I think you should be happy about this video. Change in charedi society can only come from within. Boys dressing up as half IDF soilders is a not so subtle signal that you can be both chareidi and a soilder.
I get what you're saying. But I still appreciate the video. Charedi kids being taught to show respect and solidarity with chayalim is a step in the right direction.
While I completely agree with you, I don't think that the politicians are realistic. One cannot force an entire brainwashed sector to serve. Furthermore, you can speak to them with logic all you'd like, they will ultimately follow the gedoylim. Any politician who talks about shivyon banetel knows this but they make waves about it too score some some points. The only thing they can and should do is defund any institution that does not teach quality curriculums, and provide financial incentives to serve. Anything else just causes division and is not realistic.
Seems to me that nothing short of the end of Chareidim as a hashkafa will really make you happy. Chareidim must join the army no psharos nothing to allow them to fulfill their religious obligations as they understand them. Even if they would find a derech to serve it would not be enough for you and this blog would still publish page after page of anti Chareidi propaganda
Wow, Slifkin. I am really saddened by the constant denunciations. It appears Chareidi hatred blinds you. This video's absolutely clear intent is to stand for the idea that a Yid can be BOTH a soldier and and a yeshiva bachur. IE that a ben yeshiva SHOULD absolutely serve. IE that EACH person should have both identities. NOT that each kid stands for society as a whole and that society as a whole should be split that way! The Chareidi haters are blinded and take every statement the worst possible way. They can't even see when someone agrees with them! They seem bound and determined to hate and see nothing good from Chareidim even when there is an absolutely clear statement of support for their own position that Chareidi boys must serve!
As a member of the sector that serves, learns, prays, loses income, work time, and sleep, *I* find this both offensive and stupid. Frankly, the haredi community in Israel needs to tread lightly right now. They are not, to say the least endearing themselves to their fellow citizens or the rest of Am Yisael.
If Charedim were indeed brainwashed, deprogramming would work on them.
But the deprogramming bag of tricks only works on people caught in a cult, and doesn't work on Charedim. Because it isn't blind faith, it isn't a cult, and people are not brainwashed.
I think only a very 'special' type of outlook and mindset can take a cute video of three smiley (obviously sefardi) little kids and highlight this as representative of the evil Haredim. You are an intelligent person, Natan, why would you stoop to such childish, boorish and petty behavior? This is not even worthy of a fifth grade spat.
Regarding the remarks by "the Rabbi of the Peleg faction who declared that he’d rather have his children and grandchildren murdered by Hamas than join the IDF and risk becoming secular," he's probably right that his children and grandchildren would "risk" becoming secular were they drafted.
Likely, they almost surely would become secular.
That is because, once outside of the cult, they would see through the brainwashing they were brought up with and throw away their Yiddishkeit entirely, thinking that just as they were lied to about many aspects of society outside their cult, so too were they lied to about Torah m'Sinai, etc.
It's not logical, but that's how people are.
It speaks to the weakness of haredi culture, at least as to its most extreme and sheltered adherents.
I think you should be happy about this video. Change in charedi society can only come from within. Boys dressing up as half IDF soilders is a not so subtle signal that you can be both chareidi and a soilder.
I get what you're saying. But I still appreciate the video. Charedi kids being taught to show respect and solidarity with chayalim is a step in the right direction.
"chareidi employer"
thought that doesn't exist in slifkin land.
You gotta edit that out asap to "chareidi acquaintance" before other people see it!
While I completely agree with you, I don't think that the politicians are realistic. One cannot force an entire brainwashed sector to serve. Furthermore, you can speak to them with logic all you'd like, they will ultimately follow the gedoylim. Any politician who talks about shivyon banetel knows this but they make waves about it too score some some points. The only thing they can and should do is defund any institution that does not teach quality curriculums, and provide financial incentives to serve. Anything else just causes division and is not realistic.
Seems to me that nothing short of the end of Chareidim as a hashkafa will really make you happy. Chareidim must join the army no psharos nothing to allow them to fulfill their religious obligations as they understand them. Even if they would find a derech to serve it would not be enough for you and this blog would still publish page after page of anti Chareidi propaganda
Wow, Slifkin. I am really saddened by the constant denunciations. It appears Chareidi hatred blinds you. This video's absolutely clear intent is to stand for the idea that a Yid can be BOTH a soldier and and a yeshiva bachur. IE that a ben yeshiva SHOULD absolutely serve. IE that EACH person should have both identities. NOT that each kid stands for society as a whole and that society as a whole should be split that way! The Chareidi haters are blinded and take every statement the worst possible way. They can't even see when someone agrees with them! They seem bound and determined to hate and see nothing good from Chareidim even when there is an absolutely clear statement of support for their own position that Chareidi boys must serve!
Not impressed. Also, they are saluting with the wrong hand.
As a member of the sector that serves, learns, prays, loses income, work time, and sleep, *I* find this both offensive and stupid. Frankly, the haredi community in Israel needs to tread lightly right now. They are not, to say the least endearing themselves to their fellow citizens or the rest of Am Yisael.
I will have to concede one thing: A right-wing TV host put up a picture of this, and the responses were rhapsodic.
Now you know who votes for Shas.
If Charedim were indeed brainwashed, deprogramming would work on them.
But the deprogramming bag of tricks only works on people caught in a cult, and doesn't work on Charedim. Because it isn't blind faith, it isn't a cult, and people are not brainwashed.
You write 'offensive' as though you believed that was a bad thing.
Funny that the history of this blog tells me that you don't usually think so.
I think only a very 'special' type of outlook and mindset can take a cute video of three smiley (obviously sefardi) little kids and highlight this as representative of the evil Haredim. You are an intelligent person, Natan, why would you stoop to such childish, boorish and petty behavior? This is not even worthy of a fifth grade spat.
Regarding the remarks by "the Rabbi of the Peleg faction who declared that he’d rather have his children and grandchildren murdered by Hamas than join the IDF and risk becoming secular," he's probably right that his children and grandchildren would "risk" becoming secular were they drafted.
Likely, they almost surely would become secular.
That is because, once outside of the cult, they would see through the brainwashing they were brought up with and throw away their Yiddishkeit entirely, thinking that just as they were lied to about many aspects of society outside their cult, so too were they lied to about Torah m'Sinai, etc.
It's not logical, but that's how people are.
It speaks to the weakness of haredi culture, at least as to its most extreme and sheltered adherents.
the video is not offensive.
the reality that it doesnt reflect, is.
choose your targets carefully, Natan.
Shtender generals.
Definite improvement over the "ban" against soldier costumes (a decade ago):
"עקב גזירת השמד לא להתחפש לחיילים"
https://www.kikar.co.il/haredim-news/137275