I was in E"Y in Yeshiva when the Yom Kippur War started. All the Yeshivos did the right thing, Nobody went home for Bein Hazmanim, only they stayed in the Yeshiva learning day and night.
I hope there was a call up that all Yeshiva and Kollel students should immediately return to the Bais Medrash and not wait until Rosh Chodesh. The Zechus HaTorah will be just as important as the mobilization of the IDF.
No, the "zechus torah" of those who avoid their responsibilities is not remotely as important as the mobilization of the IDF. It's like people who learn Torah on erev Shabbos instead of helping their wives.
Your tone-deafness is shocking, but not surprising for a hater of Hashem, as per Rabbenu Yonah.
My nephew hasn't finished basic training yet, and being charedi, they put him to work in the chevra kadisha. How many jobs can completely untrained and often unsuitable charedim do before you stop? Would you have them all in the chevra kadisha to satisfy your hatred of those dedicated to learning full time? Even if only 1 in a 1000 learned at a level to make a difference, it would be worth tolerating the 999 for the sake of the 1. And it's hardly that bad.
There is a place for men whose sole job is to learn on behalf of the nation. In a modern army, a small fraction of the troops are actually trained in combat. Israel is no different.
My son who has been in America since Purim and was in a combat unit and stationed in one of the bases recently overrun and was mobilized is working on getting back to HaAretz.
Since the museum is closed and you are now rendered a useless knuckle-dragging mouth breather while war rages, how about you volunteer your services? The chevra kadisha could certainly use more learned rabbis among their ranks right about now. I'll introduce you to my nephew.
I think we're on the same page. Even Moshe Rabeinu had Yehoshua lead the war while he davened.
But for those who are not in the army, for whatever amount of reasons, our avoda is to strengthen our service of God as much as possible. And that should be strongly stressed as the Jewish response to an עת צרה
Those in Yeshiva don’t even reach the soles of the boots of those who place their lives on the line. And I’m talking about ruchniyot. Let’s see them take a stand to protect others. Whose sacrifices do you think HaShem “appreciates” more.
And I promise you any of these bachurim would give their lives in a second rather than violate the Torah c'v. Like eating chazer bshaas hashmad. Or any other single issur or even heilige minhag yisroel.
Some people see thousands of dedicated individuals, who have set aside personal ambition to devote their lives to something greater than themselves. There is little glory in true Torah knowledge, outside of the insular Torah world, and even then, not as much as you would think. But learning G-d's word is more important than their own advancement.
Others see something else. It depends on what you have shmeared on your glasses.
I'm just curiously asking, has Rabbi Natan Slifkin served? Not his kids, but the Rabbi himself? If not, maybe join right now? ("They won't accept me" is a lame excuse. Go ahead and offer them your conscription.)
Second question: would the Museum ever have come about? Or would there be a different museum, one discussing the calibre of ammunition required to pierce the armour of a Russian T-80....
All of that aside, probably, if given a choice, many very kind and responsible Charedi Yeshiva students would actually like to serve. There are other issues preventing them- mostly political in nature. I cannot even place all of the blame on the Roshei Yeshivos. The Army leadership itself is very opposed to accommodating Charedi recruits in regular units. Go figure.
Hint: What it is that makes a person good at killing people, is not what makes a good Yeshiva Scholar.
Can we find other military responsibilities that are intellectual, and go alongside a Torah-studying lifestyle? It's an open question. But I think there are, and the IDF would know. That is where you should be looking.
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I just want to conclude with an analogy; one a little different from yours, of the Kollel Scholar who doesn't help with the Shabbos preparations. The Scholar wanted to help, but was told he must do so in a way that was contrary to either his beliefs or his abilities. He tried asking for some changes, but his wife flatly refused. After giving up hope, he went back to studying. While not perfect, it is far more accurate.
There are videos circulating right now of the Israeli army boasting how its fences and sophisticated defenses made Israel impregnable. And yet with bare bones equipment costing .00001% of the defense budget, they came right on through.
Nissim Black said it best, in a simple sentence: "We need the army, but the army needs God."
So where was god yesterday when Yidden needed him the most? During our recent Yom Kipur, it appears that your breast-beating supplications were insufficient to stir god’s empathy and altruism in Israel’s favor.
So which of god’s implorations were you deficient in? Was it Tshuvah or Tfillah or Tzedakah? Maybe all three or only 2 of the 3 or perhaps just 1. Wouldn’t it be nice for god to tell you which of the three supplications you were deficient in before deciding to kill thousands of blameless Yidden.
Uriah - this blog, for all its misguided opinions, is still a religious one. The blog host, all of us - אנחנו מאמינים בני מאמינים. If you have lost your faith, then I feel very bad for you, but you don't belong here any more. This is no longer your home.
BUT IF you are still, as I hope, hanging on, even if by a thread, and your angst is nothing more than lashing out at God as anguished Jews have done for thousands of years, then take heart. The ways of the Lord are inscrutable. We are simply too small and too temporal to see the big picture. All we can do is what we have been taught to do by the Torah itself, and by the prophets and the teachers through the millennia: pray to Him. He desires our prayer, and He listens.
Yes we are not guaranteed protection. As Yaacov was afraid of Esav ,perhaps his sin will forfeit G-d's protection.Yaacov took practical steps to protect his family and people,including Tefillah.
It wasn't him you low life, it was the jews who are indeed deficient in 1 or 2 or 3...and there are many...no, that doesn't excuse the terrorists, they will all land in hell...but the way you are going...you might make it there too.
When someone sees a Yid in the Beis Hamedrash on Friday afternoon, when most people are busy with other things, many thoughts can pass through his head. Those thoughts have nothing to do with the reality at hand. They are all based on the personal feelings of the thinker.
The Friday afternoon Masmid could:
1. Have a home system that is super-organized, and by early Friday afternoon there is nothing left for anyone to do. His wife is relaxing at home, saying Tehillim, reading the Medrash Says or playing with the children.
2. Have multiple teenage daughters that will do a better job than him and not be needed at home.
3. Have two left hands, and his wife thinks he helps her best by keeping far away from the house.
4. Have no children at home and no real responsibilities there.
5. Have a wife who respects his learning too much to allow him to work at home, and would actually feel guilty using his help.
But none of that matters to the person whose mind sees 'a Yid learning' and automatically searches for a negative way to frame it.
As Rashi writes in Parshas Bechukosai. It starts off by lowering the value of Torah learning. Some people have decided that learning Torah is not that important. But it does not stop there. Shortly afterwards, they reach the level of מואס באחרים העושים. Not only is Torah learning unimportant in the eyes of these people, it actually becomes a negative in their eyes.
I am under no illusion that Slifkin's mind will be changed. But for the average reader here, don't be impressed with his half sources and simplistic logic. When we realize that all of this is backed by a great zilzul in Torah and it's Giver, nothing he writes is to be taken seriously.
Noson Jesus. You would not have spoken such pure apikorsus before 2005. You got screwed over and because of that you completely changed your hashkafa. It's sad that an intelligent person like yourself is so weak in spirit. As you know I have stood up for what is right. That's not only in your case but I have stood up against rabbis who were krum in other matters. I was even expelled from the local vaad harabbonim because they couldn't stand hearing the true derech hatorah l was not afraid to say. The flack I took had zero effect on my emuna or hashkafa.
So you are dead wrong. Zechus hatorah is the reason Israel has not become a defunct state. My position is totally rational but I'm not going to explain why here.
The mistake you make is in thinking that zechus Hatorah comes specifically from the people who should be serving in the army, as opposed to all the other people who are learning Torah
Ephraim, you are not a chochom, quite the opposite. Everything I have said about Noson Slifkin, including comparing him to the Jesus character as described by Chazal, is clearly meant in the spirit of imploring him to do Teshuva.
There are boundaries to, "You have your approach and he has his." If Noson preached the exact same approach as he does now but with one added belief, that Jesus is the messiah son of god, would you say, "You have your approach and he has his"?
Perhaps you are not aware, but Chazal define an apikorus as:
אפיקורוס כגון מאן? ־ אמר רב יוסף: כגון הני דאמרי מאי אהנו לן רבנן? לדידהו קרו, לדידהו תנו.
Fill up the coffee pots! Warm those chairs! Like they are really doing anything. 126 soldiers so far have paid the supreme price. They are cowered and shirkers.
Yeah, all that zechus hatorah didn’t deter Hamas from its genocidal butchery as is evidenced by all those useless zechusim throughout the years of holocaust.
All those thousands of yeshiva and kollel folks studying holy 4th century tort law didn’t count for a hill of beans, all those zechusim a worthless palaver of self delusion and pretext not to subject themselves to the dangers facing Israeli soldiers.
When levelheaded Jews see the idiocy spouted by Sender they make just one brucha every day — she’assani secular. And it’s one great reason that the majority of Jews are off the derech and want no association with chareidi/Orthodox society.
At another time, I'd argue with you. Now, I'd simply suggest you save your anger for the real enemy. Shalom, sister. In the truest meaning of the word.
Maybe it's low lives like you that cause the problems. Maybe if perverts like you didn't drop judiasm like a bomb before the holocaust Maybe then things would be better.. look into your own soul you sicko.
We were in a miniyan with my older children, and my wife was at home with our baby who was still sleeping.
We didn't hear anything inside, but by the end of Hallel someone entered the room and shouted אזעקה, but we understood הקפה, twice. Finally in the confusion someone got it and we went to the garage of the synagogue. Within 15 seconds we had a huge blast over our heads, it was the כיפת ברזל
After that every was sent to their security rooms, and we had 4 alarms all morning. We thought they were sending rockets to Jerusalem as it happened a few times in the last years, unaware of what was going on.
At Mincha people started saying Tehilim and many of our neighbours were leaving the ishuv to go to the army.
