What do they have to do with any of this? They have chosen to live in America and don't get to interfere in the affairs of other countries or feel guilty for their actions. If some other American did the same about China or India, they would be accused of imperialism.
But 2 can play at this game. I suggest Israelis say the following al chets:
Al chet for allowing our American cousins to live in huge homes, drive huge cars and fly all the time when they are committed to saving the planet
Al chet for those in the US not paying reparations to former slaves families and returning land to Native Americans who it was stolen from
Al chet for those in the US exploiting their own workers and employing illegals yet demanding social justice
Al chet for insisting that Black Lives Matter but remaining silent when Jews are attacked
Al chet for supporting extreme local politicians that have ruined cities like San Francisco and Portland for everyone and especially their poorest inhabitants and are helping to elect one in New York so it can go the same way
Sadly, the phenomenon of the self hating “kapo Jew” is not uncommon throughout Jewish history. Whether through profound ignorance or some deep seated psychological need (ie Stockholm Syndrome) such individuals turn their backs on their own people, land, culture and history. What they never understand until it is too late is that there is no great success in being on the last train to Auschwitz.
I think the most important part of your message is that we do not say Al Chet's for other people. We say them for our owns sins. Some of the comments here are missing that point. I don't agree with the positions of the Smol Ha-emuni but that's not the problem with the prayer. The prayer is not a heshbon nefesh. It is simply an attack on others. I'm sure they believe in their message. But its not what we are meant to do on YK.
I immediately recall what C.S. Lewis writes in “The Dangers of National Repentance”:
“The first and fatal charm of national repentance is, therefore, the encouragement it gives us to turn from the bitter task of repenting our own sins to the congenial one of bewailing—but, first, of denouncing—the conduct of others. If it were clear to the young that this is what he is doing, no doubt he would remember the law of charity. Unfortunately the very terms in which national repentance is recommended to him conceal its true nature. By a dangerous figure of speech, he calls the Government [here not even their own government] not ‘they’ but ‘we’. And since, as penitents, we are not encouraged to be charitable to our own sins, nor to give ourselves the benefit of any doubt, a Government which is called ‘we’ is ipso facto placed beyond the sphere of charity or even of justice. You can say anything you please about it. You can indulge in the popular vice of detraction without restraint, and yet feel all the time that you are practising contrition. A group of such young penitents will say, ‘Let us repent our national sins’; what they mean is, ‘Let us attribute to our neighbour... in the Cabinet, whenever we disagree with him, every abominable motive that Satan can suggest to our fancy.’”
Indeed. If this so called rabbi really cared that he had participated in some sin regarding the war against Hamas, it’s his own conscience. This is a game. And quite a disgusting one. When our fellow Jews are fighting in Gaza to rid the area of terror, this asshole writes performative crap and pretends it’s the very significant Al Cheit prayer. These people are ridiculous.
This is typical of progressive ‘as a Jew’ professors like Myers at UCLA. I used to attend Rabbi Dr. Chaim Seidler-Feller’s services at Hillel when I was a student at UCLA in the 1980s. He was left wing then and apparently hasn’t gained any wisdom regarding Israel and as has the cult of Palestine mind virus that has gripped the West since the 7/10 atrocities. This absolves our enemies of everything is the most depraved example of inversion by blaming, we the victims. These people are sick in my opinion. The only Al Chayet we should utter is ‘for the sin of being useful idiot Jews for our enemies’. To paraphrase the Talmud: ‘Those who are kind to the cruel, will be cruel to the kind.’ G-d save us from these Erev Rav.
Nah. I am an unreconstructed Socialist and unapologetic Leftist, much like Israel was at its inception. We are seeing the mask come off Capitalism JUST LIKE ADAM SMITH PREDICTED. It is ugly and evil and incompatible with basic decency.
But I believe with all my heart that national liberation and equal rights apply to Jews
Guess you have zero knowledge of what or whom the Erev Rav are. Go get an education. Here’s a piece for you to read if you can concentrate for less than 5 seconds…
The founders of the State of Israel WERE mostly unreconstructed socialists and unapologetic Leftists. Are you seriously denying that historical fact?
