A more complete scholarly treatment of swordfish here:
Based on the ruling of the renowned Sephardic posek, the Knesset haGedolah, Rabbi Chaim ben Yisrael Benvenisti (1603-73),1 who permitted “the fish with the sword,” halakhic decisors over three hundred of the last three hundred and fifty years, repeatedly and uniformly permitted some types of “swordfish.” The first time this was seriously challenged seems to have been by Rabbi Moshe David Tendler, Ph.D., in America in the 1950s. For reasons explored in this paper, his challenge was phenomenally successful. No one growing up Orthodox in the United States during the last forty years would have dreamed of considering the swordfish kosher. Indeed, currently, in every kosher fish list belonging to an Orthodox kashrut organization in America, the swordfish is categorized as non-kosher.
Rabbi Tendler’s successful campaign to overturn what was essentially a longstanding halakhic tradition developed into a protracted battle with both the Israeli Chief Rabbinate, in the persons of Chief Rabbi Isser Yehudah Unterman and Rabbi Shimon Efrati, the head of the Chief Rabbinate’s National Kashrut Division, and with the Conservative Movement in the United States."
This is why this the feast is important. In fact Swordfish was considered kosher for at least hundreds and probably thousands of years.
"Swordfish is popularly believed to be non-kosher, due to it lacking scales. However, the Talmud lists swordfish (under an Aramaicized form of the Greek name Xiphias) as a kosher fish, due to its possessing scales when it is young (these are later absorbed into the skin). Jews ate swordfish for many centuries with the approval of major halachic authorities and to the protest of nobody at all. It was only beginning in the 1950s that some people, lacking relevant information, started to fear that swordfish was not kosher and revised the historic tradition. By framing it as an Orthodox vs. Conservative issue, they succeeded in removing it from the Orthodox lists of kosher fish. But the tide has started to shift, with kashrut authorities such as Rav Machpud of Bnei Brak having personally inspected swordfish and attesting it to be kosher."
I dont agree. There are indeed no shortage of reformers who look to find a daas yachid here or an isolated opinion there to remodel halacha as they want. And of course the Ramban's concept of נבה"ת is well known. But neither are applicable here. Does the OU's refusal to give a hechsher to swordfish mean anything? The fact is the OU has adopted many different chumrahs their own mashgichim will admit (privately) are only chumras derabban the OU has taken as a policy matter, to protect its lucrative kosher supervision business. They believe they need to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which, in kashrus terms, means chumras built upon chumrahs. There is no reason in the world anyone else has to follow that (questionable) business decision.
Besides, 95% of of dinei kashrus is built on minhag, not ikkar hadin, and please don't tell us that "all of klal yisrael accepted" the same minhagim.
Could you explain why? I seems surprising that all of these great Rabbis were נבל ברשות התורה because they deemed swordfish to be Kosher. Maybe they honestly thought and think that it is?
Indulging in questionable foods?! Very reminiscent of the people in the desert getting punished with quail (dying with the flesh in their teeth) after asking for meat while they had Manna.
Very interesting. I must say, that gigantic hunk of meat attached to the dinosaur bone doesn't look too appetizing. It doesn't help that the guy is holding it barehanded, gravy dribbling down his fingers. I hope he enjoyed it himself.
Doesn’t look like a juicy seared dinosaur limb to me. It’s more like something Hashem might enjoy. It’s worthy of the same ריח ניחוח that appealed to Him. Looks absolutely scrumptious and I don’t even need a מזבח to impart similar mouth-watering succulence.
If that meat is not from a cow, goat or sheep it is not something Hashem would enjoy because even if kosher, cannot be brought as a korban so it's not deserving of the title ריח ניחוח. But nice try sounding frum.
Looks like roasted veal shank. I bet Hashem would enjoy the savory aroma just like I would. Does that mean that Hashem has olfactory epithelium which contains special receptors that are sensitive to odor molecules that travel through the air?
A roasted veal shank is not from an exotic creature, though I admit hard to find because nikkur is uncommon. As far as what Hashem would enjoy, all I know what it says in the Torah but I never thought he thinks the same as I do, but hey, maybe you know him better.
I am all in favor of these events, ever since they were started by Ari Zivotofsky back in the day. The OU also did, or perhaps still does, a similar event, too. Hatzlacha.
Yes, there will not only be a mechitza for disentangling men from women. A mechitza will be erected to separate meat from dairy. Which will beget further halachic quandaries: will we need to erect additional mechitzas in the separated meat and dairy sections in which men/women are additionally to be separated? Or will separate hours for the sexes suffice? And will we need an additional mechitza for the parve delicacies. Oh, the halachic permutations will be worthy of hours of pilpul cogitation.
As a poor chareidi with no money, would you consider doing a sweepstakes for a seat or two?
I don't learn in kollel - promise!
Am I the only one who finds a public gathering to eat exotic animals distasetful?
No more distasteful than a public gathering to eat non-exotic animals. Ever held a barbecue?
So think that the exotic part is that they are kosher. Swordfish is not an exotic animal.
