Wow, we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel when we are in a war, and we have to be "grateful" that other Jews are even saying Tehillim and donating blood.
By the way, this should be labelled as a "clarification", not as an apology- you have nothing to apologize for. Keep your thoughts coming, and keep them strong. Those of us here in Israel, who are experiencing the exact dichotomy you so aptly describe, are behind you all the way.
I am an Oleh Chadash and agree that your opinion is 100% valid.
In the lottery of life I was either too young or too old to be drafted (by the US Army).
Both my sons, on the other hand, served as lone soldiers in the IDF and made Aliyah after their service in the 2nd Lebanon war. My youngest was in Nahal Charedi and spent 6 years in Hesder.
This week I volunteered to pack underwear, socks, and t-shirts (tens of thousands of items) at a base near Haifa. Haredim could easily volunteer next to me on that assembly line, or the one I worked at where we packed the (kosher) food for thousands of troops.
Or perhaps, if they won’t step foot on an army base, all of their able bodies are needed to pick the produce that’s rotting in the fields. If they care so much about Chalav Yisroel load up a bus and milk the cows before they die!
Why don't they? Maybe you should write a post about that. If the army would focus 0n adults above 28 perhaps they would have a lot more success drafting chareidim.
For the same reason that every other military recruits and drafts young people and extend the draft age as far as it needs to get the needed manpower. Are you aware of that?
It is not blind following. It is for the same real reasons There are physical, mental and practical reasons that 18-22yo are going to do much better in combat and other highly stressful roles. And to remind you again, there are plenty of people who thing that Torah is a top priority but also serve. What it takes to be Chareidi is also subject to question. Seems to be axiomatic in Israel, that you can't be Chareidi and have secular education, yet the Charedi/Yeshivish here in America are able to do it. The Gerrer and others used to do national service (not sure what they do now). There are lots of possibilities if there was a will do to it, but there isn't.
You seems to be confused. Everyone eligible goes at a young age and then they are all subject to being called up. If they need more people they have to either make more people draft eligible (which is what you oppose) or else they have to call up older and older age reserves which has less benefit and higher cost, but yes that is what they might have to do if the war expands. The expansion you suggest is exactly what you oppose. Starting a recruitment drive among the few 28+ yo that were not eligible at 18 is not going to yield results; if they were useful they would have gotten them before. And they will be very limited as soldiers.
Because it's not true? It wasn't true in the American colonies either. His point is valid about the hypocrisy of using slavery metaphors when you hold slaves. But those from the anti-slavery parts of the North who also favored independence made the same observations about their colleagues. The first Massachusetts constitution was rejected in part because of insufficient anti-slavery provisions.
So you say the North weren't hypocrites, but concede the South were. OK, point still made.
Admit this much, and you too Nachum, if you're reading: The worst fear of any Israeli is God Forbid to be a Fraiyer. God Forbid that A should have something B doesn't. I cant tell you how many deals don't get done in Israel b/c of the overarching fear that someone God Forbid might get a nickel more than the other party. So admit that your obsession with the Charedim is totally selfish, and has nothing to with "responsibility" or "duty" or any of the baloney you keep peddling. Its nothing more than pure jealousy, that the Charedim shouldn't "get away" with something you think you can't, that you shouldn't be a Fraiyer. Can we at least admit that? If so, we will be a little bit closer to resolution.
Well no, your point was that the people who are complaining are people who didn't serve and the others really don't have such an issue with it. That wasn't true in colonial America and it is not true with respect to the IDF exemptions for Charedim.
Your second argument is petty clearly wrong as it could be used to justify any and all unfair or discriminatory policies.
"But the charedi community, for the most part, is simply not experiencing this to anything like the same degree."
You write this in terms of soldiers enrolment in the army and risking their lives.
As a non Israeli Charedi it also occured to me that many of the reservists are abandoning their families and jobs. Leaving the bulk of the family responsibilities to their wives. Leaving the economical burden to their co workers. I wonder what Shabbos davening looks like. Is the shul noticeably emptier?
