Bnei Brak isn't on the list of the world rattiest cities that I'd linked in the previous post, but London is.
1. Chicago
2. Los Angeles
3. London
4. Paris
What does this tell us about the inhabitants of these places? Why are they rattier then Bnei Brak? If you want to give a proper context to this problem, I would think you would look at the broad picture. Instead it was another not very intelligent hatchet job.
My next door chassidishe neighboor was a Kerestirer descendant and I knew about the mouse segula long before it became popular. He and his family didn't take it seriously even though they had a tradition that the maaseh did happen as told and the rebbe's photograph was hanging on the wall. It's mostly taken toungue in cheek as a harmless and fun curiousity, not a big deal.
Slifkin's using the rat problem common to cities to denigrate charedim and paint them negatively with a broad brush is worthy of Der Sturmer and is a new low.
This post and the previous one illustrate nicely how no matter what the Jews (excuse me - Charedim) do, their haters will always hate them. If they use segulahs, they're irrational fools. But if they use natural means, then they're a bunch of hypocrites. And all this at the very same time that their haters are busy favoring laws for some people but not for others.
Making hate speech illegal is a serious government breach on our rights to speak freely. Once you allow such laws into your society there is no way to contain them and new lines will be constantly drawn.
The same goes for socialism. You want Haredim off of the dole, end the welfare state and allow people to support what they want with their own resources. Once you accept legal theft, you can't complain that the stolen goods are going to groups that you don't support. They were elected by the people to be the "loot distributors" and they will therefore distribute the loot to whom they please.
Off topic (or perhaps on topic): The comment section of this blog has become a sewer, thanks to its being hijacked and monopolized by (I presume) one person, (I presume) writing under different names.
Given that this obsessed person or these persons already have their own blog, could you please ban their comments and instead post a link to his (their?) blog for those who find his (their?) comments of interest?
I am not familiar with any other blog that allows the types of comments left by this happy-go-lucky person (persons), nor any that allows itself to be hijacked like this.
(I do see that we have LOL as well, with his racist and ad hominem comments. LOL, I'm sorry to say this, but you're in the right place!)
Huh? Racist and ad hominem? Not sure what you are referring to here. But Mr. Ohsie, by that gratuitous attack, I know who you are already. Dear me, I'm so sorry you were triggered. Do you feel unsafe now? Sorry about that microaggression.
You seem incapable of seeing beyond your very insular viewpoint, so allow me to enlighten you: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Rabbi Slifkin likes to post vitriolic posts against Charedim, so don't be surprised that Charedim take offense and respond in kind. But for heaven's sake, if you can't see what was so obviously wrong with this post and the last and are just complaining about the comments they generated, I don't think you will ever be capable of understanding this. Nebach. What a snowflake.
Just noticed this response by the racist troll. Lots of people named David in this world. My posts are made under my full name, not pseudonyms as the trolls here use.
So some sort of childish tit-for-tat is it? Bal sikom? Seriously, the real talmidei chachomim, the real choredim al devar hashem, the real bnei torah just ignore slifkin and get on with their lives. Other obsess and find some sort of heter for using the internet and worse, blogs, (surely it's not for parnossoh purposes?) completely against da'as torah - but hey, obedience to da'as torah we know, its selective.
I'm not HappyGoLucky (heck, I'm barely even happy at all). and I don't like Slifkin's attacks on Chareidim neither.
I count!
By the way, when you meet the non-psychotically obsessed raving anti chareidi who *does* like the idea of a blogpost devoted to pointing out nasty things about chareidim, I'd like to meet the guy. Weird idea, that it must be only one guy in the world who doesn't like it... https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/solipsism
“And the claim that there is a charedi phenomenon of caring less about sanitation and believing in the power of segulos to keep rodents away was stated by none other than Rav Yitzchak Zilberstein“
Ah so some nutcases making a claim which is refuted by Charedi leadership is presented in this blog as the mainstream Charedi position.
