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Yakov's avatar

I have been addicted to your blog. Making it paid will cure me from my addiction.

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

Oh, I'm going to need stronger rehab than that!

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

DNS, first of all, a public apology. It pained me to see you so huffy in that DM. You get me confused sometimes. On the one hand, you seem to LOVE confrontation - posting provocative posts incessantly and allowing your critics pretty free reign. There is even a pesky little troll who frequents my blog with inanities and the only reason why I have not yet banned him is because of your inspiration. And I feel like a kindred spirit in this regard. On the other hand, you sometimes get pretty sensitive. So if I've insulted you, I ask forgiveness.

On another note, I was amazed to see a political post - with a Charedi twist! Wow, what a chiddush!

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Happy's avatar

It's not a contradiction. I will explain it in classic Brisker style. There are two dinim. When it comes to himself, Natan is very sensitive. When it comes to others, he is confrontational. Is that clear?

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*******'s avatar

Very much not classic Brisker style. More Rogetchover/Telz, but yeah.......

PS Brisk does not focus on internal 'mehus' type chakiros. Brisk is much less existentialist. You see, an academic study of Brisker torah can even enhance it - you would know straight away whether something was a Brisk type chakirah or a Telz type chakirah. Bit like academics know when an amora appears to speak to somebody living a few hundred years ago, as happens from time to time in the talmud. Tosfos sometimes flags issues like that (when in a modernish mood), but not always. It enhances the understanding of a sugyoh to realise the debate sometimes spans hundreds of years. The yeshivish incorrect understanding is that a sugyoh all took place at the same time during afternoon seider in some yeshivah in bovel...... a flat talmud....

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Don Coyote's avatar

"אמר ליה" is only stated between contemporaries. If not, normally there'll be a הגהה. (People have been in a modernish mood forever.) If that wording isn't used, they aren't necessarily contemporaries. You seem to project otherwise on the yeshivish.

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*******'s avatar

It's not just 'omer leihs'.

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Bpsb's avatar

"There is even a pesky little troll who frequents my blog".

I checked him out and don't see why he is pesky or little. He's just doing what you're doing here, stating his opinion about what he feels is really wrong.

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

Well, he may state his opinion, but unlike me, he never explains himself. When presented with a counterargument, his response is always 'classic yeshivish' or something to that effect. And he continuously puts words into my mouth that I never said and is constantly attacking Chassidim or bringing in other random things which are completely irrelevant to whatever is being discussed. See below. You will be proud of me for how much restraint I exercised!

https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/natan-seems-completely-unaware-of/comment/11848890

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Shaul Behr's avatar

I'm inclined to be a little more charitable towards the Likud in the Deri debacle. During coalition negotiations, they had no choice but to make Deri a minister; without him (and Shas) there could be no government. And then we return to our endless cycle of indecisive elections, with no functioning government. Coalition politics almost invariably involves making some highly unpalatable decisions. I'm not saying I would have done the same in their shoes, but at least I can understand why they had to accept him.

Now that he's been disqualified, they're making a hue and cry about the "injustice" of the situation. Why? Well, if you accept my argument above, then you can also say that this is not out of any moral conviction that the court did the wrong thing; it's simply the politically expedient thing to do. Wring your hands, gnash your teeth, cry crocodile tears over the fact that our *dear* friend Aryeh Deri cannot server as a minister - but don't try *too* hard to get him reinstated. After all, we *are* a law-abiding government, and even if we disagree with the court's decision, we must respect it. This way Likud gets to keep Shas in the coalition, while scrubbing the optically appalling Deri from the Cabinet group photo.

I could even be more charitable and suggest it's possible that they anticipated this court case, and appointed Deri privately hoping that he would be disqualified. But even I'll admit that seems a bridge too far.

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Koillel nick's avatar

Re Deri -

If we use Torah to understand the world, then the Deri case should be compared to a chazan (or any communal position) who sinned in Orach Chaim 53. Since Deri plead guilty, the main discussions of the poskim (rumors and kala delo pasik) are not relevant.

Biur Halacha citing Chasam Sofer discusses a case that the community wants the sinner to continue in his post. Chasam Sofer allows it, but adds that even if 1 congregant is opposed he can prevent it.

So there is what Daas Torah should be.

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Sholom's avatar

Deri made a legal commitment to not again serve in government for the rest of his life.

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Don Coyote's avatar

How can he claim it was only in that Knesset?

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Sholom's avatar

How can he have managed to accumulate hundreds of millions of dollars in assets while having been a servant of the poor the whole time?

