To the pathologic world view of Goldknopf and his followers, supporters, and useful idiots in the Charedi world, he is not a thief, robber, or liar in their understanding of the terms. He is playing the system and milking the goyim (yes, all non-charedi Jews are goyim if not worse in their eyes). In this pathology, what he is doing is a mitzvah. Shame on the rest of us for permitting the Netanyahu government to enable them at everybody else's expense.
From out here in the galus looks like somebody’s let the schnorrers have a powerful political party. Seems like a shunda to me. I was always taught that our sages had occupations to provide their own earthly sustenance and taught Torah as a mitzvah. Silly me. Draft them there are plenty of rear echelon tasks that don’t require combat.
A rav of mine said that there is also a schnorrer paradigm in golus as well. He said that the word "frum" stands for: Food stamps, Rent subsidies, Unemployment benefits, and Medicare!
Here is another one...A chassid meet his friend from yeshiva whom he knew was having issues with parnussa. He asks him how are things going, how is with parnussa,? His friend tells him B"H everything is great. He asks him what are you doing now, he says I became a programmer. He thinks and remembers this guy did not study a yiddish vort in Yeshivas, He asks when did you become a programmer?
He answers counting on his fingers, now I take, the section 8 program, the food stamp program, the WIK program, The Medicaid program. I take all the programs!!
The retreat of democracy and rise of tyranny worldwide has gone hand-in-hand with unapologetic corruption and the degradation of facts in favor of feelings.
Goldknopf is of course a crook and his party isn't much better. Unfortunately, one root cause is the government spending, in general, like drunken sailors. Why does there have to be a Ministry of Housing at all? (Well, a big reason is to get houses to charedim who refuse to work. Most people sort themselves out.) When the government somehow finds it within itself to start shutting down much, much more- say, the JNF, to pick another body that has a direct influence here, or, randomly, the government TV stations (except, of course, that makes the *Left* go nuts), then there'll just be less to steal. But now, way too many people have a finger in the pie to let that happen.
The chilonim have a police and jail, the charedim have none of that.
Why should he lie and steal from chilonim when he can do the same to charedim with impunity?
He is the single reason Gimmel receives less votes than its share of the population. Gimmel cannot get rid of him, but he is not much of an asset to them.
I'm pretty sure that MK Eichler is also responsible for a lot of people not voting Gimmel - I don't know if he has done anything illegal/immoral, but he speaks in a quite incendiary fashion.
Just a few deft untruths, a little exaggeration, and voila! You have your food (fodder) for the day.
It wasn't the Charedi community, it was Ger.
He isn't a leader, he is a politician. Politicians are functionaries, not leaders. They do a job, like window cleaners, unlike museum curators. Their personal morals are often lacking, and like with any other Jew who displays these failings, we are sad about it. But his selection is no reflection on anything more than the selection of your car service driver.
So, no consequences, no failings, no learnings, no path to change things, no effective reprimand. Just 'business as usual' - we expect nothing from anyone (except of course, the soldiers out there being mocked).
Actually, there are consequences. See today's news.
But that is not the issue. If your window cleaner said something obnoxious, would that obligate you to fire him?
The idea that politicians are better than others is contradicted by the facts. Politicians are scum, and even an honest person who enters parliament, congress, the knesset, or the duma is quite likely to begin resembling scum.
But they are the ones we need to do the job, we have no choice.
All he represents is their spiritual and political leader -- and that says nothing about the people who consider such a person to be their spiritual and political leader.
What is okay with the hechsher - the Gerrer Rebbe picked him?
Do you know, the Gerrer Rebbe sends out letters to this young chassidim after several months into a marriage. The letter states that our work in this world is to be holy and kodosh L'Hashem. You have to have the least relations with your wife. You are allowed mikvah night, the next shabbos night (to catch the holy souls that Hashem releases Friday night) and after that they have to ask a mashgiach especially set up for this. In Professor Benjamin Browns study "Kedushah: The Sexual Abstinence of Married Men in Gur" he claims it is only once a month. However, Gerrer's told me he is mistaken, they get a second chance.
