It's funny that you seem to take such issue with the Charedi trolls. For the record, I think I dropped one comment on that post. HGL didn't post too many more than that either. The atheists, on the other hand, FLOODED the comments section. Howard Schranz alone left 50 comments. There was one possibly Charedi fellow, Inquire, who did leave a lot of comments (much less than the atheists though), but he was mostly trolling the atheists, not you.
It's your complex with Charedim which leads you to this paranoia.
As they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you are trolling chareidim 14 years in a row (I said 18 but Ash corrected me), then you can understand very well why they would respond in kind.
Insults are in the eye of the beholder. You personally often insult entire swathes of Jews, and don't even appear aware of it. Swear words, by contrast, (curse words, off color language) are objectively inappropriate, regardless of point of view. And yet I have only seen such filth from left wing commenters.
This comment thread is evidence of nothing, except insofar as it confirms the inability of the self-described left-wing commenters to debate coherently, succinctly, and intelligently. By contrast, there are no Charedim on this site. No inferences in their regard, right or wrong, can be drawn.
Of course not, by definition. The Charedim hated by NS dont speak English, certainly not well enough to participate on this site. They dont use the internet (and while we know that's not *entirely* true, it's true more often than not, and they're certainly not going online to hack in "Rationalist Judaism")
So you totally ignore the fact that you said something counter-truthful (known as lying in the vernacular) about the Charedi trolls, because this thread proves your point.
But they're so mean.................................................
Wow, this Balko guy is making me puke! Balko, I thought that loony bins monitor the resident's internet usage. I think I'm going to have to tell the nice man in the white coat what you're doing here.
No, MD stands for Mad Danger. I'm a vampire employed by loony bins to eat residents who are a danger to society. I actually saw you coming up on the menu. Yum, can't wait!
The funny thing is - since the transfer to this site, the comments section has been inundated with open apikorsim spewing their filth all over the place. No longer do they discuss Charedim and mean Torah. Now they straight out deny Hashem, His Torah and any place for Yiddishkeit.
Yet the blog owner has a problem with the 'Charedi zealots'.
I literally wrote in the post that I also have a problem with the apikorsim. Apparently the two of you do not actually read my posts properly. Now there's a surprise.
The reason why I also have a problem with you is precisely the lack of reading comprehension, distortion of what I write, false attribution of views to me, and sheer nastiness that you exhibit in comments like this.
You also evidently didn't read what I wrote about not trolling the comments section. Or you just don't have the derech eretz to comply.
But the Apikorsim are 'understandable' and the Charedi zealots are just that.
Nobody is trolling the comments section. You are putting out in the Reshus Harabbim wholesale krumkeit, and we have every moral right to set the record straight.
And nobody is on a path to delegitimize you. It is the way of thinking that is illegitimate. The idea that every shmendrik, who has not learned the Sugyos with any seriousness, is 'entitled' to an opinion about matters that touch the very existence of the world is just wrong. The anti-vaxx shmendrik is only a mashal for that. He merely deals with health without knowing the Sugya. This is about the very meaning and purpose of life.
Want to have and teach an opinion? No problem. Spend time learning the sources, not looking them up on Sefaria. Moreh Nevuchim is quite accessible, for someone who is looking for it. But not in the abridged versions, and not casually while sipping a drink and relaxing on the zero-gravity chair on your porch.
You're STILL making fun of the people who didn't take the covid vaccines? Wow. Talk about clueless. It's a shame because the rest of your comment was intelligent, and you had no need to throw that in there.
Slifkin claims to have a problem with anti-vaxxers, and he is right. Learn the Sugya, or shut up. PEACH propaganda, internet links, and sensational stories from your sister in law's neighbor's bungalow friend's goyte's niece are not the Sugya. Many years of biology, statistics, chemistry and medicine are merely the start.
Yet, his myopia does not allow him to see that he is the same when talking about Torah theology.
Where are YOU getting your information from? What "sugya" did you study? No Internet links I'm sure...and of course the government and the CDC would never mislead you. LOL. Moron.
I saw what you wrote, and it wasn't a criticism of apikorsim. You understand their bitterness, but think there are some benefits to being religious. That's not really having a problem with them, yoyo. You sure never have a problem with their attacks on God and Judaism in the comments. You're so fake, it's sad.