Meanwhile in Charedi world it all goes on as usual. The Kollel families have their husbands to help out. The shuls are as full as ever. The rebbeim in schools all appear for duty.
This is not a comment on whether the charedim should be doing what they're doing.
It's an observation on how hard it must be for those who are struggling with the absence of their menfolk to view another Israeli community who don't have that same struggle.
Our shul is noticeably emptier than usual, both on Shabbat and during the week, almost everyone has a son in the army right now. And during the week a lot of people come in uniform going directly from minyan back to their base.
When we pray for the welfare of soldiers, it is not only a general prayer for all soldiers, but a prayer for the guy who normally sits next to you, or the son of a neighbor, or a work-colleague who is literally risking his life right now.
I have no idea whether this is also the feeling in Haredi kollels and shuls
Conversely, we are seeing remarkable achdus amount Israel, whether it's chasidim in Ashdod dancing in the street near the home of the girl soldier who was saved, or non frum chayalim singing songs of emunah and bitochon, or charedim bringing food and supplies to the soldiers (Mr Graucher, etc)
Times are bleak and it's pockets of positivity like this that can encourage and inspire us.
for all my fellow chareidim here, slifkin has a point, that absolutely no chareidim are serving and he sees that as a flaw. he's probably not wrong. same as why chareidim as a society never ever go to work. sure, a few, maybe even a large percentage should be devoted to torah, but why the distain for hishtadlus? it's not like this in america as far as work is concerned. people go to work. but in israel its like a badge of shame and horror so no one does it. right now i wouldn't worry about any real issues like slifkin often does in his doomsday predictions, but its for sure not the nest way for so many (reb elya ber shlita once flipped the famous netziv story had he become a shoemaker they would've asked him in shamayim where his haamek she'ala was - they're going to ask some people who are in the beis midrash where they're shoes are;)
even in america the 'chareidim' (yeshivish) who go to work understand that it's second tier but they proudly put on that hat and become supporters who are machshiv nothing more than torah. we know hundreds of those. but in israel, as israel always was, everything has to be extreme. either full time learner or hater. so slifkin is calling it out. i see nothing wrong with his point. (if only he would admit the positives sometimes; it would come off a lot better)
but the real reason we find this issue - i'll admit it's an issue - is because we are the people who promote kulo torah, which is, no question, the lechatchila. see reb moshe igros yd vol. 4 siman 36 at length. we believe that this is the approach for the klal, and the individuals who don't fit in should ask advice from their rabbeim. most yeshivish/chareidi rabbeim will advise people to go to work at some point if that's where they're up to
but the 18 who never tasted torah fully need to be kulo torah to even know where they fit before making the proper decision to not make this huge decision uninformed. so that's our chinuch. which leads to many (in israel) ignoring life's responsibilities without proper justification.
the army, which is at 18 specifically is obviously more complicated than work for this reason
"How would we defend ourselves in a multi-front war, against not just Hamas, but also Hezbollah and Iran and a third Intifada and an uprising among Israeli Arabs? " (You forgot to mention the possibility that Iran may ח"ו go nuclear soon.)
Do you know anyone in the world that has the answer to this burning question? Do really believe that increasing the size of the army by a third will make that much of a difference in such a dire situation?
Perhaps it is time to reflect on who put us in such a dire situation.
Perhaps it is time to reflect on the idea that אין לנו להשען אלא אלא על אבינו, אבינו שבשמים.
Uh, yes, I think a 50% difference in the size of the army would make a significant difference. And I don't see why having them in yeshiva instead would help.
A large increase in economic output by educating another sector of society for gainful employment would also help a lot even if the army were its optimal size. We are relying on aid from other countries to stay afloat and that both comes with strings and may not last forever. In addition, right now, the callups leave the economy with gaping holes. The more gainfully employed, the less devastating the effect of callups.
There are plenty of very dedicated and believing Jews who serve so I don't know who "we" is. Defending the country is not a hypothetical and neither are the economic needs. So no, it think that your statement is demonstrably false.
