You can’t believe all the advertising signs put up outside of shops. Unless you get it directly from the owner, you have to assume it is a rumor. Do you think that the owner has time to protest every offensive advertising sign outside their shop?
I was responding to a subthread to R Slifkin who likely understood what I was writing. Not all jokes work and certainly not for all people; if one can’t live with one doesn’t write them or consume them.
No one is apologizing for this stupid sign and the fact that this represents an attitude is awful, but be honest, this is more "hock" than anything else of importance.
These people really make me angry. How is this Torah Judaism to make fun of war of any kind never mind when it affects your own people? They like to say that it is because of those of us who do not follow their branch of Judaism is why the moshiach has not come. It doesnt even dawn on these selfrighteous a*holes that the Moshiach is not coming because of their attitudes toward their fellow Jews. It is time for the State of Israel to remove all benefits for these leeches
The Charedim have revealed themselves for what they are, the Second of the Four Sons. Let them be slaves in Egypt until they consider themselves part of Israel
September 1940. France had fallen to the Nazis less than three months earlier and the anti-Semitic Vichy regime was in power there. The Nazis were bombing Britain mercilessly.
The America First Committee was formed then, with prominent anti-Semites and Nazi sympathizers among its leaders. By one account it had an incredible 800,000 members, drawn from both political parties. The America First crowd was frustrated that both political parties had nominated candidates for President who were fully aware of the danger of the Nazis and opposed the America First isolationism. America First members thought that what was going on in Europe was totally irrelevant to the United States. "It isn't our war" was a common sentiment.
There were even some prominent Jews who signed on. :(
The America First Committee was dissolved December 11, 1941, the day Hitler and Mussolini declared war on the United States.
I honestly have no idea why you brought this up: Charedim aren't Israel-firsters or isolationists; they are, at best, Israel-nothings. (And at worst Israel-nevers.)
But you can't talk about American isolationism and try to make it seem evil without acknowledging that for most of American history- practically all of it until 1941*- the US was a proudly isolationist country, following the advice of one G. Washington. They may have been wrong, but the America Firsters (those who weren't actual Nazis, of course) of 1940 were more following American tradition than others (and, honestly, *no one* was pushing for the US to get into the war) might have been.
*The US always took an interest in Latin America, as they saw it as their southern flank. Hence the Monroe Doctrine and the Mexican War, although even the latter was strongly opposed by many- then-Congressman Abraham Lincoln spoke and voted against it. Even the US' first big international push, the Spanish-American War, might be seen as part of that.
The only other major example was World War I, which the US entered late and which was madness all around. The suicide of the West, some call it. Having done that, you can understand why Americans would want no part of it.
Of course, the US is a huge country oceans on two sides and more-or-less friendly neighbors on the other two. Israel doesn't have that luxury.
Just as the America Firsters thought that the wars in Europe and Asia weren't their wars...
"the US was a proudly isolationist country"
That is a spectacular falsehood:
Quasi war with France.
First Barbary War
War of 1812
Second Barbary War
Invasion of Spanish Florida
Mexican-American War
Gunboat diplomacy in Japan
US expedition to Korea
Overthrow of Hawaii government
Spanish-American War
Philippine-American War
Intervention in China during Boxer Rebellion
Detaching Panama from Columbia
Occupation of Cuba
Occupation of Haiti
Occupation of Dominican Republic
Occupation of Nicaragua
Occupation of Veracruz
Pancho Villa Expedition
World War I
Intervention in Russian Civil War
All before 1920.
"Hence the Monroe Doctrine and the Mexican War"
The Monrow Doctrine was about keeping Europe from recolonizing the Western Hemisphere. The Mexican-American War was an unapologetic war of conquest.
The America First Movement had as its supporters some of the worst anti-Semites in America, including Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Both were open sympathizers with the Nazi movement. I am surprised you don't understand that.
"more-or-less friendly neighbors"
Want to be friendly. The US has invaded Canada once and Mexico three times. That doesn't make for friendships.
The vast majority of those you listed were in the Western Hemisphere, which the US saw as its backyard. Most of the rest were to directly protect American commericial interests.
I did say that the America Firsters of 1940 may have been wrong. (Obviously they were, as was proven when Japan attacked and Germany and Italy then declared war. I also said at least some of them were Nazis. I also said "more or less." I basically used words that conceded every one of your points. I'm not sure why you chose not to see them.
I still don't see what any of this has to do with charedim in Israel.
