So basically, you find any video in which chareidim dress like chareidim to be offensive, as the very existence of chareidim offends you because of their crimes. You sound very reasonable and balanced.
The problem is the projection of a message that charedim are equally contributing to the war, when they are actually not doing anything and making everyone else bear a growing burden. Why is it so hard for you to understand why people have a problem with that?
That’s the problem with religious beliefs. Many are like mephitic bodily emissions but the Chareidi True Believer believes that only his doesn’t stink.
Let's save everyone a lot of time and quote his conclusion, and people can decide whether this person's opinion has any merit:
"So to sum up, there are those who are convinced that the state as an institution is holy, that fighting to defend it is a milchemet mitzvah, and that the need to do so takes precedence over the short term, to engaging in Clal yisroel's most meaningful activity, which is dedicated Torah study. Everyone respects the heroism and dedication that these people are demonstrating during the current war. Others, myself included, believe that their underlying premise is mistaken. The state as an institution is not holy, it's not even particularly Jewish. The number one thing that anyone can do to further the Jewish ideal, is to engage in intense and dedicated Torah study, provided that one has the opportunity and the will to do so. But for those who don't have the opportunity or will to engage in dedicated Torah learning, and instead find themselves engaged in defending the Jewish people (as opposed to the state), they too are performing a great mitzvah, provided that they can do so without harming their overall dedication to their relationship with God."
What is your point? If his conclusion aligns with what charedim believe then his opinion can't have any merit? He clearly identifies as charedi and we know you think nothing charedim say ever has any merit, so why not just say "He's charedi so his opinion has no merit." Or are you doubting his claim of being in the IDF?
We are proud of you for speaking truth to power. Unfortunately, this is an historically similar event to rabbinic positions prior to World War II in Europe.
There is no incompatibility of being both a soldier and a Talmid Khacham.
The video clip does not promote Achdut because it comes from a community that does not educate their youth to do what is depicted-- combine Yeshiva learning and army service.
So for them, it is nothing more than a Purim costume, good for only one day of the year.
Nevertheless, some of the commentators here should dislike it for a different reason- the lyrics ["אין לנו עוד מדינה" ] to the song emphasize the significance of the State of Israel
It is talking to two sides of the table where each has a problem with the other and saying that both roles are equally important, that everyone should appreciate everyone else. Sounds pretty nice to me...
Well, they do have a good point at least in one respect. One of the main points of chareidism is to increase the divide, to separate from the secularists. So I do wonder about the value of chareidim promoting "achdus" with seculars, it seems like an oxymoron.
Not that they should be hyperventilating about a cute purim video, their manic obsession is on them.
You know what the worst thing about that Pashkvil is? That it's signed by Rabbis from the North African, Asia Minor and Middle Eastern Jewish communities. Yes, the once normal rabbinical leadership of these communities have now been brainwashed and infected by the diseased "hashkafa" of the spiritual descendants of the Polish, Russian and Lithuanian communal leader and rabbinical supporters of the Khappers who ensured that only the orphans and the children of the poor and the widows would be forced into the Czar's army at age 12 (unless their mothers were able to marry them off younger than that or able to gather up the strength to chop off their own child's trigger finger - something that Fishman guy would only say he'd do, but wouldn't actually do!)
"Now, some people - generally those in communities that do not send their children to the army - see that as a correct and valuable message. But others - especially those in communities that do send their children to the army - see it as wrong, dangerous, and offensive."
It us unfair to omit the fact that some DL do see it as a valuable message, as shown by True Settler in his comments below and here:
Huh? We can certainly accept that other people have different views. Sometimes these views are not harmful and there can still be achdus, but sometimes these views translate into anti-achdus. Do you have achdus with Jewish haters of Israel who support Hamas, or with Neturei Karta?
Great point. People who are wrong and therefore harmful should not be sided with. That would not be anti achdus. But what if you're while worldview is if and the chareidim are right?
Once again, you're hiding behind gotcha points whole evading the main and only issue - is torah of utmost importance?
I'm pretty sure that had Germany not declared war on the USA on December 11, 1941, none of those other politicians would have called for a declaration of war against Germany, and would have been perfectly fine with keeping the USA in the Pacific theater only. Remember - the USSR and Japan kept to their non-aggression treaty until early August 1945. Only in the last few days of the Pacific war did the USSR attack Japanese territory.