"The idea that research on other religions will shed light on Judaism is repugnant."
Does not rob the idea of validity, though. Things or ideas repugnant can still have validity. Grade: 51
"Hashem told us to keep Torah."
Non falsifiable. Not provable or disprovable. "Snake oil" persuasion technique. Manipulative. Weak.
Grade: 50
"Hashem runs the world."
Same issue.
"He helps those who keep His Mitzvos."
Same issue.
"Following Buddhism gives you nothing but a headache."
Congratulations! Falsifiable! Is this true? Google says nothing about it. Likely false. Probably empty rhetoric.
My suggestion: discard this last idea. Makes your arguments look plain wrong. Keep the stuff no one can disprove. Makes your arguments look strong. They're not - but it makes them look that way.
No wonder the non falsifiable assertions are ten a penny in every religion's apologetics.!
That's an extreme black and white way of thinking about it.
A large swath of the Torah is sichli - rational - something which all humanity is attuned to. Their development of those ethical values can have worth too.
See R Moshe Feinstien in Derash Moshe, parshas Va'yetze regarding the dream where God appears to Yaakov and tells him to leave the house of Lavan. Yaakov subsequently convinces Rochel and Leah to leave their fathers house for other reasons and not simply because God commanded him to do so. Similiarly Rochel and Leah despite knowing about this command, acquiese for material reasons.
R Moshe understands that one should always look for benefits in specific religious observances and not just act out of blind faith as a forced slave. Therefore, one should certainly look for evidence that being religious as opposed to an atheist is beneficial.
Yes! But not to understand the details of Judaism, but as R Slifkin said, to use the studies that point out general benefits of believing in a creator and an ultimate purpose in the universe.
The Raelian Movement does not prove a thing about Judaism.
Because eating Matza will make your life better, you will be more prosperous and have more opportunities to do Mitzvos.
Whereas performing human cloning as part of the Raelian worship will achieve diddly squat.
So proof that the Aghori faith practice of eating rotten meat may be connected to food poisoning does not tell you that eating in the Sukkah causes food poisoning.
For those who are of a herd mentality, or who do not tend to delve into these matters and have had no adverse feelings toward Judaism, no. But there are others who because of negative experiences with Judaism, or those who are deep thinkers who are courageous enough to think out of the box it is vital.
Wow, wrap your head around that! If you don't need scientific studies to be religious, it's because you have a herd mentality, don't delve into things, and lack courage.
Yeah, kofrim don't lack anything in the humility department.
"I should also clarify that any degree of religious observance can provide some degree of benefit. But in order to gain the full benefit, it doesn’t help to just keep whichever aspects of religion are appealing. The full benefits only occur as a result of commitment to a way of life. And that means the full package." Is that borne out by the studies you refer to, or is that coming from your personal experience in Orthodox Judaism?
" But if you’re born Jewish, then [b]naturally Judaism would be the religion that is the best fit[/b], and which would be best positioned to provide the benefits."
Why do you believe that "the religion that is the best fit" is genetically determined? Or (even stranger) determined by the genetics of one's mother, who might be a convert?
I'll check the rest of the comments -- someone else should have caught that problem in logic.
I suppose if you’re born into a Muslim family , then naturally Islam would be the religion that is the best fit, and which would be best positioned to provide the benefits. The reason may be the difficult of getting the benefits from a not as familiar religion. Or perhaps the person is already part of the particular community. Or it is possible the real intent is perpetuation of the religion you are born into.
And the children we do have get good educations that give them marketable skills so that they can contribute to society, support their families, and not leave large carbon footprints contributing to global warming and species extinction.
I’m not familiar with any research on the topic but if you know of any, I can be persuaded by evidence, unlike most Charedi.
However the Chabadnicks/Lubavitchers, I know plenty of them that use electricity and gas everyday. I so I assume that (other than Saturday), they use as much energy as seculars do. The difference is that the average Haredim family is like what, 10 kids, to the average secular 1.5?
You outsource your discernment to the point you literally have no seichel. That makes you retarded.