Mostly agree with Nachum here, but 2 things. One is that the US almost certainly could have stayed out WWII. Roosevelt maneuvered us into war (a good idea from the Jewish perspective) by not remaining neutral (e.g. lend-lease and the economic sanctions on Japan.). And many very prominent firsters like Lindbergh and Ford were anti-semitic and racists. There were those who just wanted to stay of the war, but there was also a lot of antisemitism and racism in the movement.
It should be mentioned that when the war broke out, Lindbergh volunteered to fight. He was rejected from actual service because of his public stances, so became an aviation advisor (with Ford) so that he was able to eventually actually serve in combat in the Pacific, and even shot down a Japanese plane. Lindbergh was definitely an anti-Semite but condemned the actual Nazi treatment of Jews, and the Nazis in general. (A number of prominent of anti-Semites of that time were similar- when the actual persecutions started they had a bit, or more than a bit, of a wake-up.)
Ford I'm not going to apologize for, except of course he directed his company to get fully into war production well before the US got into it directly.
It would help their argument if those lecturing us about how charedim have to learn full-time weren't such obvious hypocrites. (Of course, then they wouldn't be here to lecture us.)
I think it's basically "the North and South are on fire because of the war, but here in Meah Shearim our only war is on the prices" or something.
My Arab dentist, who comes from up north, recently sighed to me that in the north and south they get war, and while in Jerusalem we don't, we get terror attacks.
Just explain to me as though I am stupid, what does this have to do with Charedim? Does it even belong to a Charedi? Why does anyone but the advertising firm and the shoe store have to apologize?
Right now the chareidi apologists are deciding whether to claim that it's unrepresentative or that it's no big deal.
You can’t believe all the advertising signs put up outside of shops. Unless you get it directly from the owner, you have to assume it is a rumor. Do you think that the owner has time to protest every offensive advertising sign outside their shop?
Yeah, I would think it would rather important for the shop's PR and a prime concern of the owner.
Sorry, my comment was parody.
@D. Ohsie
Unless it’s over the top, sarcasm doesn’t come across well in response to idiocy on blog posts.
I was responding to a subthread to R Slifkin who likely understood what I was writing. Not all jokes work and certainly not for all people; if one can’t live with one doesn’t write them or consume them.
No one is apologizing for this stupid sign and the fact that this represents an attitude is awful, but be honest, this is more "hock" than anything else of importance.
I forgot to add - Robby commented to someone near the sign about how tasteless it is. The person smiled and replied, "In our community, it isn't."
These people really make me angry. How is this Torah Judaism to make fun of war of any kind never mind when it affects your own people? They like to say that it is because of those of us who do not follow their branch of Judaism is why the moshiach has not come. It doesnt even dawn on these selfrighteous a*holes that the Moshiach is not coming because of their attitudes toward their fellow Jews. It is time for the State of Israel to remove all benefits for these leeches
Great point!
Heels with no souls.
The Charedim have revealed themselves for what they are, the Second of the Four Sons. Let them be slaves in Egypt until they consider themselves part of Israel
I usually don't comment on this issue, but that sign really is terrible.
Disgusting. What would be done if this were an Arab-owned shop?
Doesn’t Torah say “Do not stand idly by, while your brother bleeds!”
Not their Torah
This is bleeping immoral.
Awful
September 1940. France had fallen to the Nazis less than three months earlier and the anti-Semitic Vichy regime was in power there. The Nazis were bombing Britain mercilessly.
The America First Committee was formed then, with prominent anti-Semites and Nazi sympathizers among its leaders. By one account it had an incredible 800,000 members, drawn from both political parties. The America First crowd was frustrated that both political parties had nominated candidates for President who were fully aware of the danger of the Nazis and opposed the America First isolationism. America First members thought that what was going on in Europe was totally irrelevant to the United States. "It isn't our war" was a common sentiment.
There were even some prominent Jews who signed on. :(
The America First Committee was dissolved December 11, 1941, the day Hitler and Mussolini declared war on the United States.
I honestly have no idea why you brought this up: Charedim aren't Israel-firsters or isolationists; they are, at best, Israel-nothings. (And at worst Israel-nevers.)
But you can't talk about American isolationism and try to make it seem evil without acknowledging that for most of American history- practically all of it until 1941*- the US was a proudly isolationist country, following the advice of one G. Washington. They may have been wrong, but the America Firsters (those who weren't actual Nazis, of course) of 1940 were more following American tradition than others (and, honestly, *no one* was pushing for the US to get into the war) might have been.
*The US always took an interest in Latin America, as they saw it as their southern flank. Hence the Monroe Doctrine and the Mexican War, although even the latter was strongly opposed by many- then-Congressman Abraham Lincoln spoke and voted against it. Even the US' first big international push, the Spanish-American War, might be seen as part of that.
