This is fake news. Quite typical of NS, unfortunately. Contrary to his claims, the Chief Rabbi made no "declaration", made no "statement", and said nothing "in response" to anything. You can never trust anything he says, but the easiest dead giveaway is when he doesn't give a quote, and hides the link. That's when its painfully obvious.
He spoke in Hebrew, did he not? So quote a Hebrew site, like Maariv. Which stated that he was speaking "b'shiur, im talmidav". (In class, with his students.) Not a "declaration", not a "statement", and nothing "in response" to anything.
Absolutely 100% this. Chareidim need to learn that Eretz Yisrael is the home of the Jewish people. Not Monsey! Not Brooklyn! Not Lakewood! Not Teaneck!
It's like the rhetoric from Dems in the US in 2016 (and some now too) that they will leave if Trump gets in. Fun to use by the other side to denigrate them, but ultimately not really a literal statement. Maybe some will leave, maybe not, but ultimately people mostly deal with the new realities on the ground. Much more likely lots of civil disobedience, lots of bins being burnt.
Probably tens of thousands of chareidi ashkenazim have a great grandparent from Poland, which gives them right to apply for citizenship to Poland and the right to live anywhere in the EU. No requirement for pursuit of college education. Chareidim do fine in chu"l, although I'm sure they would be sad to leave. If the non-chareidim really hate the chareidim that much, this might be the best possible arrangement for everybody.
"But there are still conditions to immigration. And one of the most basic is that the immigrant group are economically beneficial to the country rather than creating an economic burden. They must enter the workforce. They must pay taxes rather than just take welfare benefits. They must create a net benefit for the country."
Besides for Poland's citizenship rule, the millions of African migrants to Europe and Hispanic immigrant to the US show that there are definitely no such conditions, which you just made up off the top of your head.
Perhaps a side point, but *please* tell me you're not that naive and/or accepting of official narratives. Or perhaps you are just not attuned to current events in other countries, which is perhaps a bit more excusable. (Israel has plenty of current events of its own.) But come on: This is perhaps *the* major issue in the US, the UK, and much of Europe: The indiscriminate admission of immigrants. If the only issue were immigration as such, the charedim would sail through.
Except, of course, that the gates are not open for people of charedi complexion or religion. So it's a wash.
I will say that charedim have great skill in manipulating systems (a skill much needed when more honest methods are not available), including those of immigration and citizenship, so maybe some can manage. A million, obviously not.
Let's all delve into this tooth fairy science. We'll talk rationally and explain away all the legal, logistical, diplomatic and economic details of transferring a million חרדי Jews because they don't want to serve in their own country, even though their own leadership in the not-to-distant past (i.e. the post-אחרונים era) have endorsed military service.
Stop it.
It's not going to happen.
Rav Yosef's comments were hyperbole. (Stick with his fine ספרים, and ignore the populist דרוש)
(I also find all the talk of encouraging Charedim to leave distasteful. Sure, the concept of תקיא הארץ אתכם may perhaps be applicable. But I see no reason to force such a mass emigration. We need them to stay and be מקרב them to observe all מצות, not just Torah study.)
"even though their own leadership in the not-to-distant past (i.e. the post-אחרונים era) have endorsed military service."
A much bigger fantasy that Ephraim thinks that his interpretation of what their leadership may or may not have done 70 years ago has any bearing on chareidim's views in 2024.
"It's not going to happen."
Why are you so sure? I can tell you a mass enlistment of chareidim will for sure not happen. Emigration might be the best alternative for everybody. Let the chilonim have their secular country for as long as Hashem has patience for them.
" But I see no reason to force such a mass emigration."
I also see no need for it. It doesn't help the manpower problem (to the extent there is one) if chareidim leave. So it's just another expression of their hatred.
"We need them to stay and be מקרב them to observe all מצות, not just Torah study"
It's interesting, I never ever see you talking about being מקרב the chilonim. This demonstrates that such statements are insincere and cynical, and your ideology is much more secularist than religious (if you are even religious at all).
Israel is in a perpetual war, and when they talk about forcing chareidim to join the army, they are talking about jailing them and persecuting them in other ways, not just cutting off stipends.
You cannot claim asylum because you want to get out of military service in your country of origin, no matter what the consequences are. The only exception would be for a conscientious objector.