It doesn't take research. Logically, if Charedim are as poor as Natan claims, then they consume far less resources than even the middle class, period. It's not the number of children, but the resources consumed per child. They live in smaller homes, fly less, travel less, have fewer cars, etc. Retard.
Now you know why no one takes you seriously, not even Natan.
Funny how the most “religious” among y’all are the least cordial and most disrespectful. First you degrade people with ASD, and now you degrade people with intellectual disabilities. I think someone who pretends to know things he is obviously unqualified to speak with authority about has little intelligence, and that’s exactly what you’re doing if when you spout conspiracy theories. And from personal experience, I know lots of Charedim that have plenty of cash and travel all the time. Israel is a modern state, so your poor Charedim aren’t cooking their meals for their enormous broods using cow patties for fuel. All of the Lubavitcher families I know, their kids of driving age have vehicles.
How about stop with your immature insults (autist, retard) and grow the fuck up.
The very categorization of Judaism as a mere religion conforming to the worldwide phenomenon of spirituality is a sign of a very secularized mentality. Why weigh the pros and cons of belief? If one believes the cons are irrelevant. If one does not believe the benefits are also irrelevant as it is irrational to live a lie.
"Religious beliefs in national superiority or the rights to certain resources can lead to deadly conflict." Not only can, but has done so. So what do you do when a religion which provides the benefits also demands superiority/choseness ?
"Judaism itself maintains that there are religious paths for non-Jews that are praiseworthy." For non Jews, but not Jews. Explain why a path that is good is not open for Jews to pursue.
Thank you R' Slifkin for signaling that you intend to take back the comments section.
I suggest you also add a link to the Irrational Moxodism blog, for the benefit of readers who are interested in viewing and in posting the types of comments that will no longer be allowed here.
I welcome as well your banning trolls of all stripes, whether they be anti-Slifkin, anti-Torah, anti-Orthodox Judaism, anti-vax, or anti-reasonable-argumentation in general.
You just showed that you equate anti-orthodox Judaism, anti-Torah, and anti-covid vaccines. Which means, many millions of people think you're a fool. So should you be banned from commenting because you hold such foolish and irresponsible beliefs? Or do you think its your opinion and you have a right to it, and you should be allowed to believe whatever you believe?
I asked about your beliefs. And you think you should have the right to believe whatever you want, no matter how foolish other people might think you for it. Got it. So now you're both naïve AND a hypocrite. Buddy, you gotta start rethinking your positions in life. This is no way to win friends and influence people.
"And you think you should have the right to believe whatever you want, no matter how foolish other people might think you for it." I don't remember your positions. Are you anti-Orthodoxy? The vast majority of the world's population finds Orthodox Judaism to be false.
The vast majority of the world has no opinion, whatsoever, on orthodox Judaism, and does not know there even exists such a concept.
In any event, my point was to David, not David Ohsie. (I presume you are different people, its poor form to post twice under sock puppet names.) He believes in covid vaccines, which millions of people find foolish, yet somehow thinks *he* is entitled to his opinion, but no one else is. Both naive and hypocritical at the same time.
That is because they there are a million religions out there and their opinion is that is a waste of time to look at them all. But it matter not. The vast majority of people who do know find Orthodox Judaism to be false. In fact a majority of Jews find Orthodox Judaism to be false.
Covid vaccines are OTOH thought to be beneficial by the vast majority of the population. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion even if it is incorrect.
Anyone who wants to read the good rabbi and perhaps some constructive remarks given in a manner that shows a desire to learn instead of a desire to tear down
You are totally disrespectful of the good rabbi and have nothing remotely constructive to say. You are vulgar and an angry little man with no life. You’re a shonda.
If you’re an example of how Judaism develops moral character, you can keep it. I think even those here on your side are sick of your ad hominem attacks on people. You only use them because you don’t know how to argue your point and have no facts on your side. You’re an intellectual midget with no friends and no life. And not worth responding to anymore.
Are you aware of the Rambam's high regard for Aristotle and other thinkers who did not accept Noachide law as coming from God nor as binding on them (in the unlikely event that they ever even heard of the concept).
