I was thinking of suggesting that Yeshivas that relocate to otef Gaza could continue to be exempt from the draft on the condition that they have no IDF security protection and no Iron Dome coverage
Truly it has been said that the modern existence of charedism is owed, ironically, to postwar liberalism (ironically because charedism is in theory opposed to liberalism), in at least two ways:
1. Acceptance of different lifestyles, multiculturalism, etc. makes it much easier to live as a charedi, much more so than in a world where people are urged to conform, in various ways, as much as possible; and
2. Governments throwing around money like drunken sailors, subsidizing non-working people, etc. means that charedim can naturally benefit as well, even more so if they apply their Yiddishe cups to this.
(I am proud to say that as someone who is generally negative about acceptance, multiculturalism, the welfare state, and out of control spending, I am not being hypocritical when I don't approve of their application to charedim. Charedim, of course, are supremely hypocritical here, I hope I don't have to spell it out.)
Anyway, to this we can add another feature of the current age: The belief that such spending is a force of nature, not to be interfered with. I remember the scandal when Rush Limbaugh exposed the concept of "baseline budgeting," which means that there is an assumption that spending will always go up, so a "cut" is really a raise, just not as much. Spending never goes down. We can also recall the Alaska congressman (a Republican, for the record: this is not a partisan problem) who, when some pet project of his was cut, went to the floor of the house and began screaming about how it was "MY MONEY! MYYYYY MONEY!" Of course, it was no such thing, but modern thought is that...it is. (And Israel, of course, has the same earmark issue in the form of "party funds.")
So when the UTJ people scream, they are, perhaps unknowingly, reflecting and even being influenced by this way of thinking. The government has given them money- money which, of course, was taken from other people by (as all laws are) implied threat of violence and even death, and thus it is *their* money and always must be.
And before the chuckleheads here start carrying on about the HaBima theater or universities or whatever: First, I don't think they should be getting tax money either. But even if I thought they *did*, that is apples and oranges in far more ways than one. I'll let other people say how so.
UTJ chairman Yitzhak Goldknopf declared that “the order given by the judges of the High Court of Justice, whose purpose is to seriously harm the Torah and Jewish people (!), here in the Land of Israel – the state of the Jewish people – is a sign of disgrace and contempt… The State of Israel arose to be a home for the Jewish people whose Torah is a Torah of truth… Without the Torah, we have no right to exist.”
Wait, so does that mean that the State of Israel is a good thing for Haredim and they support it now?
Any yeshiva closing for Bein haZmanim in wartime, even if it only empties out for first and last days of Pesach, cannot claim they really believe they are necessary. Could you picture if Tzahal let the vast majority of those deployed go home for a day of Yom Tov all at once? (Please don't really try to imagine the results, I don't mean to depress anyone.)
The CR, R David Lau, called for extra learning bein hazmanim -- but isn't that like sending the soldiers home telling them to keep an eye open while walking their neighborhoods? How do you decrease the Torah study at all if you really believed -- not just in your brain but in your gut -- that it helps keep the country safe? How do you lose the advantage of the context.
Charedi leadership response is as expected, but a rational thinker wouldn't celebrate chaos and polarization of society in the middle of a losing war against Hamas and a possible full scale war with Hizbollah. Charedim cannot be forced to serve, they will not show up for the draft in August.
The voice of reason has unsurprisingly lost again.
Everyone, just remember, the author of this article is a bar plugta of Rashi! Don't take his word lightly!
(Somehow, all the same people alive today who are on Rashi's level are happy to see this reduction of torah learning. I guess we should rethink our position, us small minded Charedim who don't come close to fathoming the greatness of the gr'a, let alone Rashi. We, who bow our heads in deference to the likes of the bach and maharshal and thousands of other greats who accepted the Zohar, somehow find ourselves on this side of the aisle regarding the gravity of this move.
Oh right, because we all drank the cool-aid and can't think past our noses, unlike these enlightened folks who know so much better!)
And Hashem is writing this comment to you, telling you that you have no idea what you are talking about, conflating political speech with a Charedi position.
This is an interesting development but if the financial repercussions are limited to Yeshiva stipends, I am skeptical it will have much, if any, effect. I would think yeshivas will simply increase donor fundraising to substitute for lost government funds. Proper financial incentivization would probably have to be quite a bit broader.
Please don't blame R Dessler and Michtav meiEliyahu... The belief in an inverse relationship between bitachon and needing hishtadlus predates him. For example, I just finished a short daily seder in Qunterus haBitachon by the Beis haLevi (R Yosef Dov haLevi Soloveitchik I), and the concept is one of the booklet's central themes! Even concludes saying that "adam la'amal yulad -- man was born to toil" but you have a choice between toiling in hishtadlus to make your money or toiling in learning. Choose to develop bitachon, so that you can do the latter. Even invokes "anu mashkimin veheim mashkimin... - we arise and they arise... we arise to get payment, and they arise without getting payment". (Yes, the BhL takes "sekhar" here to refer to payment, not or not only spiritual reward.)
It is a patent ruse to bring down the right wing government, with the idea that it will cause the chareidi parties to leave the coalition, and thereby force new elections - which the left wing inanely believes will return them to power.
It's amazing. So many comments here from charedi polemicists. And not one addressing the actual points that I made!