Just had to wait and try to rejoice until Shabbat and the Chag were out. Then, after Havdalah, we would usually take some time without phones and other stuff, but this time we turned on the phones immediately to the heartbreaking news. 100 killed and who knows how many kidnapped, plus thousands of rockets. It was beyond believe, only to have the number of murdered multiplied by seven just in hours. Now we start understanding the full extent of what happened, and I am terrified to think what we have ahead. I am certain of our military victory, but what we have lost is unfortunately lost.
We are bleeding, sad, upset and everything you want. We need to prepare for hard weeks ahead of us and do whatever we can for our country, our only country.
And please, let us let politics and futile discussions aside. The reason what this happen is that Hamas and Co are a cult of death, and did precisely that. All the rest we will discuss once we are done with them, the time will come to look for responsibility in our own government and military. But now we still have terrorists in our territory and victims who have not yet been burried. And perhaps most terrifying, over hundred of our people taken hostage in Gaza and thousands of our soldiers who are ready to give all they have for the sake of every Jew in the world. That is what matters now.
I'm no גדול הדור or נביא but it seems uncanny that a disaster that will inevitably unite the country, occurs after the most divisive period in the country in recent times
Notleast the disgraceful scenes בשעת נעילה
(קשה עלי פרידתכם, said by Hashem on שמיני עצרת, is explained by some to refer to פירוד between segments of Jewry)
Such a terrible situation, it's unfathomable. Yes, you are right, יפשפש במעשיו.
If only secularists didn't harass mitpallilim the way they did, just days ago, ON YOM KIPPUR in Tel Aviv, with virulent hate.
If only Netanyahu didn't open his big mouth attacking Hashem publically, blaming Him for not protecting... despite how Hashem constantly protects...well look what happened now, and Netanyahu is caught off guard like a dumby not knowing what to do.
Hopefully if we take the lessons to heart Hashem WILL hear our prayers even more than if we just pray without recognizing the mistakes.
"The strike was intended to hit Israel while it appeared distracted by internal political divisions over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government."
"Some observers have pointed to unprecedented societal divisions wrought by the government’s plans to overhaul the judiciary and attendant protests as having given Hamas the impression that Israel was weakened and ripe for attack."
Armchair nonsense. There's never a time when Israel isn't dealing with internal division, and never a time when its enemies aren't plotting to attack it. The fighting over judicial reform didn't prompt the attack, but it makes all the Hillel Halkins of the world, who forgot who our REAL enemies are, look like fools. [Edit - and I see now intelligence already shows this attack was planned more than a year ago, long before the protests.]
The only question right now is how massive the response. Most seem to feel it has to be overwhelming, nothing less than 50,000 dead. No sophisticates, no overthinking it, none of this brainiac "Oh, we can't do that" stupidity. Do it, and deal with condemnations later. When we take our own counsel, like bombing the reactor and the preemptive strike of '67, it works out. When we listen to others, like Oslo and the Gaza expulsion, this is what we get back. For God's sake, how long will Israel fail to learn from history. Turn Gaza into a parking lot, and do it now.
It's very early, but it appears that there was a 'קונספציה' on the Israeli side that Hamas couldn't/wouldn't breach the barrier and that שקט ייענה בשקט. But I don't have the stomach to delve into it right now. There will be plenty of time for recriminations and fallout later, at both the political and operational level.
"There will be plenty of time for recriminations and fallout later, at both the political and operational level. "
(Speculation warning!)
Maybe the "later" is a good thing. The sooner the international "community" pressures for a cease fire, the sooner the reckoning will come. Bibi will not survive the fallout; his only option for (temporary) political survival is to ignore the inevitable international pressure for a ceasefire and to not to abandon the war too prematurely as he has done in the past.
Heads of government have been assassinated. Jews committed piguim against other Jews. Gush katif. We do have more extreme examples of division in the history of our country. The attack is unprecedented, the level of division isn't. The two don't correlate.
Noson, your response is senseless. I NEVER intimated that Zechus Hatorah is exclusively from any group. If a soldier in the heat of battle, is able to take a break and takes out a Mishne or a daf yomi from his pocket to learn, for sure he is contributing to Zechus Hatorah. You can have your personal opinion that all Bene Torah should serve in the army (and maybe even base it on Torah sources), but Gedolei Torah, who know a lot more than you or me have made it clear that they hold that one can dedicate himself to full time learning and, al pi Halacha, he is exempt from the army in accordance to the psak of the Rambam. I also have my opinion on some matters (totally based on Torah opinion) that differs with a lot of Gedolei Torah, but I understand and respect their opinion, although I disagree. That is, Rav Hirsch's Torah Im Derech Eretz. We know the Rambam agreed with that approach besides Rav Hirsch and many others, and it is the basic model on American Torah education (at least through highschool). I have grandchildren in Lakewood that are not following that approach, and I respect it. As for parnasa, I'm not worried, as we read in Ashre, Poseach es yadecha etc.
Recently I dovened in a very rich shul in Lakewood. I asked a fellow, "Do you know why this shul is so rich?" I answered, because the baalei baatim DIDN"T go to college! (They went into nursing homes, real estate and importing from the Far East after 5 or 10 years in kollel. Had they graduated with Batcheler's degrees they would have had a decent federal government job.)
Bottom Line, ALL people that learn Torah L'shma generate Zecus Hatorah. As I mentioned before, without the plethora of Torah Learning in E"Y by hundreds of thousands full time and part time learners, that is in the Mir, Hevron, Ponevez, Mercaz, Gush, Kerem B'Yavne, etc. the Medina would have collapsed decades ago.
"Gedolei Torah, who know a lot more than you or me have made it clear that they hold that one can dedicate himself to full time learning and, al pi Halacha, he is exempt from the army in accordance to the psak of the Rambam."
These are the same Gedolim who believe that Rambam was of the view that Chazal were infallible in science. They don't have a clue what Rambam actually held and they don't really want to know.
Noson, you are delusional. NOBODY thinks Chazal were infallible in science. There is proof, clear as day, that such a notion is ridiculous, and anybody who stated such a thing was not serious! But you must be a sucker to think they were serious. As a matter of fact, nobody thinks any one Tana or Amora was infallible in Halacha. The broad consensus of Chazal we follow (call it infallible if you wish) as practice is because that IS Rabbinic Judaism.
In any case the broad consensus of Gedolei Torah, one who know some scince, some who do not know much about science is that full time Torah learners perform a service to klal Yisroel that exempts them from compulsory military service.
I personally believe that if the Israeli government made a voluntary program during bein hazmanim, training bene Torah in the use of firearms and basic military weaponry (e.g. mortars, rpg, etc.), that 50-90% of them would go for it, and the Roshei Yeshiva would not say anything. Back in 1969 I was in Bais Hatalmud in Bayit Vegan and bein hazmanim we had a voluntary course for several days in the deployment and use of firefighting equipment. Most guys attended (Israelis and Americans).
From previous discussions with you, I know you have a history of lying, but for everybody else, Rabbi Meiselman writes explicitly that Chazal were not infallible in science (or anything else, for that matter).
Moshe Meiselman owes Slifkin and all "rational" Jews an apology. None the less, since his drumming Slifkin has gone off the bat. In any case, as I read Meiselman's book, it stared me in the face that Meiselman himself did not believe half of what he wrote.
"Having been bedridden for a week with a persistent virus, I was not in shul when the siren went on the morning of Shabbat/ Shemini Atzeret. My wife and I closed ourselves and our children in the Mamad (reinforced room) with absolutely no idea what was going on.
......
(At this point I had written a very long piece about a sensitive topic, triggered by something extremely offensive that I heard today. I’ve been advised that it might not be a good idea to share it right now, so I’ve removed it. Maybe I’ll share it another time.)"
Based on your timeline, it sounds like it was an immediate family member who set you off.
May the A-lmighty protect your daughter together with all other soldiers in Israel.
May the IDF, with the help of G-d, quickly free the people of Gaza from the Hamas regime, bring the captives home safely, provide comfort to the hundreds of bereaved families, send a quick and full recovery to the thousands of injured, and bring a long lasting peace to the residents of the South so never again will the need to run to bomb shelters in the night, and bring peace to all of עם ישרשאל.
Rabbi, regarding you suggestion for mental health services I am in touch with the head of a large Jewish mental health org in the US who would like to offer services. please message me misaacson [at] gmail
1. Being Nosei B'ol, Gevald...! Davening! Being Marbeh Zechuyos!
2. Getting off the computer asap and doing that.
3. A great Israeli Rosh Yeshiva said about how the YK war came about, that it's explicit in Avos that among other things, Ivus Hadin causes war, and not long before the YK war a terrible Ivus Hadin had occurred with the implicit(?) support of the Israeli gov't . (IOW, he looked outwards. Did he also look inwards? I'm sure.)
4. Why are people busy with their SINGLE causer? What about zeh v'zeh garmu? What about Lo Nechtam G'zar Dinam Ela Al Hagezel by the Mabul, that there were multiple factors
5. Looking outward while looking inward is fine, and when done very properly, important.
"And the fourth division [of speech] is the beloved, and that is speech in praise of intellectual virtues or dispositional virtues and in disgrace of both types of vice - to awaken the soul to the virtues with stories and songs, and to prevent the vices in these same ways. ... to disgrace the bad about their vices, so that their action and their memory be disgraced in the eyes of people and that they distance themselves from them and not act according to their practices."
6. An element in Bibi's Uman speech, and other of his public statements, (such as when French Jewry experienced terrorism and he invited them to Israel), is that thanks to the state, Israel is the safest place. With this, according to my conjecture, he opened the door for the Midas Hadin to settle accounts with us for our sins, and he be chastised.
What exactly is it that I don’t know what I’m talking about? If you were honest, instead of just being dismissive, you’d buttress your position with a cogent response instead of simply saying that I be cancelled. That really doesn’t support your argument.
I do not want to cause unrelated debates, but what do you as a rationalist think your davening will achieve for the safety or success of israeli soldiers?
btw, can you share your thoughts on this situation going on? i'd love to hear your perspective. if you want you can email me at davidschulmannn@gmail.com
Hamas sees itself abandoned, so they started this surprise attack, utilizing the internal israeli divisions.