Thanks for reminding me; that had slipped my mind. Either that needs to be added to the list of stirahs between MT & MN, or an answer needs to be looked for. Do you (or anyone) remember the MN's context? Does it allow that Rambam is only commending Aristotle's wisdom in the spirit of קבל את האמת ממי שאמרו but not the person?
Regarding the unlikeliness of all gentiles having heard of Moshe, that is indeed an issue especially for those in the Americas (and even closer) etc. In the case of Aristotle, there are sources that indicate that he was aware of him, or more specifically, of the Jews and their wisdom, from which we can extrapolate that, as a curious person, he investigated who their teacher was.
Rambam thinks that the afterlife is dependent on intellectual attainment, not performance of specific mitzvos. Those are only a helper to understanding. He channels Aristotle in MT as well but without attribution. There is no contradiction here.
As always, you try to take both sides of every position: "I'm going with Judaism, but all religion is good." Religion is good, but it can also be bad." "Atheism is bad, but so are charedim" Even with comments: "Everyone should have an opinion, but I don't want trolls."
Has it really never occurred to you that EVERYONE thinks they're practicing the golden mean? I mean this seriously, because I am genuinely curious: Do you really think you're smarter than the rest of the world? You would never actually say that, of course, but do you, in your heart of hearts, actually think you've managed to hit that sweet spot that NO ONE ELSE has ever managed to find? I have no other way to understand why you continue to pump out these posts with essentially the same commonplace theme, apparently thinking you're delivering some kind of unique wisdom or view. From an armchair shrink perspective, I'd love to understand what you're thinking.
It's funny that you seem to take such issue with the Charedi trolls. For the record, I think I dropped one comment on that post. HGL didn't post too many more than that either. The atheists, on the other hand, FLOODED the comments section. Howard Schranz alone left 50 comments. There was one possibly Charedi fellow, Inquire, who did leave a lot of comments (much less than the atheists though), but he was mostly trolling the atheists, not you.
It's your complex with Charedim which leads you to this paranoia.
Just take a look at this comment thread.
Right, because now you came out and attacked Charedim. Don't you notice the correlation?
As they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you are trolling chareidim 14 years in a row (I said 18 but Ash corrected me), then you can understand very well why they would respond in kind.
I couldn't care less about their insults but it spoils the reading experience for everyone else.
Insults are in the eye of the beholder. You personally often insult entire swathes of Jews, and don't even appear aware of it. Swear words, by contrast, (curse words, off color language) are objectively inappropriate, regardless of point of view. And yet I have only seen such filth from left wing commenters.
Stop being so mean! You're hurting his feelings! That's not derech eretz!!
Balko? That's a new name around here. If I had to guess, you're a reincarnation of Inquire. The style is exactly the same.
Clearly cookie. Inquire was the Wallerstein cultie.
Try again. LOL
Must be cookie the anti vax nut job. He was getting eaten so he changed his name.
This comment thread is evidence of nothing, except insofar as it confirms the inability of the self-described left-wing commenters to debate coherently, succinctly, and intelligently. By contrast, there are no Charedim on this site. No inferences in their regard, right or wrong, can be drawn.
Huh?
What didn't you understand?
There are no Charedi commenters on this site??
Of course not, by definition. The Charedim hated by NS dont speak English, certainly not well enough to participate on this site. They dont use the internet (and while we know that's not *entirely* true, it's true more often than not, and they're certainly not going online to hack in "Rationalist Judaism")
As Dan Rather said soon before he was fired, it was "fake but accurate."
So you totally ignore the fact that you said something counter-truthful (known as lying in the vernacular) about the Charedi trolls, because this thread proves your point.
But they're so mean.................................................
I said that the last post was trolled by a combination of chatedi zealots and atheist zealots. It was, just as this one is.
We were also wondering where all your friends went:
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/where-are-natans-friends
What exactly does "trolling" mean?
Chatedi zealots? What's that? Ardent adherents of ChatGPTism?
Maybe you mean like this, zealots on both sides are wrong, but the Chareidi ones are (the most) annoying.
Wow, this Balko guy is making me puke! Balko, I thought that loony bins monitor the resident's internet usage. I think I'm going to have to tell the nice man in the white coat what you're doing here.