And BTW the biggest non-Jewish Zionist in the US at that time was the most unreconstructed far left figure ever to hold national office. He could easily have been President then. Unusually, he realized that his trust in Stalin was misplaced, and unlike almost every other Leftist then or more recently, recanted and apologized.
I’m not denying anything. What does early Zionist history have to do with the Al Chayet prayer? Do you know who the first Chief Rabbi of British Mandate Palestine was? Have you read his books? Countries evolve, Israel B”H has evolved to become a powerhouse in technology, medicine, environment etc with a thriving economy and it wasn’t due to its early foundations of socialism. Free market economy is why it is the country it is today. You want socialism? Go live in Cuba, Venezuela and the other failed socialist nightmares you seem so enamoured with. Nothing I abhor more is champagne socialists like your self.
I’m not arguing with you anymore. It isn’t a bold faced lie. It’s clear that you’re a progressive leftist Jew. And the world has changed radically since 1965! Have a nice Yom Kippur.
That you resort to namecalling shows that you have no counter argument. You should be concerned about Ghislaine Maxwell and her many still secret customers. People fleeing persecution are seeking a place with a rule of law. The people wanting to deport Cubans and Venezuelans today are the same as the people who wanted to deport Jews back to Europe in 1940. Just as the Hamas are the same as Nazis. So yes things have changed since 1965. The US is a mean unkind unwelcoming place today. It is now okay to support Nazi equivalents and it is also now okay to deny refuge to people being persecuted by totalitarians.
There probably really is a sin here most of us committed to some extent: we told ourselves that "whatever they say or do, they're still Jews" and treated them with too much courtesy, perhaps out of complacency and inertia more than out of principle. I resolve to treat them exactly as I would a non-Jew who said such things: as an enemy.
By the way, both of these gentlemen have track records of saying horrible things about Jews and Israel.
I was going to put in how you ended- we don't say Al Cheits for *other* people- but you "beat me to it." Of course this is not just limited to them- the charedi world does this all the time. Every time there's some disaster, for example, they talk about Shabbat and tzniyut and whatever, clearly not having themselves in mind.
If you know anything about the posturing,arrogant, virtue signalling yoredet who spearheads this loathsome gang, nothing would surprise. She’s barely a half tick to the right of Peter Beinart yimach shemo.
על חטא שחטאנו לפניך באונס וברצון: You have to teshuvah for the very fact that you were put in an impossible situation, or for what aveirah made you unworthy of protection from later aveiros (עבירה גוררת עבירה).
Reg. mentioning Hamas, last I checked, one does teshuvah for themselves, not other people. What that means for this list, well...
As to the list, I think they're really covered in the regular (Arizal inflected, I'm sure you say a less-kabbalistic one) Al Chet.
Al Chet for the sin of sullying the name of God and Judaism.
Chillul Hashem, that's on the list.
Al Chet for the sin of abandoning the mitzvah of redeeming the captive.
Israel broke the last cease-fire instead of continuing the phases. The crazies in the cabinet have said the captives are of secondary import.
Al Chet for the sin of bringing death and devastation upon our neighbor.
Bal Tashchis. Everybody (except the most bloodthirsty) agrees there has been unnecessary death and destruction. See previous comments, that's also something you need to do teshuvah for.
Al Chet for the sin of imposing our own suffering on the other.
Not exactly sure what this means. Turning the Shemini Atzeres massacres into "immersive experiences?"
Al Chet for the sin of denying our neighbor’s right to live.
מעשים בכל יום. Repeated invoking of Amalek. On the way to the rally in Washington last November, somebody said this was punishment for neglecting the mitzvah of destroying the nations of Canaan. Uncensured members of the Israeli cabinet actually calling for genocide.
Al Chet for the sin of violating the dignity of other human beings.
Sde Teman.
Al Chet for the sin of waging a war of revenge.
Not sure that's a halachic category...
Al Chet for the sin of starving people, especially innocent children.
The Defense Minister only said they would engage in starvation as an act of war. Besides the initial "complete siege" line.
Al Chet for the sin of stealing another’s land.
Continual settlement expansion in violation of international and Israeli law, with government support. DNA doesn't give anybody, Jew or Levantine, a right to Israel. Hashem promised us a land as reward for our following the Torah. I'm gonna say it. The Nova concert was chillul Shabbos b'farhesia. But yes, we're living in the Messianic Era. In the meantime, International Law stipulates that those driven from their homes during a conflict have a right to return after said conflict is over; especially if they plan to return.
