UPDATE: CLARIFICATION: Some people misunderstood this post as a criticism of Avromi Perkowski, the person highlighted on the cover of Mishpacha. Nothing could have been further from my intention - he does wonderful chessed at no charge. My criticism was for Mishpacha using this as their cover story, which Mr. Perkowski himself tells me he did not want.
I live in America and I am Chareidi so naturally I am very removed from this war. But at least my rabbeim never let us forget. The tehilim in my yeshiva is still strong, unlike in many other places where it turned into an ashrei. And they send constant reminders about how we must not forget about those in Israel who are truly suffering/giving up their lives. And while yes,I may never fully appreciate the pain I am not part of, I work on that as an avoda and I try my best. This is the klal yisroel I love, not the petty, calloused individuals who make don't make this one of their priorities.
Of the two roshei yeshiva, one encouraged and one at least allowed (seems he wasn't sure that it would make a dent hishtadlus wise, never had the chance to ask him why). A bus of guys went from yeshiva, and a bunch of alumni went from their respective places.
Yes, in chu'l the attitude is very different. Nothing to do with estranging wealthy donors, or the look and feel living amongst not as religious Jews. That's just me being cynical.
Please ban commentators who think this blog is THEIR home, where they reside continuously, waiting to pounce on whatever and whomever they do not like and where they think that THEY (not the actual home owner ie. blog owner) will determine its content and do so in the most obnoxious, vicious, personal, and arrogant fashion.
When one person has a blog, with many people commenting and wanting to promote free discussion, it's unethical to dominate the comments section with intimidating personal attacks on the blog owner and on commentators sympathetic to his perspective.
Who was dominating the comments section? I didn't notice Slifkin opponents dominating the comments section more than his allies. When there is a long back and forth between an opponent and an ally, it that called dominating the comments section? I don't think so. Were the opponents being intimidating? Were the attacks too personal? Maybe on a different blog. But this blog is dedicated to attacking chareidim, so considering that, these are the types of responses to be expected.
It is not like a home. It is more like a neonazi conference held in a hotel where they are giving speeches about how evil the Jews are. If some Jewish protesters forced their way into to the conference room a interrupted the conference they could be charged with trespassing but, they would be cheered as heroes by the Jewish community and likely everybody who is not a neonazi.
Let's say, Yeshivishe people breaking in to stop an OU convention or Modern Orthodox breaking in to stop an Agudah Convention?
And just as the Agudah can refuse the floor to those who disrupt their convention and insult their leadership and members, so can Slifkin refuse the floor to those who disrupt his blog (overwhelm the comments section) and insult him, his readers, and his community.
This person was being rude with his username and deserved to be banned. But if a bunch of neonazis held a conference in a hotel about the Jewish problem and Jewish protesters broke in and stopped the conference, they would be cheered as heroes. By other Jewish people, I mean, not by the neonazis.
Let's say, Yeshivishe people breaking in to stop an OU convention or Modern Orthodox breaking in to stop an Agudah Convention?
And just as the Agudah can refuse the floor to those who disrupt their convention and insult their leadership and members, so can Slifkin refuse the floor to those who disrupt his blog (overwhelm the comments section) and insult him, his readers, and his community.
Yeah, but unfortunately that excuse is increasingly used to ease out real science and ease in quackery. Did you see that performance from UCLA Medical?
I gave a donation to the museum as my way of replying to the absolute jerks among your critics. They are a vile bunch, and I agree that you should ban them; let them poison the air elsewhere.
Banning is essentially a form of censorship. While most of these critical jerks raise my ire and blood pressure, I am not sure that they should be censored. Perhaps restricting them to just one or, at most two, comments would be enough.
If we were holding a live meeting and these folks came in and yelled their idiocies at us, we'd be perfectly within our rights to ban them. Rabbi Slifkin is under no obligation to continue offering them a forum.
The people who black out women's and female children's faces cause both short term and long term damage to our precious society. In their efforts for "spiritual purity" they demonize and sexualize females while generating layers of confusion-bordering-on-Avodah-Zarah. The term "Ain Somchin Al HaNess" is a key principle for Jewish life and navigating complex realities. Any individual or publication that relies upon or advocates for "magical thinking" or apocalyptic messianism represents a real threat to Israel and the Jewish People.
"They use phrases like “sacrificing one’s life” to refer to their sitting safely in a comfortable room indulging in intellectual pursuits, while in my world the phrase refers to people who are ready to actually sacrifice their actual life and sometimes actually do."
When you live a life insulated from reality, your little things become big things, kind of like a child's world. In many ways, they exist in an infantile society, which is reflected in their childish cultural vocabulary.
In Israel, it certainly feels on the ground like there is an alien population that lives here in an alternate reality. Gaza may as well be Mars, there's a war being fought by "other people", and the most pressing concern is how to spend Bein Hazmanim.