Hamas promised not to harm civilians (which for them includes only old people and children). All other israelis, since they are serving in the army, are military combatants and in hamas' view necessary targets, hence they shot these people on the rave party.
(There have been rumours on twitter about israeli women raped, but I haven't see any evidence. The story of 40 beheaded babies seems to be false, too and a picture of caged israeli children turned out to be an old picture of palestinian children).
Cuz Hamas goal with all these hostages is to get as many palestinians as possible out of prison. Last time israel released a 1000 palestinians for one captured soldier, imagine then now.
I think Hamas' strategy is wrong.
In Islamic Law, there is nothing legally wrong in killing any armed zionist in a state of war (whether woman or man, whether rabbi or layman and it doesn't have to be a soldier of the regular army tzahal, but even e.g. an armed settler like those in the west bank).
However, this indiscriminate killing and bombing is a war-crime, considering that many of the 1000 killed israelis are Arab Muslims (mostly the bedouins who live there in the south of israel) and who do not serve the army, rendering hamas' justification futile.
Non-Muslims are, in Islamic Law, in one of 4 possible categories. In three of these (dhimmi, mu'ahad, mustaman) it is prohibited to kill them, in one (harbi) only armed combatants can be killed (which could include women, old people and monks, with the condition that they are themselves armed and trying to kill you, but it is usually prohibited to kill them https://sunnah.com/muslim:1744b).
For references from classical Islamic jurists on war, see the book al-Badaai as-Sania from the jurist al-Kasani (12th century) https://shamela.ws/index.php/book/8183/1832 and the book al-Mughni from Ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi (13th century) https://shamela.ws/book/8463/4225 and the book Ahkam ahli dhimma by Ibn al-Qayyim (14th century).
Moving away from the strategy, the logic behind the attack itself is this: israel is built on zionism, the idea that jews must get an independent jewish state in zion i.e. palestine. But for such a state, one inevitably needs a majority jewish population which requires the ethnic cleansing or even genocide of the current majority population i.e. Arab muslims and Arab xtians. Some of them can stay (so called arab israelis) but most of them must go away.
Hence, for hamas, zionism is an irredemable ideology and its construct israel must be destroyed.
Emotionally I understand and even support this view. I have nothing against a jewish state in palestine per se, if there had been a realistic solution made by both sides without ethnic cleasing and personally I would even be ready to grant jews a specific place on the Temple mountain for davening.
But purely logically and legally speaking, I think that Hamas' attack was wrong.
Rafael, can you please explain how the Hamas leaders calling for a "GLOBAL day of jihad" has anything to do with seeing all Israelis as threats, as this concerns all Jews in the world.
Rafael, you present a reasoned argument to the Islamic position, but is it the "only" approach? I would like to hear how Shaikh Palazzi would respond. I had a long email exchange with him about 20 years ago and he appeared to me to be a great Islamic scholar such as yourself.
My personal, practical understanding is that Islamic scholarly theory plays little or no role in the Hamas guidebook. Its fighters are brainwashed or mesmerized robots that have been programmed to indiscriminately seek and kill their prey just as aggressive-natured snakes will do. In at least one instance, an Israeli couple attacked in one of the settlements, gave food, and told the attackers they are brothers, sons of Abraham, started singing together with the Hamas attackers and penetrated the mindless state of that squadron of Hamas attackers. The attackers kind of woke up from their stupor and became cognizant of the horrible action they were programmed to carry out and did not harm these people.
"My personal, practical understanding is that Islamic scholarly theory plays little or no role in the Hamas guidebook." I agree with you rabbi goldberg.
If you mean by "different approaches" a possible islamic legal argument for a recognition of israel, I think that palazzi is wrong for defending the current zionist entity.
As I said in other comments, in essence, we have nothing against a jewish state per se, provided that both sides agreed on realistic functioning states without ethnic cleansing.
God does affirm in the Qur'an that He gave the holy Land to the israelites. However, He also constantly points out that jews should convert to Islam and accept Muhammad saws as Gods Final Messenger,. Thats an important point that palazzi leaves out. Comparing israel to what the israelites got is a false equivalence, too.
Ismail al-Faruqi was a palestinian politologist. He used to be an arab nationalist and supremacist. However, he renounced that and made Islam his sole political, legal and ideological view. Besides the inevitable zionist ethnic cleansing and the theological differences between Islam and judaism, Faruqi identified a third problem with israel that palazzi did not consider. The zionist project and entity called israel is not religious anyway (a zionist who even disbelieves in the Torah cares even less about the Qur'an as a reason for the establishment of Israel). Its a secularist, nationalist (and at that time socialist) state, that Muslims could never accept.
Faruqi asked for the renouncing of arab nationalism, secularism and remnants of colonial law in these contemporary postcolonial artificial arab states that we have today (I think he would agree on the establishment of a unified Caliphate).
In the same token, he argued that israel must become a rabbinical medinat halakha and get rid of the socialist, secularist and democratic zionist baggage. In such a case, an Islamic state and a jewish state could continuously live in peace together in a confederation (whoch would mean a state similar to the shengen accord we have in europe). Such a jewish state, where jews follow jewish law, Muslims Sharia, xtians whatever they want, that would be acceptable. Cuz historically, thats how Caliphates worked: Muslims have their law, jews their and the only thing was that jews had to pay the jizya tax, which did not apply in times where the Caliphate could not military protect the jewish population. this was especially the case at border regions. If the siraelis set up their own army and protection, one might drop the jizya too.
I think this plan would be reasonable taking the current situation into account (at least from my Muslims and your jewish perpsective, a secularist israeli or secularist atheist arab,might be siffering a heart attack reading this)
But as long as the whole "oNly dEmocRacy iN tHe miDdle EasT" propaganda trope continues, israel is considered a foreign, colonialist and implanted element
I agree with the second half of your comment (if I agreed with the first half I wouldn't be Jewish) in theory, but as it is obvious, given the current situation we are way past such a possibility. We'd have to Brainwash both sides for many years.
as far as the only democracy thing you mention, I always thought it was Americans who came up with that at a point when most countries in the middle east were dominated to some level by dictators or terrorists. While some things may be different now, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon Libya, Jordan Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, all have this problem in their recent history.
Now if you mean that even Israel is not democratic because of Arabs lacking rights, which ones are you referring to? The ones living in Israel proper do, and the ones living in the West bank are not under Israel authority.
I mean, israel is an ethno state that needs ethnic cleansing and a discriminating immigration policy. Have you ever wondered why neo-nazis like richard spencer or nick fuentes praise israel explicity for that? I am a white european straight man and if I asked for similar things I would be branded a white supremacist (rightfully so) and you know the adl and souther poverty law center would warn everybody from me.
Kahane has written a lot about the irreconcilable differences betseen zionism and democracy. My point was, that even if israel were a true democracy, that would affirm it being a foreign, implanted and colonial state, cuz democracy is not an asian, african, australian, chinese or native-american or even eastern european phenomenon, but a western euoropean one. There were social and political circumstances in england beginning from the 13ht to the 19th century that gave birth to the democracy we today have (the german politologist dieter grosser wrote about that) and made it possible. But even the existence of these circumstances do not guarantee democracy (see german democracy that was replaced by the nazis through the votes of millions of germans). The Muslims world is united and defined by Islam and Shaira law, hence secularists and colonialists pushed for nationalism and tribalistic conflicts and established these artificial nation states. Add to that the lack of the particular circumstances, it is clear why democracy does not exist among arabs either.
Shulman here is handling most of your comments, but I want to know this: Hamas sees all Israelis between 18 and 67 as military targets. Is that also what the average civilian in Gaza believes? Even if not, if Israeli's were to apply the reverse logic, and look at Gaza they way they look at Israel, wouldn't that mean for every person in Gaza that Israeli's would look at as a threat?
My point is, if it is an equal 2 way struggle for survival, no side is necessarily wrong and can work with the same rules in an effort to annihilate each other as rules of war. I am not a fan of that, but otherwise this would be a double standard. It doesn't look like anything will change (unless they adopt your approach, something brought up in the 30's by Dr Jacob Dehan and was killed for it).
I hope I am not coming out sounding like I am advocating that, I am simply saying that if this logic is being used to identify the enemy it is either barbaric or right, not simply a wrong strategy or understanding the way you put it.
I do not know whether the average Gazan civilian thinks the same. I haven't seen any representative surveys on that. I do not know what the average israeli thinks, either. But certainly, the Hamas and Israeli political leadership do treat this as a 2 way struggle for survival. For netanyahu, this disgrace is also a struggle for his political survival.
I don't know what the average Gazan thinks for sure, but in 2006 Hamas got 45% of the vote, seemingly supporting Hamas positions. Fatah also got 41%, I don't think that party thinks any different than it's founder, Yassar Arafat. Could be they don't have much of a choice and they are voting them in for other benefits that they prioritize, I'd be curious to hear if that is the case.
As far as the last comment, I agree that almost all politicians think about one thing only, and that is themselves. However, being that the best thing for their selfish state is satisfying their constituents thereby earning their popularity, that is a good motivation to do the will of the people. If most people didn't agree with him he wouldn't be doing it.
What do you mean by "this disgrace"? the conflict in general, the atrocities, or the way the country's divided?