Yeah, you sound like an MD these days. Take more shots up your butt. Hope you don't die suddenly. LOL
No, MD stands for Mad Danger. I'm a vampire employed by loony bins to eat residents who are a danger to society. I actually saw you coming up on the menu. Yum, can't wait!
The funny thing is - since the transfer to this site, the comments section has been inundated with open apikorsim spewing their filth all over the place. No longer do they discuss Charedim and mean Torah. Now they straight out deny Hashem, His Torah and any place for Yiddishkeit.
Yet the blog owner has a problem with the 'Charedi zealots'.
No, he's creeped out about the 'Chatedi zealots'. I would be too.
Eh. The commentariat turns over with time. There are a few new rabid pro-Chareidi commenters around now, also.
Eh? Meh.
Slifkin has no problem with the apikorsim. He likes their comments and never gives them his snarkiness. They say what he doesn't have the guts to say.
I literally wrote in the post that I also have a problem with the apikorsim. Apparently the two of you do not actually read my posts properly. Now there's a surprise.
The reason why I also have a problem with you is precisely the lack of reading comprehension, distortion of what I write, false attribution of views to me, and sheer nastiness that you exhibit in comments like this.
You also evidently didn't read what I wrote about not trolling the comments section. Or you just don't have the derech eretz to comply.
But the Apikorsim are 'understandable' and the Charedi zealots are just that.
Nobody is trolling the comments section. You are putting out in the Reshus Harabbim wholesale krumkeit, and we have every moral right to set the record straight.
And nobody is on a path to delegitimize you. It is the way of thinking that is illegitimate. The idea that every shmendrik, who has not learned the Sugyos with any seriousness, is 'entitled' to an opinion about matters that touch the very existence of the world is just wrong. The anti-vaxx shmendrik is only a mashal for that. He merely deals with health without knowing the Sugya. This is about the very meaning and purpose of life.
Want to have and teach an opinion? No problem. Spend time learning the sources, not looking them up on Sefaria. Moreh Nevuchim is quite accessible, for someone who is looking for it. But not in the abridged versions, and not casually while sipping a drink and relaxing on the zero-gravity chair on your porch.
The anti-vaxx shmendrik?
You're STILL making fun of the people who didn't take the covid vaccines? Wow. Talk about clueless. It's a shame because the rest of your comment was intelligent, and you had no need to throw that in there.
Slifkin claims to have a problem with anti-vaxxers, and he is right. Learn the Sugya, or shut up. PEACH propaganda, internet links, and sensational stories from your sister in law's neighbor's bungalow friend's goyte's niece are not the Sugya. Many years of biology, statistics, chemistry and medicine are merely the start.
Yet, his myopia does not allow him to see that he is the same when talking about Torah theology.
This is ironic. Shouldn't that also be a requirement before discussing yiddishkeit? Or do we just go blindly with the mesora?
Where are YOU getting your information from? What "sugya" did you study? No Internet links I'm sure...and of course the government and the CDC would never mislead you. LOL. Moron.
You don't come across as intelligent and informed, and your abusiveness doesn't intimidate me into submission. Sorry!
Poor you, spends his life viciously attacking people and then cries that people are "nasty" to him.
I saw what you wrote, and it wasn't a criticism of apikorsim. You understand their bitterness, but think there are some benefits to being religious. That's not really having a problem with them, yoyo. You sure never have a problem with their attacks on God and Judaism in the comments. You're so fake, it's sad.
The idea that research on other religions will shed light on Judaism is repugnant.
Hashem told us to keep Torah, idol worshippers invented Christianity. And they are somehow similar? It is like comparing cyanide to penicillin.
Hashem runs the world, and He helps those who keep His Mitzvos. Following Buddhism gives you nothing but a headache. How could they be similar at all?
"The idea that research on other religions will shed light on Judaism is repugnant."
Does not rob the idea of validity, though. Things or ideas repugnant can still have validity. Grade: 51
"Hashem told us to keep Torah."
Non falsifiable. Not provable or disprovable. "Snake oil" persuasion technique. Manipulative. Weak.
Grade: 50
"Hashem runs the world."
Same issue.
"He helps those who keep His Mitzvos."
Same issue.
"Following Buddhism gives you nothing but a headache."
