I'm linking to an extremely relevant post, written almost a year ago. Natan's autist-like "missing the joke" is part of a larger pattern of how he understands people.
I visited this blog years ago before the hordes of haters descend upon this blog to mock and argue with the blog host
It's actually extremely bizarre behaviour, and suggests that either (a) their Torah learning is not providing enough סיפוק, or (b) the absence of media, netflix and goyishe books means they are starved of entertainment and come here instead for it
Dummy, if someone has a blog where all he does is rage like a maniac about one specific community, you can expect them to fight back. That you call them haters, yet treat Doctor Nathan as some peaceloving snowman, is an everlasting testament to the thickness of your skull.
"It's actually extremely bizarre behaviour, and suggests that either (a) their Torah learning is not providing enough סיפוק, or (b) the absence of media, netflix and goyishe books means they are starved of entertainment and come here instead for it"
I can only speak for myself. (I don't have netflix, but I have plenty of goyishe books.) I visited and occasionally commented on this blog in the old format. I said roughly the same things I say now. Dr Slifkin writes things which I find extremely objectionable about people and communities I deeply respect. I respond in kind. No one forces him to have an open comments section on Substack. But since he occasionally crows about what a game changer the internet is and how it removes the gatekeepers, [1] what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
[1] See e.g. here: https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-equalizer "But then came Facebook! On Friday, someone directed me to Rabbi Menken's Facebook page, where he had posted his article. Now, Facebook works differently from Cross-Currents. There is no possibility of moderating comments on Facebook. Facebook is the great equalizer. "
It's down to his chareidi education. He was infantilized, and is justifiable bitter. But he remains infantilized. Rabbi, is this what you want to be remembered for? Is this your life's work? Is this your calling from God?
Charles, this perennial chestnut from the moshav leitzim in the corner of the shul is REALLY boring. Both speculating that your opponent "skipped their meds" or "drank Kool-Aid" is unimaginative "humor" stuck in 7th grade.
I beg u, if u need to disagree strongly with some1, please hire a better writer! I wish u could step outside yourself and see how boring these stale jokes r!
I actually can step outside myself, at least when reminded. And my kids tell me my jokes aren't funny. But at least this comment wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant in earnest and in the hope that it would help. Read my recent comments. I never wrote anything about skipping meds, even with my impaired sense of humor I don't see skipping meds as funny; that's a serious matter. And I never wrote anything about drinking Kool Aid. That too, if you remember the origin of the expression, is a tragic matter. I can't afford to hire a writer. When I encountered this blog I valued it. I recently started seeing it again and it was transformed. At first I was convinced and started being upset that [some] chareidim were not serving their communities well and not helping the Klal. But then it was essentially the same post everyday with almost no interaction between the Rabbi and his critics. I took him for a hater and [tried] to poke fun. Then I saw that it wasn't hate, it was obsession, what appeared to this layperson to be an extreme and, to the author, a dangerous and self destructive obsession. I still value the Rabbi- I've explained why elsewhere, and it's sad to see a potentially great rabbi, with more accomlishemnts than most could achieve in three lifetimes, spiraling down. These things don't usually self correct. I carry no torch for the ultra orthodox and also have nothing against them. They are just people trying to put food on the table and pay their rent like everyone else. They didn't choose this way of life, it was imposed on them. I now understand that the Rabbi was attacked and defamed and I assume traumatized. That too is a very serious matter especially if left untreated. So long as the Rabbi remains attached, negative or positive, to the people that hurt him, the trauma is unlikely to recede. I've said what I felt I should already. If you are his friend, consider doing him a true chesed. I will try not to make jokes in general. I don't talk in shul - when I attend- and if I did, no-one would respond.
Also worth noting the ugliness of the phrase "like a bullet in an Arab’s head". Like a bullet in a Hamas member's head, yes I'm in favor. But many Arabs (the exact proportion is irrelevant as long as it's more than zero) oppose Hamas, or else are children too young to have an opinion. They don't deserve a bullet in the head.
Well, that better end some day, Vrumster. Since there r 1/2 billion "Arabs" in the world, as opposed to 16 M Jews, we had better find a way to make some permanent peace with them ASAP.
Charles, we do not need nobody to "root for us." Of course, Saudi-backed nations root against Iran, not FOR Israel. That's why SA invested $2B into the paws of incompetent investor money-burner Jared Kushner.
Yes, of course oppressed Muslim poor r ripe for anti-Israel propaganda. That's just human nature.
I agree. Hamas are Arabs, as other enemies of Israel (but not Iran, which is not an Arab country). But Israel also have good relations with some Arab countries, there are Israeli Arabs fighting in Gaza as soldiers of the Tzavah (like the druzim), Israeli Arabs were killed in October 7th, Israeli Arabs saved Jews during October 7th, Israeli Arabs are kept as hostages by Hamas. The reality is complex.
It's funny because no one actually believes it works that way. Rather, tefillos enter the tefillos metasphere realm where they are directed by malachim to where they need to go. the bullets are a mashal, not how chareidim actually see reality.
(Note that this is not my understanding of tefillah, but merely the common litvish one. Breslov has an entirely different perception.)
is that your issue? one can daven for a specific thing, sure. but when this kid asked if he can target a specific arab he was thinking about the moshol very vividly so it was adorable
Does Rabbi Slifkin believe in the efficacy of prayer? Why do I suspect he doesn't? And what in the world is rational religion? Religions are a relief from rationality.
I don't think the Rabbi is being so cynical, which I don't get the impression is his style rather I believe is earnestly questioning. I hope the Rabbi found the answer from the many comments and us satisfied.
If the kid approached Rabbi Feldman and said, "I happen to know of a Hamas terrorist by the name of Mohammed, can I daven for him to die?", Rabbi Feldman may have found that adorable, but not merely as comical as the kid imagining that every kappitel Tehillim is a real bullet.
"....group of students about how saying a chapter of Tehillim is like firing a bullet, one of them came over to him and asked, “Can I choose which Arab to kill?”
Where in the question do you see the kid believed that each kappital was a real bullet?
You are literally just adding in words to make what happened palatable.
The laughter was an uncontrolled immediate response to the fact that it's all just talking the talk and he and everybody else knows it.
It's the samw sort of nervous reaction friends of mine received when they asked various rabbonim who wax lyrical about emunoh and bitachon and therefor not going to college vis-a-vis the yeshivish insistence on finding a spouse from a wealthy family (including the children of the said rabbis themselves).
Again. If you are a lamdan, you should be able to (in yeshivish) bring a clear geschmaker chiluk between tehillim to heal avraham bas soroh, and to kill achmed bas abdullah. Tzvei dinnim efsher?
True, and we also pray 3 times a day for all of Am Yisroel to be healed. Praying for individual sick people is something people do when they have an emotional connection with someone and they specifically want that person to be healed. Whereas it would be slightly odd to have a negative emotional connection with a specific terrorist he wanted killed. That's why it's a funny question. But I would agree if someone would, for whatever reason, have a negative emotional connection with a specific terrorist, he can absolutely pray for that one to be killed.
Anyway, I've noticed you're always evasive on your opinion on the effectiveness of prayer. Instead of playing "gotcha" and assuming hypocrisies, I think it would be more productive if you just came out and told us your opinion on it.
Even in that first link in that comment though, he prefaces by saying he won't go in depth about it, so I'd still want a more detailed explanation, with sources.
To discuss the links you posted:
First, in the first link of that comment, Rabbi Slifkin presents a false dichotomy between the supposed "rationalist" and "mystical" schools of thought, respectively: 1. Intercessory prayer is about a relationship with Hashem, or 2. It is about manipulating metaphysical forces.
