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shulman's avatar

I didn't listen to the audio yet, but on the first letter, it's so simple that there is milchemes mitzvah today? (It's not.) And even if it does apply (it very much may), does that mean there are no other legitimate reasons within a Torah framework to navigate the system carefully and not act to hasty at risk of jeopardizing charedi values? There are clear halachos on how the chachmei hatorah of every generation have the right to make decisions to uphold the upkeep of Torah. I'm not sure why it's a "distortion of Torah" just because things are more complicated and grey.

That said, most people here know position that there absolutely needs to be a change within the Charedi community and it's truly not right that they are living a different life and not sharing the burden. But the lack of understanding, while understandable from the hamon am (I can even justify anger on their part), from a Rosh Yeshiva who is representing torah, is sad.

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sruly's avatar

before I start I will say that wherever human pain and suffering is involved all talk might be insensitive but ההכרח לא יגונה so here goes

It seems like there is something fundamental missing in all these discussions about drafting charedim

notwithstanding all the official reasons the charedim don't join the army the simple truth and one that every charedi knows is the crux of the matter is that the way charedi society is structured for better or for worse is simply incompatible with intergration in to the military

intergration of the charedim into the army would cause deep fundamental change in the society as a whole as anybody who has an understanding of the society knows

and even a lot of charedim who are critical of charedi society still consider it for all kinds of reasons the society most alingned all in all with authentic judiasm and the most likely to preseve authentic judiasm because of that charedim just don't see going to the army as a realistic choice

I also want to point out that the fact is that no one in the charedi community forced the dati community to go to the army

from the charedi perspective the dati community decided based on their ideology that to serve in the army is a value and were always very enthusiastic about it while the charedim always considered that a mistaken view and thought that they too should not be in the army

I don't want to lengthen this with an analogy so think of one on your own

the point is to come running and say what's with you we're getting killed etc. a charedi would say get out of there why are you there in the first place

and don't answer with the tired arguement if not for us then who because then it would be a different situation and who knows

(for example it may be that then the religious would be so vital to the army that they would have more power to change the structure in ways that would be accomodating to the extent that it wouldn't impact the society the same way something impossible currently)

there is much more to be said and I am sure every point can be argued and counterargued just doing my part to bring clarity to this issue

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