Rabbi Slifkin, my wife had the opportunity to take your advise and give some mild rebuke to some of our neighbors' wives at a get together to say Tehilim over Shabbat.
They literally could not respond. Most of them are overseas-born long time Israelis. Almost all of their descendants, both male and female, do not do any form of national service.
I have not yet had the opportunity my wife had. If I did, I'm not sure I would be qualified enough, in words and emotion, to be of any benefit.
This morning the train station I use every day in Tel Aviv had one exit closed with a sign that because of the security situation they do not have enough manpower to keep all entrances open. The train station on Modi'in closed one of the entrances a few weeks ago.
Similarly, many Yeshivot have had to replace staff, including Ramim with less experienced or less qualified people, as their staff (and students) are risking their lives to protect the country.
In other words, because of the thousands of young people serving in Miluim for months on end, essential services such as trains and Talmud Torah are no longer able to operate at regular capacity.
Yet certain leaders in the Charedi community are still claiming that there is no manpower shortage in the army and no reason to encourage even a small number of Bochrim to serve in the army, or even volunteer for other essential services.
"claiming that there is no manpower shortage in the army "
Denial of facts is becoming common elsewhere. Here in NYC I encounter lots of folks who insist that there is no shortage of housing. In fact it is the worst since at least the 1960s.
Because jobs become ever more centralized in big cities (increasing demand to live in those cities), but the amount of housing stays roughly constant (because zoning restrictions prohibit building any more in most places)
… And all those half-chareidi, and even non-chareidi, leaders standing by quietly, afraid to object, are guilty too. They should take another look at Gittin 56a
No, the "Religious Zionists" party does - and for the same reason as the secular Likud party, naked politics (to keep the current coalition together and avoid elections)
"Several years ago, Rav Aharon Lopiansky wrote that “the robbing of our youths’ formative years as a ben Torah would be a price that we could not pay.” In response, Rabbi Yitzchak Adlerstein responded pithily, “Agreed. But how do we ask other, reluctant Israelis to pay a different price so that we don’t have to pay ours?” Rabbi Adlerstein’s sentiment is what has been fundamentally missing from charedi discourse."
You constantly quote this as if Rabbi Adlerstien is correct. But it's obvious that Rabbi Lopiansky is correct. The people who intentionally rob their own youths formative years as Benei Torah don't do it "reluctantly ", they do it enthusiastically, with pride, with a hand on their heart and "Hatikvah" on their lips. They sold their souls to the secular Zionists, to the kofrim and meshumadim, who take complete advantage of them, who squeeze them of every drop of blood, both physically and spiritually, yet who show nothing but contempt for them. And then they blame chareidim for not making the same mistake.
Sorry for sounding harsh. But when you keep pushing and pushing, you are asking, nay, begging for this response.
I can explain how . You observe all the Mitzvot and rituals, don tefillin, observe all the halachas of shabbos, taharas mishpacha etc. etc. Yet Azmaveth still smears you as a kofer and meshumad because you vilify him for refusing to physically labor in defense of the State. Under what reasonable halachic or secular scenario might some folks be so parasitic and selfish, employing twisted halachic criterion to exempt themselves in defence of their country by a monstrous foe intent on murdering every Jew in the land? Why would he even try to do so? What might rupture one’s mind to engage in such crackpot endeavors? Only one such impulsion comes to mind: Inbreeding.
Actually, he's a kofer and meshumad because...he's a kofer and meshumad. Even if he keeps the mitzvos-doubtful-it won't save him, as the Ramban explains.
At least you implicitly acknowledge the point that you are willing to stand idly by while your fellow countrymen fight an opponent who would gladly murder you, and you somehow make yourself out to be the good guy!
First, you're not sorry. Second, you don't sound harsh. You sound wrong. And you are wrong.
"They sold their souls to the secular Zionists, to the kofrim and meshumadim"
No, they are מסירת נפש for כלל ישראל. You may be fixated on Bibi, BG and Herzl, but our soldiers have loftier things in their minds and hearts. It's אחינו כל בית ישראל that is in peril. And you focus on the State and heretics? Why? Why do you ignore the plight of you brothers? Why do you pretend that you're not one of them?