He was completely taken by surprise, unprepared and bamboozled. The army arrived 4 hours after the shootings begun. Some even called for netanyahus resignation or talk about conspiracy. Instead, bibi was busy throuhgout the year with pushing a divisive and unpopular judicial reform that could conveniently help him and other convicted ministers. Remember when his moronic drunken son yair in front of a brothel was recorded talking about his fathers' dubious deals with oligarchs? One might dismiss yairs words as drunken juvenile nonsense, but netanyahu immediately then tried to pass a law banning recordings like that. Nobody denies that israel needs a judicial reform, but this one goes to the other extreme and its a part of netanyahus self-serving pattern.
at least some the rapings have been confirmed by videos which i won't go into detail here, but just one example of many, one video was shown on cnn, and they spoke with the mother of the girl in the video, shani louk, and got permission to air it to show the atrocities - which makes it sound pretty real... we are always cautious when watching these kinds of things that perhaps its not a valid source, but there were definitely some confirmed.
the beheading is hearsay right now and we may never know if true, but there were definitely atrocities that were confirmed very clearly (as things go, meaning through solid journalism).
many israeli's btw don't support this whole occupation thing as a principle because of the conflicts it's causing. many prominent rabbis were against the establishment of a state because it isn't necessarily the appropriate hishtadlus (human efforts) to be the safe haven the Zionists claimed it would be. but we have no problem living there and even appreciate having what we believe to be our homeland back after all this time.
for the most part things have become so radicalized that at this point a two state solution is simply impossible, which is what happens when we stop being able to trust each other to make a treaty, and this goes both ways of course. but at this point with Hamas and Hezbollah and others, with Iran backing them, it really is an them or them situation and no one knows how to get out of this mess:(
as in all politics, we never really know who to trust and we all have our biases, and i hope this can be resolved without more pain
i also understand that many Palestinians do not back Hamas and we have nothing against them (you)
as a side, it seems unfair to say that any random citizen of israel shoudld b fair game as long as they are armed, because they are only armed for protection. because they live close that is a crime?
and the next q is, what is israel's response supposed to be now, but to fight back?
If the crimes are true I condemn them. You will notice that Muslims do not have a problem with condemning crimes. Most of the time we are just calling out fake news, exaggerated or decontextualized reports and especially double standards. In other words, just as we are condemning crimes, it would be nice if e.g. the chief rabbinate were to condemn the thousands of murdered palestinian women and children over the years.
Instead I saw orthodox rabbis making analogies to amalek (and you know better than me the halakha regarding their fate). Palestinians themsleves do not want a genocide, neither the xtian nor the Muslim ones.
You can imagine that most if not all of these Hamas fighters have dead relatives murdered by zionists and that this fueled their hatred.
P. S. Read my statement again. I said "in a state of war", I am not saying jews in israel can't own weapon against crime.
i think most of the rabbis comparing to amalek are mostly comparing hamas to them, not palestinians in general. (also they usually don't mean it in a halachic sense, just like slifkin has been (wrongly) compared to amalek) but many of them don't know that there is a difference. i myself don't know what the classic Muslim take is on what they want in life. are Hamas just a true religious group standing for true Muslim values, and the 'tame' Muslims are less religious? or are there different takes on how to read the Qur'an? what si going on there?
we, for example, want our religion to become clear to the world and we are pained that other people turn to other ideas of God with different rules and laws and desires. including the Muslim religion (we won't debate this now, just sharing our perspective). we await the day when things become clear and Muslims, xtians, atheists and all alike recognize the Jewish God as supreme (including believers recognizing Him more constantly, directly and to a more powerful degree). but we don't do anything about it except perfect ourselves and our relationship with Him. we believe that if we would perfect ourselves in our relationship with Him, He will figure out the rest. so Jews in general have never been a threat to any government (until this occupation).
but what do Muslims believe? what do authentic, really religious Muslims believe? is it their place to make themselves on top? to force the word to recognize their truth? if yes, isn't Hamas doing the right thing in your eyes? (in the sense that killing infidels is like our killing amalek)
Of course we would like Islam to be ruling religion of the world. A liberal wishes for a liberal world order, a communist for a communist one, american american one, russian russian one and chinese chinese one.
He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse to it.
Qur'an 61:9
When you believe that your values, which lead to what you call perfection, are morally correct and even from a universal God, Who is the Creator of the entire cosmos, then of course you would wish that Law to be ruling in the world. It doesn't mean that all individuals have to abandon their own beliefs. Their communities have their autonomies and rules and the individual will not be forced to abandon his beliefs, simply because true belief necessitate ikhlas (sincerity). But the ruling supreme law and measure for everything is of course Gods true will. Hence I mentioned Ibn Qayyims book on the laws regarding non Muslim in the Caliphate.
The reason why Muslims scholars criticise Hamas is because they are implementing this goal in the wrong way. They are not criticising the goal itself.
There is a principle in Islamic Law called الحكم على الشيء فرع عن تصوره which basically means in order to judge a thing you need a full understanding of its reality.
As I explained, Hamas didn't have that full understanding. They classified anybody living on the other side of the fence between the age of 18-67 as a reservist and hence a necessary military target. This is wrong and does injustice to the demographic diversity of that part of israel.
Hamas also calculated, based on previous experience, that tzahal will not bomb gaza indiscrimnately because of the hostages. This assumption, though reasonable, turned out to be false, too
I would say the same problem goes for rabbis who are paskening against all Palestinians collectively.
But as a jew, you do expect all goyim to one day bow in front of the jewish God (and of course you do). So there comes forcing beliefs from your side too. And always remember that the seven nations who previously inhabited Kanaan tasted that coercion too in bloody ways, just like the 70% of jews will, who are chilonim and mechalelim shabbat and not eating kosher (and you know the halakha regarding such crimes).
אבל אם לא יזעקו ולא יריעו אלא יאמרו דבר זה ממנהג העולם אירע לנו וצרה זו נקרה נקרית. הרי זו דרך אכזריות וגורמת להם להדבק במעשיהם הרעים. ותוסיף הצרה צרות אחרות.
No one said that our religious and moral actions are not part of the equation.Noone excluded prayer and Tshuva from the equation. At the same time natural events and consequences are also part of the equation.Human actions and effort are crucial but not enough to overcome Jewish religious failures. We pray for G-d's chesed and His Rachmanut.
Note that well: the person is called an אכזר, a "cruel" person, not a רשע or a שוטה. I heard the reason in the name of R. Ruderman: bc such a person is insensible and unfeeling, and this is where the roots of cruelty lie. An inability to empathize or feel the suffering of others.
Slifkins rationalism, as he explains it, does not exclude prayer or other Torah concepts. He is a faithful Torah believing Jew.His position rejects mysticism as a regular answer to religious questions and understanding of important religious events. Of course payer is basic to our faith and in no way does his rationalism reject it.You are confusing his rationalism that rejects religion and spiritual actions.
Rafael, praying is just something to say that will offend almost no1. At a time like this, we can still use meaningless (to us) phrases. Stalin opened all the shuttered churches during ww2.
It means that is the biggest single attack in terms of victims and hostages since the Shoah. Terror does not distinguish between civilians and military, and even Jew and gentile. I saw there were some people visiting or working in Israel non Jews, who got caught in the middle.
That's what these animals call resistance, undermining the true and glorious resistance movements in history, none of which went around killing unarmed people and children in their homes, and kidnapping elderly women and broadcasting.
That's why I know we will win, they are miserable cowards.
everyone should see this - https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-voice-from-the-frontlines
it's not an anti slifkin blog. its an honest chareidi viewpoint
I was in E"Y in Yeshiva when the Yom Kippur War started. All the Yeshivos did the right thing, Nobody went home for Bein Hazmanim, only they stayed in the Yeshiva learning day and night.
I hope there was a call up that all Yeshiva and Kollel students should immediately return to the Bais Medrash and not wait until Rosh Chodesh. The Zechus HaTorah will be just as important as the mobilization of the IDF.
No, the "zechus torah" of those who avoid their responsibilities is not remotely as important as the mobilization of the IDF. It's like people who learn Torah on erev Shabbos instead of helping their wives.
do you believe in teshuva tefila u'tzedaka...?
Absolutely. I hope that they will do teshuva.
So isn't intensifying learning and doing what God wants a major part of that?
Just as the idf needs to mobilize, we believe that it is equally/more important to strengthen our service of God...
Absolutely. But not in place of mobilizing.
So in your case, no mobilizing, no Teshuva, and generally nothing.
Nice.
Your tone-deafness is shocking, but not surprising for a hater of Hashem, as per Rabbenu Yonah.
My nephew hasn't finished basic training yet, and being charedi, they put him to work in the chevra kadisha. How many jobs can completely untrained and often unsuitable charedim do before you stop? Would you have them all in the chevra kadisha to satisfy your hatred of those dedicated to learning full time? Even if only 1 in a 1000 learned at a level to make a difference, it would be worth tolerating the 999 for the sake of the 1. And it's hardly that bad.
There is a place for men whose sole job is to learn on behalf of the nation. In a modern army, a small fraction of the troops are actually trained in combat. Israel is no different.
My son who has been in America since Purim and was in a combat unit and stationed in one of the bases recently overrun and was mobilized is working on getting back to HaAretz.
Since the museum is closed and you are now rendered a useless knuckle-dragging mouth breather while war rages, how about you volunteer your services? The chevra kadisha could certainly use more learned rabbis among their ranks right about now. I'll introduce you to my nephew.
I think we're on the same page. Even Moshe Rabeinu had Yehoshua lead the war while he davened.
But for those who are not in the army, for whatever amount of reasons, our avoda is to strengthen our service of God as much as possible. And that should be strongly stressed as the Jewish response to an עת צרה
Those in Yeshiva don’t even reach the soles of the boots of those who place their lives on the line. And I’m talking about ruchniyot. Let’s see them take a stand to protect others. Whose sacrifices do you think HaShem “appreciates” more.
And I promise you any of these bachurim would give their lives in a second rather than violate the Torah c'v. Like eating chazer bshaas hashmad. Or any other single issur or even heilige minhag yisroel.
Ummmm we kind of know the answer to that... Pretty easy to research
Uh….no maybe they should stop shirking thier duty and put their lives on the line like everyone else. Basically they are cowards.
Some people see thousands of dedicated individuals, who have set aside personal ambition to devote their lives to something greater than themselves. There is little glory in true Torah knowledge, outside of the insular Torah world, and even then, not as much as you would think. But learning G-d's word is more important than their own advancement.