I don't know about that. "A person whose refusal to perform military service is based on genuine religious, moral or political convictions can also be considered a refugee, provided that the genuineness of such convictions and the likelihood of prosecution and sanction, or other treatment amounting to persecution, are established."
I'm not saying it would work for sure, they would need to get the lawyers and askanim involved. Ultimately, Hashem is in charge. If he wants us to be persecuted, it will happen no matter what.
Who says that makes a difference? You made that up on the spot. Suppose everybody in the army had to accept Jesus and kiss the crucifix. Who said that wouldn't be a religious objection?
100%. How can they claim asylum with no cause? And why should they claim asylum? I am of the opinion that it is an honor to serve for Tzahal. However, the military needs to make many fixes to absorb such a religiously conservative population.
He probably doesn't, but he may have ancestors that were expelled from Spain! But to tell the truth, somebody high status like him could probably go almost anywhere.
The Yosefs are from Iraq. That's Mizrachi, not Sephardi or any connection to Spain at all. Ovadia Yosef's wife was from Aleppo, so there may have been some Sephardi in there, but not necessarily. (I once dated someone whose Aleppan grandmother spoke only Arabic- not Hebrew, not Ladino.) Obviously a lot of his kids have married Sephardim and Ashkenazim.
"millions of African migrants to Europe and Hispanic immigrant to the US show that there are definitely no such conditions"
Many are extremely hard working. Many are illegall* immigrants. But Natan is quite correct. To obtain a residence visa in most civilised countries you need to show you will not be a burden on the state).
PS I doubt that many chareidim have Polish grandparents or great
grandparents who were resident in Poland after 1920.
*chareidim are not too concerned about legality and illegality, goyshe stuff. We know. They will no doubt come in on tourist visas, and never leave, and scream antisemitism when appropriate.
Many chareidim are extremely hardworking also. The situation in Israel is directly due to the army issue, which doesn't exist in most other places. I have no doubt that many chareidim have great grandparents who were residents of Poland. The only question is if they can get the documents to prove it.
Besides the army issue, there is an expectation in Chareidi society in Israel, encouraged by the גדולים there, that everyone should learn full-time. Going to work is seen as a בדיעבד. This culture doesn't exist in חוץ לארץ.
"But there are still conditions to immigration. And one of the most basic is that the immigrant group are economically beneficial to the country rather than creating an economic burden. They must enter the workforce."
When you lived in Manchester, did you ever wander around outside at all? 75% of the Somali population is unemployed. Obviously Somalians are pretty bad even by third world standards, but stats for Pakistanis and other diversity-bringers are also pretty bad.
"Surely the Chief Rabbi of Israel should be inspiring the nation with the beauty of Judaism, not turning people off from it by making it about selfishness and avoiding shared responsibility."
To a very large degree, announcing charedim would be leaving is abandoning the core principle of faith of torah protects. If hishtadlus is meaningless, and the pursuit of Torah is all that matters, physical location should not matter. All that matters is acting in accordance to God's will.
Maybe they should have more faith in God and their own pursuits than physical means.
You only say this because you have, like most people here, a tremendous misrepresentation/misunderstanding of the chareidi view on hishtadlus , it is not meaningless.
I have long contended that the single fundamental characteristic, or at least one that is common to all strands, of haredism is the refusal to distinguish ikar from tafel. This is is the reason why it is possible to have riots over kaparot, for example, or to issue herems over the identity of the arnevet.
One of the big differences between the current Chief Rabbis is that Rabbi Lau served in the army and before his current position he was the Rav of a city with a large secular population (Modi'in), where he integrated himself with all segments of society, regularly met with and spoke at both religious and non-religious institutions, including schools, youth groups, and public events.
Rabbi Lau understands the issues that are important to the secular community, and this has been evident in the way he carries out his job as Chief Rabbi, including how he approaches kashrut issues, conversion, divorce, and meeting with public officials.
On the other hand, before his current position, Rav Yitzhak Yosef was the Rosh yeshiva of Yeshivat Hazon Ovadia, and he never fully made the transition from Rosh Yeshiva to Chief Rabbi.
For example, there is a big difference between the way kashrut should be handled in a Yeshiva dining room, compared the the kashrut policy for an entire country. Or in this case, the type of language or exaggeration which may be suitable for a Shiur Klali which is not recorded in a Yeshiva, which is not necessary suitable when speaking on behalf of a national institution to an audience which includes secular journalists.