I didn't say someone who serves is not religious. I said that someone who attacks all those who learn based on hypothetical scenarios, which is what you did, obviously does not understand the value of Torah and the fact that only immediate and extreme demands can necessitate closing yeshivos.
So those who learn full time and have cleared out of Yeshiva because they were called up to fight don't believe in the Torah? There is a war going on which is an immediate an extreme demand which is why those Yeshivas are emptied out from those called up. What hypothetical are you talking about? The emergency is happening *right now* and right now the country is in trouble and relies on the US for resupply and protection while it remains in an unsustainable economic position.
Do we need to keep going around in circles? I never criticized people going to the army. I responded to what you wrote "A large increase in economic output by educating another sector of society for gainful employment would also help a lot even if the army were its optimal size" etc.
agree with yehoshua here. you guys need to learn to come from our perspective, which like it or not is a valid Jewish perspective. we can argue that i think mine is the only valid and you think yours is the only valid but let's say that there are two sets both valid. if you wish to change our system, you must take into account what we believe. which is torah is really important. it is what we are here for.. it is how we get close to God. and as reb moshe says in his tshuva YD vol 4 siman 36, klal yorole needs gedolei yisroel and we are at a big lack even with the yeshiva system. every inividual chareidi who appreciates torah has an achrayos to keep it alive and thriving, paskening, teaching, living it. we need a system to cater to the idea of kulo torah even if there will be floaters as there are in every society.
if you argue on our grounds, appreciating our POV, we can probably brainstorm with the good minds here to try to implement.
if slifkin can't even admit that torah is important "And I don't see why having them in yeshiva instead would help." we are just talking past each other and the hate will continue, despite him thinking he is helping the cause. those who disagree will continue to and those who agree will continue to; he's preaching to the choir unless he changes his tune to acknowledge us where we are coming from
"you must take into account what we believe. which is torah is really important. it is what we are here for.. it is how we get close to God. and as reb moshe says in his tshuva YD vol 4 siman 36, klal yorole needs gedolei yisroel and we are at a big lack even with the yeshiva system."
Do you understand that there is a whole segment of Israeli society who believe all that and then go out to fight when there is a war AND that if they didn't do so, Israel would be in big trouble? In fact they serve in the IDF precicesly *because* they believe in the importance of Torah.
"R Adlerstein... made the point that Charedi life goes on more or less as usual, while the lives of other groups are very disrupted (where disrupted is a vast understatement)."
this is an important sentence. when this whole thing first broke out, i admit i was shaken up and very, very moved. my life was not the same. but times moves on and i find myself back to normal, which shouldn't be. i live in america so its a whole different story. but we should NOT be continuing the same old. it's achzarius even now to not remember those mothers/wives/children who's kids/husbands/fathers were sent to fight. 16 times whatever number of mothers and wives and children are never going to see there father husband or son again! many people just lost friends and cousins and brothers. we can't let time cool us off even if we are not serving personally for whatever reason.
My psychoanalyst, a former yeshivah student, informed me Monday morning that his young cousins in the IDF had relinquished their cell phones in anticipation of being sent into Gaza. His cousin David, my analyst said, was beside himself with worry for his son. As you poignantly state: a chasm divides Israeli society. "We put our children’s lives on the line for them, and they do not do the same for us. This is not unity. And when they make constant declarations about how they are fulfilling a role of equal or greater importance, it’s just adding insult to injury."
In this terrible moment, when all of us in the diaspora have the IDF and all Israelis engaged in meaningful work to help one another in this life, held closely in our thoughts, may I offer you the tiny comfort of Shakespeare's St. Crispin's day speech from Act IV of Henry V. The context: one of King Harry's knights (a cousin) , says "O that we now had here but one ten thousand of those men in England that do no work today" King Henry replies "What's he that wishes so? My cousin Westmorland? No . . . . wish not one man more. " The speech ends with the oft quoted 'band of brothers' evocation : "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile this day shall gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England now a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here. . . "
When they (your 80 shul members, nephews and all of our cousins) "outlive this day and come safe home" they will rightfully claim the right to create a different society.