Besides for the obvious stated by Lou, I would add that R' Zilberstein's nod towards segulos, assuming it wasn't contrived in order not to disrespect some people's customs, is absolutely NOT reflective of the general Chareidi attitude. Most Litvishe people would scoff at the idea of using segulos to get rid of rats. And I know many Chassidim who think the whole thing is pretty ridiculous as well. Either you are completely ignorant of Chareidi society and talking BS, or you are using a belief held in fact by a minority of Chareidim to try and paint all of them as superstitious Neanderthal doofuses. Racism at its best.
Either way, it's time for you to resume those shrink sessions.
Your own words illustrate perfectly the need for anti-Charedi hate speech legislation. For your paint an entire population with broad brush strokes, something you'd never do for any other group. Would you ever speak of blacks as indolent or unintelligent? Would you say women are incapable of bold or creative thinking? Of course not. At most you would say tepid phrases couched within a dozen disclaimers and qualifications, and most likely you'd be afraid to even address the issue at all. Yet you have no compunctions in mocking "charedim" believing in rat segulahs, a patently ridiculous claim. If I were UTJ I would hold up this post in the knesset as a textbook parade example of why legislation is needed. Thanks, NS!
That's not true, as can be seen easily just by looking at some posts within the past month. A well written or innocuous post will receive nothing but kudos or related thoughts and comments. But mean spirited or poorly thought out posts will be (rightly) called out, and even NS groupies like yourself have to admit, there's a lot of those types of posts.
"I’m often asked why Orthodox Jews (not just charedim) tend to be less concerned about the environment, and I think that the answer - that they have other priorities to focus on - is not a terrible thing."
But concern for the environment is not the same as basic cleanliness and sanitation. I still want to see some evidence that rat plague in BB is the cause of citizen's neglect and not a combination of a large population and gov't failure.
The claim that a heightened spiritual sensitivity would override the concern for filthy vermin is ridiculous: "ולא נראה זבוב בבית המטבחים"
Even in the most holy place on Earth, there was obviously a concern to avoid disgusting pests, otherwise there wouldn't be any point to the miracle!
I'm not sure that stupidity coming from UTJ MKs is newsworthy. It might be if the next Litvak Gadol HaDor™ is an anti-Chabad firebrand,
For the record, I made no accusations against you in my comments. I speculated the possibility that chareidim prioritizing other things can be the cause, same as why in Lakewood many don't wear reflectors or why the attitude on climate change and covid-like matters are generally more lax in more religious (and by extension, republican) circles. (Not sharing my personal beliefs, just pointing out the obvious correlation).
The question does stand out though, why did you choose to talk about this issue if not to promote some idea that the 'mystic' ideology fails? While the post itself is perfectly fine; I found almost nothing I disagree with, the implications are obvious, and completely unfounded.
We are big proponents of hishtadlus. We all live in this world. All we seem to disagree on is that to us it's just hishtadlus, an obligation we have, one of many. We get to weigh our obligations when they conflict with each other. As opposed to your view which is that since we live in this world, nothing takes precedence over the natural order and as such there can be no ideal that supersedes, trumps or can be more important than science, because if *we* are actually in charge, no one will ever step if not us.
But then you end up agreeing "that it’s [not] a particularly horrific claim... Orthodox Jews (not just charedim) tend to be less concerned about the environment, [because] they have other priorities to focus on - [which] is not a terrible thing." Isn't this a contradiction to your fight against mysticism?
There is no hishtadlut ! You follow the rules of "Nature",.G-d's way of running the world. Sometimes He might interfere but it is forbidden to rely on miracles. What are you Moshe Rabbanu !
The Rambam emphasized contending with the rules of Nature and not depending on being protected by G-d.This is your obligation. Yes we ask G-d to help us to succeed. But we not expect miracles,that is results radically differing from Nature,Nissim Geluyim.And not even hidden miracles ordinarily.
