Yet more proof that the religion of the Haredim is not Judaism. We separated from the Samaritans 2400 years ago. We separated from the Christians 1900 years ago. We separated from the Karaites 1000 years ago. It is time to separate from the Haredim.
"Dirty laundry"? Sunshine is the best detergent. The disgraceful behavior, selfishness, parasitism, and, yes, chilul hashem of the Charedim must be brought to light in every forum possible, Jewish and non-Jewish, Israeli and non-Israeli.
My nephew Religious Zionist is now being called up for the 4th time. Two Lebanon. One Gaza. Now Syria. And some as we know have sat and done nothing. Parasites.
It is NOT LONG before the cholonim call out to their young people not to go to the army, using this logic If they don't go, we are also not going. I they don't share in the burden we are not sharing in the burden.
As the police cannot pick up some and not the others - What exactly does Israel do?
I asked this question to many charedim and tried to inform them, when this happens you and your family will also die, remember the Nova Festival. how far is that from Bnei Brak Then they become very frum and turn to God. Hashem will help!! Asking what happened in WWII, there were many full packed yeshivas, and we and our children were still choked to death in chambers of gas. Then they become "Maminim bnei Maminim" (believers) and use the argument "If Hashem wants you to die, you will will die, my friend you cannot do anything about it. I tell them very good - so why did you leave and not stay in Europe using this bright logic.
I don't think that LinkedIn is the right forum for posting such a video - and every one of my adult sons is a combat soldier. This is for two reasons - first, a more general one - LinkedIn is supposed to be a business connection forum, though I'll admit that you are far from alone in using it as just another social media platform. Second, I do happen to agree that it is not appropriate to put something like this, which is likely to be misunderstood by those who don't have knowledge of the religious community and all its subgroupings, and deliberately distorted by those with an agenda, in the general arena where context and background are lacking. This type of posting is simply not helpful to your cause when posted in such a forum.
To be honest, I'm not sure that their content belongs on LinkedIn either - at least conceptually. That being said, given what LinkedIn has become, there's a need for "Hasbara" from an Israeli perspective to offset all the anti-Israel propaganda spouted in that forum by a combination of malignant actors and useful idiots. This is necessary as world opinion is another front where Israel must fight for its continued existence.
The issue of drafting Chareidim and their disgusting behavior and attitude, though, is not one where the attitudes of the rest of the world are critical - so putting it up-front before them on LinkedIn does not serve a purpose. There's a time and place for everything - and LinkedIn is not the place for this.
Well, Yoseph Haddad is the CEO of "Together Vouch for Each Other", which is an Israel advocacy group. He can use LinkedIn to coordinate with other such groups. He can use it in a professional capacity.
Also, on such a diverse platform as LinkedIn, I see that anti-Israel people take notice of the Haredi draft problem. They construe it as, "Look at these Zionists! They fight even their fellow Jews, and won't let them learn Torah!" They don't see it from the Religious Zionist perspective: "Why should we have to work, study, and fight, while the Haredim refuse to share the burden?"
Like I said before - LinkedIn has become something far different than it was originally designed to be, so that battle seems to be lost. Your second point, on how the Hareidi draft evasion is already discussed there, is more germane - but a video like the one in question, presented where all but a small subgroup have limited knowledge and even less understanding of the issue, does little to advance the goal of R' Slifkin.
Just give them back the strict halachik definition of chillul hashem which every Lakewooder will throw back at you when you tell them about all the chillul Hashem that yeshivaland causes in general.
Don't understand why the entire argument is about "Chillel Hashem" . Should you post it or Should you not post it?
We are falling into the trap every charedi uses when facing the music.
They disparage and publicly insult talmedi Chahcumem who do not fall in line with them. Then if you call out their Rosh Yeshivas - everything breaks loose, you are "insulting the great ones" and it "says" here and there you will burn in hell forever.
If you call out any shinanigans in the charedi communities, how they hoodwink other people or the rest of society. They scream chillel hashem , never ever telling the charedi thief - You are making a chillel hashem.
They take advantage of society, call every other ones names, hit and beat people and they claim they are Tzadikim who are perfect. However, anything goes against them, you are the Shagatz,
This is all part of them taking advantage of society and then deflecting any criticism. Why is it so hard to understand?
I generally agree with your posts, including much of what you wrote here. However, I don’t believe this was the most appropriate way to commemorate Yom HaZikaron. As a former chayal who has lost close friends, I feel that this day should be dedicated to honoring those who have made the ultimate sacrifice—not focusing on those who choose not to serve.