Your framing of the war as being merely a matter of secular Zionism, kofrim and meshumadim betrays how distant you are from our tragedy and crisis.
Who said "merely"? The secular Zionism, kofrim amd meshumadim may not be the only factor, but it's the most important one. It's the cause of this situation. On the other hand, your framing of the chareidim as "selfish" and "parasites" for merely wanting their children to remain benei Torah, and not sell their souls as you have, betrays how distant you are from the Torah.
Living off public funds and refusing to help the community in a life and death matter makes the hareidim the polar opposite of what Chazal meant by Bnei Torah. Remember, R Akiva’s students joined Bar Kochba’s army and revolt.
Who appointed you to speak for Chazal? You know nothing about them or their values. I would rather listen to the Gedolim. Even a random yeshiva bochur would know more about them than you.
lol I spent my entire youth in that world. A wasted youth I might add. And who appointed you the high priest of response on their behalf on the treif internet…?
"The secular Zionism, kofrim amd meshumadim may not be the only factor, but it's the most important one. "
Ok, let me edit, "Your framing of the war as being primarily a matter of secular Zionism, kofrim and meshumadim betrays how distant you are from our tragedy and crisis."
"On the other hand..."
No. The correct use of the phase of "on the other hand" is to introduce another way at looking at the same issue. It's not used to bring up a different but related issue. So it's correct to say, "Kamala Harris is a threat to the republic; on the other hand Donald Trump is a threat to democracy", since both clauses deal with the issue of whom to vote for. But it's wrong to say "Smoking is unhealthy; on the other hand driving impairs judgement"
So I won't respond to your non sequitur, despite its lies.
Sorry for sounding harsh. But when you keep pushing and pushing, you are asking, nay, begging for this response. -- Don't worry about an apology - just help the chareidi community reflect on not being poresh from the tzibur... thanks !
Who's the "tzibbur"? The chilonim? The Masortim? The dati-lites? No. The tzibbur is the shomrei Torah. There is only a small tzibbur of non-chareidi shomrei Torah, and they were poresh from us.
Note that, it's about separation when the nation is in distress. It's not about separation when there's tranquility. Furthermore, the גמרא first uses the term ישראל, then ציבור which means that ציבור is the entire nation and not some exclusive elite.
3) The מהר"ל on אבות ב:ד:
שמנו הפורשים מדרכי הצבור בכלל מינים ואפיקורסים שכופרים בתורה ובתחיית המתים, כדאיתא במסכת ראש השנה (יז.), שאמר שם; 'אבל המינים והמוסרים והמשומדים והאפיקורסים שכפרו בתורה ובתחיית המתים, ושפרשו מדרכי צבור ,
So the פורשים מן הציבור are NOT the same as heretics, but are counted among them.
Again, since you 1. lack reading comprehension 2. you are dishonest and 3. blatantly lie, it's useless to discuss this with you. But reading all the sources of פורשים מדרכי הצבור makes it clear it is the tzibbur of Shomrei Torah, not the tzibbur you are part of.
Sounding like a hysterical poster pasted onto the wall in Meah Shearim is not an argument, I'm afraid. That doesn't remotely describe the current IDF. You're stuck in 1957...
"He admits it, he just says that religion/Torah isn't so important compared to materialism and secular nationalism." Either provide a citation, apologize for falsifying my views, or be banned. Your choice.
So go ahead and ban me you little sissy. Go run to your mother's apron strings!
But I'll still provide some citations which you will of course brazenly lie and say that's not what you meant:
"And don’t claim that it’s preferable for a soldier to be killed than to become secular. Few charedim actually seriously believe this."
"It is indeed true that your child is more likely to suffer spiritual harm if they go to the army and college. Yet they are also a good deal more likely to suffer physical harm, but this is not a reason not to send them on that path! "
So exactly. Harm to religion not as important as physical harm. This is exactly what I would expect from a kofer and a meshumad such as yourself.