The only other major example was World War I, which the US entered late and which was madness all around. The suicide of the West, some call it. Having done that, you can understand why Americans would want no part of it.
Of course, the US is a huge country oceans on two sides and more-or-less friendly neighbors on the other two. Israel doesn't have that luxury.
"the US was a proudly isolationist country"
Just as the America Firsters thought that the wars in Europe and Asia weren't their wars...
"the US was a proudly isolationist country"
That is a spectacular falsehood:
Quasi war with France.
First Barbary War
War of 1812
Second Barbary War
Invasion of Spanish Florida
Mexican-American War
Gunboat diplomacy in Japan
US expedition to Korea
Overthrow of Hawaii government
Spanish-American War
Philippine-American War
Intervention in China during Boxer Rebellion
Detaching Panama from Columbia
Occupation of Cuba
Occupation of Haiti
Occupation of Dominican Republic
Occupation of Nicaragua
Occupation of Veracruz
Pancho Villa Expedition
World War I
Intervention in Russian Civil War
All before 1920.
"Hence the Monroe Doctrine and the Mexican War"
The Monrow Doctrine was about keeping Europe from recolonizing the Western Hemisphere. The Mexican-American War was an unapologetic war of conquest.
The America First Movement had as its supporters some of the worst anti-Semites in America, including Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Both were open sympathizers with the Nazi movement. I am surprised you don't understand that.
"more-or-less friendly neighbors"
Want to be friendly. The US has invaded Canada once and Mexico three times. That doesn't make for friendships.
The vast majority of those you listed were in the Western Hemisphere, which the US saw as its backyard. Most of the rest were to directly protect American commericial interests.
I did say that the America Firsters of 1940 may have been wrong. (Obviously they were, as was proven when Japan attacked and Germany and Italy then declared war. I also said at least some of them were Nazis. I also said "more or less." I basically used words that conceded every one of your points. I'm not sure why you chose not to see them.
I still don't see what any of this has to do with charedim in Israel.
Mostly agree with Nachum here, but 2 things. One is that the US almost certainly could have stayed out WWII. Roosevelt maneuvered us into war (a good idea from the Jewish perspective) by not remaining neutral (e.g. lend-lease and the economic sanctions on Japan.). And many very prominent firsters like Lindbergh and Ford were anti-semitic and racists. There were those who just wanted to stay of the war, but there was also a lot of antisemitism and racism in the movement.
I agree on both.
It should be mentioned that when the war broke out, Lindbergh volunteered to fight. He was rejected from actual service because of his public stances, so became an aviation advisor (with Ford) so that he was able to eventually actually serve in combat in the Pacific, and even shot down a Japanese plane. Lindbergh was definitely an anti-Semite but condemned the actual Nazi treatment of Jews, and the Nazis in general. (A number of prominent of anti-Semites of that time were similar- when the actual persecutions started they had a bit, or more than a bit, of a wake-up.)
Ford I'm not going to apologize for, except of course he directed his company to get fully into war production well before the US got into it directly.
Hey, otherwise, all those years spent studying history are wasted, lying fallow...
Arrghh! Those darn haredim!
https://images.app.goo.gl/39nwM2vuuyVvKBmV6
It would help their argument if those lecturing us about how charedim have to learn full-time weren't such obvious hypocrites. (Of course, then they wouldn't be here to lecture us.)
Scribal Error today has something to say regarding Torah interpretation vs. and Bavli study. Could this be a basis for their blocked bias?
Kind of disgusting.
I will confess my ignorance. I neither understand the comment on the sign, nor what it has to do with shoes.
I think it's basically "the North and South are on fire because of the war, but here in Meah Shearim our only war is on the prices" or something.
My Arab dentist, who comes from up north, recently sighed to me that in the north and south they get war, and while in Jerusalem we don't, we get terror attacks.
Nothing of course! Just pure, crass, American, materialistic capitalism.
They'll take a buck (shekel) anyway they can.
It kinda reminds me of the Memorial Day sales in the US. People are totally oblivious to how crude that sounds
The war Memorial Day marks ended over a hundred and fifty years ago.
Just explain to me as though I am stupid, what does this have to do with Charedim? Does it even belong to a Charedi? Why does anyone but the advertising firm and the shoe store have to apologize?
Well yes. It does take a special kind of stupid (yours) to deny that a shoe store in meah shearim would have anything to do with other than hareidim
Well, in fairness, we do sometimes go to Charediland to get shoes. But yeah, it's mostly not our kind.
You mean nisht unzerer