This is preposterous. So there's no one that says intercessory prayer is about asking Hashem to help us (which goes hand in hand with a relationship, and isn't mutually exclusive)? That's the mainstream opinion!
Second, if Rabbi Slifkin does not believe prayer is effective, then that certainly will influence his opinions on the effort people are putting into this war. He should at the very least disclose this bias every time he lectures people on the topic.
Charles, could u please explain your question? I have no idea what u r asking. "Larger" in what way? Is there a supernatural being that consciously controls and directs my life, choices, successes, and failures? No, most certainly not!
I think I was asking the rabbi and at this point I would not ask . It was discourteous . In any event I wasn’t talking about religion exclusively. My mother told me two groups had higher survival rates in the camps , chasidim and communists. They both believed in something beyond themselves . I think that such a belief is necessary for both an individual to thrive. Rome started its ultimate degradation when the leaders and people stopped honoring the gods. I am a religious man , often lapsing , but I don’t believe anyone but me controls my choices wins and losses but me, in interface with God
Many of the rishonim especially the philosophic ones have a very difficult with tefila. They point out that one of the attributes of hashem is that he is unchanging so how can our tefilos change gods decisions? They work very hard on this question and the answer is not so simple. Nowadays most people ignore these questions but the questions are real. See http://ajewwithquestions.blogspot.com/2017/02/tefilladavening.html
what's the breslov perception, might i ask? reb nachman based his ideas on the zohar, and the zohar (in teruma?) is quite clear about these malachim and things...
Rebbe Nachman holds that tefilla, especially hisbodedus has a real actual effect. Not that it goes to the malachsphere, but with enough tefilla you will get what you want. (I've seen this in my own life). He doesn't like the apologetics of redirected tefillos. If it isn't working, just do more.
You are not explaining how you can simultaneously bash chareidim for not davening and saying tehhilim for the IDF and then mocking the effectiveness of it.
Please consider that if so many people think you are off, you might be. People in your situation, obsessed with a woman, obsessed with fear of disease, obsessed in your case, with past slights, are always the last to know it. You are immensely talented, Are you absolutely certain that you are focusing this God given gift on productive activity? If you are certain, does that make you right? Cromwell put it best: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, to think it possible you may be mistaken.."
And you unlike the rest of us, do not suffer from confirmation bias. I am not chareidi and I see a problem here with emotional health. Do you get a charge out of people liking your posts? A dopamine hit? Start there. Do your own research. It's a crying shame, most people would give and arm and a leg to have your talent drive and ambition. Your work with children and animals is amazing. Why are you flushing yourself down the toilet. Your charedi enemies don't care about you and you won't gain any converts. Why do you give these people so much attention. Is there a 1% chance that it's not your highest and best use?
But the problem is that the people who you are talking about are chareidim. You are making statements about what they "really" feel, "really" believe. And you are refusing to consider that you may be wrong, despite the deluge of chareidim telling you what their own communities actually feel and believe. So the deluge of non chareidim appreciating these articles, of which for some reason only a precious few are willing to post as public comments, are irrelevant to that point.
It's cute/funny for the same reason that if someone said 'time is money' and a kid asked if he could have 'change of an hour' it would be. No one thinks that we should drop literal sifrei tehillim on Hamas.
Seriously, you need to get out more. Maybe go to a (charedi-free) savannah and cook yourself a biblical feast or something.
He thought windmills were his enemies so he attacked windmills with his lance. It was all a delusion, but he thought it was this what his life mission.
Rabbi, with honest respect, people here that are following your blog did it because they like you . You write novel and fascinating stuff. Your analyses even outside of your fields of expertise are almost always spot on. Including the stuff about some Chatedim, although not being very familiar with Chareideism I can’t be sure. We are your fans. And we are concerned about you. In my short experience you went to writing novel thoughts about a variety of interesting topics to writing about only one ( and a pretty boring one at that ) topic, chareidim. So you are losing fans. But that’s not the issue, looking from the outside Which is all we can do, it seems - this would apply to anybody not just you- it seems you are stuck . I guess the behavior you describe is so abhorrent to you that you feel compelled to hammer at each new manifestation. Why don’t we just stipulate that they lack ahavas Yisrael and a sense of responsibility. I don’t but that , but let’s assume it I’m evidence. But even given that , it looks like something else is going on that isn’t life enhancing. Like an unhealthy and unshakable obsession. Or like a person consumed with ( maybe justified) hate. Either of those is unlikely to remit without some intervention. Is it possible for you to discuss this with a senior rabbi you respect ? Or even a rabbi/emotional health professional? It surely wouldn’t hurt . And although I have no doubt you are intellectually a super genius are you an emotional genius ? If you talk with someone wise there is a chance you might learn something important about your own growth. I don’t want to presume, but this looks like a public breakdown . Respectfully, Charles
"I would like to introduce another example: prayer. This is a complex topic, but without getting into too much detail here, we can say as follows: According to the rationalist Rishonim, prayer is solely about our relationship with God. According to the mystical approach, on the other hand, prayer is primarily about manipulating various metaphysical energies, with a corresponding effect on the material world."
“In fact, it seems that according to Rambam, while petitionary prayer is of great religious importance, it does not actually serve to attain the object of one's requests.”
that's super clear. chazal say that Hashem's response actually is based on the person's connection with the tefila. it's a relationship between us and Him and when we go and meet Him, He comes and greets us as per our efforts. so if we have been doing the right things and learning and being nice to people, the tefilos will be more accepted. (actually, come to think of it, one maareh makom is in this past week's parsha where yaakov's tefilos were accepted right away because he had just spent 14 years perfectly connected to his avodas Hashem)
it's funny because it's cute. it's a moshol of course, even when expressed to adults. we all get how bullets are effective. so we use that as a moshol to the effectiveness of tefilla and torah. and it gets the message across in a strong way. but we also know that we don't understand the exact mehalech Hashem uses and how this affects this and how that affects the other thing. be we are maamin be'emunah sheleima that this is how Hashem runs the world. when the kid takes it literally it's very cute;)
So it really means that you can,'t control what happens in the world. Just a General prayer for help which may or may not occur.It's up to G-d if,how
,when, etc...So prayer is affective but may not help.
It is an important tool.The problem is a that there is no emphasis on the need for action,effort as much sspossible to accomplish your goals.Of course without prayer you may not succeed.But, אין סומכים עליך הנס.A false prophesy of imaginary dreams fired by an agenda that seeks to further praiseworthy goals.
Absolutely with all my heart? It's very simple .I believe man must conduct himself according to the natural order,Nature. The same G-d that creates and activates the world continuously revealed Himself to us as the G+d who is punished or rewarded
He tells us to pray to Him for our success.They go together. But אין סומכים על הנס. This means man has to care for himself.This is basic.This is the approach of the Rambam. G-d's punishment sometimes is to leave us to suffer the results of the inadequacy of our human efforts and sometimes He rewards is by helping is succeed despite our poor and inadequate efforts. ושמרתם את נפשותכםן is not just medical. It's a general approach.
If it's funny because it's cute that the kid is actually buying the story, the whole speech was pointless. It's either real as they claim or not real. And the rabbi laughing bends to the latter.
From your take you're clearly an outsider who can't grasp the nuances of what happened here. Not a negative, only that you can't reinterpret things you don't get. I'm an insider and I actually get what was happening. I know what this rabbi was saying cuz I'm part of his broader community. We talk like this all the time and we all get it. You're twisting his words, perhaps unintentionally, but that's the fact of the matter.