Benny Morris said Israel was responsible for some Palestinian displacement in the war. He also said it didn't go far enough and they should have finished the job. He has mellowed a little in his old age, he's afraid the current war will be a pyrrhic victory.
Al Chet for the sin of mastery and supremacy over others.
Racism is bad. Only the most extreme will deny these sentiments. Whether the West Bank is an Apartheid-type system or merely a lot of unofficial discrimination, I don't know.
Al Chet for the sin of indifference and blindness.
This isn't a suggested al chet list for Hamas, just for Jews, who of course are collectively guilty for the alleged crimes of Israel. (Maybe I should clarify that I only meant to play devil's advocate for the weirdos.)
I agree that pidyon shevuyim is complicated and should not be done in a way to encourage more.
Bal tashchis's original context is the battlefield; do not destroy things that may be useful later. Great debating skills, by the way. "It is necessary, and even if not, that's ok."
Friend, the quote is שכר מצוה בהאי עלמא ליכא; as the passuk says היום לעשותם and Rashi explains ולמחר לעולם הבא ליטול שכר.
Granted, it is hard to tell if they have reached the international legal threshold for starvation. They've only limited access and aid.
I mention Nova for my point that this is not the messianic era, there is no operative commandment to settle or conquer the land.
These people have also disassociated from the Jewish nation. They are “chareidim” of a different sort. But really more like mumarim of old. The baptismal font is no longer required to become a mumar. Virtue signaling to the progressive “religion” is the way it’s done in the 21st century.
Well this whole diatribe of pure hate is from the person who writes how Yom Kippur is a day of contradictions but in the same sentence plays politics with “Joe Biden represents a truly religious personality. Not simply because he’s a pious Catholic, but because of his humility, his decency, his integrity”. In the midst of a trial at the discomfort of Yom Kippur this said rabbi goes ballistic about an election and drools over a drooling person and attacks the person -Trump on the other side. With just almost calling him a fascist etc. No matter which side you are on it is halachicly absurd for a rabbi to trash talk any person and the other side cause he “knows” he is right and theyyyy are wrong. What bitterness. How does anyone listen to him. So as he and his pears say so unjewish! Our mother s and our fathers said If you have nothing nice to say…
This is a joke, right? If you believe Israel is committing genocide, Joe Biden is complicit for all the aid and support. Oh, he did a lot of public hand-wringing, and paused the shipment of (faulty) 2000-pound bombs, but bottom line, he subverted Congress to make sure Israel got everything it wanted.
12. Al Cheit for the sin of encouraging those who would destroy the Jewish people.
13. Al Cheit for the sin of caring more for the Jew haters than for the victims of Jew hatred.
14. Al Cheit for the the sin of teaching my children they should be ashamed of being Jews.
15. Al Cheit for the sin of teaching my children they are murderers and not deserving of life.
16. Al Cheit for the sin of cultural appropriation.
עַל חֵטְא שֶׁחָטָאנוּ לְפָנֶיךָ בְּוִדּוּי פֶּה?!
What do they have to do with any of this? They have chosen to live in America and don't get to interfere in the affairs of other countries or feel guilty for their actions. If some other American did the same about China or India, they would be accused of imperialism.
But 2 can play at this game. I suggest Israelis say the following al chets:
Al chet for allowing our American cousins to live in huge homes, drive huge cars and fly all the time when they are committed to saving the planet
Al chet for those in the US not paying reparations to former slaves families and returning land to Native Americans who it was stolen from
Al chet for those in the US exploiting their own workers and employing illegals yet demanding social justice
Al chet for insisting that Black Lives Matter but remaining silent when Jews are attacked
Al chet for supporting extreme local politicians that have ruined cities like San Francisco and Portland for everyone and especially their poorest inhabitants and are helping to elect one in New York so it can go the same way
Al Cheit for twisting our prayers into performative play acting.
For those who are unfamiliar with the term "unJews," see https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-un-jews-natan-sharansky
Sadly, the phenomenon of the self hating “kapo Jew” is not uncommon throughout Jewish history. Whether through profound ignorance or some deep seated psychological need (ie Stockholm Syndrome) such individuals turn their backs on their own people, land, culture and history. What they never understand until it is too late is that there is no great success in being on the last train to Auschwitz.