You ought to include some of the specific examples of recent comments in the body of the post (MK Roth: "Dati Leumi community are useful idiots", Goldknopf "Getting blanket army exemption is the mimimum of what we're entitled to", etc)
Religious groups have always gotten blanket exemptions from conscription in the US if they claim to oppose all wars. But they are required to perform alternative service, either in non-combatant roles in the military (usually as medics) or in civilian roles (usually in hospitals). And the fraction of the population claiming such exemptions is tiny. Thousands of conscientious objectors went to prison during WW2 when they refused the alternative service.
Interestingly, the first conscription in here was by the Confederacy during the Civil War. Only actual ministers got exempted, not their congregants. But they exempted slaveowners and overseers of large numbers of enslaved people. Priorities! :( When the Union started conscription later in the war, Lincoln supported much broader exemptions, including the possibility of paying a substitute. Future President Grover Cleveland paid a substitute and didn't serve. He was the only President between Martin Van Buren and William Howard Taft to have no military service whatsoever.
Also, while claiming conscientious objection would be honest, the charedim would never do it, for obvious reasons.
Southern slaveholders lived in terror of slave uprisings for centuries, for good reason. So exempting those with slaves sort of made sense. Although probably it was just because they were rich.
Fun fact: Cleveland, as Erie County (Buffalo) sheriff, oversaw executions, and didn't believe it was right to fob it off on an assistant. So he pulled the trap himself at least a few times. The only other president to kill people outside of combat was Andrew Jackson, who liked to duel. Teddy Roosevelt killed some Spanish soldiers in combat, and George Washington had a complicated story.
And then you've got the rare cases like Desmond Doss, the first conscientious objector to win the Medal of Honor. (Two who were medics in Vietnam won it posthumously.)
Alvin York was a conscientious objector but that didn't last. :-)
The problem with this post, as well as many others here, is that you constantly speak of "the chareidim" and "they," putting them all in the same basket. While some of what you write may be true about some chareidim, statements like "they don’t really care about all the suffering that goes on outside of their community" are flat-out libel about many of them.
I would be happy to accept suggestions on improving my writing, and thank for for enabling us to reach Godwin's law in record time.
To spell it out, the issue is not that I find it too dificult to click on the link. The issue is that regardless of what is written in that post, the statements in this post and others are overly broad and grossly inaccurate.
I need to add, charedim are actually hurting the perception of the ultra Orthodox. Rather than being a model of human behavior the impression one gets is they are parasitic and dont even care that they are parasitic and probably gloat over it.
Did you watch this video by Rav Tamir Granot? Worth noting that the comments are full of charedim saying "it's painful how true this is". Yes their leadership is depraved but I wouldn't extend that to the average charedi person, who has a conscience but is stuck in a difficult social position.
When a Chareidi home is on fire do they 1)stay inside and learn, 2) go outside and learn , or 3) call the fire department from either inside or outside? So according to the Netziv , Zevulan and Yissachar didn’t merit not being part of Sancherrib’s removal and disappearance because….?
Jewish settlers in New Amsterdam fought for, and won, the right to bear arms in the militia and not pay the alternative tax. And they weren't doing it to save the money.
Sorry to inform hareidem that nobody is obligated to provide them assets just because they want to learn Torah. That they can unshamefully take or rather really steal from others to support their habit is disgusting. They have no shame and should be despised.
Maybe posting pashkevillin in Charedi areas would ensure your gripes reach their intended audience. It’d probably be more effective than writing these posts or trolling people on social media.
Don't worry, my posts reach many targets. For example, many subscribers forward them to their charedi relatives. There's also several charedi roshei yeshiva who read my blog. (No, I won't say who.)
I'd love to read an actual articulate article from the other side. Like a serious, rational article on the side of the Charedim making their case based on facts. Is there no actual argument besides the claim "there is no shortage"?
It's a complicated topic with many facets and there isn't a monolith within the Charedi community which further confuses things, but I think I can make a pretty good case. You can start by reading my post: https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-halachic-and-hashkafic-analysis along with clarifying comments. Please share your thoughts if you disagree with anything thus far...
Rabbi Slifkin, my wife had the opportunity to take your advise and give some mild rebuke to some of our neighbors' wives at a get together to say Tehilim over Shabbat.
They literally could not respond. Most of them are overseas-born long time Israelis. Almost all of their descendants, both male and female, do not do any form of national service.