The Gerrer's keep this under wraps, however, I saw the letter and have a copy of it. The most HORRIFIC thing in the letter, is where it states, that even if your wife expresses her needs, and maybe even begging, "do NOT have pity on her" you have to accomplish your duty in this world.
What religion is GER preaching?? Now you can understand why many other chassidum would not let their daughters marry a Gerrer.
Contradict everything and every moral fiber. In the kisubah he promises this his wife and the the Rebbe gets him to back out.
This is not something going back to the beginning. This is something that one of the recent Rebbes started. however, I am not sure which one. He might have been suffering from something or was maybe was not so successful himself in his marriage and roped his chassidim into this craziness.
It is strange how far we deviated from the words of Chazal. The question begs, really what difference are we from Lev Tohor?
What "exactly" is NEWS that they are robbers, thief's, or a mixture.... Are we living under rocks until now.
Charedim only care for themselves, here in America they don't mind hoodwinking the rest of society to the tune in some towns to 80% taking Gov't programs. You think Israel should be different?? In their minds, here in America we are robbing goyim, in Israel we are robbing Jewish goyim. What is new?
Someone who was close to Chassidut Gur suggested that I lie to the state in order to obtain funds that I am not entitled to. When I looked at him in astonishment, he replied: "Zionism was established to turn Jews into Christians, as seen in Herzl's diary, which was his goal." However, an examination of Herzl's diary teaches us: (1) Herzl was certain that many Jews were going to be murdered in Europe. (2) His initial thought, as he wrote, was to initiate a mass conversion movement, not because he believed in Christianity (his words), but to save the Jews. According to the diary, he understood that Jews would not convert en masse. Therefore, to save Jews from being murdered, he decided on a political solution. But when Gur Chassidim falsify what is written in Herzl's diary and then conclude that the goal of every Zionist today is to turn Jews into Christians, it becomes clear why a Charedi must not leave the Charedi framework. Because this is Shemad.
That was an idea Herzl had way *before* he became a Zionist. The Dreyfus affair caused him to throw all that out entirely, because he realized that Jews would never be accepted no matter what they did. To cite that is the equivalent of saying that a ba'al teshuva once ate pork.
Or a little earlier. When he was a kid, he was wonder-struck by סיפור יציאת מצרים and this lead to a (prescient? megalomaniacal? ) dream. He was taken by משיח to the heavens and met משה רבינו on the cloud. משיח proclaimed, "This is the child we've been waiting for!".
Entire lifetimes spent believing things at second or third -hand, never verifying but with such absolute certainty. The first people they cheat are themselves.
Your analysis is correct. Unfortunately, your AI generated picture deflects attention from the argument. Why does a charedi ganav look like the Lubavitcher Rebbe, beard, fedora and all. Why not generate an image of your real culprit?
"And yet charedim wonder why their group is despised, and accuse their critics of hating Torah"
You sound like Jackson Hinkle or Nick Fuentes over here. Why should a random Chareidi be responsible for Goldknopf's actions? Only someone full of hate would make this connection.
"Epstein was Jewish and the Jews wonder why they were kicked out of 109 countries!"
In other words, you think he badly miscalculated as to how his haredi audience would react to his boasting of having cheated other Israelis? He thought they'd be thrilled (hence the bragging), but in reality they were appalled, with their rabbinnic leaders and news outlets calling for his resignation?
Charedim were about as “appalled” by Goldknopf’s actions as the chief of police was that gambling was happening in Rick’s Cafe American in Casablanca….
Most Charedim didn't vote for him - no one votes for an individual in Israel, as you probably know. Most Charedim voted for Gimmel because the rabbis told them to, or because they themselves agree with Gimmel's positions more than any other party. Goldknopf had nothing to do with it.