Personally, I'm unsure whether banning these people is the right approach. I do find it rather puzzling that these haredim (I assume they are haredim based on their comments but could be wrong) spend SO much time on this blog writing so many comments. Don't they ever learn? Or have a job? Or do anything else?
What I do find very troubling is the language I frequently hear in the comments. Especially against Rabbi Slifkin but also against other people's postings. It is sometimes extremely disgusting. If anyone should be banned, it should be people that cannot speak politely with one another.
Your point is VERY well taken, but instead of DEhumanising those you are critical of, maybe the tochacho would be better received if you HUMANISED them.
Some think the 'real' world is where people fight wars and spend their days chasing green pieces of paper. They know that somewhere someone is figuring out the meaning of life, but that's just a hobby.
Others think the 'real' world is where people spend their efforts getting to the bottom of the purpose of this life, and the fighting of wars and chasing green papers is a mere hobby, a distraction from the 'real' world.
Who is the alien and who is the citizen? Each will say the same about the other. But if a person sees this world as a corridor to another world, he will not care too much about being a citizen of a waiting room.
I have a natural instinct against banning anything, but it is your blog. If anything, I would ban all links to that obnoxious site dedicated to attacking you. That's just rude.
UPDATE: CLARIFICATION: Some people misunderstood this post as a criticism of Avromi Perkowski, the person highlighted on the cover of Mishpacha. Nothing could have been further from my intention - he does wonderful chessed at no charge. My criticism was for Mishpacha using this as their cover story, which Mr. Perkowski himself tells me he did not want.
What it should say: "UPDATE: CLARIFICATION: I'm just a psychopathy with a psychotic obsession about chareidim! Over and out!"
I live in America and I am Chareidi so naturally I am very removed from this war. But at least my rabbeim never let us forget. The tehilim in my yeshiva is still strong, unlike in many other places where it turned into an ashrei. And they send constant reminders about how we must not forget about those in Israel who are truly suffering/giving up their lives. And while yes,I may never fully appreciate the pain I am not part of, I work on that as an avoda and I try my best. This is the klal yisroel I love, not the petty, calloused individuals who make don't make this one of their priorities.
Did your rebbeim bring the yeshiva to the march in Washington?
Of the two roshei yeshiva, one encouraged and one at least allowed (seems he wasn't sure that it would make a dent hishtadlus wise, never had the chance to ask him why). A bus of guys went from yeshiva, and a bunch of alumni went from their respective places.
See Jerry Steinfeld writes about "The gratitude attitude"! That's the healthy attitude! Right here!
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/the-gratitude-attitude
Exactly!!
Yes, in chu'l the attitude is very different. Nothing to do with estranging wealthy donors, or the look and feel living amongst not as religious Jews. That's just me being cynical.
Please ban commentators who think this blog is THEIR home, where they reside continuously, waiting to pounce on whatever and whomever they do not like and where they think that THEY (not the actual home owner ie. blog owner) will determine its content and do so in the most obnoxious, vicious, personal, and arrogant fashion.
As in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUlBA4GvFfw
If a person writes things about others in public, it is hardly ethical to prevent them from responding and bringing their position.
This isn't a private home, it is a public forum/
When one person has a blog, with many people commenting and wanting to promote free discussion, it's unethical to dominate the comments section with intimidating personal attacks on the blog owner and on commentators sympathetic to his perspective.
Who was dominating the comments section? I didn't notice Slifkin opponents dominating the comments section more than his allies. When there is a long back and forth between an opponent and an ally, it that called dominating the comments section? I don't think so. Were the opponents being intimidating? Were the attacks too personal? Maybe on a different blog. But this blog is dedicated to attacking chareidim, so considering that, these are the types of responses to be expected.
Too subtle?
It is not like a home. It is more like a neonazi conference held in a hotel where they are giving speeches about how evil the Jews are. If some Jewish protesters forced their way into to the conference room a interrupted the conference they could be charged with trespassing but, they would be cheered as heroes by the Jewish community and likely everybody who is not a neonazi.
As regard to the Jews versus neonazis, agreed.
But what if the lines were less clear.
Let's say, Yeshivishe people breaking in to stop an OU convention or Modern Orthodox breaking in to stop an Agudah Convention?
And just as the Agudah can refuse the floor to those who disrupt their convention and insult their leadership and members, so can Slifkin refuse the floor to those who disrupt his blog (overwhelm the comments section) and insult him, his readers, and his community.
I'm sorry, I wrote the same comment twice. I responded to your other response to my other comment.
Juvenile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUlBA4GvFfw
Not at all.
No right to free speech when in someone else's home.
No right to insult and bait the host.
No right to not only overstay your welcome, but to revel in staying there even though the host does not want you.
ie. Don't come back after you've been banned (told to leave) and don't gloat over having forced your way back in.
This person was being rude with his username and deserved to be banned. But if a bunch of neonazis held a conference in a hotel about the Jewish problem and Jewish protesters broke in and stopped the conference, they would be cheered as heroes. By other Jewish people, I mean, not by the neonazis.
