19 Comments

I respectfully ask that you please consider limiting the comments in general as many of the comments add zero value and they are very troubling to read. I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and it really bothers me to read such insulting comments that should never be written.

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If this is the hareidi society that I am asked/expected to support, then I should know what their values are and behavior is.

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No more comments unless I pay to troll?

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so what

become a haredi and find someone else to criticize

like anarcho syndicalists

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It's pretty common to limit comments to paid subscribers. This was a good decision.

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Dec 5, 2023·edited Dec 5, 2023

Many of us wonder why you didn't do that sooner.

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I regret that I cannot understand why anyone could seriously contemplate that charedim would change their philosophy because of the war. Most people will not willingly give up their privileged life and benefits unless forced to do so. Charedim are no different.

Moreover with their more limited contact with the outside world and with what they do have being filtered through their approved media, their view may be less immediate and have less impact than what the broader population reads and feels.

Further given the prevalent view that the IDF will smash Hamas, why shouldn't life go back to the previous status quo (or better given the mooted budgetary increase for mosdos). Surely the danger is over ?

And as a final point - with their trust in the Almighty why should the community be in any permanent and significant danger ?

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On a related note, when we in Galus Daven “Tika BeShofar…” and we are asking God to move us to Israel, we are essentially praying for a disaster. People don’t move unless forced to move. If we are being serious about this prayer, then what alternative interpretation is there? Have God send down a miraculous sign telling us he wants us to go? It’s not realistic. That’s just not how people behave. Additionally, God sent some pretty clear signs about his desire for us to move in 1948… And He’s continued to demonstrate his desire for us to be there ever since.

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The Chazon Ish, The Chasam Sofer, and most others rule that יישוב ארץ ישראל is a מצווה דאורייתה. So G-d already told us. When G-d gave the Torah, He expected us to fulfill it in ארץ ישראל.The Ramban states that our religious fulfillment of the mitzvot is practice for it's fulfillment in ארץ ישראל.

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Right, but clearly the possibility of actually being Chayav in the Mitzvos isn't enticing enough to cause a mass Aliyah event. If that was the case, don't you think we'd all be there already?

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But what about the high of living in your own country opposed to being an ethnic and cultural minority in your country of birth. Your

Biblical language which is basically the language of the country. What about living the history of the Jewish people. Living it and helping to make it. Is money everything? Isn't it worth it to do something bigger than yourself that you believe in and it is yours, that lives on with significance to you and your Jewish nation. Living

in Israel is a privilege and lucky are the people who live there. Your religion is real and meaningful. It's not just an inner experience with personal action with community experience and action but also a national experience. Who wants to live with anti- semitism? In our country we battle it unified and fulfilling our destiny.

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This all sounds nice, but I'm not saying there aren't reasons to go to Israel. Those are all excellent reasons. And I daresay people won't disagree with your points. However, it still doesn't work. Even if you package it as God sending clear signals as to where he wants us to live, we in Galus are happy to say "no thanks" and continue to pray for God to gather us into Israel. At some point, if we Daven hard enough to the point where God can no longer say no, He will have no choice but to bring about a calamity of epic proportions to finally convince us to move. What other choice does He have...

I'm just pointing out a reality.

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If you are a serious religious person you would not want to violate the command to live in Israel.On a non religious level many "can't make Aliyah". But what about encouraging and helping to prepare your children for Aliyah? Or are you just interested in other considerations, the children living near you who are in Galut etc..

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It does not take a disaster to make people go on Aliyah: family and economic pressures can do that.

Specifically speaking from experience in London where 3 of my children live: young people qualify professionally and get jobs and marry and have children. They then realise that they cannot afford to buy a house where their parents live and so have a choice of moving out of the established Jewish areas to join new communities of similar people (of which there are very few) or to go on Aliyah. The high cost of decent education also puts financial pressure on them (Although basic education here is free in both primary and secondary schools kodesh is not covered and has to be paid for.) If they are not doing well in their careers and parental help is not available then even this can all be financially difficult.

So if you are going to find it hard financially in England why not go to Israel and have it possibly less hard there or even the same ? One child goes on aliyah, then another and eventually parents may find half their children have gone on aliyah.

When the parents retire, going on aliyah is a vibrant possibility: a lot of your family is there, low living cost especially if you rent outside Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and one's income is tax free for 10 years.

Selling a house in London in the jewish areas if you owned it for 30- 40 years can easily generate enough to buy a decent apartment in RBS, Modi'in etc and leave a good sum left over to generate a reasonable basic income.

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I believe you have just described my point. Call it what you want, but a housing crisis sounds like a disaster to me. It's also in line with my point--people don't just pick up and move en masse unless they're forced to. But if we're being _really_ honest with ourselves and the Tefillah, it's going to take a catastrophe. I'm not talking about the trickle of Olim. Tika Beshofar is clearly asking for a mass Aliyah, and the only way that's gonna happen is if it's, in actuality, a mass exodus...

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Other than finances, is secular society making a step toward reconciliation with Charedim? I'd like to see some thought on that subject.

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