you won't admit it but you hate orthodox rabbis bitterly. probably because of the bad things they said about you. i remember how you utterly destroyed rabbi nissan kaplan's reputation due to a statement he said which was taken out of context and spread to non-torah people who are incapable of understand him. you are the first who needs to apologize but i know your arrogance won't let you.
interesting; I know personally the lawyer of Yeshivat Mir and Edah Haredit. According to my understanding, the jewish halahah deals with civil law, not criminal law. An offense of defamation, the purpose of which is to make it difficult for a person to function as a citizen of the country, is a criminal offense. There is no law in this area in the Halacha, therefore it is also impossible to sue someone in this matter in the Halacha. The claim that what cannot be sued in a halachic court is not included in the prohibitions at all is completely false. As for this, the Halacha recognizes the king's duty to enact laws for the benefit of the state. This includes a trial by judges who are not halachically certified, evidence that is not admissible in the law of the Torah, and punishments that according to the halachic law are forbidden to be given. In today's reality, the great rabbis of religious Zionism ruled that since Jews choose the leadership, it has the legal status of a king. See the Shutim on the subject of all the Zionist chief rabbis.
There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings about both halachah and secular law in this comment.
It is not accurate to assert that “the jewish halahah deals with civil law, not criminal law”. Simple examples of halachot pertaining to criminal law include “don’t murder” and “don’t steal”. Rather, in modern society, batei din are not able to impose criminal penalties b/c they are themselves subject to the sovereign legal systems of the secular countries in which they function (including the State of Israel), so they are limited to adjudicating civil matters (typically under the rubric of “arbitration”).
It is also not accurate to state that “ An offense of defamation … is a criminal offense”, at least in most non-theocratic, first-world countries. If it were, it wouldn’t be up to the “victim” to sue the “offender”, it would be up to the state to prosecute (as with murder or theft), as do many theocratic regimes (that criminalize “blasphemous” speech) and autocratic regimes (that criminalize criticism of the dear leader).
Furthermore, I certainly do not think it is the case that just b/c you can’t sue someone for a particular offense in beit din, that automatically gives you license to resort to secular court (whether in the State of Israel or anywhere else).
You are right and wrong. Today, rabbinical courts are authorized to hear only property disputes. Shouldn't we therefore judge a murderer and a rapist? drug dealer? We will judge them in the criminal law of the country. Defamation is emotionally damaging and therefore Hebrew law does not deal with it. But when it harms the functioning of society, and here we are talking about the functioning of a government and a prime minister, then the harm is not financial but to society and the country as a whole. It's already a matter of soul control - because this is the basic halachic criterion for the laws of a king, see Natziv in his commentary to the King's Law in the Torah. By the way, this fundamental halachic principle obliges every public figure to make decisions solely according to a scale of Pikuah Nefesh of the state as a whole and rejects any other value.
A free country allows any speech, even if it harms the country itself. Therefore, it will not initiate legal proceedings against those who practically harm the functioning of the government by brainwashing the whole state with false accusations. The situation is different with the government official. His duty is to fight against the spread of falsehoods aimed at harming the day-to-day functioning of a government.
The Bet din system does not recognize any difference between civil cases and criminal cases.
They just cant sentence someone to a criminal punishment as a practical matter.
Libel, or is it slander, I get the two confused, is a criminal manner in a number of Western countries. France and Italy comes to mind. In fact, in Italy, the family participates in criminal trials too. Even in the US, libel and slander used to be criminal matters, and I doubt those laws were revoked, but I doubt any court will entertain such a case.
The Kastner case, if you recall, was prosecuted by the state, not by Kastner himself.
(See , extreme Charedim get involved everywhere.)
And by the way, lashon harrah and rechilut are subject to monetary damages in a bet din, but very very few batei din will get involved.
Why are they claiming hes mother is a convert ?? As far as I understand they found this information in the archives of citizens in united states and they have this proof. If so however uncomfortable this may be if it's TRUE it's TRUE ?!?!
1. This is a slander suit not a libel suit. The statements were verbal.
2. The criticism of Bennett, if he did not get permission, is valid as he is dati. This, however, may be mitigated by the fact that the judge will probably refer them to mediation.
“I wanted to sue the rosh yeshivah that had libelled me. Alas, I discovered that there is no way to work around the fact that it just isn’t permissible according to Jewish law. It is a clear prohibition in the Shulchan Aruch, based on a Gemara, to resort to secular law rather than Torah law.”
To me, It seems inconsistent to believe that the State of Israel has halakhic significance for the Jewish people and repeatedly write how Haredim should serve in the IDF and support the local economy while at the same time shunning the established judicial system.