Others see something else. It depends on what you have shmeared on your glasses.
According to your uninformed view of how the world works you are correct
It's always 'them' that has to do Teshuva. 'They' should start acting more like me, and all will be fine.
It's very simple. There is a war. People need to fight.
It's very simple. There is an עת צרה. People need to do Teshuva.
"It's very simple. There is a war. People need to fight."
........and blog, apparently.
Jewish take (not to the exclusion of the need to fight in our current state):There is a war. we need to turn to God and do teshuva
I'm just curiously asking, has Rabbi Natan Slifkin served? Not his kids, but the Rabbi himself? If not, maybe join right now? ("They won't accept me" is a lame excuse. Go ahead and offer them your conscription.)
Second question: would the Museum ever have come about? Or would there be a different museum, one discussing the calibre of ammunition required to pierce the armour of a Russian T-80....
All of that aside, probably, if given a choice, many very kind and responsible Charedi Yeshiva students would actually like to serve. There are other issues preventing them- mostly political in nature. I cannot even place all of the blame on the Roshei Yeshivos. The Army leadership itself is very opposed to accommodating Charedi recruits in regular units. Go figure.
Hint: What it is that makes a person good at killing people, is not what makes a good Yeshiva Scholar.
Can we find other military responsibilities that are intellectual, and go alongside a Torah-studying lifestyle? It's an open question. But I think there are, and the IDF would know. That is where you should be looking.
--------
I just want to conclude with an analogy; one a little different from yours, of the Kollel Scholar who doesn't help with the Shabbos preparations. The Scholar wanted to help, but was told he must do so in a way that was contrary to either his beliefs or his abilities. He tried asking for some changes, but his wife flatly refused. After giving up hope, he went back to studying. While not perfect, it is far more accurate.
Terrible analogy.
There are videos circulating right now of the Israeli army boasting how its fences and sophisticated defenses made Israel impregnable. And yet with bare bones equipment costing .00001% of the defense budget, they came right on through.
Nissim Black said it best, in a simple sentence: "We need the army, but the army needs God."
And upon just a minute's additional reflection, hasn't that exact same point been made by the Bible, over and over and over?
@ Garvin,
So where was god yesterday when Yidden needed him the most? During our recent Yom Kipur, it appears that your breast-beating supplications were insufficient to stir god’s empathy and altruism in Israel’s favor.
So which of god’s implorations were you deficient in? Was it Tshuvah or Tfillah or Tzedakah? Maybe all three or only 2 of the 3 or perhaps just 1. Wouldn’t it be nice for god to tell you which of the three supplications you were deficient in before deciding to kill thousands of blameless Yidden.
Yeah. It’s all your fault.
Uriah - this blog, for all its misguided opinions, is still a religious one. The blog host, all of us - אנחנו מאמינים בני מאמינים. If you have lost your faith, then I feel very bad for you, but you don't belong here any more. This is no longer your home.
BUT IF you are still, as I hope, hanging on, even if by a thread, and your angst is nothing more than lashing out at God as anguished Jews have done for thousands of years, then take heart. The ways of the Lord are inscrutable. We are simply too small and too temporal to see the big picture. All we can do is what we have been taught to do by the Torah itself, and by the prophets and the teachers through the millennia: pray to Him. He desires our prayer, and He listens.
Yes we are not guaranteed protection. As Yaacov was afraid of Esav ,perhaps his sin will forfeit G-d's protection.Yaacov took practical steps to protect his family and people,including Tefillah.
Since when was G-d altruistic?
It wasn't him you low life, it was the jews who are indeed deficient in 1 or 2 or 3...and there are many...no, that doesn't excuse the terrorists, they will all land in hell...but the way you are going...you might make it there too.
Not the religious way to relate to the questioneer.
My comment is for you and no one else, so I'm editing it.
We need God but we don’t need shirkers.
When someone sees a Yid in the Beis Hamedrash on Friday afternoon, when most people are busy with other things, many thoughts can pass through his head. Those thoughts have nothing to do with the reality at hand. They are all based on the personal feelings of the thinker.
The Friday afternoon Masmid could:
1. Have a home system that is super-organized, and by early Friday afternoon there is nothing left for anyone to do. His wife is relaxing at home, saying Tehillim, reading the Medrash Says or playing with the children.
2. Have multiple teenage daughters that will do a better job than him and not be needed at home.
3. Have two left hands, and his wife thinks he helps her best by keeping far away from the house.
4. Have no children at home and no real responsibilities there.
5. Have a wife who respects his learning too much to allow him to work at home, and would actually feel guilty using his help.
But none of that matters to the person whose mind sees 'a Yid learning' and automatically searches for a negative way to frame it.
As Rashi writes in Parshas Bechukosai. It starts off by lowering the value of Torah learning. Some people have decided that learning Torah is not that important. But it does not stop there. Shortly afterwards, they reach the level of מואס באחרים העושים. Not only is Torah learning unimportant in the eyes of these people, it actually becomes a negative in their eyes.
I am under no illusion that Slifkin's mind will be changed. But for the average reader here, don't be impressed with his half sources and simplistic logic. When we realize that all of this is backed by a great zilzul in Torah and it's Giver, nothing he writes is to be taken seriously.
Noson Jesus. You would not have spoken such pure apikorsus before 2005. You got screwed over and because of that you completely changed your hashkafa. It's sad that an intelligent person like yourself is so weak in spirit. As you know I have stood up for what is right. That's not only in your case but I have stood up against rabbis who were krum in other matters. I was even expelled from the local vaad harabbonim because they couldn't stand hearing the true derech hatorah l was not afraid to say. The flack I took had zero effect on my emuna or hashkafa.
So you are dead wrong. Zechus hatorah is the reason Israel has not become a defunct state. My position is totally rational but I'm not going to explain why here.
The mistake you make is in thinking that zechus Hatorah comes specifically from the people who should be serving in the army, as opposed to all the other people who are learning Torah
"Noson Jesus"
המכנה את חברו... אין לו חלק לעולם הבא
Ephraim, you are not a chochom, quite the opposite. Everything I have said about Noson Slifkin, including comparing him to the Jesus character as described by Chazal, is clearly meant in the spirit of imploring him to do Teshuva.
RNS believes in Torah and preaches accordingly. He criticizes what he believes is lacking.You have your approach and he has his.Are you an Apikorus?!
There are boundaries to, "You have your approach and he has his." If Noson preached the exact same approach as he does now but with one added belief, that Jesus is the messiah son of god, would you say, "You have your approach and he has his"?
Perhaps you are not aware, but Chazal define an apikorus as:
אפיקורוס כגון מאן? ־ אמר רב יוסף: כגון הני דאמרי מאי אהנו לן רבנן? לדידהו קרו, לדידהו תנו.
Noson appears to subscribe to this "approach."
'Rabbanan' does not refer to everybody 'in learning'. It refers to rabbonim, leaders.
YOU ARE WRONG! It refers to the community of people who dedicate their lives to learning L'shma.
I hope there was a call up that all Yeshiva and Kollel students should immediately return to the Bais Medrash and not wait until Rosh Chodesh.
Indeed there was:
https://www.kikar.co.il/yeshiva-world/s26hh0
Fill up the coffee pots! Warm those chairs! Like they are really doing anything. 126 soldiers so far have paid the supreme price. They are cowered and shirkers.
@sender
Yeah, all that zechus hatorah didn’t deter Hamas from its genocidal butchery as is evidenced by all those useless zechusim throughout the years of holocaust.
All those thousands of yeshiva and kollel folks studying holy 4th century tort law didn’t count for a hill of beans, all those zechusim a worthless palaver of self delusion and pretext not to subject themselves to the dangers facing Israeli soldiers.
When levelheaded Jews see the idiocy spouted by Sender they make just one brucha every day — she’assani secular. And it’s one great reason that the majority of Jews are off the derech and want no association with chareidi/Orthodox society.
At another time, I'd argue with you. Now, I'd simply suggest you save your anger for the real enemy. Shalom, sister. In the truest meaning of the word.
Maybe it's low lives like you that cause the problems. Maybe if perverts like you didn't drop judiasm like a bomb before the holocaust Maybe then things would be better.. look into your own soul you sicko.
My comment is for you and no one else, so I'm editing it. It should still be in your email...
Everybody has the precise solution for the other guy. Everyone knows what other people are supposed to be doing.
Funny how the world works.
We were in a miniyan with my older children, and my wife was at home with our baby who was still sleeping.
We didn't hear anything inside, but by the end of Hallel someone entered the room and shouted אזעקה, but we understood הקפה, twice. Finally in the confusion someone got it and we went to the garage of the synagogue. Within 15 seconds we had a huge blast over our heads, it was the כיפת ברזל
After that every was sent to their security rooms, and we had 4 alarms all morning. We thought they were sending rockets to Jerusalem as it happened a few times in the last years, unaware of what was going on.
At Mincha people started saying Tehilim and many of our neighbours were leaving the ishuv to go to the army.
Just had to wait and try to rejoice until Shabbat and the Chag were out. Then, after Havdalah, we would usually take some time without phones and other stuff, but this time we turned on the phones immediately to the heartbreaking news. 100 killed and who knows how many kidnapped, plus thousands of rockets. It was beyond believe, only to have the number of murdered multiplied by seven just in hours. Now we start understanding the full extent of what happened, and I am terrified to think what we have ahead. I am certain of our military victory, but what we have lost is unfortunately lost.
We are bleeding, sad, upset and everything you want. We need to prepare for hard weeks ahead of us and do whatever we can for our country, our only country.
And please, let us let politics and futile discussions aside. The reason what this happen is that Hamas and Co are a cult of death, and did precisely that. All the rest we will discuss once we are done with them, the time will come to look for responsibility in our own government and military. But now we still have terrorists in our territory and victims who have not yet been burried. And perhaps most terrifying, over hundred of our people taken hostage in Gaza and thousands of our soldiers who are ready to give all they have for the sake of every Jew in the world. That is what matters now.