It depends which choir you belong to. If it's your foregone conclusion that yeshivas the way they currently are, are bad, electing a gangster is the proof of the pudding. If it's your foregone conclusion that yeshivas the way they currently are, are good, electing a gangster is a necessary evil. Gangsters know how to fight in an often hostile environment while good guys come in last. Use as needed.
Have you ever considered NOT stealing bread from the mouths of the children whose families work? Not demanding that better men and women die for your privilege?
If you don't care about Yeshivos, it is easy to casually take the high road.
Now that politics controls our lives, we have to send people to the filthy knesset and deal with people we wish we didn't have to.
We take the best choice we have. Purism is another word for destruction. Nobody chooses purist ideals when it comes to their personal lives. The demand is always at the expense of a greater value.
To the pathologic world view of Goldknopf and his followers, supporters, and useful idiots in the Charedi world, he is not a thief, robber, or liar in their understanding of the terms. He is playing the system and milking the goyim (yes, all non-charedi Jews are goyim if not worse in their eyes). In this pathology, what he is doing is a mitzvah. Shame on the rest of us for permitting the Netanyahu government to enable them at everybody else's expense.
From out here in the galus looks like somebody’s let the schnorrers have a powerful political party. Seems like a shunda to me. I was always taught that our sages had occupations to provide their own earthly sustenance and taught Torah as a mitzvah. Silly me. Draft them there are plenty of rear echelon tasks that don’t require combat.
A rav of mine said that there is also a schnorrer paradigm in golus as well. He said that the word "frum" stands for: Food stamps, Rent subsidies, Unemployment benefits, and Medicare!
A -Good one Frum stands for.....
Here is another one...A chassid meet his friend from yeshiva whom he knew was having issues with parnussa. He asks him how are things going, how is with parnussa,? His friend tells him B"H everything is great. He asks him what are you doing now, he says I became a programmer. He thinks and remembers this guy did not study a yiddish vort in Yeshivas, He asks when did you become a programmer?
He answers counting on his fingers, now I take, the section 8 program, the food stamp program, the WIK program, The Medicaid program. I take all the programs!!
Absolutely! I don't know that they would be qualified for combat, but as you said -- there's plenty of other things that need doing.
The retreat of democracy and rise of tyranny worldwide has gone hand-in-hand with unapologetic corruption and the degradation of facts in favor of feelings.
Goldknopf is of course a crook and his party isn't much better. Unfortunately, one root cause is the government spending, in general, like drunken sailors. Why does there have to be a Ministry of Housing at all? (Well, a big reason is to get houses to charedim who refuse to work. Most people sort themselves out.) When the government somehow finds it within itself to start shutting down much, much more- say, the JNF, to pick another body that has a direct influence here, or, randomly, the government TV stations (except, of course, that makes the *Left* go nuts), then there'll just be less to steal. But now, way too many people have a finger in the pie to let that happen.
The chilonim have a police and jail, the charedim have none of that.
Why should he lie and steal from chilonim when he can do the same to charedim with impunity?
He is the single reason Gimmel receives less votes than its share of the population. Gimmel cannot get rid of him, but he is not much of an asset to them.
I'm pretty sure that MK Eichler is also responsible for a lot of people not voting Gimmel - I don't know if he has done anything illegal/immoral, but he speaks in a quite incendiary fashion.
He doesn't fight his own constituency.
Or they like it. Or they like the ol' mazooma rollin' in.
Zindel, it is coming to that, they will steal from each other. For now there is a gentleman's agreement, to steal but from each other.
Yep, he's long been known to be a total gangster. Simply incredible that the charedi community selected him to be their political leader,
Just a few deft untruths, a little exaggeration, and voila! You have your food (fodder) for the day.
It wasn't the Charedi community, it was Ger.
He isn't a leader, he is a politician. Politicians are functionaries, not leaders. They do a job, like window cleaners, unlike museum curators. Their personal morals are often lacking, and like with any other Jew who displays these failings, we are sad about it. But his selection is no reflection on anything more than the selection of your car service driver.