Congratulations! Falsifiable! Is this true? Google says nothing about it. Likely false. Probably empty rhetoric.
My suggestion: discard this last idea. Makes your arguments look plain wrong. Keep the stuff no one can disprove. Makes your arguments look strong. They're not - but it makes them look that way.
No wonder the non falsifiable assertions are ten a penny in every religion's apologetics.!
That's an extreme black and white way of thinking about it.
A large swath of the Torah is sichli - rational - something which all humanity is attuned to. Their development of those ethical values can have worth too.
See R Moshe Feinstien in Derash Moshe, parshas Va'yetze regarding the dream where God appears to Yaakov and tells him to leave the house of Lavan. Yaakov subsequently convinces Rochel and Leah to leave their fathers house for other reasons and not simply because God commanded him to do so. Similiarly Rochel and Leah despite knowing about this command, acquiese for material reasons.
R Moshe understands that one should always look for benefits in specific religious observances and not just act out of blind faith as a forced slave. Therefore, one should certainly look for evidence that being religious as opposed to an atheist is beneficial.
Sounds about right.
And therefore we should compare Torah to Jingoism? Use Pana Wave to understand Judaism?
Yes! But not to understand the details of Judaism, but as R Slifkin said, to use the studies that point out general benefits of believing in a creator and an ultimate purpose in the universe.
The Raelian Movement does not prove a thing about Judaism.
Because eating Matza will make your life better, you will be more prosperous and have more opportunities to do Mitzvos.
Whereas performing human cloning as part of the Raelian worship will achieve diddly squat.
So proof that the Aghori faith practice of eating rotten meat may be connected to food poisoning does not tell you that eating in the Sukkah causes food poisoning.
Capice?
So I need scientific studies to prove that it's a good idea to be religious?
Yeah, that's Slifkin's kind of kefira, all right.
For those who are of a herd mentality, or who do not tend to delve into these matters and have had no adverse feelings toward Judaism, no. But there are others who because of negative experiences with Judaism, or those who are deep thinkers who are courageous enough to think out of the box it is vital.
It is not kefirah it is actually a mitzvah.
Wow, wrap your head around that! If you don't need scientific studies to be religious, it's because you have a herd mentality, don't delve into things, and lack courage.
Yeah, kofrim don't lack anything in the humility department.
Looking forward to this.
"I should also clarify that any degree of religious observance can provide some degree of benefit. But in order to gain the full benefit, it doesn’t help to just keep whichever aspects of religion are appealing. The full benefits only occur as a result of commitment to a way of life. And that means the full package." Is that borne out by the studies you refer to, or is that coming from your personal experience in Orthodox Judaism?
" But if you’re born Jewish, then [b]naturally Judaism would be the religion that is the best fit[/b], and which would be best positioned to provide the benefits."
Why do you believe that "the religion that is the best fit" is genetically determined? Or (even stranger) determined by the genetics of one's mother, who might be a convert?
I'll check the rest of the comments -- someone else should have caught that problem in logic.
I think that he is speaking culturally, not genetically.
I suppose if you’re born into a Muslim family , then naturally Islam would be the religion that is the best fit, and which would be best positioned to provide the benefits. The reason may be the difficult of getting the benefits from a not as familiar religion. Or perhaps the person is already part of the particular community. Or it is possible the real intent is perpetuation of the religion you are born into.
The limits of being a kofer:
You get to make up your own rules and morals.
But that only gets you so far and leaves a deep spiritual emptiness.
Then you die and face the God you spent your whole life fighting and denying.
You also really have nothing to pass on to your children, and your children will think they are superior to you.
Keep making fun, while you can.
That's if you ever get around to having children. More and more secular people these days don't.
And the children we do have get good educations that give them marketable skills so that they can contribute to society, support their families, and not leave large carbon footprints contributing to global warming and species extinction.
Actually, the average non-religious person leaves a much larger carbon footprint than the average charedi person.
Wow, it looks like you're turning over a new leaf! Can I offer you a guest post on Irrationalist Modoxism?
Natan says something favorable about the Charedim. But only because he considers "carbon footprint" important.
I’m not familiar with any research on the topic but if you know of any, I can be persuaded by evidence, unlike most Charedi.