Swordfish is not considered kosher:
https://www.google.com/search?q=is%20swordfish%20kosher&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&source=android-home&sxsrf=apwxedevgtl6ghskbrhub7kb7rnygny1oa:1687899739068&source=hp&ei=w06bzmjbaa3tptqpx5qq-ak&oq=is%20the%20swordfish%20ko&gs_lcp=chftb2jpbgutz3dzlxdpei1ocbabgaaybggaebyqhjigcaaqfhaemgyiabaweb4ycagaeiofeiydmggiabckbrcgaziicaaqiguqhgmybqghekabmguiircgatogclmbeiueogoiabadei8beoocogoilhadei8beoocogsiabcabbcxaxcdatolcc4qgaqqsqmqgwe6eqgueiaeeledeimbemcbenedoguiabcabdofcc4qgaq6cagueiaeeledogsilhcabbdharcvatolcaaqiguqsqmqgwe6cagaeiaeemkdoggiabckbrcsazoicaaqgaqqsqm6cagaeiaeejidogqiabadupehwmnfyjpoaafwahgagahfaygb2gqsaqm2ljeyaqcgaqgwara&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp&safe=active
A more complete scholarly treatment of swordfish here:
Based on the ruling of the renowned Sephardic posek, the Knesset haGedolah, Rabbi Chaim ben Yisrael Benvenisti (1603-73),1 who permitted “the fish with the sword,” halakhic decisors over three hundred of the last three hundred and fifty years, repeatedly and uniformly permitted some types of “swordfish.” The first time this was seriously challenged seems to have been by Rabbi Moshe David Tendler, Ph.D., in America in the 1950s. For reasons explored in this paper, his challenge was phenomenally successful. No one growing up Orthodox in the United States during the last forty years would have dreamed of considering the swordfish kosher. Indeed, currently, in every kosher fish list belonging to an Orthodox kashrut organization in America, the swordfish is categorized as non-kosher.
Rabbi Tendler’s successful campaign to overturn what was essentially a longstanding halakhic tradition developed into a protracted battle with both the Israeli Chief Rabbinate, in the persons of Chief Rabbi Isser Yehudah Unterman and Rabbi Shimon Efrati, the head of the Chief Rabbinate’s National Kashrut Division, and with the Conservative Movement in the United States."
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54694fa6e4b0eaec4530f99d/t/5a8dd6a4f9619a6fc230f2a0/1519244970946/Zivitofsky+-+Kashrus+of+the+swordfish.pdf
This is why this the feast is important. In fact Swordfish was considered kosher for at least hundreds and probably thousands of years.
"Swordfish is popularly believed to be non-kosher, due to it lacking scales. However, the Talmud lists swordfish (under an Aramaicized form of the Greek name Xiphias) as a kosher fish, due to its possessing scales when it is young (these are later absorbed into the skin). Jews ate swordfish for many centuries with the approval of major halachic authorities and to the protest of nobody at all. It was only beginning in the 1950s that some people, lacking relevant information, started to fear that swordfish was not kosher and revised the historic tradition. By framing it as an Orthodox vs. Conservative issue, they succeeded in removing it from the Orthodox lists of kosher fish. But the tide has started to shift, with kashrut authorities such as Rav Machpud of Bnei Brak having personally inspected swordfish and attesting it to be kosher."
https://jewishlink.news/the-feast-of-legends-from-the-sea/
That article while absolutely fascinating, most definitely falls under the category of נבל ברשות התורה.
I dont agree. There are indeed no shortage of reformers who look to find a daas yachid here or an isolated opinion there to remodel halacha as they want. And of course the Ramban's concept of נבה"ת is well known. But neither are applicable here. Does the OU's refusal to give a hechsher to swordfish mean anything? The fact is the OU has adopted many different chumrahs their own mashgichim will admit (privately) are only chumras derabban the OU has taken as a policy matter, to protect its lucrative kosher supervision business. They believe they need to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which, in kashrus terms, means chumras built upon chumrahs. There is no reason in the world anyone else has to follow that (questionable) business decision.
Besides, 95% of of dinei kashrus is built on minhag, not ikkar hadin, and please don't tell us that "all of klal yisrael accepted" the same minhagim.
Could you explain why? I seems surprising that all of these great Rabbis were נבל ברשות התורה because they deemed swordfish to be Kosher. Maybe they honestly thought and think that it is?
No
This whole feast reeks of -
נבל ברשות התורה!!!!!!!
Indulging in questionable foods?! Very reminiscent of the people in the desert getting punished with quail (dying with the flesh in their teeth) after asking for meat while they had Manna.
Wow. What kind of animal is that meat from? Giraffe?!
Very interesting. I must say, that gigantic hunk of meat attached to the dinosaur bone doesn't look too appetizing. It doesn't help that the guy is holding it barehanded, gravy dribbling down his fingers. I hope he enjoyed it himself.
@ HappyGo
Doesn’t look like a juicy seared dinosaur limb to me. It’s more like something Hashem might enjoy. It’s worthy of the same ריח ניחוח that appealed to Him. Looks absolutely scrumptious and I don’t even need a מזבח to impart similar mouth-watering succulence.
If that meat is not from a cow, goat or sheep it is not something Hashem would enjoy because even if kosher, cannot be brought as a korban so it's not deserving of the title ריח ניחוח. But nice try sounding frum.
Looks like roasted veal shank. I bet Hashem would enjoy the savory aroma just like I would. Does that mean that Hashem has olfactory epithelium which contains special receptors that are sensitive to odor molecules that travel through the air?
A roasted veal shank is not from an exotic creature, though I admit hard to find because nikkur is uncommon. As far as what Hashem would enjoy, all I know what it says in the Torah but I never thought he thinks the same as I do, but hey, maybe you know him better.
I am all in favor of these events, ever since they were started by Ari Zivotofsky back in the day. The OU also did, or perhaps still does, a similar event, too. Hatzlacha.
Will there be a mechitza?
I don't think there'll be a michitza. They don't taste very good.
Yes, there will not only be a mechitza for disentangling men from women. A mechitza will be erected to separate meat from dairy. Which will beget further halachic quandaries: will we need to erect additional mechitzas in the separated meat and dairy sections in which men/women are additionally to be separated? Or will separate hours for the sexes suffice? And will we need an additional mechitza for the parve delicacies. Oh, the halachic permutations will be worthy of hours of pilpul cogitation.
Mechitzah not needed for something not permanent, like a minyan at a wedding.