I have not yet had the opportunity my wife had. If I did, I'm not sure I would be qualified enough, in words and emotion, to be of any benefit.
This morning the train station I use every day in Tel Aviv had one exit closed with a sign that because of the security situation they do not have enough manpower to keep all entrances open. The train station on Modi'in closed one of the entrances a few weeks ago.
Similarly, many Yeshivot have had to replace staff, including Ramim with less experienced or less qualified people, as their staff (and students) are risking their lives to protect the country.
In other words, because of the thousands of young people serving in Miluim for months on end, essential services such as trains and Talmud Torah are no longer able to operate at regular capacity.
Yet certain leaders in the Charedi community are still claiming that there is no manpower shortage in the army and no reason to encourage even a small number of Bochrim to serve in the army, or even volunteer for other essential services.
"claiming that there is no manpower shortage in the army "
Denial of facts is becoming common elsewhere. Here in NYC I encounter lots of folks who insist that there is no shortage of housing. In fact it is the worst since at least the 1960s.
Why is is bad?
Because jobs become ever more centralized in big cities (increasing demand to live in those cities), but the amount of housing stays roughly constant (because zoning restrictions prohibit building any more in most places)
And other reasons.
… And all those half-chareidi, and even non-chareidi, leaders standing by quietly, afraid to object, are guilty too. They should take another look at Gittin 56a
הואיל והוו יתבי רבנן ולא מחו ביה שמע מניה קא ניחא להו
… and we know how that ended!
Add to them all the members of the government who voted in favor of the daycare subsidy bill today
Clearly, the religious Zionists insist on and demand the chareidi draft exemption!
No, the "Religious Zionists" party does - and for the same reason as the secular Likud party, naked politics (to keep the current coalition together and avoid elections)
Unfortunately, that's exactly right. We also have politicians who should be shown the exit door.
The datiim voted for them and support them. That means the datiim wholeheartedly insist on and demand the chareidi draft exemptions.
You do realize there is no such thing as "the religious Zionists." We don't check our brains at the door, unlike certain other Jews.
You don't show much evidence of having brains in the first place
I deliberately did not write that in the second person because I didn't want to be insulting.
Good to know you have no such restraints. You're one of the twelve-year-olds, I see.
Oh, thanks for not wanting to be insulting, David Ohsie. I see through you every time.
Back to "Neener, neener, neener," eh?
"Several years ago, Rav Aharon Lopiansky wrote that “the robbing of our youths’ formative years as a ben Torah would be a price that we could not pay.” In response, Rabbi Yitzchak Adlerstein responded pithily, “Agreed. But how do we ask other, reluctant Israelis to pay a different price so that we don’t have to pay ours?” Rabbi Adlerstein’s sentiment is what has been fundamentally missing from charedi discourse."
You constantly quote this as if Rabbi Adlerstien is correct. But it's obvious that Rabbi Lopiansky is correct. The people who intentionally rob their own youths formative years as Benei Torah don't do it "reluctantly ", they do it enthusiastically, with pride, with a hand on their heart and "Hatikvah" on their lips. They sold their souls to the secular Zionists, to the kofrim and meshumadim, who take complete advantage of them, who squeeze them of every drop of blood, both physically and spiritually, yet who show nothing but contempt for them. And then they blame chareidim for not making the same mistake.
Sorry for sounding harsh. But when you keep pushing and pushing, you are asking, nay, begging for this response.
I'm curious. Do you think that you have responded to R. Adlerstein's point?
Yes. Any other questions?
Can you please explain how?
Rav Slifkin,
I can explain how . You observe all the Mitzvot and rituals, don tefillin, observe all the halachas of shabbos, taharas mishpacha etc. etc. Yet Azmaveth still smears you as a kofer and meshumad because you vilify him for refusing to physically labor in defense of the State. Under what reasonable halachic or secular scenario might some folks be so parasitic and selfish, employing twisted halachic criterion to exempt themselves in defence of their country by a monstrous foe intent on murdering every Jew in the land? Why would he even try to do so? What might rupture one’s mind to engage in such crackpot endeavors? Only one such impulsion comes to mind: Inbreeding.