"What they never understand until it is too late is that there is no great success in being on the last train to Auschwitz."
This is one of the most insightful thoughts I have ever read.
I think the most important part of your message is that we do not say Al Chet's for other people. We say them for our owns sins. Some of the comments here are missing that point. I don't agree with the positions of the Smol Ha-emuni but that's not the problem with the prayer. The prayer is not a heshbon nefesh. It is simply an attack on others. I'm sure they believe in their message. But its not what we are meant to do on YK.
I immediately recall what C.S. Lewis writes in “The Dangers of National Repentance”:
“The first and fatal charm of national repentance is, therefore, the encouragement it gives us to turn from the bitter task of repenting our own sins to the congenial one of bewailing—but, first, of denouncing—the conduct of others. If it were clear to the young that this is what he is doing, no doubt he would remember the law of charity. Unfortunately the very terms in which national repentance is recommended to him conceal its true nature. By a dangerous figure of speech, he calls the Government [here not even their own government] not ‘they’ but ‘we’. And since, as penitents, we are not encouraged to be charitable to our own sins, nor to give ourselves the benefit of any doubt, a Government which is called ‘we’ is ipso facto placed beyond the sphere of charity or even of justice. You can say anything you please about it. You can indulge in the popular vice of detraction without restraint, and yet feel all the time that you are practising contrition. A group of such young penitents will say, ‘Let us repent our national sins’; what they mean is, ‘Let us attribute to our neighbour... in the Cabinet, whenever we disagree with him, every abominable motive that Satan can suggest to our fancy.’”
Well-said: " it’s a social performance masked as a religious act."
The Left loves to talk about so-called "performativity"; this is indeed a perfect example of actual performativity
Indeed. If this so called rabbi really cared that he had participated in some sin regarding the war against Hamas, it’s his own conscience. This is a game. And quite a disgusting one. When our fellow Jews are fighting in Gaza to rid the area of terror, this asshole writes performative crap and pretends it’s the very significant Al Cheit prayer. These people are ridiculous.
This is typical of progressive ‘as a Jew’ professors like Myers at UCLA. I used to attend Rabbi Dr. Chaim Seidler-Feller’s services at Hillel when I was a student at UCLA in the 1980s. He was left wing then and apparently hasn’t gained any wisdom regarding Israel and as has the cult of Palestine mind virus that has gripped the West since the 7/10 atrocities. This absolves our enemies of everything is the most depraved example of inversion by blaming, we the victims. These people are sick in my opinion. The only Al Chayet we should utter is ‘for the sin of being useful idiot Jews for our enemies’. To paraphrase the Talmud: ‘Those who are kind to the cruel, will be cruel to the kind.’ G-d save us from these Erev Rav.
If Seidler-Feller were any more left wing than he is now he would fall into the Pacific Ocean.
😹😹So true
Nah. I am an unreconstructed Socialist and unapologetic Leftist, much like Israel was at its inception. We are seeing the mask come off Capitalism JUST LIKE ADAM SMITH PREDICTED. It is ugly and evil and incompatible with basic decency.
But I believe with all my heart that national liberation and equal rights apply to Jews
You’re the perfect example of an Erev Rav.😽
Then it was Erev Rav who created the State of Israel in 1948.
Guess you have zero knowledge of what or whom the Erev Rav are. Go get an education. Here’s a piece for you to read if you can concentrate for less than 5 seconds…
The founders of the State of Israel WERE mostly unreconstructed socialists and unapologetic Leftists. Are you seriously denying that historical fact?
And BTW the biggest non-Jewish Zionist in the US at that time was the most unreconstructed far left figure ever to hold national office. He could easily have been President then. Unusually, he realized that his trust in Stalin was misplaced, and unlike almost every other Leftist then or more recently, recanted and apologized.
I’m not denying anything. What does early Zionist history have to do with the Al Chayet prayer? Do you know who the first Chief Rabbi of British Mandate Palestine was? Have you read his books? Countries evolve, Israel B”H has evolved to become a powerhouse in technology, medicine, environment etc with a thriving economy and it wasn’t due to its early foundations of socialism. Free market economy is why it is the country it is today. You want socialism? Go live in Cuba, Venezuela and the other failed socialist nightmares you seem so enamoured with. Nothing I abhor more is champagne socialists like your self.