As regard to the Jews versus neonazis, agreed.
But what if the lines were less clear.
Let's say, Yeshivishe people breaking in to stop an OU convention or Modern Orthodox breaking in to stop an Agudah Convention?
And just as the Agudah can refuse the floor to those who disrupt their convention and insult their leadership and members, so can Slifkin refuse the floor to those who disrupt his blog (overwhelm the comments section) and insult him, his readers, and his community.
Personally, no, I would not cheer the Jews.
Yeah, but unfortunately that excuse is increasingly used to ease out real science and ease in quackery. Did you see that performance from UCLA Medical?
I gave a donation to the museum as my way of replying to the absolute jerks among your critics. They are a vile bunch, and I agree that you should ban them; let them poison the air elsewhere.
That's encouraging me to keep the jerks here! Just kidding - thank you for the donation!
Banning is essentially a form of censorship. While most of these critical jerks raise my ire and blood pressure, I am not sure that they should be censored. Perhaps restricting them to just one or, at most two, comments would be enough.
If we were holding a live meeting and these folks came in and yelled their idiocies at us, we'd be perfectly within our rights to ban them. Rabbi Slifkin is under no obligation to continue offering them a forum.
Please please ban them
I used to troll online blogs when I was 15.
Then I grew up.
It’s extremely immature and you don’t need your blog ruined by a bunch of pathetic trolls.
I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of them are 15. Or at least never matured past that point.
The people who black out women's and female children's faces cause both short term and long term damage to our precious society. In their efforts for "spiritual purity" they demonize and sexualize females while generating layers of confusion-bordering-on-Avodah-Zarah. The term "Ain Somchin Al HaNess" is a key principle for Jewish life and navigating complex realities. Any individual or publication that relies upon or advocates for "magical thinking" or apocalyptic messianism represents a real threat to Israel and the Jewish People.
Great article.
Ban them.
The same people have already been banned many times before. The problem with banning is that the same people just keep on signing up under a new name
You have to weed the garden regularly.
"Mow the lawn," eh?
What’s good for צה״ל is good for R Natan
Good idea. The ones that use juvenile shtiklech and name-calling. This is *your blog*.
"They use phrases like “sacrificing one’s life” to refer to their sitting safely in a comfortable room indulging in intellectual pursuits, while in my world the phrase refers to people who are ready to actually sacrifice their actual life and sometimes actually do."
When you live a life insulated from reality, your little things become big things, kind of like a child's world. In many ways, they exist in an infantile society, which is reflected in their childish cultural vocabulary.
Very good point. Does it make anyone else's skin crawl when they refer to legal adults as "boys and girls"?
To be fair, soldiers are referred to as "boys" as well, but that's an entirely different context- pretty much the opposite one.
Of course, in much of Orthodoxy, anyone unmarried is a "boy" or "girl" as well.
And for an additional illustration, just read the comments here from the people potentially to be banned . . .
Don't ban them, their comments only prove your point.
They do, but they also foster hatred towards the idiots who post the utter nonsense.
In Israel, it certainly feels on the ground like there is an alien population that lives here in an alternate reality. Gaza may as well be Mars, there's a war being fought by "other people", and the most pressing concern is how to spend Bein Hazmanim.
It's really unfathomable.
Don't ban them
The most effective way to prove that Haredi society is messed up is to read the comments that they make here on this blog.
It's even, forgive me, more effective than your well-reasoned posts.
Let the world see what these people really thunk.
Yes, please do not include irrelevant comments. Thank you for your insights.
Personally, I'm unsure whether banning these people is the right approach. I do find it rather puzzling that these haredim (I assume they are haredim based on their comments but could be wrong) spend SO much time on this blog writing so many comments. Don't they ever learn? Or have a job? Or do anything else?
What I do find very troubling is the language I frequently hear in the comments. Especially against Rabbi Slifkin but also against other people's postings. It is sometimes extremely disgusting. If anyone should be banned, it should be people that cannot speak politely with one another.
I haven't seen bad language from the opponents. Harshness I have seen...but no harsher than the posts they are commenting on.
Your point is VERY well taken, but instead of DEhumanising those you are critical of, maybe the tochacho would be better received if you HUMANISED them.
Some think the 'real' world is where people fight wars and spend their days chasing green pieces of paper. They know that somewhere someone is figuring out the meaning of life, but that's just a hobby.
Others think the 'real' world is where people spend their efforts getting to the bottom of the purpose of this life, and the fighting of wars and chasing green papers is a mere hobby, a distraction from the 'real' world.
Who is the alien and who is the citizen? Each will say the same about the other. But if a person sees this world as a corridor to another world, he will not care too much about being a citizen of a waiting room.
I have a natural instinct against banning anything, but it is your blog. If anything, I would ban all links to that obnoxious site dedicated to attacking you. That's just rude.