi society to naturally evolve."

Or, maybe, you are a direct lineal descendant of Vladimir Ilyich "“you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs." Ulyanov (aka Lenin). I just did my own research and he didn't actually say that. No matter, what you say is far, far worse, Natan "we have to destroy the charedim to save them" Slifkin.

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"This is why you can’t rely on charedi society to naturally evolve. By the time the problem is acknowledged, it’s too late to fix it. Active effort is needed."

You'll be pleased to know that I've been reliably informed that charedi society began undergoing exactly those changes over a decade ago!

https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/new-charedim?utm_source=%2Fsearch%2Finternet&utm_medium=reader2

" there has been a rise in charedi political leadership, e.g. charedi mayors. Such people realize that it is important to have residents who pay taxes!

Cultural changes - Internet, even "kosher internet," is the Etz HaDaas of the charedi world. It shows charedim the existence of alternate views on all issues.

Economical changes - The 2003 cuts in child benefits, and the recent recession, has taken a heavy toll on charedi society.

One of the biggest changes, which has occurred partly as a result of the previously mentioned changes, is that a group called "the new charedim" has emerged. They work for a living, and are proud of it. They are less isolated from the wider world. They are skeptical of the contemporary incarnation of "Daas Torah." They vote for a political party such as TOV instead of UTJ. (And, of course, they wear blue shirts.)"

See? Nothing to worry about!

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The Israeli economy is booming, many countries are talking of introducing four day working weeks and providing stipends to non-working people, and ChatGPT will soon make millions of Israeli jobs redundant. Think secretaries, accountants, writers, editors, teachers, even soldiers and officers. A drone with an artificial brain will go out to do the dirty work. If we don't destroy ourselves first, the West will become a leisure society where people will either pick jobs they like, party, or learn Torah.

Nothing to worry about.

Even now, how come people still have to work like slaves when one machine can do the work of a thousand or a million men? To pay for a myriad of artificial needs such as films, literature, art, Biblical museums :-), trips to resorts places locals regard as gehinom, etc. If the scales fell from people's eyes they would stop wasting their energies on work and enjoy life.

Regarding increased taxes, anything the chareidim "steal" is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall cost of running the country. Also, the real culprit of rising costs and taxes are billionaires who have a cunning strategy in the world's so-called "democracies."

It works like this:

Step 1. Pay for the political campaigns of all parties likely to win.

Step 2. Having bribed the democratically chosen parties, inform them that there will no cash for them in the next elections unless they pretend to create equality across classes without actually accomplishing anything. This scheme leaves the tycoons sitting on a mile-high pot of gold with minimum taxes. There's more money to be got from them than from the pocket of a yungerman.

Hey, I bet these guys are financing the anti-reform protests in Israel to keep people's minds off the real problem.

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The Coming Economic Crash Caused By Chareidi Purchase of Black Hats

The irresponsible spending habits of the chareidi community threaten to bring the economy to its knees. Mountains of research and statistics show that they spend an inordinate amount of money on black hats, draining funds from more productive economic sectors.

Rambam in Hilchos Deos writes that one should pursue an occupation that brings economic benefit to society (1:7). Black hat making clearly does not fulfill this requirement, and thus chareidim who buy these hats are violating the Rambam! The Gemara in Bava Basra (8b) warns against excessive consumption that depletes communal resources, yet the chareidim continue unabated in their hat purchasing.

A 2016 study found that the chareidi community in Israel spends over 500 million shekels annually on black hats (Herzog, 2016). Much of this money comes from government subsidies and charity intended for necessities. But the chareidim fritter this money away on what Jonathan Haidt would call "conspicuous consumption" to signal their group identity (The Happiness Hypothesis, 2006).

If this irresponsible behavior continues, it threatens to topple the entire Israeli economy. Black hat manufacturing employs few people and produces little tangible economic value. In contrast, that same 500 million shekels could create thousands of high-tech jobs and spur innovation if invested properly. But the chareidi "leech mentality," to borrow a phrase from Richard Dawkins (The Selfish Gene, 2006), prioritizes meaningless symbols over economic growth.

The solution is clear: the chareidi community must reduce their purchase of and spending on black hats in order to avoid an impending economic crash. They must learn to live more modestly and invest their funds in sectors that actually improve people's lives. Until that happens, the chareidi economy of hats will continue growing at the expense of a productive economy that benefits all of Israeli society.

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Q. What does "charedi economics" have in common with "the low Jewish birth rate", "the high world birth rate", "the coming ice age", "global warming", "teenage brainwashing", "the melting of the icebergs" "Star Wars" and "the coming nuclear holocaust"?

A. All problems we ware warned about that never amounted to anything.

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"....Active effort is needed.

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"We also can't wait for the מחללי שבת to transgress yet another week! That is far more dire than some supposed economic crisis."

- Happy (2012?-2023)

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wow! you really assume they'll want to change anything! sorta like people who say "if chazal were around these days they would change xyz"

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Jul 6, 2023·edited Jul 6, 2023

I can tell that this argument is not LeShem Shamayim. You aren’t being honest with me or yourself.

In my experience and the experience of many others these programs are extremely effective for a substantial segment of the population. I wrote earlier that these programs start out very basic and teach the fundamentals extremely well, so that they will understand the more advanced concepts to a greater extent. Most of them are of average intelligence. Again, What I meant with the word smart was that I posit that the, contrary to popular belief, I believe that the average haredi individual is smarter than the average secular Israeli due to the lack of distractions in their world.

The gist of my comment does not imply that it only benefits the very talented. Read again.

I merely said I sat in classes, and didn’t speak about others. Neither did I “audit” them. Why would you jump to that being what many do?

In terms of earning a living, if you would have read my comment, you’d see that I wrote that corporations are looking for quality labor, Anna at a slight discount, and after graduation the plan is that they will be employed. That’s the plan.

I’m still waiting for you to give me the dropout rate of secular colleges, the success rate of those who graduate to land their ideal job, and what less intelligent secular Israelis do to make a living? ?

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The correlation between education and income is just that, a correlation. The real causal relationship is that between delaying instant gratification and income, as seen in the working Chevra in Lakewood and 5 towns. Lots of financial success with minimal advanced education. Only clueless academics still beleive in education as the sole means to earn an income.

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Another soldier was killed when he and other chayalim stopped a suspected terrorist. He just nay have saved the lives of other Jews.

I know the Mi Shebairach Lachayalim is not said in chareidi yeshivot or chareidi shuls. But why not a Kapittal Tehillim asking Hashem to protect chayalim?!

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An IDF soldier was killed as the IDF was leaving Jenin. Yet the chareidi yeshivot still won’t say the Mi Shebairach for Hayalim, not even a Kapital Tehillim asking Hashem to protect our soldiers.

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"many people suggest that it will ultimately resolve itself." We may be very unhappy with the resolution.

Even if the crisis is in the future (and I don't agree that it is) the solution must be now. Tomorrow is too late.

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