They dropped the socialism almost immediately, and they were certainly not "leftists" in the modern sense of the word.
I’m not arguing with you anymore. It isn’t a bold faced lie. It’s clear that you’re a progressive leftist Jew. And the world has changed radically since 1965! Have a nice Yom Kippur.
That you resort to namecalling shows that you have no counter argument. You should be concerned about Ghislaine Maxwell and her many still secret customers. People fleeing persecution are seeking a place with a rule of law. The people wanting to deport Cubans and Venezuelans today are the same as the people who wanted to deport Jews back to Europe in 1940. Just as the Hamas are the same as Nazis. So yes things have changed since 1965. The US is a mean unkind unwelcoming place today. It is now okay to support Nazi equivalents and it is also now okay to deny refuge to people being persecuted by totalitarians.
Perhaps Meyer and Seidler-Feller might consider their over-inflated egos : “for the sin of indoctrinating college students with this al-cheit”
I resigned from a tenured position : too much antisemitism , too few values and too many colleagues imbibing the sweet poison of self-importance.
There probably really is a sin here most of us committed to some extent: we told ourselves that "whatever they say or do, they're still Jews" and treated them with too much courtesy, perhaps out of complacency and inertia more than out of principle. I resolve to treat them exactly as I would a non-Jew who said such things: as an enemy.
Bravo.
By the way, both of these gentlemen have track records of saying horrible things about Jews and Israel.
I was going to put in how you ended- we don't say Al Cheits for *other* people- but you "beat me to it." Of course this is not just limited to them- the charedi world does this all the time. Every time there's some disaster, for example, they talk about Shabbat and tzniyut and whatever, clearly not having themselves in mind.
we recite Al Chet in first-person plural
If you know anything about the posturing,arrogant, virtue signalling yoredet who spearheads this loathsome gang, nothing would surprise. She’s barely a half tick to the right of Peter Beinart yimach shemo.
Who?
Daughter of a prominent left-wing Israeli rabbi and scholar. Look it up.
I really don’t know who it is.
The head of Smol Emuni in the US, Esther Sperber.
Ok thx I had no idea as I said.
על חטא שחטאנו לפניך באונס וברצון: You have to teshuvah for the very fact that you were put in an impossible situation, or for what aveirah made you unworthy of protection from later aveiros (עבירה גוררת עבירה).
Reg. mentioning Hamas, last I checked, one does teshuvah for themselves, not other people. What that means for this list, well...
As to the list, I think they're really covered in the regular (Arizal inflected, I'm sure you say a less-kabbalistic one) Al Chet.
Al Chet for the sin of sullying the name of God and Judaism.
Chillul Hashem, that's on the list.
Al Chet for the sin of abandoning the mitzvah of redeeming the captive.
Israel broke the last cease-fire instead of continuing the phases. The crazies in the cabinet have said the captives are of secondary import.
Al Chet for the sin of bringing death and devastation upon our neighbor.
Bal Tashchis. Everybody (except the most bloodthirsty) agrees there has been unnecessary death and destruction. See previous comments, that's also something you need to do teshuvah for.
Al Chet for the sin of imposing our own suffering on the other.
Not exactly sure what this means. Turning the Shemini Atzeres massacres into "immersive experiences?"
Al Chet for the sin of denying our neighbor’s right to live.
מעשים בכל יום. Repeated invoking of Amalek. On the way to the rally in Washington last November, somebody said this was punishment for neglecting the mitzvah of destroying the nations of Canaan. Uncensured members of the Israeli cabinet actually calling for genocide.
Al Chet for the sin of violating the dignity of other human beings.
Sde Teman.
Al Chet for the sin of waging a war of revenge.
Not sure that's a halachic category...
Al Chet for the sin of starving people, especially innocent children.
The Defense Minister only said they would engage in starvation as an act of war. Besides the initial "complete siege" line.
Al Chet for the sin of stealing another’s land.