The next chief Rabbis may be similar to the predecessors. The current candidate for Ashkenazi CR is Rav Meir Kahana (spelt with an "a" at the end, unlike a different "Meir Kahane"), who is in the Beit din in Ashkelon where he regularly works with secular people, and he served in the IDF (served in Tzanchanim in Lebanon and has the ranbk of Sgan Aluf).
The candidate for Sfardi CR is the brother of the current Rav (or maybe Ariye Deri's brother).
Kahana is a fairly common name in Israel (the older Meir Kahane's family moved to the US from Israel shortly before he was born), and it's always spelled the same way, with an א. :-) I wonder if the younger Kahane even has a standard way of spelling his last name. We can check his credit card.
This Meir Kahana strikes me as a good deal more modern than Lau. I hope he remains on the ballot.
There are all sorts of machinations going on right now between the Deris, Yosefs, and Amars. I pray none of them back down, there's a big internecine fight, and someone like Shmuel Eliyahu is elected. And then Shas collapses.
I believe that part of the coalition agreement was that the RZ party would promote a candidate for Ashkenazi CR and Shas would promote a candidate for Rishon Letzion, so their would only be one candidate for each position.
I have no idea whether that agreement is still on the table, but if it is, any disagreements between the Deris, Yosefs, and Amars will be an internal Shas issue, and it will not help get a Dati Leumi candidate for Rishon letzion.
What, people get put in jail for being chareidim there? Because that is what the chilonim are threatening in Israel. Hard to get more anti-semitic than that.
It definitely is part of what defines being chareidi (on a communal level), they don't avoid service just because they're lazy or scared. So the chilonim are threatening much worse than whatever anti-semitism might exist in European countries.
"Hard to get more anti-semitic than that"? Yes, refusal to serve is part of what defines charedi society in Israel, but that doesn't mean that jailing them for refusing is antisemitic. You could say it's anti-charedi, but definitely not antisemitic.
It is anti-Semitic. It is persecuting them for their Jewish beliefs, which they cannot and should not be expected to change. It is not as bad as Nazis, but much worse than any anti-Semitism that they may or may not experience in modern-day Spain or Poland.
My great-grandparents, shot in the back of the neck and lying in a pit somewhere, might disagree, but what do they know. They probably didn't even go to yeshiva!
Your great grandparents must have invented an amazing time machine if they were shot by by modern-day Spaniards and Poles (can you maintain attention for longer than it takes to read one comment?)
They should change his title to הראשון מציון.
This is fake news. Quite typical of NS, unfortunately. Contrary to his claims, the Chief Rabbi made no "declaration", made no "statement", and said nothing "in response" to anything. You can never trust anything he says, but the easiest dead giveaway is when he doesn't give a quote, and hides the link. That's when its painfully obvious.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/chief-sephardic-rabbi-says-ultra-orthodox-will-bolt-country-if-forced-into-army/
He spoke in Hebrew, did he not? So quote a Hebrew site, like Maariv. Which stated that he was speaking "b'shiur, im talmidav". (In class, with his students.) Not a "declaration", not a "statement", and nothing "in response" to anything.
I think an equally concerning issue is the lack of appreciation for Eretz Yisrael.
We live in Eretz Yisrael because it's the land given to us by Hashem and not because it's the center of Torah that so many charedim mistakenly think.
I have heard many times from Haredim that it doesn't really matter where they live as long as its a place of Torah.
It's sad that they never really develop an understanding and appreciation of what it means to live in Eretz Yisrael.
Of course, Chazal explicitly say that it's preferable to live in Israel in a place full of avoda zara than to live in chu"l in a place full of Torah.
And there's very little avoda zara in Israel, and a lot of Torah.
Absolutely 100% this. Chareidim need to learn that Eretz Yisrael is the home of the Jewish people. Not Monsey! Not Brooklyn! Not Lakewood! Not Teaneck!
It's like the rhetoric from Dems in the US in 2016 (and some now too) that they will leave if Trump gets in. Fun to use by the other side to denigrate them, but ultimately not really a literal statement. Maybe some will leave, maybe not, but ultimately people mostly deal with the new realities on the ground. Much more likely lots of civil disobedience, lots of bins being burnt.
As a Canadian, we told our US friends that they had to stay and rescue their country, they couldn't just "move to Canada". Same principles apply here.
