In the article, Landau says “Don’t relax a single one of your spiritual principles. That is the real key to success.". Yet he admits to cheating the govt for welfare payments in his younger days and shows no signs of having done teshuva for it or paying the govt back. The article itself ask no questions about the extent to which the business itself adheres to the halachot of choshen mishpat, only that it gives a huge amount to tzedaka and Landau has refused to do deals at times when melacha is forbidden. If he is to be a real role model for his community and the wider chareidi world, let's hear how about how he upholds the highest ethical principles in the actual running of his business and holds by as many chumrot in business halacha as he does in kashrut, Shabbat, shmirat enayim etc. Or are those not the values of Mishpacha magazine?
>"“I’m familiar with the numbers. They are astronomical sums that help turn the wheels of the Israeli economy. Anyone who doesn’t recognize this huge contribution is a rasha and a kafui tov. They have managed to persuade you — the chareidim in Eretz Yisrael — that you ‘don’t contribute’ and somehow you just go along with it."
The OP rightly points out the fatal flaws in this popular charedi talking-point.
But it's also worth focusing more specifically on this rhetorical line: "Anyone who doesn’t recognize this huge contribution is a rasha and a kafui tov." It's quite ironic for a Satmar chossid to be making accusations of " not recognizing huge contributions" and כפיית טוב. The Satmar Rov himself was saved from likely death in Auschwitz by a Zionist (Kastner); something which is extremely awkward for them, and is never recognized. And of course, the interviewee himself (like charedim in general) never "recognizes the huge contribution" of the Israeli gov and the general Israeli public that funds the charedi community. So his critique is highly hypocritical
Great piece. Definitely highly ironic to have an "inspirational" rags-to-riches story, where the community he identifies with actively implements lots of policies that perpetuate poverty.
Very unfortunate that anyone takes morally bankrupt and parasitic ideologies like his seriously
This is exactly what upsets me so much about your attitude. Of course your criticisms are correct. And you didn't even follow up on his Satmar anti-zionist beliefs after a brief reference early. But how can you choose to highlight what's wrong instead of what's right? Imagine if Charedi society followed his advice and stopped taking from the government, of being independent and accepting responsibility for their own lives. Would that not be a giant, welcome first step? Why isn't what's wrong secondary in your post? It's evident that you will trash every story that comes out of Charedi society until there is as headline that says "charedim universally adopt every single one of Natan Slifkin's beliefs on a dime and do instant and perfect teshuva from their horrifying prior existence." I hate the part that in his head this is a way to separate from the state but I see through it. That won't work. The character it would build, the responsibility of would impose, the value of independence, would revolutionize so much of what's wrong and make real lasting change possible. If you had a worthwhile attitude, you'd embrace the good that's here first and secondarily comment on the parts you wish were in line with what's really needed and hope it leads there.
The issue that the OP is taking with the Mishpacha interview is that the interviewee wants the charedi community to continue to be a completely isolated and insular minority community like his own community of Satmar: gaming the system and parasitically taking benefits (such as welfare and protection of the army) where it's useful for them, a few (like him) being lucky and making good money, and everyone in the community contributing to broader society as little as possible. There's nothing positive here
I read the article. The first part is all his biography. The second part is the one that OP discusses. There, he simply asserts the standard Satmar idea of not taking money from the Israeli gov and being "independent". Which of course means relying on the gov for everything (defense, infrastructure, utilities, medical care, etc), and simply not taking direct welfare stipends. While contributing back little to nothing in terms of taxes and defense.
And his claim at the end about fundraising from the US bridging the financial gap is patently false, and has been debunked many times, as the OP points out.
Nothing new or interesting, other than the fact that he's being given a platform by Mishpacha
You read it with a jaundiced eye, then. He experienced and is advocating a revolutionary change that would affect all of Charedi society. He learned personally that "independence breeds strength and dependence breeds weakness," as the OP quoted. That's the chidush that is the diametric opposite of much of the charedi world. They are followers to the core and expect to be taken care of, physically and spiritually. This message is that you're all weak. There's so much growth available when you achieve and value independence, which I believe could spread over to thinking independently also, which could chip away at the blind gedolim worship.