Watching this guy dealing with the charedi bums, he will A'H make a good Chayal. I give him credit. Hope he gets trained well, comes back and puts a few of these bums in the hospital. They really belong in jail, but a hospital with one arm and one foot lifted up in a sling will still be satisfactory
Well the way these boy (chayas) acted - soldiers should get involved and give them the good beating they deserve that their parents never gave them. Laying in a hospital bed, they would have all the time to think of their actions
Dear Natan, Linkedin is definitely NOT a place for activism. Linkedin is work and career related. And should forever stay that way. I do not understand why you chose to use it in this inappropriate way. Were you specifically looking for anger and mayhem?
In theory that’s what it is, in practice it’s not. I’ve seen many pictures of Yeshivish/Chassidishe with their newborns while they are still in the hospital. With a caption of “new member to the team”.
The ship has long sailed about what LinkedIn should and should not be.
Unfortunately, I must agree. I've been with LinkedIn for over 15 years (probably much longer) and it has changed dramatically over time. It used to be work/career related but it's more and more turning into a variation of Facebook. I wouldn't have posted there either.
For the record, the same Muslim colleague I mentioned as arranging for us to stand for the Yom HaShoah siren together arranged the same for the Yom HaZikaron siren yesterday. (Alas, I was working from home and went down to the nearest square.)
"I tell thee, churlish priest, A ministering angel shall my sister be, When thou liest howling." -Shakespeare.
The airing dirty laundry bit is coming from the fact that Judaism has a deep honor/shame culture aspect to it. The concern is not "Am I doing the wrong thing?" It is "what will other people think about me?" Whether they agree with this boy's decision to enlist and his father's support is not the primary concern. The problem is that the video makes them look bad. It's also why the lashon hara the argument gets trotted out so much. It's because when you expose malfeasance the primary issue is never that this person did something wrong, the concern is this makes the person look bad.
To those who are troubled by the use of LinkedIn for such purposes...
I could be entirely misled about this. Perhaps the analogy is less than completely valid. But as it seems to me...
If your house had just caught on fire (בר מינן), and someone was using your favorite antique vase to bring water to extinguish the fire and save your home and all the people in it, I don't think you would complain that that vase was meant only for beauty, not for extinguishing fires.
It feels like you are going all in Kamtza style. Considering both sides here carry major biases, I hope you ran it by a serious talmid chacham before this latest stunt
The instinct to "shoot the messenger" is a strong one. The video is very sad, but I kind of wonder whether the father and son couldn't have found a more clandestine way to do what they needed to do. Not that they should have to! But you have to know your audience, right?
As I said, "not that they should have to." He should absolutely be able to go proudly to register, or whatever he was doing. I'm just addressing the choice they made in light of the context. I presume the young man knows what kind of yeshiva he is learning in. He chose to go there. So I don't know how this went down, but if his dad said, "I'm going to pick you up in the middle of shiur and tell everyone we're going to register for the army," maybe the young man could have said, "Dad, I don't think it will be good if we do it that way." Just seems like someone did not have "sechel," as they say. Situational awareness is also pretty important for soldiers, as I understand it. You need the foresight to be able to say "this action is going to put us in bad situation" before you actually get into it.
Yet more proof that the religion of the Haredim is not Judaism. We separated from the Samaritans 2400 years ago. We separated from the Christians 1900 years ago. We separated from the Karaites 1000 years ago. It is time to separate from the Haredim.
HOW RIGHT YOU ARE...... People do not understand this.
How long do you think Israel will last if Charedim and Rebbes with Rosh yeshivas would run the country.
A - First get everyone else to work and HALF their money should go support the other half as it is a great zichus to support Torah.
B - We don't need a strong army as Torah will protect us.
C - they will force the rest to live only their brand of Judaism
We will have to fight another day for our country, as we did this 1948, and unfortunately we will have to do it again.
If we somehow can get rid of them before then it will save us a lot of trouble.
I keep asking - - if you dont like Zionism, or Israel as a government - go live somewhere else and leave the country to those who love it.
How long do you think Israel will last if Charedim and Rebbes with Rosh yeshivas would run the country.
"ר שבעה דברים צוה ר"ע את רבי יהושע בנו בני אל תשב בגובהה של עיר ותשנה ואל תדור בעיר שראשיה תלמידי חכמים
דטרוד בגרסיה ולא במילי דציבורא
Source?