For the second time, no one said anything about miracles. Second of all, you said, and I quote, "There is no hishtadlut ! " Even if you were correct that the Rambam believed so, which is highly debatable, since again, the alternative we are discussing is not miracles, but even if the Rambam did believe so, Rabbeinu Bachaye is clear in the Chovos Halevavos, which the chareidim follow, that there is hishtadlus and that is how the world runs. Since I am defending the chareidim, unless you deny what the chovos halevavos says, and show why I am misreading or something, you can't fault the chareidim for following his shita. which means there is no attack.
(And I want to point out for the record that the Rambam doesn't deny that we can affect nature directly through our actions, though it may be reserved for the elitist of the elite, see Moreh part 3 perek 51 and the psukim we say every day in the second parsha of Shema)
If it differs from the usual natural cause and effect in nature it is considered a miracle. Actually it is Hkodosh Bruch Who is directing the rules of the world which he wishes us to comply with. Rav Dessler pushed the Hishtadlus view to the point of considering appropriate action to be merely an illusion,of no real consequence.This promotes non- action or inconsequential action. In the real world actions have consequences. We are committed to the Torah snd are willing to sacrifice for it's observance. As Yaacov Avinu who prayed and was afraid of Eds and did not expect Divine protection. There is reward for choosing the Torah but we cannot depend on it in a specific case. צדיק ורע לו רשע וטוב לו. If we could easily see G-d rewarding and punishing according to deeds we would not have real בחירה.In fact one must always fear that our sins may harm us,as Yaaykov Avinu.
The Rambam stressed that one must deal with Nature
What you are describing is exactly what is called hishtadlus (I'm not sure why you said "there is no hishtadlut"), and unless one is on the proper level he truly must deal with nature. We are on the same page. If בטחון leads to non or inconsequential action who are not on the level, which harms those individuals, דמיהם בראשיהם. But if other people are going to the army, and if the army is absolutely not a place for a frum Jew to be in, we are supposed to make a cost/benefit analysis along with שומר מצוה לא ידע דבר רע and all of the other promises Hashem gives for those who are בחקתי תלכו, because Hashem *does* protect those who are here to do His will. We are here to do His will, that's all we are here for. And if we do, He takes care of us. He promises.
Instead of being mad that we aren't all going to the physical army, let's be מתחזק in our עבודת השם and learn with more diligence and Daven with more יראת הרוממות, because that is our army duty.
Great idea! But that will end up creating a cat epidemic as they have in Jerusalem. And then we will have Natan complaining again about how yucky Chareidim are because of all the cats.
That's been a problem since they were imported by the British to deal with snakes and Rats. I was recently on a Moshav with tons of cats running around. When asked why, I was told they "filled up a pickup truck of cats from Jerusalem to deal with the Rat problem, but now they're here to stay".
None of the above. It was a lighthearted comment with no malice intended. The basis of the lighthearted comment was that in fact, dogs and cats are NOT usually kept as pets by the vast majority of Charedim (though there are certainly exceptions). My apologies if you felt offended.
This is why people keep winning huge jury verdicts for reverse discrimination. B/c all these laws are founded on the fundamentally Orwellian premise that only some people are entitled to protection from discrimination, but not others.
I think this is a watershed comment, that (alleged) inconsistency doesn't necessarily show mass insincerity, in this case certainly not.
That in itself is a very significant observation that can stand on its own, but allow me to elaborate. I recently read a Kiruv book published this year that contains among other things the proof of the 'only' 4 animals that have one sign. So far, so what...? But more fascinating is that the author says that he's used the various proofs of his book in lectures totaling thousands of listeners, some religious some not. (I only got the book because one of my children told me what a great speaker he is.)
So here you have what might be termed mass ignorance among the religious and irreligious, both of the author/speaker (I aver that he's sincere and honest) and the readers/audiences. They're clueless of the complications. Thousands don't know about RDNS & his books to the point that this author, himself ignorant, takes to the lecture circuit without fear. (Obviously for others something else is needed.)