So, no consequences, no failings, no learnings, no path to change things, no effective reprimand. Just 'business as usual' - we expect nothing from anyone (except of course, the soldiers out there being mocked).
No wonder IL is in death spiral crisis.
Actually, there are consequences. See today's news.
But that is not the issue. If your window cleaner said something obnoxious, would that obligate you to fire him?
The idea that politicians are better than others is contradicted by the facts. Politicians are scum, and even an honest person who enters parliament, congress, the knesset, or the duma is quite likely to begin resembling scum.
But they are the ones we need to do the job, we have no choice.
This the same obfuscation the world uses to muddy the waters in regards to Gazans vs Hamas.
The ger cult picked him. No one else.
Right.
All he represents is their spiritual and political leader -- and that says nothing about the people who consider such a person to be their spiritual and political leader.
Ger is known to be an insane cult for some time.
The Gerrer Rebbe picked him - no one else had a vote.
What is okay with the hechsher - the Gerrer Rebbe picked him?
Do you know, the Gerrer Rebbe sends out letters to this young chassidim after several months into a marriage. The letter states that our work in this world is to be holy and kodosh L'Hashem. You have to have the least relations with your wife. You are allowed mikvah night, the next shabbos night (to catch the holy souls that Hashem releases Friday night) and after that they have to ask a mashgiach especially set up for this. In Professor Benjamin Browns study "Kedushah: The Sexual Abstinence of Married Men in Gur" he claims it is only once a month. However, Gerrer's told me he is mistaken, they get a second chance.
The Gerrer's keep this under wraps, however, I saw the letter and have a copy of it. The most HORRIFIC thing in the letter, is where it states, that even if your wife expresses her needs, and maybe even begging, "do NOT have pity on her" you have to accomplish your duty in this world.
What religion is GER preaching?? Now you can understand why many other chassidum would not let their daughters marry a Gerrer.
So what value is the Gerrer's hechsher?
I meant that the charedim as a whole did not choose him, only Ger.
Contradict everything and every moral fiber. In the kisubah he promises this his wife and the the Rebbe gets him to back out.
This is not something going back to the beginning. This is something that one of the recent Rebbes started. however, I am not sure which one. He might have been suffering from something or was maybe was not so successful himself in his marriage and roped his chassidim into this craziness.
It is strange how far we deviated from the words of Chazal. The question begs, really what difference are we from Lev Tohor?
Vote in Israeli Knesset is by party, not candidate.
The charedim sure vote for the guy at the top of the list.
Well you gotta follow the gedolim after all /s
And see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcfQzMx9mHA
Summary: Goldknopf's achievements in housing relief are mainly in the periphery in place which just so happens to be in centers of Gerrer settlement.
What "exactly" is NEWS that they are robbers, thief's, or a mixture.... Are we living under rocks until now.
Charedim only care for themselves, here in America they don't mind hoodwinking the rest of society to the tune in some towns to 80% taking Gov't programs. You think Israel should be different?? In their minds, here in America we are robbing goyim, in Israel we are robbing Jewish goyim. What is new?
Someone who was close to Chassidut Gur suggested that I lie to the state in order to obtain funds that I am not entitled to. When I looked at him in astonishment, he replied: "Zionism was established to turn Jews into Christians, as seen in Herzl's diary, which was his goal." However, an examination of Herzl's diary teaches us: (1) Herzl was certain that many Jews were going to be murdered in Europe. (2) His initial thought, as he wrote, was to initiate a mass conversion movement, not because he believed in Christianity (his words), but to save the Jews. According to the diary, he understood that Jews would not convert en masse. Therefore, to save Jews from being murdered, he decided on a political solution. But when Gur Chassidim falsify what is written in Herzl's diary and then conclude that the goal of every Zionist today is to turn Jews into Christians, it becomes clear why a Charedi must not leave the Charedi framework. Because this is Shemad.
That was an idea Herzl had way *before* he became a Zionist. The Dreyfus affair caused him to throw all that out entirely, because he realized that Jews would never be accepted no matter what they did. To cite that is the equivalent of saying that a ba'al teshuva once ate pork.