The average Charedi reader will likely not notice all the things you point to as which they heard before. The kicker of the article, and the whole angle that I found, was that we sell ourselves short when we just take what we're given and this has defined, and therefore profoundly weakened, Charedi society all around.
Yes, I hate the part where he wants to use this to further divorce from the medina. But there's little to no chance he's going to Satmarize everyone. His ethic and commitment to changing society around it is new and valuable and the main point. Appreciate that and build on it. Don't chop him down along with everyone else who tries to take positive but imperfect steps. It's like a child who does one thing right among other problems and you jump and reinforce the good and ignore the bad. You don't berate him for the bad while also barely acknowledging the good you can work with.
Au contraire, *you're* reading it far too optimistically. He says nothing revolutionary. Here's another key paragraph from the original Mishpacha interview:
>"Then he turns serious. “I think that yes, Gerrer chassidus can definitely support itself, and the same is true for every community in Eretz Yisrael. Even if not right away, the potential certainly exists. If the gvirim in Gur push themselves beyond what they think is possible, and the balabatim decide that they’re becoming gvirim in order to support the mosdos, and there forms this internal competition among the affluent to be the most generous giver — then the whole culture will change, and not only in Gur. I have full faith that the more independent the Torah institutions in Eretz Yisrael will become, the more they will grow and achieve."
He's simply saying the standard Satmar idea: that charedi institutions in Israel shouldn't take money from the gov, and should be "independent". That's nothing revolutionary, that's just the standard Satmar shita re Israeli gov for the last 70 years.
Of course, we can all agree that all things being equal, charedim not taking money from the gov would be great. But in reality, in the context of Satmar, it would functionally mean being even more disconnected from Israeli society
You don't see that on the Litvish world being a balebos let alone a gvir is not praised as an option, that the only acceptable option is to learn all day or just be a nebach yokel with a store or whatever? Imagine if the leadership accepted this and decided we have to raise a society of balebatim and gvirim. Would that not be revolutionary and work in a completely different way outside the Satmar context? Would it not ultimately open them up to society, create bridges with other Jews, make them less other? Satmar's anti-Zionism had an outsize and tragic influence but it was overall limited. This new ethic would change everything.
You can read it your way with an עין רעה if you want to. I think that always hurts us as a people. I want to see people read this and view developments with an עין טובה and try to build with whatever material are available instead of just kvetching about what's wrong until you get exactly what you want.
In the article, Landau says “Don’t relax a single one of your spiritual principles. That is the real key to success.". Yet he admits to cheating the govt for welfare payments in his younger days and shows no signs of having done teshuva for it or paying the govt back. The article itself ask no questions about the extent to which the business itself adheres to the halachot of choshen mishpat, only that it gives a huge amount to tzedaka and Landau has refused to do deals at times when melacha is forbidden. If he is to be a real role model for his community and the wider chareidi world, let's hear how about how he upholds the highest ethical principles in the actual running of his business and holds by as many chumrot in business halacha as he does in kashrut, Shabbat, shmirat enayim etc. Or are those not the values of Mishpacha magazine?
From the Mishpacha interview:
>"“I’m familiar with the numbers. They are astronomical sums that help turn the wheels of the Israeli economy. Anyone who doesn’t recognize this huge contribution is a rasha and a kafui tov. They have managed to persuade you — the chareidim in Eretz Yisrael — that you ‘don’t contribute’ and somehow you just go along with it."
The OP rightly points out the fatal flaws in this popular charedi talking-point.
But it's also worth focusing more specifically on this rhetorical line: "Anyone who doesn’t recognize this huge contribution is a rasha and a kafui tov." It's quite ironic for a Satmar chossid to be making accusations of " not recognizing huge contributions" and כפיית טוב. The Satmar Rov himself was saved from likely death in Auschwitz by a Zionist (Kastner); something which is extremely awkward for them, and is never recognized. And of course, the interviewee himself (like charedim in general) never "recognizes the huge contribution" of the Israeli gov and the general Israeli public that funds the charedi community. So his critique is highly hypocritical
Great piece. Definitely highly ironic to have an "inspirational" rags-to-riches story, where the community he identifies with actively implements lots of policies that perpetuate poverty.
Very unfortunate that anyone takes morally bankrupt and parasitic ideologies like his seriously
Interesting post. I never heard of Yoeli Landau; and I never read Mishpacha magazine.