Read happy's old article "it's all Greek to me", or something like that. We speak different languages. "Every kapittel is like a bullet" is trying to bring out the point. The more Torah, tefillah, and zechusim there are, the stronger protection that Klal Yisroel has.
It's called double think. You can pretend you believe and not exactly believe. It's useful as the party line.,especially for kids and those who don't know better.You yourself begin to sort of believe it. It helps not to face the reality.It helps one believe that he believes in it. The whole idea off insiders and outsiders is a ploy to. escape discussion and facing reality,that you need to work and that you should serve in the army etc..
Yet 'torah protects' is never explained as merely trying to 'bring out a point'. It's brought ad nauseum to provide a serious explanation as to why benei torah provide real protection (apparently not for beiter or kiryat seifer though, that require extra protection at times of high alert).
Just as well as it worked in the pogroms, the destruction of the second Temple, the prevention of all those expulsions and mass killings, the Inquisition, the slaughters of Jews by Arabs before Independence, and so many more. And no, shooting the arrows and then rhetorically drawing circles around them afterwards doesn't count.
R' Avigdor Miller addresses that at length. Which is exactly my point. Also, according to R' Dovid Soloveitchik who was a first-hand eyewitness, at least where he was, there wasn't all that much tefillah going on there at all.
There was a blogger many years ago with a slifkin last name who made up the concept "machshava cholent" how all the different strands of machshava blend into one big mush in the average persons head. This feels similar.
Absent everything else wrong with this, the fact the R’ Feldman talks so blithely about Torah being a “bullet in an Arab’s head” (incidentally, not a “terrorist”, not a “Hamas fighter”, not even a “Palestinian”, but rather a generic Arab) and that these folks laugh like leitzim at the idea of a young student asking bloodthirstily “Can I choose which Arab to kill?” reflects a bloodlust and disregard for human life that is frankly horrifying.
We should be distressed by the fact that our soldiers are forced to kill in defense of our people and our land, not excited by it. And the notion that Torah itself (דרכיה דרכי נעם וכל נתיבותיה שלום) would be valorized as a weapon for killing leaves me shaking my head.
2. He didn’t say the sweet little talmid specified “terrorists” in his bloodlust.
3. None of that matters in the slightest. As I made eminently clear in my comment, it’s the bloodlust that should horrify us: of R’ Feldman, of the talmid, and of all who would treat such a thing as a laughing matter.
Tle laughing about the tehillim killing a specific Arab is, as you indicate, quite telling. The Haredi world spends vast amounts of time, energy, and money glorifying what they do and denigrating what everyone else in the world does. I assume they do this because, if one stops to think about it, they do so very little, and everyone else does so much, most of which - modern medicine, the entire economic system, communications, transportation, government, architecture, everything , really - the Haredi community is happy to make use of without contributing anything, so they denigrate it all so as to not see admit how parasitic their day to day lives are. So, the whole "learning is fighting" thing is really a kind of joke - these shgotzim are fighting and dying, we, as with most everything else, don't bother to get involved, and, as justification, we'll pretend that we are "really" doing the job of fighting the war. Not so deep down inside, close to the surface, in fact, they know it's just baloney, part of their self justifying superstructure, so when someone seems to take it seriously, literally, they, quite appropriately, laugh.
Yes felix...you got it. The one who really helps is you.
The amount of time you spend glued to your TV does much more than praying and learning. If only you could watch several channels at once. Then moshiach would have come already.
It was funny bc it doesnt really mean that a tehillim equals a bullet. But that with each good deed done for the sake of the soldiers, the soldiers have more merit to win the war.
You know, I was waiting for the train just now and a young woman got off the elevator to the platform. She clearly has some sort of severe spinal deformity or something similar, and could only walk, haltingly, with the aid of a wheeled walker frame.
She was in uniform.
Not apparently religious, either.
I have no doubt she could have gotten an instant exemption from all service, and no one would have held it against her at all.
And she's hardly the only one. The IDF has entire units of soldiers with disabilities, severe autism, even Down's Syndrome.
And then I thought of Schreiber's line- which anyone who's been paying attention at all the last month already knew was completely untrue- that absent a draft, only "perhaps a few crazy mizrochniks [sic*]" would serve. (This is of course projection, as the main body of refusees would be *his* people.) How ugly.
*Mizrachi ceased to exist in 1956, but that's typical of these types.
Maybe if you were a little more in touch with the history of the last 50 years, you would know that every one of those wars ended when the international community forced Israel to stop fighting because too many Arab human shields were dying, not because Israel had any lack of success in military terms.
You don't get to say 'we would have won if only X factor had been different'. The reality in the world we actually live in that the IDF lost all these wars. The logical response to the exact same dynamic playing out over an over again is to develop a new military strategy that is less reliant on aerial bombardment. This is how the early Zionists responded to failure. But ever since Begin came to power, Zionism has become about uncritical reverence for the incompetent state institutions combined with moaning about how the world isn't fair. The first step to solving your problem is admitting you have one.
Sounds like you didn't actually read my comment. Not only were you unfamiliar with the degree to which Israeli actions are constrained by international politics, but you didn't seem to understand it even after I explained it explicitly. Instead you made a novice level suggestion ("develop a new military strategy that is less reliant on aerial bombardment") which wouldn't help with the international politics and might actually make them worse, and spun a psychological fairy tale around it.
Here's a tip that will help you in life, if you think you are one step ahead in an argument, and you aren't arguing with a dumb Muslim, it is almost certain you are actually 10 steps behind.
Of course I am aware of the international context. Every time hostilities break out, Israel pursues a strategy based on (a) blowing up lots of stuff and (b) sending out the hasbarists to ramble on about human shields. Inevitably, since they achieve nothing and they kill too many civilians, international pressure means they have to stop.
However, this time you actually finally got your wish. Instead of moaning that 'we totally would have won THIS time if we had just been allowed to kill more civilians' you've taken down 13,000 in under 2 months. What does the IDF have to show for it? Well, they rescued ... 1 hostage, and they killed .... 1 senior Hamas comamnder, and they 'degraded' 15 out of 40 Hamas units. Or, in other words, they achieved nothing, again. And so they gave into another humiliating hostage deal, on the grounds that it's not as outlandishly humiliating as previous versions.
The IDF knows what the situation is, diplomatically and militarily. They have had decades and all the money in the world to work on a better strategy, but they have squat. And they can't even defend the border. They are just crap. And it is people like you who enable them to continue being crap. So, go ahead, salute the flag like a dumb goy and see how far it gets you.
Honestly, nationalism is just not good for people's cognitive functioning. Even basic reading comprehension goes to pot. Where did I 'attack Israel for fighting terrorists'?
You attacked them for losing wars, whatever that means....they actually won wars...but even if they lost ...that would be disgusting to attack poland for getting bombed by nazis....you attack them for bombing gaza and only getting limited hostages..as if it's up to them exactly how many hostages are freed by the terrorists...
They should just demand it, right? You don't like them endlessly showing off their down syndrome units? What the hell does that mean?
Yes, you are bat $%^& crazy.
Ofcourse if you were rhe Prime Minister, no wars would happen...if captives were taken, you would get them out immediately...thats the problem these days. 1) Jews pray and learn Torah too much and 2) you are not the Prime Minister.
Like I say, nationalism is not good for critical thinking skills. Calm down, write whole sentences without ellipses and try to express whatever point it is you want to make. No-one benefits from pretending that dysfunctional state institutions that are demonstrably bad at their stated purpose are actually working well.
According to you the United States is a complete joke because of 9/11 and Vietnam. Forget everything else.