I'm no גדול הדור or נביא but it seems uncanny that a disaster that will inevitably unite the country, occurs after the most divisive period in the country in recent times
Notleast the disgraceful scenes בשעת נעילה
(קשה עלי פרידתכם, said by Hashem on שמיני עצרת, is explained by some to refer to פירוד between segments of Jewry)
May ה' send us ישועות ונחמות בקרוב
Are you victim blaming or did I miss something here?
Not victim blaming at all. Searching for meaning and hope in a seemingly hopeless situation.
Anyway, ever heard of יפשפש במעשיו
Such a terrible situation, it's unfathomable. Yes, you are right, יפשפש במעשיו.
If only secularists didn't harass mitpallilim the way they did, just days ago, ON YOM KIPPUR in Tel Aviv, with virulent hate.
If only Netanyahu didn't open his big mouth attacking Hashem publically, blaming Him for not protecting... despite how Hashem constantly protects...well look what happened now, and Netanyahu is caught off guard like a dumby not knowing what to do.
Hopefully if we take the lessons to heart Hashem WILL hear our prayers even more than if we just pray without recognizing the mistakes.
You mistranslated יפשפש במעשיו
See here:
https://archive.ph/4VwiB
"The strike was intended to hit Israel while it appeared distracted by internal political divisions over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government."
And here:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gantz-liberman-open-to-emergency-unity-government-but-demand-say-in-waging-war/
"Some observers have pointed to unprecedented societal divisions wrought by the government’s plans to overhaul the judiciary and attendant protests as having given Hamas the impression that Israel was weakened and ripe for attack."
Armchair nonsense. There's never a time when Israel isn't dealing with internal division, and never a time when its enemies aren't plotting to attack it. The fighting over judicial reform didn't prompt the attack, but it makes all the Hillel Halkins of the world, who forgot who our REAL enemies are, look like fools. [Edit - and I see now intelligence already shows this attack was planned more than a year ago, long before the protests.]
The only question right now is how massive the response. Most seem to feel it has to be overwhelming, nothing less than 50,000 dead. No sophisticates, no overthinking it, none of this brainiac "Oh, we can't do that" stupidity. Do it, and deal with condemnations later. When we take our own counsel, like bombing the reactor and the preemptive strike of '67, it works out. When we listen to others, like Oslo and the Gaza expulsion, this is what we get back. For God's sake, how long will Israel fail to learn from history. Turn Gaza into a parking lot, and do it now.
" Most seem to feel it has to be overwhelming, nothing less than 50,000 dead. "
We are getting close
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-02-29-2024-f9b5a62a80d8b83eac4946d3c85af58b
It's very early, but it appears that there was a 'קונספציה' on the Israeli side that Hamas couldn't/wouldn't breach the barrier and that שקט ייענה בשקט. But I don't have the stomach to delve into it right now. There will be plenty of time for recriminations and fallout later, at both the political and operational level.
Wow, it's the Bar Lev line, 50 years later, to the day.
"There will be plenty of time for recriminations and fallout later, at both the political and operational level. "
(Speculation warning!)
Maybe the "later" is a good thing. The sooner the international "community" pressures for a cease fire, the sooner the reckoning will come. Bibi will not survive the fallout; his only option for (temporary) political survival is to ignore the inevitable international pressure for a ceasefire and to not to abandon the war too prematurely as he has done in the past.
There have been large scale protests against the govt on a regular basis for 10 months. That is unprecedented.
Heads of government have been assassinated. Jews committed piguim against other Jews. Gush katif. We do have more extreme examples of division in the history of our country. The attack is unprecedented, the level of division isn't. The two don't correlate.
Hope your virus goes away...
In terms of percentage of populations, this is by far the worst terrorist attack in history. In terms of sheer numbers, it's probably 2nd to 9/11.
By now, far worse than 9/11.
Are you sure? More than 3,000?
Quick math. US population in 2001 was 285 million. Israel is currently just under 10.
Multiply 700 by 28.5, you get 19,950. So essentially, more than 6 times 9/11. Plus hostages.
See my original comment.
My bad, I misunderstood.
Huh? read my initial comment.
Noson, your response is senseless. I NEVER intimated that Zechus Hatorah is exclusively from any group. If a soldier in the heat of battle, is able to take a break and takes out a Mishne or a daf yomi from his pocket to learn, for sure he is contributing to Zechus Hatorah. You can have your personal opinion that all Bene Torah should serve in the army (and maybe even base it on Torah sources), but Gedolei Torah, who know a lot more than you or me have made it clear that they hold that one can dedicate himself to full time learning and, al pi Halacha, he is exempt from the army in accordance to the psak of the Rambam. I also have my opinion on some matters (totally based on Torah opinion) that differs with a lot of Gedolei Torah, but I understand and respect their opinion, although I disagree. That is, Rav Hirsch's Torah Im Derech Eretz. We know the Rambam agreed with that approach besides Rav Hirsch and many others, and it is the basic model on American Torah education (at least through highschool). I have grandchildren in Lakewood that are not following that approach, and I respect it. As for parnasa, I'm not worried, as we read in Ashre, Poseach es yadecha etc.
Recently I dovened in a very rich shul in Lakewood. I asked a fellow, "Do you know why this shul is so rich?" I answered, because the baalei baatim DIDN"T go to college! (They went into nursing homes, real estate and importing from the Far East after 5 or 10 years in kollel. Had they graduated with Batcheler's degrees they would have had a decent federal government job.)
Bottom Line, ALL people that learn Torah L'shma generate Zecus Hatorah. As I mentioned before, without the plethora of Torah Learning in E"Y by hundreds of thousands full time and part time learners, that is in the Mir, Hevron, Ponevez, Mercaz, Gush, Kerem B'Yavne, etc. the Medina would have collapsed decades ago.
"Gedolei Torah, who know a lot more than you or me have made it clear that they hold that one can dedicate himself to full time learning and, al pi Halacha, he is exempt from the army in accordance to the psak of the Rambam."
These are the same Gedolim who believe that Rambam was of the view that Chazal were infallible in science. They don't have a clue what Rambam actually held and they don't really want to know.
So can you tell us pshat in the Rambam by Shevu'as Heses? Or Tum'as Hatehom? How about Shomer shemasar leshomer?
Which Rambams can you tell us pshat in?
Noson, you are delusional. NOBODY thinks Chazal were infallible in science. There is proof, clear as day, that such a notion is ridiculous, and anybody who stated such a thing was not serious! But you must be a sucker to think they were serious. As a matter of fact, nobody thinks any one Tana or Amora was infallible in Halacha. The broad consensus of Chazal we follow (call it infallible if you wish) as practice is because that IS Rabbinic Judaism.
In any case the broad consensus of Gedolei Torah, one who know some scince, some who do not know much about science is that full time Torah learners perform a service to klal Yisroel that exempts them from compulsory military service.
I personally believe that if the Israeli government made a voluntary program during bein hazmanim, training bene Torah in the use of firearms and basic military weaponry (e.g. mortars, rpg, etc.), that 50-90% of them would go for it, and the Roshei Yeshiva would not say anything. Back in 1969 I was in Bais Hatalmud in Bayit Vegan and bein hazmanim we had a voluntary course for several days in the deployment and use of firefighting equipment. Most guys attended (Israelis and Americans).
"NOBODY thinks Chazal were infallible in science."
A lot of nobodies out there.
I wasn't talking about kids. I was talking about serious talmidei chochomim.
You owe R' Moshe Meiselman an apology.
From previous discussions with you, I know you have a history of lying, but for everybody else, Rabbi Meiselman writes explicitly that Chazal were not infallible in science (or anything else, for that matter).
Moshe Meiselman owes Slifkin and all "rational" Jews an apology. None the less, since his drumming Slifkin has gone off the bat. In any case, as I read Meiselman's book, it stared me in the face that Meiselman himself did not believe half of what he wrote.
"Having been bedridden for a week with a persistent virus, I was not in shul when the siren went on the morning of Shabbat/ Shemini Atzeret. My wife and I closed ourselves and our children in the Mamad (reinforced room) with absolutely no idea what was going on.
......
(At this point I had written a very long piece about a sensitive topic, triggered by something extremely offensive that I heard today. I’ve been advised that it might not be a good idea to share it right now, so I’ve removed it. Maybe I’ll share it another time.)"
Based on your timeline, it sounds like it was an immediate family member who set you off.
May the A-lmighty protect your daughter together with all other soldiers in Israel.
May the IDF, with the help of G-d, quickly free the people of Gaza from the Hamas regime, bring the captives home safely, provide comfort to the hundreds of bereaved families, send a quick and full recovery to the thousands of injured, and bring a long lasting peace to the residents of the South so never again will the need to run to bomb shelters in the night, and bring peace to all of עם ישרשאל.
R’ Slifkin, davening for the safety of your family along with acheinu kol beit yisrael.
Please keep us updated.
Rabbi, regarding you suggestion for mental health services I am in touch with the head of a large Jewish mental health org in the US who would like to offer services. please message me misaacson [at] gmail
My preliminary thoughts, FWIW:
1. Being Nosei B'ol, Gevald...! Davening! Being Marbeh Zechuyos!
2. Getting off the computer asap and doing that.
3. A great Israeli Rosh Yeshiva said about how the YK war came about, that it's explicit in Avos that among other things, Ivus Hadin causes war, and not long before the YK war a terrible Ivus Hadin had occurred with the implicit(?) support of the Israeli gov't . (IOW, he looked outwards. Did he also look inwards? I'm sure.)
4. Why are people busy with their SINGLE causer? What about zeh v'zeh garmu? What about Lo Nechtam G'zar Dinam Ela Al Hagezel by the Mabul, that there were multiple factors
5. Looking outward while looking inward is fine, and when done very properly, important.
https://www.sefaria.org/Rambam_on_Pirkei_Avot.1.17.9?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en
"And the fourth division [of speech] is the beloved, and that is speech in praise of intellectual virtues or dispositional virtues and in disgrace of both types of vice - to awaken the soul to the virtues with stories and songs, and to prevent the vices in these same ways. ... to disgrace the bad about their vices, so that their action and their memory be disgraced in the eyes of people and that they distance themselves from them and not act according to their practices."