How aware then are Bnei Brak Chareidim of any (alleged) inconsistency in their conduct if sometimes they engage in Hishtadlus and sometimes they don't?
How should one be committed to keep the Torah? What form should the commitment take? If the general population, i.e. chilonim are not committed, should they nevertheless be compelled to do so? How would you obligate such persons to observe your Torah precepts and prohibitions as you see them?
Also, why do you consider Rav Slifkin and his society not Jewish. Doesn’t he observe all the mitzvot and observe the same prohibitions that you do?
So anyone who is Shomer Mitzvot but sees science as a product of creation and sees the world working according to the laws of science that Hashem created is an am haaretz in your view. Wonder how many Rishonim you de facto put into that category.
In your pretend sick world everyone who is not Chareidi or pretend charedi is reform and goyim.And remember even if your hallucination were true on on Yom Kippur we pray with the עבריינים. We are also ערבים זה לזה. You do not reflect Chareidi values!
If you had any brains you would consider the realities of this world and adopt the opinion of the Chazon Ish. Rav Kook saw the Secular who help build the State as starting the process of Teshuvah. You are throwing huge amounts of people into the garbage. Take a leaf out of Chabad's approach to all Jews. The proof is in the amount of Baalei Teshuvah there are. Rav Reuvain Feinstein , Rav Moshe Feinstein's son , told me that we have to keep trying,לא עליך העבודה לגמור.Sure enough many who were not observant or weak in their observance became religious, more observant, etc..
No. The stone throwing, trash burning, Covid breaking, measles spreading, benefit stealing, Meron causing (etc etc etc) chareidim are responsible for today's tinok shenishbah situation and undermining torah with a massive chillul hashem.
Why on earth should any Jew not religious want to become religious, when they see all this beamed into their living rooms? You think they make a chiluk between the various forms of orthodox judaism? They see the behaviour of religious Jews and think fundamentalist ignoramuses - no thank you.
Once upon a time, what went on in charediland stayed in charediland. That is no longer the case.
So the MO and the DL are not "those who spread kefira להכעיס?!In your opinion their approach is terribly wrong. And in the MO and DL community your approach is wrong or not preferable. The Chareidi Leumi is really Charedi for the most part with a complete embrace of KOOKIAN adherence and loyality to the ideals of religious Zionism. But it is crowned with much Chareidi values and ideals.
Bnei Brak isn't on the list of the world rattiest cities that I'd linked in the previous post, but London is.
1. Chicago
2. Los Angeles
3. London
4. Paris
What does this tell us about the inhabitants of these places? Why are they rattier then Bnei Brak? If you want to give a proper context to this problem, I would think you would look at the broad picture. Instead it was another not very intelligent hatchet job.
My next door chassidishe neighboor was a Kerestirer descendant and I knew about the mouse segula long before it became popular. He and his family didn't take it seriously even though they had a tradition that the maaseh did happen as told and the rebbe's photograph was hanging on the wall. It's mostly taken toungue in cheek as a harmless and fun curiousity, not a big deal.
Slifkin's using the rat problem common to cities to denigrate charedim and paint them negatively with a broad brush is worthy of Der Sturmer and is a new low.
This post and the previous one illustrate nicely how no matter what the Jews (excuse me - Charedim) do, their haters will always hate them. If they use segulahs, they're irrational fools. But if they use natural means, then they're a bunch of hypocrites. And all this at the very same time that their haters are busy favoring laws for some people but not for others.
Making hate speech illegal is a serious government breach on our rights to speak freely. Once you allow such laws into your society there is no way to contain them and new lines will be constantly drawn.
The same goes for socialism. You want Haredim off of the dole, end the welfare state and allow people to support what they want with their own resources. Once you accept legal theft, you can't complain that the stolen goods are going to groups that you don't support. They were elected by the people to be the "loot distributors" and they will therefore distribute the loot to whom they please.