If I may butt in - Pesachim 112a with Rashi
Amazing source for the sugya of daas Torah
The Samaritans and Christians separated from us. We never really separated from the Karaites.
These are reasonable points.
"Dirty laundry"? Sunshine is the best detergent. The disgraceful behavior, selfishness, parasitism, and, yes, chilul hashem of the Charedim must be brought to light in every forum possible, Jewish and non-Jewish, Israeli and non-Israeli.
My nephew Religious Zionist is now being called up for the 4th time. Two Lebanon. One Gaza. Now Syria. And some as we know have sat and done nothing. Parasites.
Remember this: You heard it here first.....
It is NOT LONG before the cholonim call out to their young people not to go to the army, using this logic If they don't go, we are also not going. I they don't share in the burden we are not sharing in the burden.
As the police cannot pick up some and not the others - What exactly does Israel do?
I asked this question to many charedim and tried to inform them, when this happens you and your family will also die, remember the Nova Festival. how far is that from Bnei Brak Then they become very frum and turn to God. Hashem will help!! Asking what happened in WWII, there were many full packed yeshivas, and we and our children were still choked to death in chambers of gas. Then they become "Maminim bnei Maminim" (believers) and use the argument "If Hashem wants you to die, you will will die, my friend you cannot do anything about it. I tell them very good - so why did you leave and not stay in Europe using this bright logic.
I don't think that LinkedIn is the right forum for posting such a video - and every one of my adult sons is a combat soldier. This is for two reasons - first, a more general one - LinkedIn is supposed to be a business connection forum, though I'll admit that you are far from alone in using it as just another social media platform. Second, I do happen to agree that it is not appropriate to put something like this, which is likely to be misunderstood by those who don't have knowledge of the religious community and all its subgroupings, and deliberately distorted by those with an agenda, in the general arena where context and background are lacking. This type of posting is simply not helpful to your cause when posted in such a forum.
There are Israel advocacy people on LinkedIn, such as Yousef Haddad and Einat Wilf. I read their posts regularly.
But Israel advocacy is their profession. That might be the difference.
To be honest, I'm not sure that their content belongs on LinkedIn either - at least conceptually. That being said, given what LinkedIn has become, there's a need for "Hasbara" from an Israeli perspective to offset all the anti-Israel propaganda spouted in that forum by a combination of malignant actors and useful idiots. This is necessary as world opinion is another front where Israel must fight for its continued existence.
The issue of drafting Chareidim and their disgusting behavior and attitude, though, is not one where the attitudes of the rest of the world are critical - so putting it up-front before them on LinkedIn does not serve a purpose. There's a time and place for everything - and LinkedIn is not the place for this.
Well, Yoseph Haddad is the CEO of "Together Vouch for Each Other", which is an Israel advocacy group. He can use LinkedIn to coordinate with other such groups. He can use it in a professional capacity.
Also, on such a diverse platform as LinkedIn, I see that anti-Israel people take notice of the Haredi draft problem. They construe it as, "Look at these Zionists! They fight even their fellow Jews, and won't let them learn Torah!" They don't see it from the Religious Zionist perspective: "Why should we have to work, study, and fight, while the Haredim refuse to share the burden?"
Like I said before - LinkedIn has become something far different than it was originally designed to be, so that battle seems to be lost. Your second point, on how the Hareidi draft evasion is already discussed there, is more germane - but a video like the one in question, presented where all but a small subgroup have limited knowledge and even less understanding of the issue, does little to advance the goal of R' Slifkin.
Just give them back the strict halachik definition of chillul hashem which every Lakewooder will throw back at you when you tell them about all the chillul Hashem that yeshivaland causes in general.
Don't understand why the entire argument is about "Chillel Hashem" . Should you post it or Should you not post it?
We are falling into the trap every charedi uses when facing the music.
They disparage and publicly insult talmedi Chahcumem who do not fall in line with them. Then if you call out their Rosh Yeshivas - everything breaks loose, you are "insulting the great ones" and it "says" here and there you will burn in hell forever.
If you call out any shinanigans in the charedi communities, how they hoodwink other people or the rest of society. They scream chillel hashem , never ever telling the charedi thief - You are making a chillel hashem.
They take advantage of society, call every other ones names, hit and beat people and they claim they are Tzadikim who are perfect. However, anything goes against them, you are the Shagatz,
This is all part of them taking advantage of society and then deflecting any criticism. Why is it so hard to understand?