6. An element in Bibi's Uman speech, and other of his public statements, (such as when French Jewry experienced terrorism and he invited them to Israel), is that thanks to the state, Israel is the safest place. With this, according to my conjecture, he opened the door for the Midas Hadin to settle accounts with us for our sins, and he be chastised.
7. Back to #1 & #2.
Uriah's Wife: Besides the fact you don't know what you are talking about, you don't belong on this blog.
@sender,
What exactly is it that I don’t know what I’m talking about? If you were honest, instead of just being dismissive, you’d buttress your position with a cogent response instead of simply saying that I be cancelled. That really doesn’t support your argument.
Please stay safe.
I do not want to cause unrelated debates, but what do you as a rationalist think your davening will achieve for the safety or success of israeli soldiers?
Rationalism still has God as part of the equation. That's a strange question
btw, can you share your thoughts on this situation going on? i'd love to hear your perspective. if you want you can email me at davidschulmannn@gmail.com
Sure.
In the last days I have been watching constantly al-jazeera arabic and israeli media.
In the last years, more and more arab countries have normalized their relationship with israel, fearing the shia iranian terrorism and threat. If you want more context on that, here: https://open.substack.com/pub/irrationalistmodoxism/p/do-we-misrepresent-our-opponents?r=2rw0fd&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=39871087
Hamas sees itself abandoned, so they started this surprise attack, utilizing the internal israeli divisions.
Hamas promised not to harm civilians (which for them includes only old people and children). All other israelis, since they are serving in the army, are military combatants and in hamas' view necessary targets, hence they shot these people on the rave party.
(There have been rumours on twitter about israeli women raped, but I haven't see any evidence. The story of 40 beheaded babies seems to be false, too and a picture of caged israeli children turned out to be an old picture of palestinian children).
Cuz Hamas goal with all these hostages is to get as many palestinians as possible out of prison. Last time israel released a 1000 palestinians for one captured soldier, imagine then now.
I think Hamas' strategy is wrong.
In Islamic Law, there is nothing legally wrong in killing any armed zionist in a state of war (whether woman or man, whether rabbi or layman and it doesn't have to be a soldier of the regular army tzahal, but even e.g. an armed settler like those in the west bank).
However, this indiscriminate killing and bombing is a war-crime, considering that many of the 1000 killed israelis are Arab Muslims (mostly the bedouins who live there in the south of israel) and who do not serve the army, rendering hamas' justification futile.
Non-Muslims are, in Islamic Law, in one of 4 possible categories. In three of these (dhimmi, mu'ahad, mustaman) it is prohibited to kill them, in one (harbi) only armed combatants can be killed (which could include women, old people and monks, with the condition that they are themselves armed and trying to kill you, but it is usually prohibited to kill them https://sunnah.com/muslim:1744b).
For references from classical Islamic jurists on war, see the book al-Badaai as-Sania from the jurist al-Kasani (12th century) https://shamela.ws/index.php/book/8183/1832 and the book al-Mughni from Ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi (13th century) https://shamela.ws/book/8463/4225 and the book Ahkam ahli dhimma by Ibn al-Qayyim (14th century).
Except violating Islamic Law, I see a second problem with hamas' attack. The zionist retaliation will be much more brutal. Hamas violated this instruction by the Prophet saws: https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2019/02/05/believers-not-seek-hardship/
Moving away from the strategy, the logic behind the attack itself is this: israel is built on zionism, the idea that jews must get an independent jewish state in zion i.e. palestine. But for such a state, one inevitably needs a majority jewish population which requires the ethnic cleansing or even genocide of the current majority population i.e. Arab muslims and Arab xtians. Some of them can stay (so called arab israelis) but most of them must go away.
Hence, for hamas, zionism is an irredemable ideology and its construct israel must be destroyed.
Emotionally I understand and even support this view. I have nothing against a jewish state in palestine per se, if there had been a realistic solution made by both sides without ethnic cleasing and personally I would even be ready to grant jews a specific place on the Temple mountain for davening.
But purely logically and legally speaking, I think that Hamas' attack was wrong.
Muslims know this too. Years ago, even before the saudi normalization with israel, the Saudi Grand Mufti Abdulaziz Aal Shaykh condemend Hamas: https://www.aljazeera.net/news/2017/11/15/%D9%81%D8%AA%D9%88%D9%89-%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%B2-%D8%A2%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%AA%D8%AB%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%B6
But the argument is always, that Palestinians have no other choice but to fight. I disagree with that assumption.
If you want to know what palestinians in my view should do instead, see: https://open.substack.com/pub/irrationalistmodoxism/p/do-we-misrepresent-our-opponents?r=2rw0fd&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=39986986
Rafael, can you please explain how the Hamas leaders calling for a "GLOBAL day of jihad" has anything to do with seeing all Israelis as threats, as this concerns all Jews in the world.
If you mean Khalid Mesha'ls speech (he is the chief of Hamas), then I already explained that here: https://open.substack.com/pub/irrationalistmodoxism/p/a-voice-from-the-frontlines?r=2rw0fd&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=41676782
Rafael, you present a reasoned argument to the Islamic position, but is it the "only" approach? I would like to hear how Shaikh Palazzi would respond. I had a long email exchange with him about 20 years ago and he appeared to me to be a great Islamic scholar such as yourself.
My personal, practical understanding is that Islamic scholarly theory plays little or no role in the Hamas guidebook. Its fighters are brainwashed or mesmerized robots that have been programmed to indiscriminately seek and kill their prey just as aggressive-natured snakes will do. In at least one instance, an Israeli couple attacked in one of the settlements, gave food, and told the attackers they are brothers, sons of Abraham, started singing together with the Hamas attackers and penetrated the mindless state of that squadron of Hamas attackers. The attackers kind of woke up from their stupor and became cognizant of the horrible action they were programmed to carry out and did not harm these people.
"My personal, practical understanding is that Islamic scholarly theory plays little or no role in the Hamas guidebook." I agree with you rabbi goldberg.
If you mean by "different approaches" a possible islamic legal argument for a recognition of israel, I think that palazzi is wrong for defending the current zionist entity.
As I said in other comments, in essence, we have nothing against a jewish state per se, provided that both sides agreed on realistic functioning states without ethnic cleansing.
God does affirm in the Qur'an that He gave the holy Land to the israelites. However, He also constantly points out that jews should convert to Islam and accept Muhammad saws as Gods Final Messenger,. Thats an important point that palazzi leaves out. Comparing israel to what the israelites got is a false equivalence, too.
Ismail al-Faruqi was a palestinian politologist. He used to be an arab nationalist and supremacist. However, he renounced that and made Islam his sole political, legal and ideological view. Besides the inevitable zionist ethnic cleansing and the theological differences between Islam and judaism, Faruqi identified a third problem with israel that palazzi did not consider. The zionist project and entity called israel is not religious anyway (a zionist who even disbelieves in the Torah cares even less about the Qur'an as a reason for the establishment of Israel). Its a secularist, nationalist (and at that time socialist) state, that Muslims could never accept.
Faruqi asked for the renouncing of arab nationalism, secularism and remnants of colonial law in these contemporary postcolonial artificial arab states that we have today (I think he would agree on the establishment of a unified Caliphate).
In the same token, he argued that israel must become a rabbinical medinat halakha and get rid of the socialist, secularist and democratic zionist baggage. In such a case, an Islamic state and a jewish state could continuously live in peace together in a confederation (whoch would mean a state similar to the shengen accord we have in europe). Such a jewish state, where jews follow jewish law, Muslims Sharia, xtians whatever they want, that would be acceptable. Cuz historically, thats how Caliphates worked: Muslims have their law, jews their and the only thing was that jews had to pay the jizya tax, which did not apply in times where the Caliphate could not military protect the jewish population. this was especially the case at border regions. If the siraelis set up their own army and protection, one might drop the jizya too.
I think this plan would be reasonable taking the current situation into account (at least from my Muslims and your jewish perpsective, a secularist israeli or secularist atheist arab,might be siffering a heart attack reading this)
But as long as the whole "oNly dEmocRacy iN tHe miDdle EasT" propaganda trope continues, israel is considered a foreign, colonialist and implanted element
I agree with the second half of your comment (if I agreed with the first half I wouldn't be Jewish) in theory, but as it is obvious, given the current situation we are way past such a possibility. We'd have to Brainwash both sides for many years.
as far as the only democracy thing you mention, I always thought it was Americans who came up with that at a point when most countries in the middle east were dominated to some level by dictators or terrorists. While some things may be different now, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon Libya, Jordan Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, all have this problem in their recent history.
Now if you mean that even Israel is not democratic because of Arabs lacking rights, which ones are you referring to? The ones living in Israel proper do, and the ones living in the West bank are not under Israel authority.
I mean, israel is an ethno state that needs ethnic cleansing and a discriminating immigration policy. Have you ever wondered why neo-nazis like richard spencer or nick fuentes praise israel explicity for that? I am a white european straight man and if I asked for similar things I would be branded a white supremacist (rightfully so) and you know the adl and souther poverty law center would warn everybody from me.
Kahane has written a lot about the irreconcilable differences betseen zionism and democracy. My point was, that even if israel were a true democracy, that would affirm it being a foreign, implanted and colonial state, cuz democracy is not an asian, african, australian, chinese or native-american or even eastern european phenomenon, but a western euoropean one. There were social and political circumstances in england beginning from the 13ht to the 19th century that gave birth to the democracy we today have (the german politologist dieter grosser wrote about that) and made it possible. But even the existence of these circumstances do not guarantee democracy (see german democracy that was replaced by the nazis through the votes of millions of germans). The Muslims world is united and defined by Islam and Shaira law, hence secularists and colonialists pushed for nationalism and tribalistic conflicts and established these artificial nation states. Add to that the lack of the particular circumstances, it is clear why democracy does not exist among arabs either.