#FreeIsrael
#EndSocialism
Hate crime has to be hardest law to rule against. Its why the UN struggle with a definition.
Off topic (or perhaps on topic): The comment section of this blog has become a sewer, thanks to its being hijacked and monopolized by (I presume) one person, (I presume) writing under different names.
Given that this obsessed person or these persons already have their own blog, could you please ban their comments and instead post a link to his (their?) blog for those who find his (their?) comments of interest?
I am not familiar with any other blog that allows the types of comments left by this happy-go-lucky person (persons), nor any that allows itself to be hijacked like this.
(I do see that we have LOL as well, with his racist and ad hominem comments. LOL, I'm sorry to say this, but you're in the right place!)
Huh? Racist and ad hominem? Not sure what you are referring to here. But Mr. Ohsie, by that gratuitous attack, I know who you are already. Dear me, I'm so sorry you were triggered. Do you feel unsafe now? Sorry about that microaggression.
You seem incapable of seeing beyond your very insular viewpoint, so allow me to enlighten you: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Rabbi Slifkin likes to post vitriolic posts against Charedim, so don't be surprised that Charedim take offense and respond in kind. But for heaven's sake, if you can't see what was so obviously wrong with this post and the last and are just complaining about the comments they generated, I don't think you will ever be capable of understanding this. Nebach. What a snowflake.
Just noticed this response by the racist troll. Lots of people named David in this world. My posts are made under my full name, not pseudonyms as the trolls here use.
And others.
Yes, people use pseudonyms for legitimate reasons as well, not only for racist trolling. The racist troll claimed I was hiding.
So some sort of childish tit-for-tat is it? Bal sikom? Seriously, the real talmidei chachomim, the real choredim al devar hashem, the real bnei torah just ignore slifkin and get on with their lives. Other obsess and find some sort of heter for using the internet and worse, blogs, (surely it's not for parnossoh purposes?) completely against da'as torah - but hey, obedience to da'as torah we know, its selective.
Sorry but you overwhelmingly lost the vote.
Besides, Dr Slifkin’s greatest virtue here is his remarkable tolerance to sustain these attacks. Give credit where credit is due.
You call the hard truth “the sewer”, Mr Oscar the grouch, living in the garbage dump of falsehood can do that to you.
I'm not HappyGoLucky (heck, I'm barely even happy at all). and I don't like Slifkin's attacks on Chareidim neither.
I count!
By the way, when you meet the non-psychotically obsessed raving anti chareidi who *does* like the idea of a blogpost devoted to pointing out nasty things about chareidim, I'd like to meet the guy. Weird idea, that it must be only one guy in the world who doesn't like it... https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/solipsism
“And the claim that there is a charedi phenomenon of caring less about sanitation and believing in the power of segulos to keep rodents away was stated by none other than Rav Yitzchak Zilberstein“
Ah so some nutcases making a claim which is refuted by Charedi leadership is presented in this blog as the mainstream Charedi position.
Objective criticism that’s all folks.
uh, R. Zilberstein himself says that there are segulos.
Uh, he said himself they are secondary to focusing on the root cause.
Besides for the obvious stated by Lou, I would add that R' Zilberstein's nod towards segulos, assuming it wasn't contrived in order not to disrespect some people's customs, is absolutely NOT reflective of the general Chareidi attitude. Most Litvishe people would scoff at the idea of using segulos to get rid of rats. And I know many Chassidim who think the whole thing is pretty ridiculous as well. Either you are completely ignorant of Chareidi society and talking BS, or you are using a belief held in fact by a minority of Chareidim to try and paint all of them as superstitious Neanderthal doofuses. Racism at its best.
Either way, it's time for you to resume those shrink sessions.
Who does kupat ha'ir market to?
Dopes. I actually haven't seen their materials in a while, do they still advertise?