Irrespective of the halachic significance of the medinah, I don’t think anyone would argue that its secular court system is equivalent to the traditional beis din system (correct me if I’m wrong; I imagine “shailos and t’shuvos” have been asked and answered on this topic over the past 75 yrs).
you won't admit it but you hate orthodox rabbis bitterly. probably because of the bad things they said about you. i remember how you utterly destroyed rabbi nissan kaplan's reputation due to a statement he said which was taken out of context and spread to non-torah people who are incapable of understand him. you are the first who needs to apologize but i know your arrogance won't let you.
interesting; I know personally the lawyer of Yeshivat Mir and Edah Haredit. According to my understanding, the jewish halahah deals with civil law, not criminal law. An offense of defamation, the purpose of which is to make it difficult for a person to function as a citizen of the country, is a criminal offense. There is no law in this area in the Halacha, therefore it is also impossible to sue someone in this matter in the Halacha. The claim that what cannot be sued in a halachic court is not included in the prohibitions at all is completely false. As for this, the Halacha recognizes the king's duty to enact laws for the benefit of the state. This includes a trial by judges who are not halachically certified, evidence that is not admissible in the law of the Torah, and punishments that according to the halachic law are forbidden to be given. In today's reality, the great rabbis of religious Zionism ruled that since Jews choose the leadership, it has the legal status of a king. See the Shutim on the subject of all the Zionist chief rabbis.
There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings about both halachah and secular law in this comment.
It is not accurate to assert that “the jewish halahah deals with civil law, not criminal law”. Simple examples of halachot pertaining to criminal law include “don’t murder” and “don’t steal”. Rather, in modern society, batei din are not able to impose criminal penalties b/c they are themselves subject to the sovereign legal systems of the secular countries in which they function (including the State of Israel), so they are limited to adjudicating civil matters (typically under the rubric of “arbitration”).
It is also not accurate to state that “ An offense of defamation … is a criminal offense”, at least in most non-theocratic, first-world countries. If it were, it wouldn’t be up to the “victim” to sue the “offender”, it would be up to the state to prosecute (as with murder or theft), as do many theocratic regimes (that criminalize “blasphemous” speech) and autocratic regimes (that criminalize criticism of the dear leader).
Furthermore, I certainly do not think it is the case that just b/c you can’t sue someone for a particular offense in beit din, that automatically gives you license to resort to secular court (whether in the State of Israel or anywhere else).
You are right and wrong. Today, rabbinical courts are authorized to hear only property disputes. Shouldn't we therefore judge a murderer and a rapist? drug dealer? We will judge them in the criminal law of the country. Defamation is emotionally damaging and therefore Hebrew law does not deal with it. But when it harms the functioning of society, and here we are talking about the functioning of a government and a prime minister, then the harm is not financial but to society and the country as a whole. It's already a matter of soul control - because this is the basic halachic criterion for the laws of a king, see Natziv in his commentary to the King's Law in the Torah. By the way, this fundamental halachic principle obliges every public figure to make decisions solely according to a scale of Pikuah Nefesh of the state as a whole and rejects any other value.
A free country allows any speech, even if it harms the country itself. Therefore, it will not initiate legal proceedings against those who practically harm the functioning of the government by brainwashing the whole state with false accusations. The situation is different with the government official. His duty is to fight against the spread of falsehoods aimed at harming the day-to-day functioning of a government.
The Bet din system does not recognize any difference between civil cases and criminal cases.
They just cant sentence someone to a criminal punishment as a practical matter.
Libel, or is it slander, I get the two confused, is a criminal manner in a number of Western countries. France and Italy comes to mind. In fact, in Italy, the family participates in criminal trials too. Even in the US, libel and slander used to be criminal matters, and I doubt those laws were revoked, but I doubt any court will entertain such a case.
The Kastner case, if you recall, was prosecuted by the state, not by Kastner himself.
(See , extreme Charedim get involved everywhere.)
And by the way, lashon harrah and rechilut are subject to monetary damages in a bet din, but very very few batei din will get involved.
Not exactly correct. Battei din have the power to set an amount based on peshara (compromise). It is set forth in the arbitration agreement.
That's Pesharah, not Din Torah.
Why are they claiming hes mother is a convert ?? As far as I understand they found this information in the archives of citizens in united states and they have this proof. If so however uncomfortable this may be if it's TRUE it's TRUE ?!?!
There is an analysis in YWN on both slandering and suing a Jew in a secular court https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2146043/former-pm-bennett-sues-a-rabbi-halachic-analysis.html
1. This is a slander suit not a libel suit. The statements were verbal.
2. The criticism of Bennett, if he did not get permission, is valid as he is dati. This, however, may be mitigated by the fact that the judge will probably refer them to mediation.
“I wanted to sue the rosh yeshivah that had libelled me. Alas, I discovered that there is no way to work around the fact that it just isn’t permissible according to Jewish law. It is a clear prohibition in the Shulchan Aruch, based on a Gemara, to resort to secular law rather than Torah law.”
To me, It seems inconsistent to believe that the State of Israel has halakhic significance for the Jewish people and repeatedly write how Haredim should serve in the IDF and support the local economy while at the same time shunning the established judicial system.
Irrespective of the halachic significance of the medinah, I don’t think anyone would argue that its secular court system is equivalent to the traditional beis din system (correct me if I’m wrong; I imagine “shailos and t’shuvos” have been asked and answered on this topic over the past 75 yrs).
A libel suit to support financially? Is this lawsuit being crowdfunded?
No, Bennett does not need financial support. I was talking about moral support.