All your points are crazy. Perhaps the worst one is attacking Israel for bombing Gaza for 49 days and only getting one fifth of the hostages. Im sorry but you are a vile person. They are trying so hard to get the hostages out of the hands of sub humans...yoi think its easy...and you stand on the side making fun. No, you are not better than people who denigrate prayer. You are callous.
All of those people actually contribute in real, and often unique, ways. Maybe you should get a little השכלה and בינה before mouthing off about things you are ignorant of. That, or change your handle.
They contribute to what exactly? The IDF screwing up and allowing savages to rampage around the country killing people at will for an entire day like an African failed state? Losing 8 successive wars? Spending 49 days bombing the **** out of Gaza to get 1/5 of the hostages? Is it just a coincidence that armies with successful militaries don't endlessly show off about their empowered female soldiers and Downs Syndrome units? I happen to know a bit the family of a soldier who died on Shemini Atzeret. He would be a alive today had he been wearing body armour, but his unit was sent out without any because the IDF is chaotic and dysfunctional.
One of the frequent critiques orthodox Jews used to make about Zionism is that it was a plot to make us like the nations, but, honestly, at this point, that would be an improvement.
What do comments like this even mean? Whether I run a soup kitchen in my garage or pig out in front of the TV all day has nothing to do with the IDF being not fit for purpose.
Yikes. Maskil Bina...I can't handle slifkins attacks but you are also suffering from a disease. The army is fighting very hard and you are harassing them for their 49 days of bombing and past wars. Sorry but you are crazy. You need help.
I'm not harassing anyone. I volunteered quite a bit on an army base, and if I see someone on uniform, I make a point of thanking them. This is a discussion forum, and I am pointing out that the IDF is poorly run, ineffective, and beset with bizarre ideological manias.
The way you are pointing it out isn't by detailing ideological manias but making sweeping insane statements...which ideological mania exactly contributed to the difficulty in freeing every hostage from ruthless animals immediately? Is it so easy to get back hostages from the worst criminals? Showing off down syndrome units? That's the major problem these days (whatever that even means)? Of all problems....
I get the feeling that the reason why it's funny to them is because clearly unlike a bullet they all know you cannot choose which Arab to kill. To them, tehilim are more like indiscriminate machine gun fire or carpet bombs that just kill Arabs period. To them all Arabs in gaza are equaly guilty so the concept of picking specific Arabs is funny.
The reason they were laughing is because they realised how stupid what he said was.
And Rabbi Aharon Feldman laughed because he too realised how stupid what he said was.
Clearly, he is well out of his depths. And that is the best Rabbi that Agudah can put forward as their spokesman.
I learnt the hard way during Covid that these Rabbis are far less impressive than we are led to believe. And that is me being nice about them. My true impressions, from my own personal conversations with some Chareidi Gedolim, are best kept to myself.
Best kept to yourself? So telling. Richie, if you would spend more time watching TV there would be less problems. Every hour of TV kills one terrorist.
Perhaps you don't know rabbi Feldman. He would NEVER EVER think that ANYTHING he's said is stupid. He laughed because he's so immensely proud of how clever he is, so much smarter than everyone else. And laughter is contagious, especially within an audience that identifies with the one who is laughing.
He loves proving things with stories.
For another example of him saying something incredibly ignorant yet crowing with pride over how more clever he is than everyone else :
Sadly, the idea of tehilim being a bullet is misguided. Physical facts are ignored at one’s peril. Enven the author of Tehilim, דוד המלך would consider such a statement ludicrous, as he states in 18 מְלַמֵּ֣ד יָ֭דַי לַמִּלְחָמָ֑ה וְֽנִחֲתָ֥ה קֶֽשֶׁת־נְ֝חוּשָׁ֗ה זְרוֹעֹתָֽי׃
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/its-all-greek-to-me
I'm linking to an extremely relevant post, written almost a year ago. Natan's autist-like "missing the joke" is part of a larger pattern of how he understands people.
That site seems nothing more than a stupid echo chamber for Shimshon, מכרכר בכל עוז and their cronies to gang up on Natan.
Assuming, of course, that they're not just one person operating under various pseudonyms.
Right. As opposed to this venerable platform where the host asks people to expound on the funniness of a joke.
Noone forces you, or even encourages you, to come here.
Someone posted on THIS blog a link to ANOTHER blog. That's inviting a response.
"Noone forces you, or even encourages you, to come here."
But then who's going to explain the joke to him?
Are you being deliberately thick.
I visited this blog years ago before the hordes of haters descend upon this blog to mock and argue with the blog host
It's actually extremely bizarre behaviour, and suggests that either (a) their Torah learning is not providing enough סיפוק, or (b) the absence of media, netflix and goyishe books means they are starved of entertainment and come here instead for it
Dummy, if someone has a blog where all he does is rage like a maniac about one specific community, you can expect them to fight back. That you call them haters, yet treat Doctor Nathan as some peaceloving snowman, is an everlasting testament to the thickness of your skull.
"It's actually extremely bizarre behaviour, and suggests that either (a) their Torah learning is not providing enough סיפוק, or (b) the absence of media, netflix and goyishe books means they are starved of entertainment and come here instead for it"
I can only speak for myself. (I don't have netflix, but I have plenty of goyishe books.) I visited and occasionally commented on this blog in the old format. I said roughly the same things I say now. Dr Slifkin writes things which I find extremely objectionable about people and communities I deeply respect. I respond in kind. No one forces him to have an open comments section on Substack. But since he occasionally crows about what a game changer the internet is and how it removes the gatekeepers, [1] what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
[1] See e.g. here: https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/the-equalizer "But then came Facebook! On Friday, someone directed me to Rabbi Menken's Facebook page, where he had posted his article. Now, Facebook works differently from Cross-Currents. There is no possibility of moderating comments on Facebook. Facebook is the great equalizer. "
You mean Rabbi Natan.
It's down to his chareidi education. He was infantilized, and is justifiable bitter. But he remains infantilized. Rabbi, is this what you want to be remembered for? Is this your life's work? Is this your calling from God?
He needs help, but he doesn't know that he is ill. In time I hope he gets medical attention.
Charles, this perennial chestnut from the moshav leitzim in the corner of the shul is REALLY boring. Both speculating that your opponent "skipped their meds" or "drank Kool-Aid" is unimaginative "humor" stuck in 7th grade.
I beg u, if u need to disagree strongly with some1, please hire a better writer! I wish u could step outside yourself and see how boring these stale jokes r!
I actually can step outside myself, at least when reminded. And my kids tell me my jokes aren't funny. But at least this comment wasn't meant to be funny. It was meant in earnest and in the hope that it would help. Read my recent comments. I never wrote anything about skipping meds, even with my impaired sense of humor I don't see skipping meds as funny; that's a serious matter. And I never wrote anything about drinking Kool Aid. That too, if you remember the origin of the expression, is a tragic matter. I can't afford to hire a writer. When I encountered this blog I valued it. I recently started seeing it again and it was transformed. At first I was convinced and started being upset that [some] chareidim were not serving their communities well and not helping the Klal. But then it was essentially the same post everyday with almost no interaction between the Rabbi and his critics. I took him for a hater and [tried] to poke fun. Then I saw that it wasn't hate, it was obsession, what appeared to this layperson to be an extreme and, to the author, a dangerous and self destructive obsession. I still value the Rabbi- I've explained why elsewhere, and it's sad to see a potentially great rabbi, with more accomlishemnts than most could achieve in three lifetimes, spiraling down. These things don't usually self correct. I carry no torch for the ultra orthodox and also have nothing against them. They are just people trying to put food on the table and pay their rent like everyone else. They didn't choose this way of life, it was imposed on them. I now understand that the Rabbi was attacked and defamed and I assume traumatized. That too is a very serious matter especially if left untreated. So long as the Rabbi remains attached, negative or positive, to the people that hurt him, the trauma is unlikely to recede. I've said what I felt I should already. If you are his friend, consider doing him a true chesed. I will try not to make jokes in general. I don't talk in shul - when I attend- and if I did, no-one would respond.