Continual settlement expansion in violation of international and Israeli law, with government support. DNA doesn't give anybody, Jew or Levantine, a right to Israel. Hashem promised us a land as reward for our following the Torah. I'm gonna say it. The Nova concert was chillul Shabbos b'farhesia. But yes, we're living in the Messianic Era. In the meantime, International Law stipulates that those driven from their homes during a conflict have a right to return after said conflict is over; especially if they plan to return.
Benny Morris said Israel was responsible for some Palestinian displacement in the war. He also said it didn't go far enough and they should have finished the job. He has mellowed a little in his old age, he's afraid the current war will be a pyrrhic victory.
Al Chet for the sin of mastery and supremacy over others.
Racism is bad. Only the most extreme will deny these sentiments. Whether the West Bank is an Apartheid-type system or merely a lot of unofficial discrimination, I don't know.
Al Chet for the sin of indifference and blindness.
This is covered in the traditional.
Sde Teman was a blood libel, plain and simple.
The rest of your "facts" are similarly worse than flawed.
6 IDF reservists have been convicted of crimes in relation to it. Granted, that's not a lot.
This isn't a suggested al chet list for Hamas, just for Jews, who of course are collectively guilty for the alleged crimes of Israel. (Maybe I should clarify that I only meant to play devil's advocate for the weirdos.)
I can't have a discussion with someone who does things like that. Too confusing.
"Al Chet for the sin of abandoning the mitzvah of redeeming the captive."
It's not clear that the מצוה of redeeming a captive applies here.
"Bal Tashchis. Everybody (except the most bloodthirsty) agrees there has been unnecessary death and destruction. "
Halacha allows for unnecessary death and destruction. Especially when it's necessary.
" Hashem promised us a land as reward for our following the Torah."
שכר מצוה בהאי עלמא ליכא
" I'm gonna say it. The Nova concert was chillul Shabbos b'farhesia. "
You do realize that just a minority of our deaths were at that concert. (And that the concert was not a planned target of Hamas.)
"Al Chet for the sin of starving people"
Israel is not starving people. Israel is feeding people.
" Continual settlement expansion"
...is a מצוה. Maybe we should concentrate on other מצות, but it's not a חטא.
I agree that pidyon shevuyim is complicated and should not be done in a way to encourage more.
Bal tashchis's original context is the battlefield; do not destroy things that may be useful later. Great debating skills, by the way. "It is necessary, and even if not, that's ok."
Friend, the quote is שכר מצוה בהאי עלמא ליכא; as the passuk says היום לעשותם and Rashi explains ולמחר לעולם הבא ליטול שכר.
Granted, it is hard to tell if they have reached the international legal threshold for starvation. They've only limited access and aid.
I mention Nova for my point that this is not the messianic era, there is no operative commandment to settle or conquer the land.
Wait, I meant two Novembers ago. Wow. Already. It's been rough.
I know. I realized you meant that one, which is why I corrected myself.
These people have also disassociated from the Jewish nation. They are “chareidim” of a different sort. But really more like mumarim of old. The baptismal font is no longer required to become a mumar. Virtue signaling to the progressive “religion” is the way it’s done in the 21st century.
" They are “chareidim” of a different sort."
That's conflation.
These people turned an idea of righteousness into an idol that they are worshipping. They need to repent Al het of having other gods.
Well this whole diatribe of pure hate is from the person who writes how Yom Kippur is a day of contradictions but in the same sentence plays politics with “Joe Biden represents a truly religious personality. Not simply because he’s a pious Catholic, but because of his humility, his decency, his integrity”. In the midst of a trial at the discomfort of Yom Kippur this said rabbi goes ballistic about an election and drools over a drooling person and attacks the person -Trump on the other side. With just almost calling him a fascist etc. No matter which side you are on it is halachicly absurd for a rabbi to trash talk any person and the other side cause he “knows” he is right and theyyyy are wrong. What bitterness. How does anyone listen to him. So as he and his pears say so unjewish! Our mother s and our fathers said If you have nothing nice to say…
This is a joke, right? If you believe Israel is committing genocide, Joe Biden is complicit for all the aid and support. Oh, he did a lot of public hand-wringing, and paused the shipment of (faulty) 2000-pound bombs, but bottom line, he subverted Congress to make sure Israel got everything it wanted.
Subverted Congress?
Didn't wait for authorization to send weapons.