I dunno. Still looking for a replacement to RCK maybe.
That is true, though in defense of R. Zilberstein we do find supernatural methods and deeper causations of infestation in the ירושלמי דמאי א ג
רִבִּי פִינְחָס בֶּן יָאִיר אֲזַל לְחַד אֲתַר אֲתוּן לְגַבֵּיהּ אָֽמְרוּן לֵיהּ עַכְבָּרָיָא אֲכַל עִיבּוּרָן. גָּזַר עֲלֵיהֹן וְצַמְתּוּן שָׁרוּן מְצַפְצְפִין אֲמַר לוֹן יָֽדְעִין אַתּוּן מַה אִינּוּן אָֽמְרִין אָֽמְרוּ לֵיהּ לָא. אֲמַר לוֹן אָֽמְרוּ דְּלָא מְתַקְּנָא. אָֽמְרוּ לֵיהּ עוֹרְבָן וְעָֽרְבוֹן וְלָא אַנְכּוּן.
However obviously that comes after focusing on the natural causes, which in that case obviously wasn’t being effective.
Your own words illustrate perfectly the need for anti-Charedi hate speech legislation. For your paint an entire population with broad brush strokes, something you'd never do for any other group. Would you ever speak of blacks as indolent or unintelligent? Would you say women are incapable of bold or creative thinking? Of course not. At most you would say tepid phrases couched within a dozen disclaimers and qualifications, and most likely you'd be afraid to even address the issue at all. Yet you have no compunctions in mocking "charedim" believing in rat segulahs, a patently ridiculous claim. If I were UTJ I would hold up this post in the knesset as a textbook parade example of why legislation is needed. Thanks, NS!
"This earned me some harsh responses."
THAT earned you harsh responses? Even the most innocent post of yours is going to bring out the goon squad.
That's not true, as can be seen easily just by looking at some posts within the past month. A well written or innocuous post will receive nothing but kudos or related thoughts and comments. But mean spirited or poorly thought out posts will be (rightly) called out, and even NS groupies like yourself have to admit, there's a lot of those types of posts.
"I’m often asked why Orthodox Jews (not just charedim) tend to be less concerned about the environment, and I think that the answer - that they have other priorities to focus on - is not a terrible thing."
But concern for the environment is not the same as basic cleanliness and sanitation. I still want to see some evidence that rat plague in BB is the cause of citizen's neglect and not a combination of a large population and gov't failure.
The claim that a heightened spiritual sensitivity would override the concern for filthy vermin is ridiculous: "ולא נראה זבוב בבית המטבחים"
Even in the most holy place on Earth, there was obviously a concern to avoid disgusting pests, otherwise there wouldn't be any point to the miracle!
I'm not sure that stupidity coming from UTJ MKs is newsworthy. It might be if the next Litvak Gadol HaDor™ is an anti-Chabad firebrand,
This is hilarious, coming from a guy who claimed orthodox Jews were racists, and that criticism of Obama was just disguised racism.
For the record, I made no accusations against you in my comments. I speculated the possibility that chareidim prioritizing other things can be the cause, same as why in Lakewood many don't wear reflectors or why the attitude on climate change and covid-like matters are generally more lax in more religious (and by extension, republican) circles. (Not sharing my personal beliefs, just pointing out the obvious correlation).
The question does stand out though, why did you choose to talk about this issue if not to promote some idea that the 'mystic' ideology fails? While the post itself is perfectly fine; I found almost nothing I disagree with, the implications are obvious, and completely unfounded.
We are big proponents of hishtadlus. We all live in this world. All we seem to disagree on is that to us it's just hishtadlus, an obligation we have, one of many. We get to weigh our obligations when they conflict with each other. As opposed to your view which is that since we live in this world, nothing takes precedence over the natural order and as such there can be no ideal that supersedes, trumps or can be more important than science, because if *we* are actually in charge, no one will ever step if not us.