Also worth noting the ugliness of the phrase "like a bullet in an Arab’s head". Like a bullet in a Hamas member's head, yes I'm in favor. But many Arabs (the exact proportion is irrelevant as long as it's more than zero) oppose Hamas, or else are children too young to have an opinion. They don't deserve a bullet in the head.
One can refer to an enemy nation in the collective when one is at war. There were nice Germans in dresden too.
Israeli is not at war with the "Arab nation."
For the most part we are
Well, that better end some day, Vrumster. Since there r 1/2 billion "Arabs" in the world, as opposed to 16 M Jews, we had better find a way to make some permanent peace with them ASAP.
And keep at it for as long as it takes .
That’s nuts . We aren’t at war with any Arabs except the entities we are war with. So many Arab nations root for us. That’s just bigoted ugly talk
Charles, we do not need nobody to "root for us." Of course, Saudi-backed nations root against Iran, not FOR Israel. That's why SA invested $2B into the paws of incompetent investor money-burner Jared Kushner.
Yes, of course oppressed Muslim poor r ripe for anti-Israel propaganda. That's just human nature.
Very wrong, but anyway
I agree. Hamas are Arabs, as other enemies of Israel (but not Iran, which is not an Arab country). But Israel also have good relations with some Arab countries, there are Israeli Arabs fighting in Gaza as soldiers of the Tzavah (like the druzim), Israeli Arabs were killed in October 7th, Israeli Arabs saved Jews during October 7th, Israeli Arabs are kept as hostages by Hamas. The reality is complex.
Because it's magical mystical metaphysical stuff. Hashem decides what to do with each tefillah and directs it in the right direction.
You're not explaining why the story is funny.
It's funny because no one actually believes it works that way. Rather, tefillos enter the tefillos metasphere realm where they are directed by malachim to where they need to go. the bullets are a mashal, not how chareidim actually see reality.
(Note that this is not my understanding of tefillah, but merely the common litvish one. Breslov has an entirely different perception.)
And yet we certainly direct tefillos for specific people!
is that your issue? one can daven for a specific thing, sure. but when this kid asked if he can target a specific arab he was thinking about the moshol very vividly so it was adorable
No, I suspect he is trying to show that even chareidim dont believe their tefillos do as much as the idf does.
probably. i hope he gets the joke now
Does Rabbi Slifkin believe in the efficacy of prayer? Why do I suspect he doesn't? And what in the world is rational religion? Religions are a relief from rationality.
I don't think the Rabbi is being so cynical, which I don't get the impression is his style rather I believe is earnestly questioning. I hope the Rabbi found the answer from the many comments and us satisfied.
(also, we know that these things need chizuk precisely because they aren't apparent to our eyes like bullets. that doesn't mean we don't believe them)
If the kid approached Rabbi Feldman and said, "I happen to know of a Hamas terrorist by the name of Mohammed, can I daven for him to die?", Rabbi Feldman may have found that adorable, but not merely as comical as the kid imagining that every kappitel Tehillim is a real bullet.
"....group of students about how saying a chapter of Tehillim is like firing a bullet, one of them came over to him and asked, “Can I choose which Arab to kill?”
Where in the question do you see the kid believed that each kappital was a real bullet?
You are literally just adding in words to make what happened palatable.
The laughter was an uncontrolled immediate response to the fact that it's all just talking the talk and he and everybody else knows it.
It's the samw sort of nervous reaction friends of mine received when they asked various rabbonim who wax lyrical about emunoh and bitachon and therefor not going to college vis-a-vis the yeshivish insistence on finding a spouse from a wealthy family (including the children of the said rabbis themselves).
Adorable?
It's frightening.
Davening for a terrorist to die is frightening? Please explain.
Again. If you are a lamdan, you should be able to (in yeshivish) bring a clear geschmaker chiluk between tehillim to heal avraham bas soroh, and to kill achmed bas abdullah. Tzvei dinnim efsher?
Not just laugh it off.
True, and we also pray 3 times a day for all of Am Yisroel to be healed. Praying for individual sick people is something people do when they have an emotional connection with someone and they specifically want that person to be healed. Whereas it would be slightly odd to have a negative emotional connection with a specific terrorist he wanted killed. That's why it's a funny question. But I would agree if someone would, for whatever reason, have a negative emotional connection with a specific terrorist, he can absolutely pray for that one to be killed.
Anyway, I've noticed you're always evasive on your opinion on the effectiveness of prayer. Instead of playing "gotcha" and assuming hypocrisies, I think it would be more productive if you just came out and told us your opinion on it.
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/every-tehillim-is-a-bullet/comment/44296337
Even in that first link in that comment though, he prefaces by saying he won't go in depth about it, so I'd still want a more detailed explanation, with sources.
To discuss the links you posted:
First, in the first link of that comment, Rabbi Slifkin presents a false dichotomy between the supposed "rationalist" and "mystical" schools of thought, respectively: 1. Intercessory prayer is about a relationship with Hashem, or 2. It is about manipulating metaphysical forces.
This is preposterous. So there's no one that says intercessory prayer is about asking Hashem to help us (which goes hand in hand with a relationship, and isn't mutually exclusive)? That's the mainstream opinion!
Second, if Rabbi Slifkin does not believe prayer is effective, then that certainly will influence his opinions on the effort people are putting into this war. He should at the very least disclose this bias every time he lectures people on the topic.
Its easier to believe tefillah can save a specific person (because we want to believe it) than harm.
Intercessory prayer has been proven efficacious in two randomized clinical trials. This is the second one:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/485161
The effect sizes in both were small but significant.
There's been numerous studies showing no effect though.
and other studies?
Do you actually believe in anything larger than yourself?
Charles, could u please explain your question? I have no idea what u r asking. "Larger" in what way? Is there a supernatural being that consciously controls and directs my life, choices, successes, and failures? No, most certainly not!
I think I was asking the rabbi and at this point I would not ask . It was discourteous . In any event I wasn’t talking about religion exclusively. My mother told me two groups had higher survival rates in the camps , chasidim and communists. They both believed in something beyond themselves . I think that such a belief is necessary for both an individual to thrive. Rome started its ultimate degradation when the leaders and people stopped honoring the gods. I am a religious man , often lapsing , but I don’t believe anyone but me controls my choices wins and losses but me, in interface with God
Many of the rishonim especially the philosophic ones have a very difficult with tefila. They point out that one of the attributes of hashem is that he is unchanging so how can our tefilos change gods decisions? They work very hard on this question and the answer is not so simple. Nowadays most people ignore these questions but the questions are real. See http://ajewwithquestions.blogspot.com/2017/02/tefilladavening.html
what's the breslov perception, might i ask? reb nachman based his ideas on the zohar, and the zohar (in teruma?) is quite clear about these malachim and things...
Rebbe Nachman holds that tefilla, especially hisbodedus has a real actual effect. Not that it goes to the malachsphere, but with enough tefilla you will get what you want. (I've seen this in my own life). He doesn't like the apologetics of redirected tefillos. If it isn't working, just do more.