However the Chabadnicks/Lubavitchers, I know plenty of them that use electricity and gas everyday. I so I assume that (other than Saturday), they use as much energy as seculars do. The difference is that the average Haredim family is like what, 10 kids, to the average secular 1.5?
You outsource your discernment to the point you literally have no seichel. That makes you retarded.
It doesn't take research. Logically, if Charedim are as poor as Natan claims, then they consume far less resources than even the middle class, period. It's not the number of children, but the resources consumed per child. They live in smaller homes, fly less, travel less, have fewer cars, etc. Retard.
Now you know why no one takes you seriously, not even Natan.
Funny how the most “religious” among y’all are the least cordial and most disrespectful. First you degrade people with ASD, and now you degrade people with intellectual disabilities. I think someone who pretends to know things he is obviously unqualified to speak with authority about has little intelligence, and that’s exactly what you’re doing if when you spout conspiracy theories. And from personal experience, I know lots of Charedim that have plenty of cash and travel all the time. Israel is a modern state, so your poor Charedim aren’t cooking their meals for their enormous broods using cow patties for fuel. All of the Lubavitcher families I know, their kids of driving age have vehicles.
How about stop with your immature insults (autist, retard) and grow the fuck up.
The very categorization of Judaism as a mere religion conforming to the worldwide phenomenon of spirituality is a sign of a very secularized mentality. Why weigh the pros and cons of belief? If one believes the cons are irrelevant. If one does not believe the benefits are also irrelevant as it is irrational to live a lie.
I was asked last night about ideas on the פיוטים that we say in תפילת טל.
I came across this from Reb Moshe Yehudah Rosenwasser. His works on explaining פיוטים are legendary.
https://www.machonso.org/hamaayan/?gilayon=61&id=1804
Enjoy.
"Religious beliefs in national superiority or the rights to certain resources can lead to deadly conflict." Not only can, but has done so. So what do you do when a religion which provides the benefits also demands superiority/choseness ?
"I’m not aware of any scientific studies regarding the benefits of Judaism specifically." Check out Permission to Receive by RK
"Judaism itself maintains that there are religious paths for non-Jews that are praiseworthy." For non Jews, but not Jews. Explain why a path that is good is not open for Jews to pursue.
Thank you R' Slifkin for signaling that you intend to take back the comments section.
I suggest you also add a link to the Irrational Moxodism blog, for the benefit of readers who are interested in viewing and in posting the types of comments that will no longer be allowed here.
I welcome as well your banning trolls of all stripes, whether they be anti-Slifkin, anti-Torah, anti-Orthodox Judaism, anti-vax, or anti-reasonable-argumentation in general.
You just showed that you equate anti-orthodox Judaism, anti-Torah, and anti-covid vaccines. Which means, many millions of people think you're a fool. So should you be banned from commenting because you hold such foolish and irresponsible beliefs? Or do you think its your opinion and you have a right to it, and you should be allowed to believe whatever you believe?
Right to believe, yes.
Right to troll, no.
I asked about your beliefs. And you think you should have the right to believe whatever you want, no matter how foolish other people might think you for it. Got it. So now you're both naïve AND a hypocrite. Buddy, you gotta start rethinking your positions in life. This is no way to win friends and influence people.
"And you think you should have the right to believe whatever you want, no matter how foolish other people might think you for it." I don't remember your positions. Are you anti-Orthodoxy? The vast majority of the world's population finds Orthodox Judaism to be false.
The vast majority of the world has no opinion, whatsoever, on orthodox Judaism, and does not know there even exists such a concept.
In any event, my point was to David, not David Ohsie. (I presume you are different people, its poor form to post twice under sock puppet names.) He believes in covid vaccines, which millions of people find foolish, yet somehow thinks *he* is entitled to his opinion, but no one else is. Both naive and hypocritical at the same time.
That is because they there are a million religions out there and their opinion is that is a waste of time to look at them all. But it matter not. The vast majority of people who do know find Orthodox Judaism to be false. In fact a majority of Jews find Orthodox Judaism to be false.
Covid vaccines are OTOH thought to be beneficial by the vast majority of the population. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion even if it is incorrect.