But then you end up agreeing "that it’s [not] a particularly horrific claim... Orthodox Jews (not just charedim) tend to be less concerned about the environment, [because] they have other priorities to focus on - [which] is not a terrible thing." Isn't this a contradiction to your fight against mysticism?
There is no hishtadlut ! You follow the rules of "Nature",.G-d's way of running the world. Sometimes He might interfere but it is forbidden to rely on miracles. What are you Moshe Rabbanu !
No one is relying on miracles. Did you ever read שער הבטחון in the Chovos Halevavos? Sounds like you need a refresher on Bitachon 101
The Rambam emphasized contending with the rules of Nature and not depending on being protected by G-d.This is your obligation. Yes we ask G-d to help us to succeed. But we not expect miracles,that is results radically differing from Nature,Nissim Geluyim.And not even hidden miracles ordinarily.
For the second time, no one said anything about miracles. Second of all, you said, and I quote, "There is no hishtadlut ! " Even if you were correct that the Rambam believed so, which is highly debatable, since again, the alternative we are discussing is not miracles, but even if the Rambam did believe so, Rabbeinu Bachaye is clear in the Chovos Halevavos, which the chareidim follow, that there is hishtadlus and that is how the world runs. Since I am defending the chareidim, unless you deny what the chovos halevavos says, and show why I am misreading or something, you can't fault the chareidim for following his shita. which means there is no attack.
(And I want to point out for the record that the Rambam doesn't deny that we can affect nature directly through our actions, though it may be reserved for the elitist of the elite, see Moreh part 3 perek 51 and the psukim we say every day in the second parsha of Shema)
If it differs from the usual natural cause and effect in nature it is considered a miracle. Actually it is Hkodosh Bruch Who is directing the rules of the world which he wishes us to comply with. Rav Dessler pushed the Hishtadlus view to the point of considering appropriate action to be merely an illusion,of no real consequence.This promotes non- action or inconsequential action. In the real world actions have consequences. We are committed to the Torah snd are willing to sacrifice for it's observance. As Yaacov Avinu who prayed and was afraid of Eds and did not expect Divine protection. There is reward for choosing the Torah but we cannot depend on it in a specific case. צדיק ורע לו רשע וטוב לו. If we could easily see G-d rewarding and punishing according to deeds we would not have real בחירה.In fact one must always fear that our sins may harm us,as Yaaykov Avinu.
The Rambam stressed that one must deal with Nature
What you are describing is exactly what is called hishtadlus (I'm not sure why you said "there is no hishtadlut"), and unless one is on the proper level he truly must deal with nature. We are on the same page. If בטחון leads to non or inconsequential action who are not on the level, which harms those individuals, דמיהם בראשיהם. But if other people are going to the army, and if the army is absolutely not a place for a frum Jew to be in, we are supposed to make a cost/benefit analysis along with שומר מצוה לא ידע דבר רע and all of the other promises Hashem gives for those who are בחקתי תלכו, because Hashem *does* protect those who are here to do His will. We are here to do His will, that's all we are here for. And if we do, He takes care of us. He promises.
Instead of being mad that we aren't all going to the physical army, let's be מתחזק in our עבודת השם and learn with more diligence and Daven with more יראת הרוממות, because that is our army duty.
People in Bnei Brak need to get cats as pets. And to those who will say cats aren't a frum pet, here's a picture of Rav Lopian feeding a cat: https://nefesh.org/assets/tinymcepics/rav%20lopian%20and%20the%20cat.jpg
Great idea! But that will end up creating a cat epidemic as they have in Jerusalem. And then we will have Natan complaining again about how yucky Chareidim are because of all the cats.
That's been a problem since they were imported by the British to deal with snakes and Rats. I was recently on a Moshav with tons of cats running around. When asked why, I was told they "filled up a pickup truck of cats from Jerusalem to deal with the Rat problem, but now they're here to stay".