I'm getting confused. Are you a rationalist or a breslover? They don't usually come in one.
https://open.substack.com/pub/irrationalistmodoxism/p/where-are-natans-friends?r=233wbx&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=13983486
Also, tefilla will help you gain self awareness and awareness of Hashem, which will help.
He doesn't go with the idea that "sometimes the answer is no"? So why aren't you a multibillionaire by now?
what does breslov say?
You are not explaining how you can simultaneously bash chareidim for not davening and saying tehhilim for the IDF and then mocking the effectiveness of it.
Its all about hate for you.
No, actually the explanation is very simple.
you think it doesn't work. but at least if they do they should use their supposed weapons?
That is a tad hypocritical tho
Please consider that if so many people think you are off, you might be. People in your situation, obsessed with a woman, obsessed with fear of disease, obsessed in your case, with past slights, are always the last to know it. You are immensely talented, Are you absolutely certain that you are focusing this God given gift on productive activity? If you are certain, does that make you right? Cromwell put it best: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, to think it possible you may be mistaken.."
Lol. The people who think I am off just so happen to be charedi. I am deluged with messages from people who appreciate these posts.
Lol. The people who flood your inbox with messages appreciating these posts just so happen to hate and not understand chareidim
And you unlike the rest of us, do not suffer from confirmation bias. I am not chareidi and I see a problem here with emotional health. Do you get a charge out of people liking your posts? A dopamine hit? Start there. Do your own research. It's a crying shame, most people would give and arm and a leg to have your talent drive and ambition. Your work with children and animals is amazing. Why are you flushing yourself down the toilet. Your charedi enemies don't care about you and you won't gain any converts. Why do you give these people so much attention. Is there a 1% chance that it's not your highest and best use?
But the problem is that the people who you are talking about are chareidim. You are making statements about what they "really" feel, "really" believe. And you are refusing to consider that you may be wrong, despite the deluge of chareidim telling you what their own communities actually feel and believe. So the deluge of non chareidim appreciating these articles, of which for some reason only a precious few are willing to post as public comments, are irrelevant to that point.
No, that's not true. I recall non-charedim as well weighing in the past that there seems to be something wrong with you.
I expect i will get banned for pointing out this contradiction...so so long folks.
No, but I want to challenge you to figure out the explanation, because it's really, really straightforward.
It's cute/funny for the same reason that if someone said 'time is money' and a kid asked if he could have 'change of an hour' it would be. No one thinks that we should drop literal sifrei tehillim on Hamas.
Seriously, you need to get out more. Maybe go to a (charedi-free) savannah and cook yourself a biblical feast or something.
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/caption-contest
https://slifkinchallenge.blogspot.com/2014/06/our-boys-in-captivity-regrettably.html?q=boys+in+captivity
Nobody is talking about dropping books. We are talking about metaphysical effects.
I have no answer...and neither do you.
Deflecting a question like that is a old rebbi trick that does not work on me.
He reminds me of Don Quixote. He is shadow boxing the demons in his mind.
Please explain?
He thought windmills were his enemies so he attacked windmills with his lance. It was all a delusion, but he thought it was this what his life mission.
Rabbi, with honest respect, people here that are following your blog did it because they like you . You write novel and fascinating stuff. Your analyses even outside of your fields of expertise are almost always spot on. Including the stuff about some Chatedim, although not being very familiar with Chareideism I can’t be sure. We are your fans. And we are concerned about you. In my short experience you went to writing novel thoughts about a variety of interesting topics to writing about only one ( and a pretty boring one at that ) topic, chareidim. So you are losing fans. But that’s not the issue, looking from the outside Which is all we can do, it seems - this would apply to anybody not just you- it seems you are stuck . I guess the behavior you describe is so abhorrent to you that you feel compelled to hammer at each new manifestation. Why don’t we just stipulate that they lack ahavas Yisrael and a sense of responsibility. I don’t but that , but let’s assume it I’m evidence. But even given that , it looks like something else is going on that isn’t life enhancing. Like an unhealthy and unshakable obsession. Or like a person consumed with ( maybe justified) hate. Either of those is unlikely to remit without some intervention. Is it possible for you to discuss this with a senior rabbi you respect ? Or even a rabbi/emotional health professional? It surely wouldn’t hurt . And although I have no doubt you are intellectually a super genius are you an emotional genius ? If you talk with someone wise there is a chance you might learn something important about your own growth. I don’t want to presume, but this looks like a public breakdown . Respectfully, Charles
Still waiting....
Here is why:
"I would like to introduce another example: prayer. This is a complex topic, but without getting into too much detail here, we can say as follows: According to the rationalist Rishonim, prayer is solely about our relationship with God. According to the mystical approach, on the other hand, prayer is primarily about manipulating various metaphysical energies, with a corresponding effect on the material world."
https://rationalistjudaism.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-function-of-prayer-and-tehillim.html
“In fact, it seems that according to Rambam, while petitionary prayer is of great religious importance, it does not actually serve to attain the object of one's requests.”
https://rationalistjudaism.blogspot.com/2011/06/ring-of-power.html
And https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/a-tale-of-two-chavas/comment/14940446.
See the very thorough rebuttal to this bizarre view posted on IM:
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/qanon-natan
Can you share? Explaining why a joke is funny is like a frog in the blender.
To his credit I dont think he bans anyone.
After The Great Purge
I have a feeling Hashem doesn't do anything with tefilot that are offered with the flippant attitude that appears here.
that's super clear. chazal say that Hashem's response actually is based on the person's connection with the tefila. it's a relationship between us and Him and when we go and meet Him, He comes and greets us as per our efforts. so if we have been doing the right things and learning and being nice to people, the tefilos will be more accepted. (actually, come to think of it, one maareh makom is in this past week's parsha where yaakov's tefilos were accepted right away because he had just spent 14 years perfectly connected to his avodas Hashem)
Couldn't have said it better
You're not explaining why the story is funny.
it's funny because it's cute. it's a moshol of course, even when expressed to adults. we all get how bullets are effective. so we use that as a moshol to the effectiveness of tefilla and torah. and it gets the message across in a strong way. but we also know that we don't understand the exact mehalech Hashem uses and how this affects this and how that affects the other thing. be we are maamin be'emunah sheleima that this is how Hashem runs the world. when the kid takes it literally it's very cute;)
So it really means that you can,'t control what happens in the world. Just a General prayer for help which may or may not occur.It's up to G-d if,how
,when, etc...So prayer is affective but may not help.
It is an important tool.The problem is a that there is no emphasis on the need for action,effort as much sspossible to accomplish your goals.Of course without prayer you may not succeed.But, אין סומכים עליך הנס.A false prophesy of imaginary dreams fired by an agenda that seeks to further praiseworthy goals.
A sad joke.אם כל הכבוד.
I know your English isn't too great, but at least spell עם* כל הכבוד* correctly. And אין סומכים *על* הנס.
Also, when you don't put a space after a period it looks weird.Very.
Typos my friend.
i thought you were a maamin...
Absolutely with all my heart? It's very simple .I believe man must conduct himself according to the natural order,Nature. The same G-d that creates and activates the world continuously revealed Himself to us as the G+d who is punished or rewarded
He tells us to pray to Him for our success.They go together. But אין סומכים על הנס. This means man has to care for himself.This is basic.This is the approach of the Rambam. G-d's punishment sometimes is to leave us to suffer the results of the inadequacy of our human efforts and sometimes He rewards is by helping is succeed despite our poor and inadequate efforts. ושמרתם את נפשותכםן is not just medical. It's a general approach.