Perhaps he's really good at conniving?

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

By the way, if anyone isn't willing/able to pay for their subscription, they are welcome to comment over at my blog. We keep a close eye on the goings-on at RJ there!

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LES AYM's avatar

🤮🤮🤮

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

😉😒☹️🙁😖😨😩🤯🤪😵‍💫😵🥴😡😠

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LES AYM's avatar

Now now! Frum men don't send kisses to other men, people might think your peculiar in a "gay" way 🤣🤣

(Meant in a light hearted way)

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Moshe's avatar

Slifkin and his silly blog are a:

Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem Chilul Hashem

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Arthur Etrog's avatar

Estoppel would not apply since he fulfilled the terms of his agreement at the time of conviction. He did resign from the government. The agreement did not exclude him from running in the future. The time to challenge him on estoppel would have been as soon as his hat was thrown into the ring or as soon as he was elected but prior to being sworn in. Since no challenge was issued at that time. estoppel can not apply.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

You are ignoring the nature of the plea agreement.

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Sholom's avatar

Deri will be running things whether or not he has an official position.

His corrupting influence will be there either way.

Only difference will be the Chillul HASHEM of it being OFFICIAL.

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Richie's avatar

Your Blog is about Chillul Hashem.

I'm not sure why the first issue is a Chillul Hashem.

As regards the second issue, here's what the רמב"ם says about the עבירה of חילול השם:

אע"פ שהתשובה מכפרת על הכל, ועצמו של יוה"כ מכפר, יש עבירות שהן מתכפרים לשעתן, ויש עבירות שאין מתכפרים אלא לאחר זמן.

המחלל את השם, אע"פ שעשה תשובה, והגיע יום הכפורים והוא עומד בתשובתו ובאו עליו יסורין, אינו מתכפר לו כפרה גמורה עד שימות. אלא תשובה, יוה"כ ויסורין - שלשתן תולין, ומיתה מכפרת, שנאמר: "ונגלה באזני ה' צבאות אם יכופר העון הזה לכם עד תמותון" (ישעיהו כב, יד).

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Gabriel's avatar

I don't think making your blog subscrption-only is a good idea. The people you most want to reach are those whom you disagree with in your posts, which are also the ones least likely to make a subscription to the blog. With a subscription model you'll be preaching only to the converted.

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Don Coyote's avatar

Maybe it's for the best. Maybe in his judgment his critiques don't cross a red line. Then in his critics judgment he has and they respond in kind. Then he thinks they're the ones crossing the line and it becomes a free for all on both sides. As we've seen without end.

And so continueth a vicious cycle of verbal violence.

---

But now the critics will leave or otherwise be banned and he'll vent uninterrupted to the choir. They'll listen graciously and slowly slowly he'll find some peace from the unwarranted Gehinom to which he was subjected. Maybe not true peace but at least enough for him to be able to settle into being a regular RZ who isn't obsessING ABOUT Chareidi problems.

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

It's very simple. I believe he wrote recently that he currently has over 3k subscribers. Someone showed me a stat that in general, when a blog newsletter starts charging, only around one third of the subscribers drop out (obviously if it's a reasonable price, which $8/mo definitely is). Taking that into account, he is set to start making around $200,000 a year off this thing! Of course he should do it!! (But as a paid subscriber, I am expecting higher quality and better-researched material from a journalist with such a cushy salary.)

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

Your calculations are off. By about $200,000.

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Elliott Shevin's avatar

Rabbi, I suggest this refutation requires some elaboration.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

See my latest post

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

Scout's honor - is the director of the museum getting all these donations going get an increase in salary? Not that he shouldn't! He's working hard and bringing serious revenue. Just let's be real.

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Arthur Etrog's avatar

Not at all. The agreement did not explicitly bar him from future political roles.

The Agreement was for 2 charges of not reporting income. He agreed to pay nis 180,000 in fines plus any taxes owed. Deri agreed to resign from the Knesset and the conviction will not carry moral turpitude, allowing the politician to continue in public life.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

You are ignoring the nature of the plea agreement, that I specifically highlighted in my post.

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Arthur Etrog's avatar

The agreement on the prior criminal charges against Deri did not disallow him from joining a future government. If the agreement the Deri reach in settlement of those charges were to stop him from joining in future governments in should have used the words "moral turpitude" which is defined in Israeli law as a reason for disbarment from running or serving in government. "Moral turpitude" was discussed during negotiations between the prosecutor and Deri's lawyers and were taken off the table and not included in the final agreement. So there is no basis in Israeli law to stop him from being a Minister. The HJC referenced British law to bar him from being a Minister.