How else can you explain it?
Murdering every Jew in the world. This is explained by son of Hamas.
Actually, he's a kofer and meshumad because...he's a kofer and meshumad. Even if he keeps the mitzvos-doubtful-it won't save him, as the Ramban explains.
At least you implicitly acknowledge the point that you are willing to stand idly by while your fellow countrymen fight an opponent who would gladly murder you, and you somehow make yourself out to be the good guy!
First can you explain what Rav Adlerstein's point was?
I meant what *you* think Rav Adlerstein's point was. I know what it was, and it should be clear to anybody how my comment addressed it.
"Sorry for sounding harsh. "
First, you're not sorry. Second, you don't sound harsh. You sound wrong. And you are wrong.
"They sold their souls to the secular Zionists, to the kofrim and meshumadim"
No, they are מסירת נפש for כלל ישראל. You may be fixated on Bibi, BG and Herzl, but our soldiers have loftier things in their minds and hearts. It's אחינו כל בית ישראל that is in peril. And you focus on the State and heretics? Why? Why do you ignore the plight of you brothers? Why do you pretend that you're not one of them?
Your framing of the war as being merely a matter of secular Zionism, kofrim and meshumadim betrays how distant you are from our tragedy and crisis.
Who said "merely"? The secular Zionism, kofrim amd meshumadim may not be the only factor, but it's the most important one. It's the cause of this situation. On the other hand, your framing of the chareidim as "selfish" and "parasites" for merely wanting their children to remain benei Torah, and not sell their souls as you have, betrays how distant you are from the Torah.
Living off public funds and refusing to help the community in a life and death matter makes the hareidim the polar opposite of what Chazal meant by Bnei Torah. Remember, R Akiva’s students joined Bar Kochba’s army and revolt.
Who appointed you to speak for Chazal? You know nothing about them or their values. I would rather listen to the Gedolim. Even a random yeshiva bochur would know more about them than you.
lol I spent my entire youth in that world. A wasted youth I might add. And who appointed you the high priest of response on their behalf on the treif internet…?
You wasted your adulthood and old age also...
"The secular Zionism, kofrim amd meshumadim may not be the only factor, but it's the most important one. "
Ok, let me edit, "Your framing of the war as being primarily a matter of secular Zionism, kofrim and meshumadim betrays how distant you are from our tragedy and crisis."
"On the other hand..."
No. The correct use of the phase of "on the other hand" is to introduce another way at looking at the same issue. It's not used to bring up a different but related issue. So it's correct to say, "Kamala Harris is a threat to the republic; on the other hand Donald Trump is a threat to democracy", since both clauses deal with the issue of whom to vote for. But it's wrong to say "Smoking is unhealthy; on the other hand driving impairs judgement"
So I won't respond to your non sequitur, despite its lies.
Sorry for sounding harsh. But when you keep pushing and pushing, you are asking, nay, begging for this response. -- Don't worry about an apology - just help the chareidi community reflect on not being poresh from the tzibur... thanks !
Who's the "tzibbur"? The chilonim? The Masortim? The dati-lites? No. The tzibbur is the shomrei Torah. There is only a small tzibbur of non-chareidi shomrei Torah, and they were poresh from us.
"The tzibbur is the shomrei Torah. "
Please cite the source that the definition of ציבור is שומרי תורה.
Here are some sources:
1)
כׇּל תַּעֲנִית שֶׁאֵין בָּהּ מִפּוֹשְׁעֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֵינָהּ תַּעֲנִית (כריתות ו:)
מהרש"א: דהיינו שהפושע אינו פורש מן הצבור...
So the ציבור doesn't just include שומרי תורה.
2)
בִּזְמַן שֶׁיִּשְׂרָאֵל שְׁרוּיִין בְּצַעַר וּפֵירַשׁ אֶחָד מֵהֶן, בָּאִין שְׁנֵי מַלְאֲכֵי הַשָּׁרֵת שֶׁמְּלַוִּין לוֹ לָאָדָם, וּמַנִּיחִין לוֹ יְדֵיהֶן עַל רֹאשׁוֹ, וְאוֹמְרִים: פְּלוֹנִי זֶה שֶׁפֵּירַשׁ מִן הַצִּבּוּר אַל יִרְאֶה בְּנֶחָמַת צִבּוּר.