If it's funny because it's cute that the kid is actually buying the story, the whole speech was pointless. It's either real as they claim or not real. And the rabbi laughing bends to the latter.
From your take you're clearly an outsider who can't grasp the nuances of what happened here. Not a negative, only that you can't reinterpret things you don't get. I'm an insider and I actually get what was happening. I know what this rabbi was saying cuz I'm part of his broader community. We talk like this all the time and we all get it. You're twisting his words, perhaps unintentionally, but that's the fact of the matter.
Why play games? You know that you can't depend on miracles.
Read happy's old article "it's all Greek to me", or something like that. We speak different languages. "Every kapittel is like a bullet" is trying to bring out the point. The more Torah, tefillah, and zechusim there are, the stronger protection that Klal Yisroel has.
So it's trying to bring out that claim by way of asserting gross exaggeration?
No. It's trying to bring out that the effects of tefillah are real and tangible. Just the kid understood the parable in a very literal sense.
How did he understand it any more literally than saying Tehillim for a sick person?
It's called double think. You can pretend you believe and not exactly believe. It's useful as the party line.,especially for kids and those who don't know better.You yourself begin to sort of believe it. It helps not to face the reality.It helps one believe that he believes in it. The whole idea off insiders and outsiders is a ploy to. escape discussion and facing reality,that you need to work and that you should serve in the army etc..
Yet 'torah protects' is never explained as merely trying to 'bring out a point'. It's brought ad nauseum to provide a serious explanation as to why benei torah provide real protection (apparently not for beiter or kiryat seifer though, that require extra protection at times of high alert).
Hence the laughter.
That really worked in Europe 80 years ago, didn't it?
So to clarify, you do not believe in the effectiveness of prayer at all, right?
If tefillah really helps and protects. Let them go in the front lines with the IDF.
Just as well as it worked in the pogroms, the destruction of the second Temple, the prevention of all those expulsions and mass killings, the Inquisition, the slaughters of Jews by Arabs before Independence, and so many more. And no, shooting the arrows and then rhetorically drawing circles around them afterwards doesn't count.
R' Avigdor Miller addresses that at length. Which is exactly my point. Also, according to R' Dovid Soloveitchik who was a first-hand eyewitness, at least where he was, there wasn't all that much tefillah going on there at all.
There was a blogger many years ago with a slifkin last name who made up the concept "machshava cholent" how all the different strands of machshava blend into one big mush in the average persons head. This feels similar.
Absent everything else wrong with this, the fact the R’ Feldman talks so blithely about Torah being a “bullet in an Arab’s head” (incidentally, not a “terrorist”, not a “Hamas fighter”, not even a “Palestinian”, but rather a generic Arab) and that these folks laugh like leitzim at the idea of a young student asking bloodthirstily “Can I choose which Arab to kill?” reflects a bloodlust and disregard for human life that is frankly horrifying.
We should be distressed by the fact that our soldiers are forced to kill in defense of our people and our land, not excited by it. And the notion that Torah itself (דרכיה דרכי נעם וכל נתיבותיה שלום) would be valorized as a weapon for killing leaves me shaking my head.
By Arabs he meant terrorists. Try being dan likaf zchus. It works miracles.
1. He didn’t say “terrorists”.
2. He didn’t say the sweet little talmid specified “terrorists” in his bloodlust.
3. None of that matters in the slightest. As I made eminently clear in my comment, it’s the bloodlust that should horrify us: of R’ Feldman, of the talmid, and of all who would treat such a thing as a laughing matter.
What does the word 'meant' mean?
Ever read על נהרות בבל?
Tle laughing about the tehillim killing a specific Arab is, as you indicate, quite telling. The Haredi world spends vast amounts of time, energy, and money glorifying what they do and denigrating what everyone else in the world does. I assume they do this because, if one stops to think about it, they do so very little, and everyone else does so much, most of which - modern medicine, the entire economic system, communications, transportation, government, architecture, everything , really - the Haredi community is happy to make use of without contributing anything, so they denigrate it all so as to not see admit how parasitic their day to day lives are. So, the whole "learning is fighting" thing is really a kind of joke - these shgotzim are fighting and dying, we, as with most everything else, don't bother to get involved, and, as justification, we'll pretend that we are "really" doing the job of fighting the war. Not so deep down inside, close to the surface, in fact, they know it's just baloney, part of their self justifying superstructure, so when someone seems to take it seriously, literally, they, quite appropriately, laugh.
Yes felix...you got it. The one who really helps is you.
The amount of time you spend glued to your TV does much more than praying and learning. If only you could watch several channels at once. Then moshiach would have come already.
GARBAGE ALERT
If you don't believe in Tefillah just say so.. Your cheap jokes and mockery of a fundamental to Jewish faith show your true self.
Stop pretending you're observant and religious, you are a textbook atheist.
Just be honest with yourself and admit it publicly - you'll feel much better once you're out the closet.
You talking to me?
No sorry lol!
Will repost on main
According to Slifkin the only Tefilah and Tehilim that works are the ones that have not been said for the IDF.
Otherwise Tefilah and Tehilim don't work because they are a " rational form of self reflection".
Nothing to see here folks...move along.
The Rabbi here seems to believe in nothing at all other than what he doesn't believe in?
Does it scale? If I read ק"כ, is it like a small bullet, but if I read קי"ט, am I dropping MOABs?
It was funny bc it doesnt really mean that a tehillim equals a bullet. But that with each good deed done for the sake of the soldiers, the soldiers have more merit to win the war.
If you don't believe in Tefillah just say so.. Your cheap jokes and mockery of a fundamental to Jewish faith show your true self.
Stop pretending you're observant and religious, you are a textbook atheist.
Just be honest with yourself and admit it publicly - you'll feel much better once you're out the closet.
You know, I was waiting for the train just now and a young woman got off the elevator to the platform. She clearly has some sort of severe spinal deformity or something similar, and could only walk, haltingly, with the aid of a wheeled walker frame.
She was in uniform.
Not apparently religious, either.
I have no doubt she could have gotten an instant exemption from all service, and no one would have held it against her at all.
And she's hardly the only one. The IDF has entire units of soldiers with disabilities, severe autism, even Down's Syndrome.
And then I thought of Schreiber's line- which anyone who's been paying attention at all the last month already knew was completely untrue- that absent a draft, only "perhaps a few crazy mizrochniks [sic*]" would serve. (This is of course projection, as the main body of refusees would be *his* people.) How ugly.
*Mizrachi ceased to exist in 1956, but that's typical of these types.
"And she's hardly the only one. The IDF has entire units of soldiers with disabilities, severe autism, even Down's Syndrome."
Maybe the IDF should focus on actually winning a war for the first time in 50 years, and less on weird stuff like this.
Maybe if you were a little more in touch with the history of the last 50 years, you would know that every one of those wars ended when the international community forced Israel to stop fighting because too many Arab human shields were dying, not because Israel had any lack of success in military terms.
You don't get to say 'we would have won if only X factor had been different'. The reality in the world we actually live in that the IDF lost all these wars. The logical response to the exact same dynamic playing out over an over again is to develop a new military strategy that is less reliant on aerial bombardment. This is how the early Zionists responded to failure. But ever since Begin came to power, Zionism has become about uncritical reverence for the incompetent state institutions combined with moaning about how the world isn't fair. The first step to solving your problem is admitting you have one.
Sounds like you didn't actually read my comment. Not only were you unfamiliar with the degree to which Israeli actions are constrained by international politics, but you didn't seem to understand it even after I explained it explicitly. Instead you made a novice level suggestion ("develop a new military strategy that is less reliant on aerial bombardment") which wouldn't help with the international politics and might actually make them worse, and spun a psychological fairy tale around it.