The Chareidi response to these silly political posts written by people who like to obfuscate the Chareidi issues:
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/chareidim-in-a-democracy
Probably tens of thousands of chareidi ashkenazim have a great grandparent from Poland, which gives them right to apply for citizenship to Poland and the right to live anywhere in the EU. No requirement for pursuit of college education. Chareidim do fine in chu"l, although I'm sure they would be sad to leave. If the non-chareidim really hate the chareidim that much, this might be the best possible arrangement for everybody.
"But there are still conditions to immigration. And one of the most basic is that the immigrant group are economically beneficial to the country rather than creating an economic burden. They must enter the workforce. They must pay taxes rather than just take welfare benefits. They must create a net benefit for the country."
Besides for Poland's citizenship rule, the millions of African migrants to Europe and Hispanic immigrant to the US show that there are definitely no such conditions, which you just made up off the top of your head.
African migrants are accepted as refugees fleeing war. Fleeing joining the army is not quite the same thing.
Perhaps a side point, but *please* tell me you're not that naive and/or accepting of official narratives. Or perhaps you are just not attuned to current events in other countries, which is perhaps a bit more excusable. (Israel has plenty of current events of its own.) But come on: This is perhaps *the* major issue in the US, the UK, and much of Europe: The indiscriminate admission of immigrants. If the only issue were immigration as such, the charedim would sail through.
Except, of course, that the gates are not open for people of charedi complexion or religion. So it's a wash.
I will say that charedim have great skill in manipulating systems (a skill much needed when more honest methods are not available), including those of immigration and citizenship, so maybe some can manage. A million, obviously not.
Let's all delve into this tooth fairy science. We'll talk rationally and explain away all the legal, logistical, diplomatic and economic details of transferring a million חרדי Jews because they don't want to serve in their own country, even though their own leadership in the not-to-distant past (i.e. the post-אחרונים era) have endorsed military service.
Stop it.
It's not going to happen.
Rav Yosef's comments were hyperbole. (Stick with his fine ספרים, and ignore the populist דרוש)
(I also find all the talk of encouraging Charedim to leave distasteful. Sure, the concept of תקיא הארץ אתכם may perhaps be applicable. But I see no reason to force such a mass emigration. We need them to stay and be מקרב them to observe all מצות, not just Torah study.)
"even though their own leadership in the not-to-distant past (i.e. the post-אחרונים era) have endorsed military service."
A much bigger fantasy that Ephraim thinks that his interpretation of what their leadership may or may not have done 70 years ago has any bearing on chareidim's views in 2024.
"It's not going to happen."
Why are you so sure? I can tell you a mass enlistment of chareidim will for sure not happen. Emigration might be the best alternative for everybody. Let the chilonim have their secular country for as long as Hashem has patience for them.
" But I see no reason to force such a mass emigration."
I also see no need for it. It doesn't help the manpower problem (to the extent there is one) if chareidim leave. So it's just another expression of their hatred.
"We need them to stay and be מקרב them to observe all מצות, not just Torah study"
It's interesting, I never ever see you talking about being מקרב the chilonim. This demonstrates that such statements are insincere and cynical, and your ideology is much more secularist than religious (if you are even religious at all).
" I never ever see you talking about being מקרב the chilonim. This demonstrates that such statements are insincere and cynical"
You're inability to read & hear everything I speak or write is no demonstration "that such statements are insincere and cynical".
It's a simple statement of fact that you are either irreligious or a total hypocrite. That's all.
Well, whatever it is, the man has no business being chief rabbi, or speaking in public.
Correction. JEWS have great skill in manipulating systems.
There are different kinds of skills.
Israel is in a perpetual war, and when they talk about forcing chareidim to join the army, they are talking about jailing them and persecuting them in other ways, not just cutting off stipends.
You cannot claim asylum because you want to get out of military service in your country of origin, no matter what the consequences are. The only exception would be for a conscientious objector.
I don't know about that. "A person whose refusal to perform military service is based on genuine religious, moral or political convictions can also be considered a refugee, provided that the genuineness of such convictions and the likelihood of prosecution and sanction, or other treatment amounting to persecution, are established."
https://www.refworld.org/policy/legalguidance/unhcr/1991/en/67578
I'm not saying it would work for sure, they would need to get the lawyers and askanim involved. Ultimately, Hashem is in charge. If he wants us to be persecuted, it will happen no matter what.