R' Slifkin,
I generally agree with your posts, including much of what you wrote here. However, I don’t believe this was the most appropriate way to commemorate Yom HaZikaron. As a former chayal who has lost close friends, I feel that this day should be dedicated to honoring those who have made the ultimate sacrifice—not focusing on those who choose not to serve.
Watching this guy dealing with the charedi bums, he will A'H make a good Chayal. I give him credit. Hope he gets trained well, comes back and puts a few of these bums in the hospital. They really belong in jail, but a hospital with one arm and one foot lifted up in a sling will still be satisfactory
Well, the army doesn't deal with civilians. That's the police.
Well the way these boy (chayas) acted - soldiers should get involved and give them the good beating they deserve that their parents never gave them. Laying in a hospital bed, they would have all the time to think of their actions
"my interlocutor smoothly transitioned to the exact opposite position, arguing that you can only have an army in which everyone is Torah-observant. "
"Charedim want there to be an army with hundreds of thousands of people who make sacrifices for them..."
...and that all of them must be Charedim. Until such time, it's forbidden for Charedim to be in the army.
An "argument" made by some right here.
Dear Natan, Linkedin is definitely NOT a place for activism. Linkedin is work and career related. And should forever stay that way. I do not understand why you chose to use it in this inappropriate way. Were you specifically looking for anger and mayhem?
In theory that’s what it is, in practice it’s not. I’ve seen many pictures of Yeshivish/Chassidishe with their newborns while they are still in the hospital. With a caption of “new member to the team”.
The ship has long sailed about what LinkedIn should and should not be.
Unfortunately, I must agree. I've been with LinkedIn for over 15 years (probably much longer) and it has changed dramatically over time. It used to be work/career related but it's more and more turning into a variation of Facebook. I wouldn't have posted there either.
Is tis a discussion what the linkedin platform is?
I guess not everyone is smart enough o understand what Rabbi Slifkin is trying to point out. Okay.
This is an emergency!
For the record, the same Muslim colleague I mentioned as arranging for us to stand for the Yom HaShoah siren together arranged the same for the Yom HaZikaron siren yesterday. (Alas, I was working from home and went down to the nearest square.)
"I tell thee, churlish priest, A ministering angel shall my sister be, When thou liest howling." -Shakespeare.
What the Lubavitcher Rebbe thinks. When Gedolim were Gedolim.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJDFEWLCi5f/?igsh=YjZnOHo2OTlib2lt
The airing dirty laundry bit is coming from the fact that Judaism has a deep honor/shame culture aspect to it. The concern is not "Am I doing the wrong thing?" It is "what will other people think about me?" Whether they agree with this boy's decision to enlist and his father's support is not the primary concern. The problem is that the video makes them look bad. It's also why the lashon hara the argument gets trotted out so much. It's because when you expose malfeasance the primary issue is never that this person did something wrong, the concern is this makes the person look bad.
To those who are troubled by the use of LinkedIn for such purposes...
I could be entirely misled about this. Perhaps the analogy is less than completely valid. But as it seems to me...
If your house had just caught on fire (בר מינן), and someone was using your favorite antique vase to bring water to extinguish the fire and save your home and all the people in it, I don't think you would complain that that vase was meant only for beauty, not for extinguishing fires.
It feels like you are going all in Kamtza style. Considering both sides here carry major biases, I hope you ran it by a serious talmid chacham before this latest stunt
Yes - he ran it by me and I agreed to him posting it. Hope you got your answer, bright one
😂
lol thanks
The instinct to "shoot the messenger" is a strong one. The video is very sad, but I kind of wonder whether the father and son couldn't have found a more clandestine way to do what they needed to do. Not that they should have to! But you have to know your audience, right?
Oh now you have to hide, and lay low, should you want to go to the army. Is this like sneaking into an Adult theatre?
As I said, "not that they should have to." He should absolutely be able to go proudly to register, or whatever he was doing. I'm just addressing the choice they made in light of the context. I presume the young man knows what kind of yeshiva he is learning in. He chose to go there. So I don't know how this went down, but if his dad said, "I'm going to pick you up in the middle of shiur and tell everyone we're going to register for the army," maybe the young man could have said, "Dad, I don't think it will be good if we do it that way." Just seems like someone did not have "sechel," as they say. Situational awareness is also pretty important for soldiers, as I understand it. You need the foresight to be able to say "this action is going to put us in bad situation" before you actually get into it.