Here's a tip that will help you in life, if you think you are one step ahead in an argument, and you aren't arguing with a dumb Muslim, it is almost certain you are actually 10 steps behind.
Of course I am aware of the international context. Every time hostilities break out, Israel pursues a strategy based on (a) blowing up lots of stuff and (b) sending out the hasbarists to ramble on about human shields. Inevitably, since they achieve nothing and they kill too many civilians, international pressure means they have to stop.
However, this time you actually finally got your wish. Instead of moaning that 'we totally would have won THIS time if we had just been allowed to kill more civilians' you've taken down 13,000 in under 2 months. What does the IDF have to show for it? Well, they rescued ... 1 hostage, and they killed .... 1 senior Hamas comamnder, and they 'degraded' 15 out of 40 Hamas units. Or, in other words, they achieved nothing, again. And so they gave into another humiliating hostage deal, on the grounds that it's not as outlandishly humiliating as previous versions.
The IDF knows what the situation is, diplomatically and militarily. They have had decades and all the money in the world to work on a better strategy, but they have squat. And they can't even defend the border. They are just crap. And it is people like you who enable them to continue being crap. So, go ahead, salute the flag like a dumb goy and see how far it gets you.
In your four long paragraphs you yet again couldn't come up with any better alternative to the policies you're criticizing. But more to the point...
"dumb Muslim" "dumb goy"
Now it's clear what level of person I'm arguing with. No use wasting more time on such an argument.
Maskil Bina. You are downright insane. Worse than slifkin. Stop attacking Israel for fighting against terrorists. Seriously.
Honestly, nationalism is just not good for people's cognitive functioning. Even basic reading comprehension goes to pot. Where did I 'attack Israel for fighting terrorists'?
You attacked them for losing wars, whatever that means....they actually won wars...but even if they lost ...that would be disgusting to attack poland for getting bombed by nazis....you attack them for bombing gaza and only getting limited hostages..as if it's up to them exactly how many hostages are freed by the terrorists...
They should just demand it, right? You don't like them endlessly showing off their down syndrome units? What the hell does that mean?
Yes, you are bat $%^& crazy.
Ofcourse if you were rhe Prime Minister, no wars would happen...if captives were taken, you would get them out immediately...thats the problem these days. 1) Jews pray and learn Torah too much and 2) you are not the Prime Minister.
Indeed the world has gone to pot.
Like I say, nationalism is not good for critical thinking skills. Calm down, write whole sentences without ellipses and try to express whatever point it is you want to make. No-one benefits from pretending that dysfunctional state institutions that are demonstrably bad at their stated purpose are actually working well.
According to you the United States is a complete joke because of 9/11 and Vietnam. Forget everything else.
All your points are crazy. Perhaps the worst one is attacking Israel for bombing Gaza for 49 days and only getting one fifth of the hostages. Im sorry but you are a vile person. They are trying so hard to get the hostages out of the hands of sub humans...yoi think its easy...and you stand on the side making fun. No, you are not better than people who denigrate prayer. You are callous.
All of those people actually contribute in real, and often unique, ways. Maybe you should get a little השכלה and בינה before mouthing off about things you are ignorant of. That, or change your handle.
They contribute to what exactly? The IDF screwing up and allowing savages to rampage around the country killing people at will for an entire day like an African failed state? Losing 8 successive wars? Spending 49 days bombing the **** out of Gaza to get 1/5 of the hostages? Is it just a coincidence that armies with successful militaries don't endlessly show off about their empowered female soldiers and Downs Syndrome units? I happen to know a bit the family of a soldier who died on Shemini Atzeret. He would be a alive today had he been wearing body armour, but his unit was sent out without any because the IDF is chaotic and dysfunctional.
One of the frequent critiques orthodox Jews used to make about Zionism is that it was a plot to make us like the nations, but, honestly, at this point, that would be an improvement.
What are you doing for israel then? Fressing cholent?
What do comments like this even mean? Whether I run a soup kitchen in my garage or pig out in front of the TV all day has nothing to do with the IDF being not fit for purpose.
Yikes. Maskil Bina...I can't handle slifkins attacks but you are also suffering from a disease. The army is fighting very hard and you are harassing them for their 49 days of bombing and past wars. Sorry but you are crazy. You need help.
I'm not harassing anyone. I volunteered quite a bit on an army base, and if I see someone on uniform, I make a point of thanking them. This is a discussion forum, and I am pointing out that the IDF is poorly run, ineffective, and beset with bizarre ideological manias.
The way you are pointing it out isn't by detailing ideological manias but making sweeping insane statements...which ideological mania exactly contributed to the difficulty in freeing every hostage from ruthless animals immediately? Is it so easy to get back hostages from the worst criminals? Showing off down syndrome units? That's the major problem these days (whatever that even means)? Of all problems....
I agree. The vast majority of people serve out of a sense of idealism and responsibility to the nation. Kol hakavod to them.
First you attack for not davening...now for davening? If its not hatred that is driving this relentless rant then what is (Serious question)
Its pure love for am yisrael thar drives slifkin to the edges of hights of sanity.
I think he is past the tipping point.
Brace for impact!
Ha, incoming.
I get the feeling that the reason why it's funny to them is because clearly unlike a bullet they all know you cannot choose which Arab to kill. To them, tehilim are more like indiscriminate machine gun fire or carpet bombs that just kill Arabs period. To them all Arabs in gaza are equaly guilty so the concept of picking specific Arabs is funny.
The reason they were laughing is because they realised how stupid what he said was.
And Rabbi Aharon Feldman laughed because he too realised how stupid what he said was.
Clearly, he is well out of his depths. And that is the best Rabbi that Agudah can put forward as their spokesman.
I learnt the hard way during Covid that these Rabbis are far less impressive than we are led to believe. And that is me being nice about them. My true impressions, from my own personal conversations with some Chareidi Gedolim, are best kept to myself.
OTOH, the responsa of Rabbi Hershel Schachter during COVID were a pleasure to read and made me proud to be a Jew.
Best kept to yourself? So telling. Richie, if you would spend more time watching TV there would be less problems. Every hour of TV kills one terrorist.
GARBAGE ALERT
This maturity really adds weight to your opinion
Thanks, much appreciated.
Yeah, I was wondering how old you are.
Perhaps you don't know rabbi Feldman. He would NEVER EVER think that ANYTHING he's said is stupid. He laughed because he's so immensely proud of how clever he is, so much smarter than everyone else. And laughter is contagious, especially within an audience that identifies with the one who is laughing.
He loves proving things with stories.
For another example of him saying something incredibly ignorant yet crowing with pride over how more clever he is than everyone else :
https://youtu.be/0-ls1NWqm6A?si=2QevMzOcYz78pEx0
You seem to be mocking the concept of Tefillah, or of reciting Tehillim. Perhaps you could write a clarification?
It is the people who claim that Tefillah and Tehillim are bullets who are making a mockery of it.
Thats not actually their claim
Sadly, the idea of tehilim being a bullet is misguided. Physical facts are ignored at one’s peril. Enven the author of Tehilim, דוד המלך would consider such a statement ludicrous, as he states in 18 מְלַמֵּ֣ד יָ֭דַי לַמִּלְחָמָ֑ה וְֽנִחֲתָ֥ה קֶֽשֶׁת־נְ֝חוּשָׁ֗ה זְרוֹעֹתָֽי׃
You are not going to catch these 2 rabbanim out on something like that I'm sorry you can't really believe they are that superficial