The Chazon Ish make this point that the first step to justice is figuring out who is in the right and who is in the wrong only then can we prosecute the wrongdoers.
אני חושב שצריך לחוקק חוק שמגייסים חרדים, ושכל חרדי יתפלל שלא יגייסו אותו. אם התפילה שלו נענית, אחלה. אם התפילה שלו לא נענית, הוא כנראה לא כזה טוב בלהתפלל ולכן גם ככה אפשר לשלוח אותו לצבא.
Thanks for sharing those pics.
Love the costume!
So basically, you find any video in which chareidim dress like chareidim to be offensive, as the very existence of chareidim offends you because of their crimes. You sound very reasonable and balanced.
The problem is the projection of a message that charedim are equally contributing to the war, when they are actually not doing anything and making everyone else bear a growing burden. Why is it so hard for you to understand why people have a problem with that?
Because you don't need to hyperanalyze every cute purim video, you nutcase.
Hey dear sir, it seems like you doubt that yeshivos contribute to the war effort! This should set you straight! Enjoy!
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/does-torah-protect
So let's get down to the facts: are the Charedim wrong in their belief? If yes, the haters are justified. But if not, well then...
The Haredim are wrong in their belief.
That’s the problem with religious beliefs. Many are like mephitic bodily emissions but the Chareidi True Believer believes that only his doesn’t stink.
It's only a problem if they are wrong.
@Jerry,
But what if every religious believer is not wrong. Is that possible?
Whereas your opinion is really the only that is right.
How dare people think their opinion is correct? That privilege is mine, and mine alone.
@Zundel,
But maybe all religious believers are wrong.
O!!! My bad!!! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
R. Slifkin doesn't. I do.
Hey, this is just hot off the press!
A Soldier's Perspective On Drafting Yeshiva Students
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-soldiers-perspective-on-drafting
Let's save everyone a lot of time and quote his conclusion, and people can decide whether this person's opinion has any merit:
"So to sum up, there are those who are convinced that the state as an institution is holy, that fighting to defend it is a milchemet mitzvah, and that the need to do so takes precedence over the short term, to engaging in Clal yisroel's most meaningful activity, which is dedicated Torah study. Everyone respects the heroism and dedication that these people are demonstrating during the current war. Others, myself included, believe that their underlying premise is mistaken. The state as an institution is not holy, it's not even particularly Jewish. The number one thing that anyone can do to further the Jewish ideal, is to engage in intense and dedicated Torah study, provided that one has the opportunity and the will to do so. But for those who don't have the opportunity or will to engage in dedicated Torah learning, and instead find themselves engaged in defending the Jewish people (as opposed to the state), they too are performing a great mitzvah, provided that they can do so without harming their overall dedication to their relationship with God."
Let's save everybody lots of time and paraphrase Slifkin's conclusion from 99% of his blog posts:
"I no like my enemies. They ewie stinky people. Bad bad enemies"
There, you guys can go home now.
What does the State as an institution not being holy have to do with self-defense?
He explains if you bother to read it!
Aha. So maybe saving everyone time and just quoting the conclusion was a dumb idea.
Pretty revealing on how the Rabbi Dr. does most of his scholarship though.
Go read the whole thing if you'd like to make an intelligent assessment.
I'm not your TA, I don't read badly written, poorly thought-out, unedited prose now unless I get paid for it.
That's fine, but don't bother criticizing him then, like Avi here.
It's a good essay, you should read it before criticizing
What is your point? If his conclusion aligns with what charedim believe then his opinion can't have any merit? He clearly identifies as charedi and we know you think nothing charedim say ever has any merit, so why not just say "He's charedi so his opinion has no merit." Or are you doubting his claim of being in the IDF?
He's not a very clear writer.
What did you expect from someone with a hareidi secular education? College level discourse and literary skills?
An example of David Ilan's fine secular education, college level discourse, and literary skills!
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/what-you-can-do-6ea/comment/41656444
Does this guy say Hallel on Chanukah and light the candles with a bracha?
We are proud of you for speaking truth to power. Unfortunately, this is an historically similar event to rabbinic positions prior to World War II in Europe.
There is no incompatibility of being both a soldier and a Talmid Khacham.
That's right, Natan speaks truth to power!
Disa.... are you still on the Space Coast in Florida?
It takes a special person to get so rallied up as to write two (sic!) posts about a Purim costume that doesn't bother most people.