And Common Sense is NOT law.

Yes, common sense would expect someone who has been charged and not acquitted of the crimes to be disallowed from serving as a member of government, but Israeli law is silent on this unless he serves time or agrees that his crime is one of "moral turpitude".

HJC overrode the Knesset law and use foreign law instead. That was bad for everyone not just Deri.

This is the bench creating its own rules of law. This is not what the bench should be allowed to do.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

You are ignoring the nature of the plea deal.

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Avraham Keslinger's avatar

1. In all negotiations, one side asks for the Moon, the Sun and the stars and the other side offers nothing. Then, they start talking. However, I will note that it is really it is very difficult to get enough MKs to show up to get 61. Look at the votes. I am somewhat surprised at you, being that you are from the UK. There, Parliament can do whatever it pleases. No court can strike down any of its acts.

2.. I think that the support for Deri was really a way of thumbing their noses at Hayut & Co. They did not disqualify Deri because of his priors. Legally, he is qualified. They presumed to say that he is not worthy. That is a political decision.

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

I don't know too much about Deri and whether there is merit to the claims mentioned here or not. But I just want to explain why perhaps the Charedi public does not seem too disturbed by the charges (again, this is conjecture, as an outsider to these particular politics, but somewhat familiar with the Charedi mindset in Israel in general).

Quite simply, the Charedi public in Israel (rightfully) perceives themselves as a persecuted minority, standing up to tremendous abuse and harassment from the secular Israeli majority. One need to look no further than this very blog to see the crazed hostility and contempt in which they are held. So anything that the secular establishment does is 'them vs. us', and they give it very little weight. They view it as just another cynical ploy and abuse of power used by the secular state to fight them. So yes, it may possibly be a Chilul Hashem (I am not familiar with the specifics), but for anyone to ignore this reality is missing a crucial part of the puzzle.

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LES AYM's avatar

You seem sharp and I probably can't keep up and go back and forth with you so just gonna state my 2 cents. The Chareidi Olam in Israel are just a bunch of trained minions, taught not to think but to blindly follow their "Overlords" and their Overlords AKA the Rabbonim don't give a crap about The State. All they care about is their little fifedom their kehilla. So the ends Justify the Means. Who cares about the treifa medinah we'll just milk the "fraya" for all we can. Suck 'em dry. Just as they use (abuse) the Rabbinut. (Chareidim in America too are trained not to think, but the American tradition of individualism has somewhat seeped in to their blood, so it's not as severe in the USA)

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LES AYM's avatar

If this was April 1st, I'd think this is an April fools joke!

Are you serious! A paywall? 8 dollars a month?

Your readership will drop to half or even less!

I mean, I loved your books. Your hashkofos explaining how to make peace between the worlds of science & Torah are great and helped me a lot!

I'm grateful for all that, but I'm NEVER going to pay to read a blog! Especially at this point where although I enjoy reading you, it's mostly repetitious, with minor tweak updates.

PLEASE not trying to insult you. But you seriously need to rethink this or it's goodbye, so sorry.

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Yakov's avatar

True words. I'm a paid subsciber to Razib Khan's 'Unsupervised Learning' for $5 a month and what I get is original scientic research and podcasts with experts in the fields of genetics, history, antropology and other social sciences. This blog, while having its niche, doesn't have the quality to make it worth a subcription of $8 a month. I would rather give my money to a kollel. Try it and you will lose most of your readers.

Your books and monographs are another matter.

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Jordan's avatar

Razib Khan summarizes research done by others, he doesn't do original scientific research. He is great at the book-learning part. Those summaries are great -- for those who have the basics.

Unfortunately he is a really bad interviewer, has a hard time setting context and way too interested in name-dropping, so the podcast is mostly unlistenable. IMO.

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Uriah’s Wife's avatar

“…It was a disgrace and chillul Hashem of the first order to see the entire religious political establishment line up in full support of a repeated and unabashed criminal. (And Deri’s role in enabling the Meron tragedy makes his financial crimes look minor by comparison.) …”

It should come as no surprise that so many Orthodox Jews go OTD, seeing the immoral selection of Deri as a minister in the government. Deri’s selection demonstrates that the whole basis of halachic authenticity and truthfulness is a sham. The ENTIRE religious political establishment opts for a convicted criminal !? Abandoning Orthodoxy would be the smartest thing any chareidi person should opt for to totally distance him/herself from their criminally centered society.

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