Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Efraim's avatar

I really appreciate your "all of Israel" feeling, your concern that it will be very difficult here if the ultra-Orthodox don't mobilize. Everyone has the same feeling and the same concern. But, I long ago stopped referring to them as part of the people of Israel. why? (1) Because they compare themselves to Arabs who are not part of the People of Israel: "Why do you demand that we enlist and not the Arabs"? (2) Because according to the N12 investigation, only 5-15% of ultra-Orthodox men study 12/6 and the rest is a money industry and fraud by Yeshiva leaders and kollels. So there is nothing here related to learning Torah. It is about the lack of any feeling in the face of raped women, murdered men, captives and one hundred and fifty thousand people who were expelled from their homes and their jobs in the communities on the border of Lebanon and Gaza (3) because they refer to religious-nationalists as "Gentiles", "Amalek" and "Arab Rav" and studying the Torah of the Gentiles It is nothing but forbidden Torah study because a Gentile is not allowed to study Torah. (4) The cries in the ultra-Orthodox press and ultra-Orthodox blogs these weeks are: "The end of Judaism"! "The end of Israel", "the end of the Torah", "the war of annihilation against the Jews"! - All this, because in the eyes of the "Orthodox", we are not Jews...

Expand full comment
Bob's avatar

The Netziv was writing in a different time where he imagined those studying Torah full time were regular members of society that somehow had an income, perhaps from property ownership, that enabled them to live while studying. He could not have envisaged a whole class of people who would be able to live like this by surviving off govt benefits and not earning a living because such a concept didn't exist in his day. He probably would have disapproved if he had known, given all the prohibitions concerning not earning a living and living off charity.

But it wouldn't work today as you can't pay higher taxes if you pay little or no taxes to begin with, earn no income and are a net beneficiary from the govt. And they also believe they are performing the highest form of national service by learning.

Expand full comment
130 more comments...

No posts