None of the above. It was a lighthearted comment with no malice intended. The basis of the lighthearted comment was that in fact, dogs and cats are NOT usually kept as pets by the vast majority of Charedim (though there are certainly exceptions). My apologies if you felt offended.
"Adios."
And you just ruined a nice rant by concluding with a culturally appropriated valediction.
Well said. Laws for all or Laws for none.
This is why people keep winning huge jury verdicts for reverse discrimination. B/c all these laws are founded on the fundamentally Orwellian premise that only some people are entitled to protection from discrimination, but not others.
I think this is a watershed comment, that (alleged) inconsistency doesn't necessarily show mass insincerity, in this case certainly not.
That in itself is a very significant observation that can stand on its own, but allow me to elaborate. I recently read a Kiruv book published this year that contains among other things the proof of the 'only' 4 animals that have one sign. So far, so what...? But more fascinating is that the author says that he's used the various proofs of his book in lectures totaling thousands of listeners, some religious some not. (I only got the book because one of my children told me what a great speaker he is.)
So here you have what might be termed mass ignorance among the religious and irreligious, both of the author/speaker (I aver that he's sincere and honest) and the readers/audiences. They're clueless of the complications. Thousands don't know about RDNS & his books to the point that this author, himself ignorant, takes to the lecture circuit without fear. (Obviously for others something else is needed.)
How aware then are Bnei Brak Chareidim of any (alleged) inconsistency in their conduct if sometimes they engage in Hishtadlus and sometimes they don't?
This exactly.
@HappyGo
How should one be committed to keep the Torah? What form should the commitment take? If the general population, i.e. chilonim are not committed, should they nevertheless be compelled to do so? How would you obligate such persons to observe your Torah precepts and prohibitions as you see them?
Also, why do you consider Rav Slifkin and his society not Jewish. Doesn’t he observe all the mitzvot and observe the same prohibitions that you do?
Lol, there are religious Zionists who could learn circles around you
Truly one of your dumber responses.
Your a good Charedi computer but you don't have basic understanding what it is about. You're the Am Haatetz.
So anyone who is Shomer Mitzvot but sees science as a product of creation and sees the world working according to the laws of science that Hashem created is an am haaretz in your view. Wonder how many Rishonim you de facto put into that category.
Unfortunate for you that it does not compute
In your pretend sick world everyone who is not Chareidi or pretend charedi is reform and goyim.And remember even if your hallucination were true on on Yom Kippur we pray with the עבריינים. We are also ערבים זה לזה. You do not reflect Chareidi values!
If you had any brains you would consider the realities of this world and adopt the opinion of the Chazon Ish. Rav Kook saw the Secular who help build the State as starting the process of Teshuvah. You are throwing huge amounts of people into the garbage. Take a leaf out of Chabad's approach to all Jews. The proof is in the amount of Baalei Teshuvah there are. Rav Reuvain Feinstein , Rav Moshe Feinstein's son , told me that we have to keep trying,לא עליך העבודה לגמור.Sure enough many who were not observant or weak in their observance became religious, more observant, etc..
No. The stone throwing, trash burning, Covid breaking, measles spreading, benefit stealing, Meron causing (etc etc etc) chareidim are responsible for today's tinok shenishbah situation and undermining torah with a massive chillul hashem.
Why on earth should any Jew not religious want to become religious, when they see all this beamed into their living rooms? You think they make a chiluk between the various forms of orthodox judaism? They see the behaviour of religious Jews and think fundamentalist ignoramuses - no thank you.
Once upon a time, what went on in charediland stayed in charediland. That is no longer the case.
So the MO and the DL are not "those who spread kefira להכעיס?!In your opinion their approach is terribly wrong. And in the MO and DL community your approach is wrong or not preferable. The Chareidi Leumi is really Charedi for the most part with a complete embrace of KOOKIAN adherence and loyality to the ideals of religious Zionism. But it is crowned with much Chareidi values and ideals.