28 Comments
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Ernest Katz's avatar

Quite an important legacy your father left you and all of us. May his memory always bring blessings, and may you continue to bring critically important rational discussions on topics critical to our Jewish and Israeli worlds.

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Aharon Z's avatar

הבן מזכה את האב… וגם האב מזכה את הבן.

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michael stern's avatar

Wishing you a belated חיים ארוכים.

As you may remember from our past communicatons and I will sum up: I remember your father O'H from the Vine Street Shul where his and our family davened for years. He was also briefly (a couple of years at most) ? a master (teacher) at Manchester Grammar School - a leading UK elitist schol where he had the good fortune not to teach me.

In all honesty I had very little to do with him directly due to age differences and that in shul he sat across the aisle and a number of rows away from us. I remember him as a quiet person who judging by the results of his activities went his own way and got on with things without creating a fuss or bother.

I have zero doubt that he would be proud of you and your achievements and would have been disappointed had you behaved otherwise and for example caved in to the "hamon am" .

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Srully Epstein's avatar

I'm not convinced that it's a lack of civil values; rather it's a redefining of civil values.

The issue of Army service, working for a living, etc. is an issue of Teams. Their Team does not do those things. Their Team stands for other things. Within their Team's framework, there are civil values, such as tzedakah and gemilas chasadim, just not the same ones as your (or my) Team's civil values.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

Redefining things that way does not get around the basic problem that their society insists on benefiting and taking from others but does not give.

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Liora Jacob's avatar

When one’s society’s values fit the definition of parasitism literally, there is a fundamental problem with those values.

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A. Nuran's avatar

Destroying the nation for personal gain is never a civic virtue. It is a disease, a plague.

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YL's avatar

Maybe, but there seems to be a divide in terms of what chesed is - is it "just" collecting for kollelilim on purim (chareidi) or is it contributing to national welfare (dati l'umi)

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Peter Gimpel's avatar

BS"D

But at some point, the two teams should be able to meet and "discuss the game over a friendly beer." Then maybe they could form various subgroups in which they could collaborate.

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Building Worlds's avatar

Chessed starts at home, is the often repeated refrain. Which makes sense, family does come first.

In the Chareidi world, they have a similar mindset, help your own - before you help society at large or your country.

Hence, Chareidim do have thousands of "civic organizations" however their focus is always their own community before other communities. It does make sense.

Life is a balance, one has juggle those closer to themselves vs the balance of helping society at large.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

That's generally true, but it breaks down when people outside of your circles are making massive sacrifices for you.

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Building Worlds's avatar

Fascinatingly, Chabad has the opposite problem. They generally focus on helping other Jews, while sacrificing the physical and religious quality of life for their own families.

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Sara Schwartz's avatar

May his neshama have an aliyah.

יהי זכרו ברוך.

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Mgorin's avatar

There is a generation gap, sadly. But there is always hope. I’m always sad to see the concept of Israel is ignored here in the USA. In regards to another commenter here about the chessed of the Chareidi community, a friend mentioned that Satmar here was giving out $7000 per family. Idk where the money comes from, not my business, but I did point out that if you have a family of 5 kids and 2 adults and you’re learning, making Pesach will use most if not all of that (food, disposables, clothes and so on). That money in a Satmar community is going to be spent at Satmar stores. The stores give the profits back to the organizations. Making it a cycle.

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Liora Jacob's avatar

If that subsidy comes from generous wealthy benefactors who have worked hard and decide to use their fortune for this purpose, that is a legitimate choice. If it comes from scamming the welfare system or stealing from taxpayers in some other way, it is not.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

It's a legitimate choice, but it's very harmful to raise a generation to think that they do not need to be self-supportive.

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WILLIAM PRICE's avatar

Natan, thank you for sharing these memories of your father, Professor Slifkin. One thing I can tell you at my advanced age, having lost both of my parents earlier in this life, is that now YOU are a parent and your children look to you, as you did to your father. Your parents would be honored that you treasure their memory, but I'm certain they also want you to be happy in your life. Praise be to Hashem.

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Noah's avatar

This is a legacy of the old, Western European charedism which we should strive to rebuild in our generation and the next.

עד ביאת הגואל

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Michael Sedley's avatar

Wishing you a long life.

I am sure that your father is be extremely proud of the values you are imparting on your children

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Nachum's avatar

That picture alone speaks volumes. I can elaborate if anyone's vaguely interested.

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Eran's avatar

Where's your wife in all of this? Interesting that she's not mentioned at all in your transformation and the education of your children.

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Sara Schwartz's avatar

Mrs. Slifkin is a QUEEN! She's absolutely an equal partner in everything her husband does.

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Nachum's avatar

Marry a YU person and see what happens. :-)

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Joseph's avatar

דרך ארץ קדמה לתורה - Derech eretz preceded, and was replaced by Torah.

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Gili Houpt's avatar

MDEGA - Make Derech Eretz Great Again

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Peter Gimpel's avatar

BS"D

But there is a saying among Chassidim that you can't be Chassid unless you have Derech Eretz.

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Mark's avatar

I believe that every single commentator rejects that interpretation. And for good reason - one of the versions of the midrash states גדולה דרך ארץ שקדמה לתורה - that is to say, it is still great, not that it was once great.

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Joseph's avatar

I was using the expression to jokingly refer to the phenomenon the author mentions, which is that sometimes one generation has derech eretz and the next has Torah instead. I wasn’t referring to the idea of the midrash itself regarding derech eretz having preceded Matan Torah historically.

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