(תענית יא)
Note that, it's about separation when the nation is in distress. It's not about separation when there's tranquility. Furthermore, the גמרא first uses the term ישראל, then ציבור which means that ציבור is the entire nation and not some exclusive elite.
3) The מהר"ל on אבות ב:ד:
שמנו הפורשים מדרכי הצבור בכלל מינים ואפיקורסים שכופרים בתורה ובתחיית המתים, כדאיתא במסכת ראש השנה (יז.), שאמר שם; 'אבל המינים והמוסרים והמשומדים והאפיקורסים שכפרו בתורה ובתחיית המתים, ושפרשו מדרכי צבור ,
So the פורשים מן הציבור are NOT the same as heretics, but are counted among them.
Again, since you 1. lack reading comprehension 2. you are dishonest and 3. blatantly lie, it's useless to discuss this with you. But reading all the sources of פורשים מדרכי הצבור makes it clear it is the tzibbur of Shomrei Torah, not the tzibbur you are part of.
Sounding like a hysterical poster pasted onto the wall in Meah Shearim is not an argument, I'm afraid. That doesn't remotely describe the current IDF. You're stuck in 1957...
Unfortunately, it's an accurate description of both the dati community and the IDF. Even Natan Slifkin admits it. See here: https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/why-risk-your-kids
See this recent discussion here https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/snapped/comment/74995771
He admits it, he just says that religion/Torah isn't so important compared to materialism and secular nationalism. Of course. Are we surprised
I say no such thing. You are a liar. But I don't think anyone is surprised.
There's a river in Egypt called denial...
"He admits it, he just says that religion/Torah isn't so important compared to materialism and secular nationalism." Either provide a citation, apologize for falsifying my views, or be banned. Your choice.
So go ahead and ban me you little sissy. Go run to your mother's apron strings!
But I'll still provide some citations which you will of course brazenly lie and say that's not what you meant:
"And don’t claim that it’s preferable for a soldier to be killed than to become secular. Few charedim actually seriously believe this."
"It is indeed true that your child is more likely to suffer spiritual harm if they go to the army and college. Yet they are also a good deal more likely to suffer physical harm, but this is not a reason not to send them on that path! "
So exactly. Harm to religion not as important as physical harm. This is exactly what I would expect from a kofer and a meshumad such as yourself.
I think he should be banned from this site. His views are well-known at this point.
Why? Because you feel uncomfortable hearing it? Slifkin's views are also well-known. Do you propose he stops writing his daily insane rants?
Go get your own blog, then. And go back on your meds.
You just say that because you spend all your time on internet blogs attacking Rav Slifkin.
You ought to include some of the specific examples of recent comments in the body of the post (MK Roth: "Dati Leumi community are useful idiots", Goldknopf "Getting blanket army exemption is the mimimum of what we're entitled to", etc)
Religious groups have always gotten blanket exemptions from conscription in the US if they claim to oppose all wars. But they are required to perform alternative service, either in non-combatant roles in the military (usually as medics) or in civilian roles (usually in hospitals). And the fraction of the population claiming such exemptions is tiny. Thousands of conscientious objectors went to prison during WW2 when they refused the alternative service.
Interestingly, the first conscription in here was by the Confederacy during the Civil War. Only actual ministers got exempted, not their congregants. But they exempted slaveowners and overseers of large numbers of enslaved people. Priorities! :( When the Union started conscription later in the war, Lincoln supported much broader exemptions, including the possibility of paying a substitute. Future President Grover Cleveland paid a substitute and didn't serve. He was the only President between Martin Van Buren and William Howard Taft to have no military service whatsoever.
The key word is "tiny."
Also, while claiming conscientious objection would be honest, the charedim would never do it, for obvious reasons.
Southern slaveholders lived in terror of slave uprisings for centuries, for good reason. So exempting those with slaves sort of made sense. Although probably it was just because they were rich.