Oddly, Rabbi Slifkin is busy teaching Torah. I personally support learning Torah as equally important as army service. So I support Rabbi Slifkin not serving in the army, as long as he's spending that time trying to do mitzvos, daven, and learn Torah
Fantastic article. You are 100% right. Although I am in the US I care deeply for the future of Israel. If the shared responsibility is not solved, we risk our future ownership of the land. This IS the time to talk about this.
Oh, please. Don't you understand rhetoric? "Apologizing" on an insignificant item is just a device to make one seem honest. It's like withdrawing a throwaway item in a list of demands, to make the real demands seem reasonable.
Wow, we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel when we are in a war, and we have to be "grateful" that other Jews are even saying Tehillim and donating blood.
By the way, this should be labelled as a "clarification", not as an apology- you have nothing to apologize for. Keep your thoughts coming, and keep them strong. Those of us here in Israel, who are experiencing the exact dichotomy you so aptly describe, are behind you all the way.
I am an Oleh Chadash and agree that your opinion is 100% valid.
In the lottery of life I was either too young or too old to be drafted (by the US Army).
Both my sons, on the other hand, served as lone soldiers in the IDF and made Aliyah after their service in the 2nd Lebanon war. My youngest was in Nahal Charedi and spent 6 years in Hesder.
This week I volunteered to pack underwear, socks, and t-shirts (tens of thousands of items) at a base near Haifa. Haredim could easily volunteer next to me on that assembly line, or the one I worked at where we packed the (kosher) food for thousands of troops.
Or perhaps, if they won’t step foot on an army base, all of their able bodies are needed to pick the produce that’s rotting in the fields. If they care so much about Chalav Yisroel load up a bus and milk the cows before they die!
Rant over.
Cut it out. The IDF doesn't take people past a certain age- a pretty low age- unless you try really, really hard, and even then it's not combat.
Why don't they? Maybe you should write a post about that. If the army would focus 0n adults above 28 perhaps they would have a lot more success drafting chareidim.
For the same reason that every other military recruits and drafts young people and extend the draft age as far as it needs to get the needed manpower. Are you aware of that?
SInce when do we copy other nations blindly?
Yidden have priorities and training our children to spend the prime of their youth engrossed in Torah study is our top priority.
Until Israeli society recognizes this they will never be able to work with the chareidim.
It is not blind following. It is for the same real reasons There are physical, mental and practical reasons that 18-22yo are going to do much better in combat and other highly stressful roles. And to remind you again, there are plenty of people who thing that Torah is a top priority but also serve. What it takes to be Chareidi is also subject to question. Seems to be axiomatic in Israel, that you can't be Chareidi and have secular education, yet the Charedi/Yeshivish here in America are able to do it. The Gerrer and others used to do national service (not sure what they do now). There are lots of possibilities if there was a will do to it, but there isn't.
You seems to be confused. Everyone eligible goes at a young age and then they are all subject to being called up. If they need more people they have to either make more people draft eligible (which is what you oppose) or else they have to call up older and older age reserves which has less benefit and higher cost, but yes that is what they might have to do if the war expands. The expansion you suggest is exactly what you oppose. Starting a recruitment drive among the few 28+ yo that were not eligible at 18 is not going to yield results; if they were useful they would have gotten them before. And they will be very limited as soldiers.
Samuel Johnson, in England, asked about the pre-1776 Americans, "How is it that the loudest yelps for liberty are heard from the drivers of negroes?"
We might ask the same: "How is it that the loudest complaints against charedim are heard from those who never served themselves?"
Because it's not true? It wasn't true in the American colonies either. His point is valid about the hypocrisy of using slavery metaphors when you hold slaves. But those from the anti-slavery parts of the North who also favored independence made the same observations about their colleagues. The first Massachusetts constitution was rejected in part because of insufficient anti-slavery provisions.
So you say the North weren't hypocrites, but concede the South were. OK, point still made.
