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BANdana's avatar

"And all this is aside from the strangeness of the mystical claim that permanent full-time Torah study of charedi men cloistered in the charedi yeshiva world, who are not teaching Torah to the nation, has any effect whatsoever on Jewish national survival"

People who believe in Divine Providence, who believe that G-d listens to our tefilos, who believe the many Chazals that Torah protects, shouldn't find this strange at all. If you represent the Dati Leumi public, it's easy to see why the chareidim consider them a different a religion, not Judaism. And it's easy to see why chareidim don't want to send their children to lose their Judaism in the army. If you really want chareidim to join the army, you should consider that this type of rhetoric has the opposite effect.

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Nachum's avatar

The whole point of charedism is that anything that doesn't come from the charedi world is suspect at best and more likely treyf. That explains their opposition to Zionism, science, secular knowledge, you name it.

And the closer things are to them, the *more* suspect and treyf it is. (This is a universal phenomenon, called "the narcissism of small differences," with obvious causes.) So religious Zionism is more treyf than secular Zionism; modern Orthodoxy is more treyf than Reform.

Long story short, no, any Torah learning not within their approved frameworks counts.

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