I was thinking of suggesting that Yeshivas that relocate to otef Gaza could continue to be exempt from the draft on the condition that they have no IDF security protection and no Iron Dome coverage
Truly it has been said that the modern existence of charedism is owed, ironically, to postwar liberalism (ironically because charedism is in theory opposed to liberalism), in at least two ways:
1. Acceptance of different lifestyles, multiculturalism, etc. makes it much easier to live as a charedi, much more so than in a world where people are urged to conform, in various ways, as much as possible; and
2. Governments throwing around money like drunken sailors, subsidizing non-working people, etc. means that charedim can naturally benefit as well, even more so if they apply their Yiddishe cups to this.
(I am proud to say that as someone who is generally negative about acceptance, multiculturalism, the welfare state, and out of control spending, I am not being hypocritical when I don't approve of their application to charedim. Charedim, of course, are supremely hypocritical here, I hope I don't have to spell it out.)
Anyway, to this we can add another feature of the current age: The belief that such spending is a force of nature, not to be interfered with. I remember the scandal when Rush Limbaugh exposed the concept of "baseline budgeting," which means that there is an assumption that spending will always go up, so a "cut" is really a raise, just not as much. Spending never goes down. We can also recall the Alaska congressman (a Republican, for the record: this is not a partisan problem) who, when some pet project of his was cut, went to the floor of the house and began screaming about how it was "MY MONEY! MYYYYY MONEY!" Of course, it was no such thing, but modern thought is that...it is. (And Israel, of course, has the same earmark issue in the form of "party funds.")
So when the UTJ people scream, they are, perhaps unknowingly, reflecting and even being influenced by this way of thinking. The government has given them money- money which, of course, was taken from other people by (as all laws are) implied threat of violence and even death, and thus it is *their* money and always must be.
And before the chuckleheads here start carrying on about the HaBima theater or universities or whatever: First, I don't think they should be getting tax money either. But even if I thought they *did*, that is apples and oranges in far more ways than one. I'll let other people say how so.
UTJ chairman Yitzhak Goldknopf declared that “the order given by the judges of the High Court of Justice, whose purpose is to seriously harm the Torah and Jewish people (!), here in the Land of Israel – the state of the Jewish people – is a sign of disgrace and contempt… The State of Israel arose to be a home for the Jewish people whose Torah is a Torah of truth… Without the Torah, we have no right to exist.”
Wait, so does that mean that the State of Israel is a good thing for Haredim and they support it now?
Any yeshiva closing for Bein haZmanim in wartime, even if it only empties out for first and last days of Pesach, cannot claim they really believe they are necessary. Could you picture if Tzahal let the vast majority of those deployed go home for a day of Yom Tov all at once? (Please don't really try to imagine the results, I don't mean to depress anyone.)
The CR, R David Lau, called for extra learning bein hazmanim -- but isn't that like sending the soldiers home telling them to keep an eye open while walking their neighborhoods? How do you decrease the Torah study at all if you really believed -- not just in your brain but in your gut -- that it helps keep the country safe? How do you lose the advantage of the context.
Charedi leadership response is as expected, but a rational thinker wouldn't celebrate chaos and polarization of society in the middle of a losing war against Hamas and a possible full scale war with Hizbollah. Charedim cannot be forced to serve, they will not show up for the draft in August.
The voice of reason has unsurprisingly lost again.
Your excitement and glee is contagious!
Everyone, just remember, the author of this article is a bar plugta of Rashi! Don't take his word lightly!
(Somehow, all the same people alive today who are on Rashi's level are happy to see this reduction of torah learning. I guess we should rethink our position, us small minded Charedim who don't come close to fathoming the greatness of the gr'a, let alone Rashi. We, who bow our heads in deference to the likes of the bach and maharshal and thousands of other greats who accepted the Zohar, somehow find ourselves on this side of the aisle regarding the gravity of this move.
Oh right, because we all drank the cool-aid and can't think past our noses, unlike these enlightened folks who know so much better!)
And Hashem is writing this comment to you, telling you that you have no idea what you are talking about, conflating political speech with a Charedi position.
Wouldn't the counter argument be that they must do their hishtadlus? They need to fight for their rights but they will ultimately accept it?
This is an interesting development but if the financial repercussions are limited to Yeshiva stipends, I am skeptical it will have much, if any, effect. I would think yeshivas will simply increase donor fundraising to substitute for lost government funds. Proper financial incentivization would probably have to be quite a bit broader.
Please don't blame R Dessler and Michtav meiEliyahu... The belief in an inverse relationship between bitachon and needing hishtadlus predates him. For example, I just finished a short daily seder in Qunterus haBitachon by the Beis haLevi (R Yosef Dov haLevi Soloveitchik I), and the concept is one of the booklet's central themes! Even concludes saying that "adam la'amal yulad -- man was born to toil" but you have a choice between toiling in hishtadlus to make your money or toiling in learning. Choose to develop bitachon, so that you can do the latter. Even invokes "anu mashkimin veheim mashkimin... - we arise and they arise... we arise to get payment, and they arise without getting payment". (Yes, the BhL takes "sekhar" here to refer to payment, not or not only spiritual reward.)
It is a patent ruse to bring down the right wing government, with the idea that it will cause the chareidi parties to leave the coalition, and thereby force new elections - which the left wing inanely believes will return them to power.