Admit this much, and you too Nachum, if you're reading: The worst fear of any Israeli is God Forbid to be a Fraiyer. God Forbid that A should have something B doesn't. I cant tell you how many deals don't get done in Israel b/c of the overarching fear that someone God Forbid might get a nickel more than the other party. So admit that your obsession with the Charedim is totally selfish, and has nothing to with "responsibility" or "duty" or any of the baloney you keep peddling. Its nothing more than pure jealousy, that the Charedim shouldn't "get away" with something you think you can't, that you shouldn't be a Fraiyer. Can we at least admit that? If so, we will be a little bit closer to resolution.
Well no, your point was that the people who are complaining are people who didn't serve and the others really don't have such an issue with it. That wasn't true in colonial America and it is not true with respect to the IDF exemptions for Charedim.
Your second argument is petty clearly wrong as it could be used to justify any and all unfair or discriminatory policies.
You must be a truly vile person
It takes a lot of guts and humility to publicly admit one is wrong - qualities rarely seen in public. יישר כח
"But the charedi community, for the most part, is simply not experiencing this to anything like the same degree."
You write this in terms of soldiers enrolment in the army and risking their lives.
As a non Israeli Charedi it also occured to me that many of the reservists are abandoning their families and jobs. Leaving the bulk of the family responsibilities to their wives. Leaving the economical burden to their co workers. I wonder what Shabbos davening looks like. Is the shul noticeably emptier?
Meanwhile in Charedi world it all goes on as usual. The Kollel families have their husbands to help out. The shuls are as full as ever. The rebbeim in schools all appear for duty.
This is not a comment on whether the charedim should be doing what they're doing.
It's an observation on how hard it must be for those who are struggling with the absence of their menfolk to view another Israeli community who don't have that same struggle.
Right. My niece has five small children and hasn't seen her husband since Simchat Torah.
BTW this article is the 2nd top in substack ls religious category
cool! how do you check that?
Came up in notes.
well said.
Our shul is noticeably emptier than usual, both on Shabbat and during the week, almost everyone has a son in the army right now. And during the week a lot of people come in uniform going directly from minyan back to their base.
When we pray for the welfare of soldiers, it is not only a general prayer for all soldiers, but a prayer for the guy who normally sits next to you, or the son of a neighbor, or a work-colleague who is literally risking his life right now.
I have no idea whether this is also the feeling in Haredi kollels and shuls
Conversely, we are seeing remarkable achdus amount Israel, whether it's chasidim in Ashdod dancing in the street near the home of the girl soldier who was saved, or non frum chayalim singing songs of emunah and bitochon, or charedim bringing food and supplies to the soldiers (Mr Graucher, etc)
Times are bleak and it's pockets of positivity like this that can encourage and inspire us.
slifkin, thx for the clarification and apology.
for all my fellow chareidim here, slifkin has a point, that absolutely no chareidim are serving and he sees that as a flaw. he's probably not wrong. same as why chareidim as a society never ever go to work. sure, a few, maybe even a large percentage should be devoted to torah, but why the distain for hishtadlus? it's not like this in america as far as work is concerned. people go to work. but in israel its like a badge of shame and horror so no one does it. right now i wouldn't worry about any real issues like slifkin often does in his doomsday predictions, but its for sure not the nest way for so many (reb elya ber shlita once flipped the famous netziv story had he become a shoemaker they would've asked him in shamayim where his haamek she'ala was - they're going to ask some people who are in the beis midrash where they're shoes are;)
even in america the 'chareidim' (yeshivish) who go to work understand that it's second tier but they proudly put on that hat and become supporters who are machshiv nothing more than torah. we know hundreds of those. but in israel, as israel always was, everything has to be extreme. either full time learner or hater. so slifkin is calling it out. i see nothing wrong with his point. (if only he would admit the positives sometimes; it would come off a lot better)
but the real reason we find this issue - i'll admit it's an issue - is because we are the people who promote kulo torah, which is, no question, the lechatchila. see reb moshe igros yd vol. 4 siman 36 at length. we believe that this is the approach for the klal, and the individuals who don't fit in should ask advice from their rabbeim. most yeshivish/chareidi rabbeim will advise people to go to work at some point if that's where they're up to
but the 18 who never tasted torah fully need to be kulo torah to even know where they fit before making the proper decision to not make this huge decision uninformed. so that's our chinuch. which leads to many (in israel) ignoring life's responsibilities without proper justification.
the army, which is at 18 specifically is obviously more complicated than work for this reason
(i wrote a lot of this below https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/a-retraction-and-apology-and-a-non/comment/42887229 but it's really my response to the whole post so i'm doubling it)
the torah protects idea is of course true, but that isn't the reason why we don't join the army: https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/do-charedim-really-believe-that-torah/comment/42848369 let's be more nuanced here
You are exactly on point.