Or a little earlier. When he was a kid, he was wonder-struck by סיפור יציאת מצרים and this lead to a (prescient? megalomaniacal? ) dream. He was taken by משיח to the heavens and met משה רבינו on the cloud. משיח proclaimed, "This is the child we've been waiting for!".
so, to steal from the Zionist state is mitsva and milhemet Kodesh!
Entire lifetimes spent believing things at second or third -hand, never verifying but with such absolute certainty. The first people they cheat are themselves.
Your analysis is correct. Unfortunately, your AI generated picture deflects attention from the argument. Why does a charedi ganav look like the Lubavitcher Rebbe, beard, fedora and all. Why not generate an image of your real culprit?
I don't find it to easy to get the AI to generate the correct image
Designed to work that way to avoid copyright infringement, IIUC.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/our-shared-nation-is-under-attack-a-haredi-rabbi-explains-how-to-draft-the-ultra-orthodox/
Food for thought.
Let's step back from this a little. What in G-d's name will the future of the country look like?
Everything I read here sounds too incredible to be real, and yet, a short search later, nope, turns out it’s true.
Genuinely stunning
What a Sheigetz he is…..
"And yet charedim wonder why their group is despised, and accuse their critics of hating Torah"
You sound like Jackson Hinkle or Nick Fuentes over here. Why should a random Chareidi be responsible for Goldknopf's actions? Only someone full of hate would make this connection.
"Epstein was Jewish and the Jews wonder why they were kicked out of 109 countries!"
He's not a "random" charedi - he's the leader of their political party, which represents the Gedolim!
But of course, the main reason why charedim are despised is for avoiding army service and demanding to be paid to do so.
"Why should a random Chareidi be responsible for Goldknopf's actions?"
He shouldn't.
He should go out and protest with posters "נמות ולא נצביע לאגודה" or if they want to strike a more conciliatory tone, "נלך לכלא, ולא נצביע לאגודה"
In other words, you think he badly miscalculated as to how his haredi audience would react to his boasting of having cheated other Israelis? He thought they'd be thrilled (hence the bragging), but in reality they were appalled, with their rabbinnic leaders and news outlets calling for his resignation?
Im appalled. Many others are. Goldknopf is a reason many don't vote gimmel
I'm sure you are appalled, as are some others.
But Goldkopf knows his audience -- and you're not it.
Charedim were about as “appalled” by Goldknopf’s actions as the chief of police was that gambling was happening in Rick’s Cafe American in Casablanca….
Most Charedim didn't vote for him - no one votes for an individual in Israel, as you probably know. Most Charedim voted for Gimmel because the rabbis told them to, or because they themselves agree with Gimmel's positions more than any other party. Goldknopf had nothing to do with it.
Is there one other party that is fighting to keep bochurim out of the Army? Because we hold our noses about a lot to be able to keep Yeshivos going.
Does it tell you something that you need elect a corrupt gangster in order to keep the yeshivas going?
It depends which choir you belong to. If it's your foregone conclusion that yeshivas the way they currently are, are bad, electing a gangster is the proof of the pudding. If it's your foregone conclusion that yeshivas the way they currently are, are good, electing a gangster is a necessary evil. Gangsters know how to fight in an often hostile environment while good guys come in last. Use as needed.
Have you ever considered NOT stealing bread from the mouths of the children whose families work? Not demanding that better men and women die for your privilege?
That's not the issue here, Halt kupp.
If you don't care about Yeshivos, it is easy to casually take the high road.
Now that politics controls our lives, we have to send people to the filthy knesset and deal with people we wish we didn't have to.
We take the best choice we have. Purism is another word for destruction. Nobody chooses purist ideals when it comes to their personal lives. The demand is always at the expense of a greater value.
Agudas Yisrael runs with Degel Hatorah in one alliance as UTJ.
The Aguda represents far more voters.