Shulman here is handling most of your comments, but I want to know this: Hamas sees all Israelis between 18 and 67 as military targets. Is that also what the average civilian in Gaza believes? Even if not, if Israeli's were to apply the reverse logic, and look at Gaza they way they look at Israel, wouldn't that mean for every person in Gaza that Israeli's would look at as a threat?
My point is, if it is an equal 2 way struggle for survival, no side is necessarily wrong and can work with the same rules in an effort to annihilate each other as rules of war. I am not a fan of that, but otherwise this would be a double standard. It doesn't look like anything will change (unless they adopt your approach, something brought up in the 30's by Dr Jacob Dehan and was killed for it).
I hope I am not coming out sounding like I am advocating that, I am simply saying that if this logic is being used to identify the enemy it is either barbaric or right, not simply a wrong strategy or understanding the way you put it.
I do not know whether the average Gazan civilian thinks the same. I haven't seen any representative surveys on that. I do not know what the average israeli thinks, either. But certainly, the Hamas and Israeli political leadership do treat this as a 2 way struggle for survival. For netanyahu, this disgrace is also a struggle for his political survival.
I don't know what the average Gazan thinks for sure, but in 2006 Hamas got 45% of the vote, seemingly supporting Hamas positions. Fatah also got 41%, I don't think that party thinks any different than it's founder, Yassar Arafat. Could be they don't have much of a choice and they are voting them in for other benefits that they prioritize, I'd be curious to hear if that is the case.
As far as the last comment, I agree that almost all politicians think about one thing only, and that is themselves. However, being that the best thing for their selfish state is satisfying their constituents thereby earning their popularity, that is a good motivation to do the will of the people. If most people didn't agree with him he wouldn't be doing it.
What do you mean by "this disgrace"? the conflict in general, the atrocities, or the way the country's divided?
He was completely taken by surprise, unprepared and bamboozled. The army arrived 4 hours after the shootings begun. Some even called for netanyahus resignation or talk about conspiracy. Instead, bibi was busy throuhgout the year with pushing a divisive and unpopular judicial reform that could conveniently help him and other convicted ministers. Remember when his moronic drunken son yair in front of a brothel was recorded talking about his fathers' dubious deals with oligarchs? One might dismiss yairs words as drunken juvenile nonsense, but netanyahu immediately then tried to pass a law banning recordings like that. Nobody denies that israel needs a judicial reform, but this one goes to the other extreme and its a part of netanyahus self-serving pattern.
at least some the rapings have been confirmed by videos which i won't go into detail here, but just one example of many, one video was shown on cnn, and they spoke with the mother of the girl in the video, shani louk, and got permission to air it to show the atrocities - which makes it sound pretty real... we are always cautious when watching these kinds of things that perhaps its not a valid source, but there were definitely some confirmed.
the beheading is hearsay right now and we may never know if true, but there were definitely atrocities that were confirmed very clearly (as things go, meaning through solid journalism).
many israeli's btw don't support this whole occupation thing as a principle because of the conflicts it's causing. many prominent rabbis were against the establishment of a state because it isn't necessarily the appropriate hishtadlus (human efforts) to be the safe haven the Zionists claimed it would be. but we have no problem living there and even appreciate having what we believe to be our homeland back after all this time.
for the most part things have become so radicalized that at this point a two state solution is simply impossible, which is what happens when we stop being able to trust each other to make a treaty, and this goes both ways of course. but at this point with Hamas and Hezbollah and others, with Iran backing them, it really is an them or them situation and no one knows how to get out of this mess:(
as in all politics, we never really know who to trust and we all have our biases, and i hope this can be resolved without more pain
i also understand that many Palestinians do not back Hamas and we have nothing against them (you)
as a side, it seems unfair to say that any random citizen of israel shoudld b fair game as long as they are armed, because they are only armed for protection. because they live close that is a crime?
and the next q is, what is israel's response supposed to be now, but to fight back?
If the crimes are true I condemn them. You will notice that Muslims do not have a problem with condemning crimes. Most of the time we are just calling out fake news, exaggerated or decontextualized reports and especially double standards. In other words, just as we are condemning crimes, it would be nice if e.g. the chief rabbinate were to condemn the thousands of murdered palestinian women and children over the years.
Instead I saw orthodox rabbis making analogies to amalek (and you know better than me the halakha regarding their fate). Palestinians themsleves do not want a genocide, neither the xtian nor the Muslim ones.
You can imagine that most if not all of these Hamas fighters have dead relatives murdered by zionists and that this fueled their hatred.
P. S. Read my statement again. I said "in a state of war", I am not saying jews in israel can't own weapon against crime.
i think most of the rabbis comparing to amalek are mostly comparing hamas to them, not palestinians in general. (also they usually don't mean it in a halachic sense, just like slifkin has been (wrongly) compared to amalek) but many of them don't know that there is a difference. i myself don't know what the classic Muslim take is on what they want in life. are Hamas just a true religious group standing for true Muslim values, and the 'tame' Muslims are less religious? or are there different takes on how to read the Qur'an? what si going on there?
we, for example, want our religion to become clear to the world and we are pained that other people turn to other ideas of God with different rules and laws and desires. including the Muslim religion (we won't debate this now, just sharing our perspective). we await the day when things become clear and Muslims, xtians, atheists and all alike recognize the Jewish God as supreme (including believers recognizing Him more constantly, directly and to a more powerful degree). but we don't do anything about it except perfect ourselves and our relationship with Him. we believe that if we would perfect ourselves in our relationship with Him, He will figure out the rest. so Jews in general have never been a threat to any government (until this occupation).
but what do Muslims believe? what do authentic, really religious Muslims believe? is it their place to make themselves on top? to force the word to recognize their truth? if yes, isn't Hamas doing the right thing in your eyes? (in the sense that killing infidels is like our killing amalek)
Of course we would like Islam to be ruling religion of the world. A liberal wishes for a liberal world order, a communist for a communist one, american american one, russian russian one and chinese chinese one.
هُوَ الَّذِيْٓ اَرْسَلَ رَسُوْلَهٗ بِالْهُدٰى وَدِيْنِ الْحَقِّ لِيُظْهِرَهٗ عَلَى الدِّيْنِ كُلِّهٖۙ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْمُشْرِكُوْنَ
He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse to it.
Qur'an 61:9
When you believe that your values, which lead to what you call perfection, are morally correct and even from a universal God, Who is the Creator of the entire cosmos, then of course you would wish that Law to be ruling in the world. It doesn't mean that all individuals have to abandon their own beliefs. Their communities have their autonomies and rules and the individual will not be forced to abandon his beliefs, simply because true belief necessitate ikhlas (sincerity). But the ruling supreme law and measure for everything is of course Gods true will. Hence I mentioned Ibn Qayyims book on the laws regarding non Muslim in the Caliphate.
The reason why Muslims scholars criticise Hamas is because they are implementing this goal in the wrong way. They are not criticising the goal itself.
There is a principle in Islamic Law called الحكم على الشيء فرع عن تصوره which basically means in order to judge a thing you need a full understanding of its reality.
As I explained, Hamas didn't have that full understanding. They classified anybody living on the other side of the fence between the age of 18-67 as a reservist and hence a necessary military target. This is wrong and does injustice to the demographic diversity of that part of israel.
Hamas also calculated, based on previous experience, that tzahal will not bomb gaza indiscrimnately because of the hostages. This assumption, though reasonable, turned out to be false, too
I would say the same problem goes for rabbis who are paskening against all Palestinians collectively.
But as a jew, you do expect all goyim to one day bow in front of the jewish God (and of course you do). So there comes forcing beliefs from your side too. And always remember that the seven nations who previously inhabited Kanaan tasted that coercion too in bloody ways, just like the 70% of jews will, who are chilonim and mechalelim shabbat and not eating kosher (and you know the halakha regarding such crimes).
Let's ask the greatest rationalist, shall we?
He answers:
אבל אם לא יזעקו ולא יריעו אלא יאמרו דבר זה ממנהג העולם אירע לנו וצרה זו נקרה נקרית. הרי זו דרך אכזריות וגורמת להם להדבק במעשיהם הרעים. ותוסיף הצרה צרות אחרות.
No one said that our religious and moral actions are not part of the equation.Noone excluded prayer and Tshuva from the equation. At the same time natural events and consequences are also part of the equation.Human actions and effort are crucial but not enough to overcome Jewish religious failures. We pray for G-d's chesed and His Rachmanut.
Amen!
Note that well: the person is called an אכזר, a "cruel" person, not a רשע or a שוטה. I heard the reason in the name of R. Ruderman: bc such a person is insensible and unfeeling, and this is where the roots of cruelty lie. An inability to empathize or feel the suffering of others.
Slifkins rationalism, as he explains it, does not exclude prayer or other Torah concepts. He is a faithful Torah believing Jew.His position rejects mysticism as a regular answer to religious questions and understanding of important religious events. Of course payer is basic to our faith and in no way does his rationalism reject it.You are confusing his rationalism that rejects religion and spiritual actions.
Rafael, praying is just something to say that will offend almost no1. At a time like this, we can still use meaningless (to us) phrases. Stalin opened all the shuttered churches during ww2.
Sure, read my reply to david shulman
Wow didn't know it "was probably the largest number of Jews murdered in a single day since the Holocaust". Is that total Jews or just civilians?
Does it matter?
It means that is the biggest single attack in terms of victims and hostages since the Shoah. Terror does not distinguish between civilians and military, and even Jew and gentile. I saw there were some people visiting or working in Israel non Jews, who got caught in the middle.
That's what these animals call resistance, undermining the true and glorious resistance movements in history, none of which went around killing unarmed people and children in their homes, and kidnapping elderly women and broadcasting.
That's why I know we will win, they are miserable cowards.