Special indeed
The video clip does not promote Achdut because it comes from a community that does not educate their youth to do what is depicted-- combine Yeshiva learning and army service.
So for them, it is nothing more than a Purim costume, good for only one day of the year.
Nevertheless, some of the commentators here should dislike it for a different reason- the lyrics ["אין לנו עוד מדינה" ] to the song emphasize the significance of the State of Israel
It is talking to two sides of the table where each has a problem with the other and saying that both roles are equally important, that everyone should appreciate everyone else. Sounds pretty nice to me...
It probably is "nice" to have other familes' sons and daughters do the fighting and dying on your behalf.
I think appreciating each other is a good step in the right direction tho. Lessening the divide is positive.
Well, they do have a good point at least in one respect. One of the main points of chareidism is to increase the divide, to separate from the secularists. So I do wonder about the value of chareidim promoting "achdus" with seculars, it seems like an oxymoron.
Not that they should be hyperventilating about a cute purim video, their manic obsession is on them.
Well that's just reactionary but ya
You know what the worst thing about that Pashkvil is? That it's signed by Rabbis from the North African, Asia Minor and Middle Eastern Jewish communities. Yes, the once normal rabbinical leadership of these communities have now been brainwashed and infected by the diseased "hashkafa" of the spiritual descendants of the Polish, Russian and Lithuanian communal leader and rabbinical supporters of the Khappers who ensured that only the orphans and the children of the poor and the widows would be forced into the Czar's army at age 12 (unless their mothers were able to marry them off younger than that or able to gather up the strength to chop off their own child's trigger finger - something that Fishman guy would only say he'd do, but wouldn't actually do!)
Could not have written this post better myself!!
Half a Doctor plus Half a Rabbi equals....
"Now, some people - generally those in communities that do not send their children to the army - see that as a correct and valuable message. But others - especially those in communities that do send their children to the army - see it as wrong, dangerous, and offensive."
It us unfair to omit the fact that some DL do see it as a valuable message, as shown by True Settler in his comments below and here:
https://open.substack.com/pub/rationalistjudaism/p/its-not-beautiful-its-offensive?r=3199tv&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=52075273
And the soldier on Irrationalist Modoxism...
It's not achdus only cuz you guys can't accept that other people have different views than yourself. That's on you, not on us.
Huh? We can certainly accept that other people have different views. Sometimes these views are not harmful and there can still be achdus, but sometimes these views translate into anti-achdus. Do you have achdus with Jewish haters of Israel who support Hamas, or with Neturei Karta?
Great point. People who are wrong and therefore harmful should not be sided with. That would not be anti achdus. But what if you're while worldview is if and the chareidim are right?
Once again, you're hiding behind gotcha points whole evading the main and only issue - is torah of utmost importance?
No one is saying there shouldn't be an IDF. Let's not straw man our position and knock it down thinking you knocked down our actual position
K not "no one." Almost all the people here are on the same page. Let's argue one thing at a time.
I'm pretty sure that had Germany not declared war on the USA on December 11, 1941, none of those other politicians would have called for a declaration of war against Germany, and would have been perfectly fine with keeping the USA in the Pacific theater only. Remember - the USSR and Japan kept to their non-aggression treaty until early August 1945. Only in the last few days of the Pacific war did the USSR attack Japanese territory.
My above reply answers your point
The Chazon Ish make this point that the first step to justice is figuring out who is in the right and who is in the wrong only then can we prosecute the wrongdoers.
I agree to everything you just said in that comment
I wonder how many kids will wear a version of this as a Purim costume.
Great suggestion here:
אני חושב שצריך לחוקק חוק שמגייסים חרדים, ושכל חרדי יתפלל שלא יגייסו אותו. אם התפילה שלו נענית, אחלה. אם התפילה שלו לא נענית, הוא כנראה לא כזה טוב בלהתפלל ולכן גם ככה אפשר לשלוח אותו לצבא.
https://twitter.com/MBlumenblat/status/1771871406411673941
Maybe not enough, but nice to hear.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2270985/harav-zilberstein-my-rebbe-didnt-sing-zemiros-when-his-neighbors-were-on-the-battlefront.html
"The video clip of the adorable charedi kids dressed as half yeshiva student, half soldier has gone viral. "
So much for the video. Have the costumes become a best seller?
Respect and love other types of Jews