They don't have religious objections to people serving in the army. They just don't want to be the ones that do it!
Who says that makes a difference? You made that up on the spot. Suppose everybody in the army had to accept Jesus and kiss the crucifix. Who said that wouldn't be a religious objection?
That would depend if they are fleeing before or after the new laws take effect. If before then it should be ok.
Not at all. If they flee before the new laws take effect, they would have absolutely no reason at all to claim asylum.
100%. How can they claim asylum with no cause? And why should they claim asylum? I am of the opinion that it is an honor to serve for Tzahal. However, the military needs to make many fixes to absorb such a religiously conservative population.
"they are talking about jailing them and persecuting them in other ways"
Not everyone.
Pretty sure that Rav Yitzhak Yosef does not have grandparents from Poland.
He probably doesn't, but he may have ancestors that were expelled from Spain! But to tell the truth, somebody high status like him could probably go almost anywhere.
The Yosefs are from Iraq. That's Mizrachi, not Sephardi or any connection to Spain at all. Ovadia Yosef's wife was from Aleppo, so there may have been some Sephardi in there, but not necessarily. (I once dated someone whose Aleppan grandmother spoke only Arabic- not Hebrew, not Ladino.) Obviously a lot of his kids have married Sephardim and Ashkenazim.
"millions of African migrants to Europe and Hispanic immigrant to the US show that there are definitely no such conditions"
Many are extremely hard working. Many are illegall* immigrants. But Natan is quite correct. To obtain a residence visa in most civilised countries you need to show you will not be a burden on the state).
PS I doubt that many chareidim have Polish grandparents or great
grandparents who were resident in Poland after 1920.
*chareidim are not too concerned about legality and illegality, goyshe stuff. We know. They will no doubt come in on tourist visas, and never leave, and scream antisemitism when appropriate.
Many chareidim are extremely hardworking also. The situation in Israel is directly due to the army issue, which doesn't exist in most other places. I have no doubt that many chareidim have great grandparents who were residents of Poland. The only question is if they can get the documents to prove it.
Besides the army issue, there is an expectation in Chareidi society in Israel, encouraged by the גדולים there, that everyone should learn full-time. Going to work is seen as a בדיעבד. This culture doesn't exist in חוץ לארץ.
There is also this culture in Lakewood, yet the vast majority are working before 30. And chassidim- they don't have the kollel culture at all.
My point has nothing to do with whether chareidim are hard working or not. Ditto the army. Completely irrelevant to my point. Read it again properly.
"But there are still conditions to immigration. And one of the most basic is that the immigrant group are economically beneficial to the country rather than creating an economic burden. They must enter the workforce."
When you lived in Manchester, did you ever wander around outside at all? 75% of the Somali population is unemployed. Obviously Somalians are pretty bad even by third world standards, but stats for Pakistanis and other diversity-bringers are also pretty bad.
Jews stick to their own areas in those places. In many places, in fact.
"Surely the Chief Rabbi of Israel should be inspiring the nation with the beauty of Judaism, not turning people off from it by making it about selfishness and avoiding shared responsibility."
Reminds me of this https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/the-selfishness-of-rashi
Look at this one also, about justifications for promoting hatred https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-review-of-jud-su-veit-harlan-1940
To a very large degree, announcing charedim would be leaving is abandoning the core principle of faith of torah protects. If hishtadlus is meaningless, and the pursuit of Torah is all that matters, physical location should not matter. All that matters is acting in accordance to God's will.
Maybe they should have more faith in God and their own pursuits than physical means.
You only say this because you have, like most people here, a tremendous misrepresentation/misunderstanding of the chareidi view on hishtadlus , it is not meaningless.
I have long contended that the single fundamental characteristic, or at least one that is common to all strands, of haredism is the refusal to distinguish ikar from tafel. This is is the reason why it is possible to have riots over kaparot, for example, or to issue herems over the identity of the arnevet.
Very true.
Rav Granot (who lost a son in the first weeks of the war) in a response to Rav Yosef.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=DhHZEvs5Dw4C4y4p&v=-4boCkW-r30&feature=youtu.be
He says it better than any of us can
Wow. Thanks for linking.
One of the big differences between the current Chief Rabbis is that Rabbi Lau served in the army and before his current position he was the Rav of a city with a large secular population (Modi'in), where he integrated himself with all segments of society, regularly met with and spoke at both religious and non-religious institutions, including schools, youth groups, and public events.