Fun fact: Cleveland, as Erie County (Buffalo) sheriff, oversaw executions, and didn't believe it was right to fob it off on an assistant. So he pulled the trap himself at least a few times. The only other president to kill people outside of combat was Andrew Jackson, who liked to duel. Teddy Roosevelt killed some Spanish soldiers in combat, and George Washington had a complicated story.
Tens of thousands of conscientious objectors in WW2 for the US, compared to 11 million people in uniform. Less than one percent.
And I imagine most served in some way.
And then you've got the rare cases like Desmond Doss, the first conscientious objector to win the Medal of Honor. (Two who were medics in Vietnam won it posthumously.)
Alvin York was a conscientious objector but that didn't last. :-)
I was thinking of Alvin York. Gary Cooper played him in a 1941 movie.
The problem with this post, as well as many others here, is that you constantly speak of "the chareidim" and "they," putting them all in the same basket. While some of what you write may be true about some chareidim, statements like "they don’t really care about all the suffering that goes on outside of their community" are flat-out libel about many of them.
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/generalizations-about-generalizations
Don't direct me to another post. Improve either your thinking or your writing.
Clicking on links is hard.
EDIT: to the point, not all Germans were Nazis.
Miss the point much?
Back at you!
May I suggest that you improve your thinking or your writing. No need to thank me.
I would be happy to accept suggestions on improving my writing, and thank for for enabling us to reach Godwin's law in record time.
To spell it out, the issue is not that I find it too dificult to click on the link. The issue is that regardless of what is written in that post, the statements in this post and others are overly broad and grossly inaccurate.
It's the chareidi leadership he focusses on. Fish rot from the head.
That's why in my comment I wrote "Haredi leadership" rather than "Haredim".
I need to add, charedim are actually hurting the perception of the ultra Orthodox. Rather than being a model of human behavior the impression one gets is they are parasitic and dont even care that they are parasitic and probably gloat over it.
Agreed. I would like to see evidence of their political representatives in the Knesset discussing this on a meaningful way.
Did you watch this video by Rav Tamir Granot? Worth noting that the comments are full of charedim saying "it's painful how true this is". Yes their leadership is depraved but I wouldn't extend that to the average charedi person, who has a conscience but is stuck in a difficult social position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoRcnP4Htwo
When a Chareidi home is on fire do they 1)stay inside and learn, 2) go outside and learn , or 3) call the fire department from either inside or outside? So according to the Netziv , Zevulan and Yissachar didn’t merit not being part of Sancherrib’s removal and disappearance because….?
"he says that these people pay higher monetary taxes to support the military!"
That was the model in every Muslim country in pre-modern times. Jews were exempt from conscription, but had to pay the Jizya tax.
Jewish settlers in New Amsterdam fought for, and won, the right to bear arms in the militia and not pay the alternative tax. And they weren't doing it to save the money.
You can't expect shame from the shameless, mercy from the self-idolator, or kindness from the selfish.
Sorry to inform hareidem that nobody is obligated to provide them assets just because they want to learn Torah. That they can unshamefully take or rather really steal from others to support their habit is disgusting. They have no shame and should be despised.
Maybe posting pashkevillin in Charedi areas would ensure your gripes reach their intended audience. It’d probably be more effective than writing these posts or trolling people on social media.
Don't worry, my posts reach many targets. For example, many subscribers forward them to their charedi relatives. There's also several charedi roshei yeshiva who read my blog. (No, I won't say who.)
Real charedi roshei yeshiva or fake/wannabe charedi?
Most chareidim are wannabe chareidim.
That's deep
One of whom may have given a haskama to a Nosson long ago
Really? I wasn't aware of that one. But it doesn't surprise me.
Why would you expect Jewish behavior from those who aren't Jewish (any more)?
I'd love to read an actual articulate article from the other side. Like a serious, rational article on the side of the Charedim making their case based on facts. Is there no actual argument besides the claim "there is no shortage"?
It's a complicated topic with many facets and there isn't a monolith within the Charedi community which further confuses things, but I think I can make a pretty good case. You can start by reading my post: https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-halachic-and-hashkafic-analysis along with clarifying comments. Please share your thoughts if you disagree with anything thus far...