Sorry, your opinion lost the poll by a landslide
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/on-being-attacked-by-sharks
Yes.
And with all those disaffected and disenfranchised voters, the Moxodism blog will just explode.
And who knows, perhaps with the disappearance of the trolls, this site as well might gain a regular reader or two?
Who does that leave besides you?
Anyone who wants to read the good rabbi and perhaps some constructive remarks given in a manner that shows a desire to learn instead of a desire to tear down
LOL! You totally excluded yourself.
LOL! You're nuts.
LOL! Says you!
Thanks! Keep it up! You're free entertainment for all of us!
You are totally disrespectful of the good rabbi and have nothing remotely constructive to say. You are vulgar and an angry little man with no life. You’re a shonda.
LOL. Gaslighting atheist loser.
If you’re an example of how Judaism develops moral character, you can keep it. I think even those here on your side are sick of your ad hominem attacks on people. You only use them because you don’t know how to argue your point and have no facts on your side. You’re an intellectual midget with no friends and no life. And not worth responding to anymore.
"Judaism itself maintains that there are religious paths for non-Jews that are praiseworthy."
With only 20,000 plus Noachides, out of ~<8 billion in the world, there's no significant number to study, because as Rambam Hil. Melachim 8:11 says,
כָּל הַמְקַבֵּל שֶׁבַע מִצְוֹת וְנִזְהָר לַעֲשׂוֹתָן הֲרֵי זֶה מֵחֲסִידֵי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם. וְיֵשׁ לוֹ חֵלֶק לָעוֹלָם הַבָּא. וְהוּא שֶׁיְּקַבֵּל אוֹתָן וְיַעֲשֶׂה אוֹתָן מִפְּנֵי שֶׁצִּוָּה בָּהֶן הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא בַּתּוֹרָה וְהוֹדִיעָנוּ עַל יְדֵי משֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ שֶׁבְּנֵי נֹחַ מִקֹּדֶם נִצְטַוּוּ בָּהֶן. אֲבָל אִם עֲשָׂאָן מִפְּנֵי הֶכְרֵעַ הַדַּעַת אֵין זֶה גֵּר תּוֹשָׁב וְאֵינוֹ מֵחֲסִידֵי אֻמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם וְלֹא מֵחַכְמֵיהֶם:
And the Girsa אֶלָּא מֵחַכְמֵיהֶם doesn't ameliorate matters much.
I would also change your "there are religious paths" to "there is a religious path".
Are you aware of the Rambam's high regard for Aristotle and other thinkers who did not accept Noachide law as coming from God nor as binding on them (in the unlikely event that they ever even heard of the concept).
Thanks for reminding me; that had slipped my mind. Either that needs to be added to the list of stirahs between MT & MN, or an answer needs to be looked for. Do you (or anyone) remember the MN's context? Does it allow that Rambam is only commending Aristotle's wisdom in the spirit of קבל את האמת ממי שאמרו but not the person?
Regarding the unlikeliness of all gentiles having heard of Moshe, that is indeed an issue especially for those in the Americas (and even closer) etc. In the case of Aristotle, there are sources that indicate that he was aware of him, or more specifically, of the Jews and their wisdom, from which we can extrapolate that, as a curious person, he investigated who their teacher was.
Rambam thinks that the afterlife is dependent on intellectual attainment, not performance of specific mitzvos. Those are only a helper to understanding. He channels Aristotle in MT as well but without attribution. There is no contradiction here.
As always, you try to take both sides of every position: "I'm going with Judaism, but all religion is good." Religion is good, but it can also be bad." "Atheism is bad, but so are charedim" Even with comments: "Everyone should have an opinion, but I don't want trolls."
Has it really never occurred to you that EVERYONE thinks they're practicing the golden mean? I mean this seriously, because I am genuinely curious: Do you really think you're smarter than the rest of the world? You would never actually say that, of course, but do you, in your heart of hearts, actually think you've managed to hit that sweet spot that NO ONE ELSE has ever managed to find? I have no other way to understand why you continue to pump out these posts with essentially the same commonplace theme, apparently thinking you're delivering some kind of unique wisdom or view. From an armchair shrink perspective, I'd love to understand what you're thinking.