Rabbi Lau understands the issues that are important to the secular community, and this has been evident in the way he carries out his job as Chief Rabbi, including how he approaches kashrut issues, conversion, divorce, and meeting with public officials.
On the other hand, before his current position, Rav Yitzhak Yosef was the Rosh yeshiva of Yeshivat Hazon Ovadia, and he never fully made the transition from Rosh Yeshiva to Chief Rabbi.
For example, there is a big difference between the way kashrut should be handled in a Yeshiva dining room, compared the the kashrut policy for an entire country. Or in this case, the type of language or exaggeration which may be suitable for a Shiur Klali which is not recorded in a Yeshiva, which is not necessary suitable when speaking on behalf of a national institution to an audience which includes secular journalists.
The next chief Rabbis may be similar to the predecessors. The current candidate for Ashkenazi CR is Rav Meir Kahana (spelt with an "a" at the end, unlike a different "Meir Kahane"), who is in the Beit din in Ashkelon where he regularly works with secular people, and he served in the IDF (served in Tzanchanim in Lebanon and has the ranbk of Sgan Aluf).
The candidate for Sfardi CR is the brother of the current Rav (or maybe Ariye Deri's brother).
Kahana is a fairly common name in Israel (the older Meir Kahane's family moved to the US from Israel shortly before he was born), and it's always spelled the same way, with an א. :-) I wonder if the younger Kahane even has a standard way of spelling his last name. We can check his credit card.
This Meir Kahana strikes me as a good deal more modern than Lau. I hope he remains on the ballot.
There are all sorts of machinations going on right now between the Deris, Yosefs, and Amars. I pray none of them back down, there's a big internecine fight, and someone like Shmuel Eliyahu is elected. And then Shas collapses.
I believe that part of the coalition agreement was that the RZ party would promote a candidate for Ashkenazi CR and Shas would promote a candidate for Rishon Letzion, so their would only be one candidate for each position.
I have no idea whether that agreement is still on the table, but if it is, any disagreements between the Deris, Yosefs, and Amars will be an internal Shas issue, and it will not help get a Dati Leumi candidate for Rishon letzion.
I know about the agreements. Such agreements are all immoral. And they get more perverse as they go on.
The only people who should be permitted a say in who gets to be chief rabbi are the people who would accept his authority.
Will they demand that the State pay for their yordim tickets?
I say let them go and good riddance
Exactly what many Germans said after Kristalnacht..
I think you're both off the wall. You should talk that way about your fellow Jews, and you shouldn't be so quick to make Nazi analogies.
Correction: "You should not talk that way..."
Any GoFundMe's to pay for the mass departure? This could be a wonderful test of rationalism v mysticism.
If Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef hates the State of Israel so much, he can always move back to Egypt and see how that goes.
Hate? Who said anything about hate?
Maybe Spain and Poland accept immigrants in large numbers, but are still among the most anti-Semitic countries in Europe. No the best place to be Jew
What, people get put in jail for being chareidim there? Because that is what the chilonim are threatening in Israel. Hard to get more anti-semitic than that.
Unless not serving in the military is what defines being charedi, they wouldn't be "put in jail for being charedim."
It definitely is part of what defines being chareidi (on a communal level), they don't avoid service just because they're lazy or scared. So the chilonim are threatening much worse than whatever anti-semitism might exist in European countries.
"Hard to get more anti-semitic than that"? Yes, refusal to serve is part of what defines charedi society in Israel, but that doesn't mean that jailing them for refusing is antisemitic. You could say it's anti-charedi, but definitely not antisemitic.
It is anti-Semitic. It is persecuting them for their Jewish beliefs, which they cannot and should not be expected to change. It is not as bad as Nazis, but much worse than any anti-Semitism that they may or may not experience in modern-day Spain or Poland.
Bandana, you're on the website of a guy who thinks charedim should be barred from government. Of course its anti-semitic.
Much worse.
My great-grandparents, shot in the back of the neck and lying in a pit somewhere, might disagree, but what do they know. They probably didn't even go to yeshiva!
Your great grandparents must have invented an amazing time machine if they were shot by by modern-day Spaniards and Poles (can you maintain attention for longer than it takes to read one comment?)
Weak. "This new law isn't discriminatory! It criminalizes the wearing of a kipah, regardless of whether the guy is Jewish or not!"