"How would we defend ourselves in a multi-front war, against not just Hamas, but also Hezbollah and Iran and a third Intifada and an uprising among Israeli Arabs? " (You forgot to mention the possibility that Iran may ח"ו go nuclear soon.)
Do you know anyone in the world that has the answer to this burning question? Do really believe that increasing the size of the army by a third will make that much of a difference in such a dire situation?
Perhaps it is time to reflect on who put us in such a dire situation.
Perhaps it is time to reflect on the idea that אין לנו להשען אלא אלא על אבינו, אבינו שבשמים.
Uh, yes, I think a 50% difference in the size of the army would make a significant difference. And I don't see why having them in yeshiva instead would help.
"a significant difference" doesn't answer my question. There is no answer to the question I began my comment with other than the last sentence.
אין לנו על מי להשען אלא על אבינו שבשמים
Your last sentence here shows that there is no way to have a conversation with you.
They can. This was just full mobilization, and full mobilization is going to strain logistics to the maximum.
There would also be a significantly bigger economic engine to pay for all that.
A large increase in economic output by educating another sector of society for gainful employment would also help a lot even if the army were its optimal size. We are relying on aid from other countries to stay afloat and that both comes with strings and may not last forever. In addition, right now, the callups leave the economy with gaping holes. The more gainfully employed, the less devastating the effect of callups.
Do you agree that this is just a question of believing in the Torah or not?
For those who believe in the Torah these kind of hypothetical arguments have little value.
We only take people out of learning for a concrete and clear הצלת ישראלץ
There are plenty of very dedicated and believing Jews who serve so I don't know who "we" is. Defending the country is not a hypothetical and neither are the economic needs. So no, it think that your statement is demonstrably false.
I didn't say someone who serves is not religious. I said that someone who attacks all those who learn based on hypothetical scenarios, which is what you did, obviously does not understand the value of Torah and the fact that only immediate and extreme demands can necessitate closing yeshivos.
So those who learn full time and have cleared out of Yeshiva because they were called up to fight don't believe in the Torah? There is a war going on which is an immediate an extreme demand which is why those Yeshivas are emptied out from those called up. What hypothetical are you talking about? The emergency is happening *right now* and right now the country is in trouble and relies on the US for resupply and protection while it remains in an unsustainable economic position.
Do we need to keep going around in circles? I never criticized people going to the army. I responded to what you wrote "A large increase in economic output by educating another sector of society for gainful employment would also help a lot even if the army were its optimal size" etc.
Why do you keep changing the topic?
agree with yehoshua here. you guys need to learn to come from our perspective, which like it or not is a valid Jewish perspective. we can argue that i think mine is the only valid and you think yours is the only valid but let's say that there are two sets both valid. if you wish to change our system, you must take into account what we believe. which is torah is really important. it is what we are here for.. it is how we get close to God. and as reb moshe says in his tshuva YD vol 4 siman 36, klal yorole needs gedolei yisroel and we are at a big lack even with the yeshiva system. every inividual chareidi who appreciates torah has an achrayos to keep it alive and thriving, paskening, teaching, living it. we need a system to cater to the idea of kulo torah even if there will be floaters as there are in every society.
if you argue on our grounds, appreciating our POV, we can probably brainstorm with the good minds here to try to implement.
if slifkin can't even admit that torah is important "And I don't see why having them in yeshiva instead would help." we are just talking past each other and the hate will continue, despite him thinking he is helping the cause. those who disagree will continue to and those who agree will continue to; he's preaching to the choir unless he changes his tune to acknowledge us where we are coming from
"you must take into account what we believe. which is torah is really important. it is what we are here for.. it is how we get close to God. and as reb moshe says in his tshuva YD vol 4 siman 36, klal yorole needs gedolei yisroel and we are at a big lack even with the yeshiva system."
