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Frankie's avatar

Amazing stuff. The Rishonim like Ramban have no problem ascribing things to miracles (let alone the other Rishonim who were mysteriously left unmentioned here who have no problem with unstressed miracles throughout Tanach; eg. Yocheved giving birth at 130 was, as some rishonim say, 'not such a big deal that it had to be mentioned', et al.).

However: if they'd be alive today they'd agree with Natan. Why? Cuz he says so. And he's an authority on these matters, you see.

Maybe if the Ran would be alive today and see that his theory doesn't fit scientifically he'd agree with Ramban? Nah. Natan doesn't say so.

Or maybe almost nothing actually observable has changed since the time of the Rishonim as far as the viability of the story? They couldn't think of the question of ventilation? Or of how they survived in the conditions? Ah, the primitive Ramban didn't chap that animals tend to have different habitats. After all, he thought elephants can jump so maybe he assumed they, like, took turns with the other animals keeping their feet on the floor. Thank god (or whomever) for zoologists.

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

Well, well, well, look who's feeling oh-so-noble with their fancy introduction. After snarkily attacking Charedim for not having their own Genesis and Great Flood museums, your arguments were completely demolished by HGL https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/part-3-the-intellectually-challenged and Rational Traditionalist https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/natan-and-the-cavemen,

So now you've moved on to sulking about those crazy rigid fundamentalists who are not tolerant enough to allow others who are not as fundamental as them a place in Judaism. We should rename you Natan the Chameleon.

Well, if all you'd do is open a Gateways or Arachim seminar, that would be one thing. But you feel the need to go and consistently attack the Charedim for following the traditional approach by understanding that Genesis is from the deepest secrets of the Torah and far beyond our comprehension, as it is described by Chazal.

And let's not forget your proposed solutions that completely disregard the framework of Torah. As HGL so aptly pointed out, the Torah is not some malleable lump of silly putty that you can just mold to fit your own agenda. If you have a solution that works within traditional parameters and doesn't involve saying that the Torah is fabricated or other flat-out heresy, that would be fine. Unless, of course, you're willing to throw out the whole thing and declare parts of the Torah a complete fabrication. You know, like those early Reformers who ended up turning Judaism into a watered-down mess. Great idea, champ.

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