Do you understand that there is a whole segment of Israeli society who believe all that and then go out to fight when there is a war AND that if they didn't do so, Israel would be in big trouble? In fact they serve in the IDF precicesly *because* they believe in the importance of Torah.
"We put our children’s lives on the line for them, and they do not do the same for us"
Bingo
anyone know whats open now I am craving good ice cream or something cold?
oh, nate, nate, nate. why are you up so late?
i was reading @zookeepers books. so good real talk shel, im starving though whats open. delivery would be ideal
nate is it a coincidence you share a name with the zoo-ologist himself?
no
expound
can i come over now for some microwave popcorn and a movie? (sorry we are texting in the comment section, whatsapp is down)
like im actually starving.
fellow chareidim, especially americans:
https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/a-retraction-and-apology-and-a-non/comment/42903528
"R Adlerstein... made the point that Charedi life goes on more or less as usual, while the lives of other groups are very disrupted (where disrupted is a vast understatement)."
this is an important sentence. when this whole thing first broke out, i admit i was shaken up and very, very moved. my life was not the same. but times moves on and i find myself back to normal, which shouldn't be. i live in america so its a whole different story. but we should NOT be continuing the same old. it's achzarius even now to not remember those mothers/wives/children who's kids/husbands/fathers were sent to fight. 16 times whatever number of mothers and wives and children are never going to see there father husband or son again! many people just lost friends and cousins and brothers. we can't let time cool us off even if we are not serving personally for whatever reason.
My psychoanalyst, a former yeshivah student, informed me Monday morning that his young cousins in the IDF had relinquished their cell phones in anticipation of being sent into Gaza. His cousin David, my analyst said, was beside himself with worry for his son. As you poignantly state: a chasm divides Israeli society. "We put our children’s lives on the line for them, and they do not do the same for us. This is not unity. And when they make constant declarations about how they are fulfilling a role of equal or greater importance, it’s just adding insult to injury."
In this terrible moment, when all of us in the diaspora have the IDF and all Israelis engaged in meaningful work to help one another in this life, held closely in our thoughts, may I offer you the tiny comfort of Shakespeare's St. Crispin's day speech from Act IV of Henry V. The context: one of King Harry's knights (a cousin) , says "O that we now had here but one ten thousand of those men in England that do no work today" King Henry replies "What's he that wishes so? My cousin Westmorland? No . . . . wish not one man more. " The speech ends with the oft quoted 'band of brothers' evocation : "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile this day shall gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England now a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here. . . "
When they (your 80 shul members, nephews and all of our cousins) "outlive this day and come safe home" they will rightfully claim the right to create a different society.
Thank you for your brave posts.
Oddly, Rabbi Slifkin is busy teaching Torah. I personally support learning Torah as equally important as army service. So I support Rabbi Slifkin not serving in the army, as long as he's spending that time trying to do mitzvos, daven, and learn Torah
Maybe show some yirah that we will end up with small inferior forces if not everyone who qualifies is called to serve.
אלה ברכב ואלה בסוסים ואנחנו בשם ה' אלוקינו נזכיר
ה' הושיע
Yay, let's disband the IDF!
Fantastic article. You are 100% right. Although I am in the US I care deeply for the future of Israel. If the shared responsibility is not solved, we risk our future ownership of the land. This IS the time to talk about this.
thank you for your apology @zookeeperboy613 as an american yeshiva student i was pretty hurt by your initial post
C'mon, you can troll better than that.
It takes a massive amount of guts and humility to publicly admit one is wrong -qualities rarely seen. יישר כח
Oh, please. Don't you understand rhetoric? "Apologizing" on an insignificant item is just a device to make one seem honest. It's like withdrawing a throwaway item in a list of demands, to make the real demands seem reasonable.
lol, yes. The "apology" sets up the non-apology.