This is exactly what upsets me so much about your attitude. Of course your criticisms are correct. And you didn't even follow up on his Satmar anti-zionist beliefs after a brief reference early. But how can you choose to highlight what's wrong instead of what's right? Imagine if Charedi society followed his advice and stopped taking from the government, of being independent and accepting responsibility for their own lives. Would that not be a giant, welcome first step? Why isn't what's wrong secondary in your post? It's evident that you will trash every story that comes out of Charedi society until there is as headline that says "charedim universally adopt every single one of Natan Slifkin's beliefs on a dime and do instant and perfect teshuva from their horrifying prior existence." I hate the part that in his head this is a way to separate from the state but I see through it. That won't work. The character it would build, the responsibility of would impose, the value of independence, would revolutionize so much of what's wrong and make real lasting change possible. If you had a worthwhile attitude, you'd embrace the good that's here first and secondarily comment on the parts you wish were in line with what's really needed and hope it leads there.
The issue that the OP is taking with the Mishpacha interview is that the interviewee wants the charedi community to continue to be a completely isolated and insular minority community like his own community of Satmar: gaming the system and parasitically taking benefits (such as welfare and protection of the army) where it's useful for them, a few (like him) being lucky and making good money, and everyone in the community contributing to broader society as little as possible. There's nothing positive here
You obviously did not read the article.
I read the article. The first part is all his biography. The second part is the one that OP discusses. There, he simply asserts the standard Satmar idea of not taking money from the Israeli gov and being "independent". Which of course means relying on the gov for everything (defense, infrastructure, utilities, medical care, etc), and simply not taking direct welfare stipends. While contributing back little to nothing in terms of taxes and defense.
And his claim at the end about fundraising from the US bridging the financial gap is patently false, and has been debunked many times, as the OP points out.
Nothing new or interesting, other than the fact that he's being given a platform by Mishpacha
You read it with a jaundiced eye, then. He experienced and is advocating a revolutionary change that would affect all of Charedi society. He learned personally that "independence breeds strength and dependence breeds weakness," as the OP quoted. That's the chidush that is the diametric opposite of much of the charedi world. They are followers to the core and expect to be taken care of, physically and spiritually. This message is that you're all weak. There's so much growth available when you achieve and value independence, which I believe could spread over to thinking independently also, which could chip away at the blind gedolim worship.
The average Charedi reader will likely not notice all the things you point to as which they heard before. The kicker of the article, and the whole angle that I found, was that we sell ourselves short when we just take what we're given and this has defined, and therefore profoundly weakened, Charedi society all around.
Yes, I hate the part where he wants to use this to further divorce from the medina. But there's little to no chance he's going to Satmarize everyone. His ethic and commitment to changing society around it is new and valuable and the main point. Appreciate that and build on it. Don't chop him down along with everyone else who tries to take positive but imperfect steps. It's like a child who does one thing right among other problems and you jump and reinforce the good and ignore the bad. You don't berate him for the bad while also barely acknowledging the good you can work with.
Au contraire, *you're* reading it far too optimistically. He says nothing revolutionary. Here's another key paragraph from the original Mishpacha interview:
>"Then he turns serious. “I think that yes, Gerrer chassidus can definitely support itself, and the same is true for every community in Eretz Yisrael. Even if not right away, the potential certainly exists. If the gvirim in Gur push themselves beyond what they think is possible, and the balabatim decide that they’re becoming gvirim in order to support the mosdos, and there forms this internal competition among the affluent to be the most generous giver — then the whole culture will change, and not only in Gur. I have full faith that the more independent the Torah institutions in Eretz Yisrael will become, the more they will grow and achieve."
He's simply saying the standard Satmar idea: that charedi institutions in Israel shouldn't take money from the gov, and should be "independent". That's nothing revolutionary, that's just the standard Satmar shita re Israeli gov for the last 70 years.
Of course, we can all agree that all things being equal, charedim not taking money from the gov would be great. But in reality, in the context of Satmar, it would functionally mean being even more disconnected from Israeli society
You don't see that on the Litvish world being a balebos let alone a gvir is not praised as an option, that the only acceptable option is to learn all day or just be a nebach yokel with a store or whatever? Imagine if the leadership accepted this and decided we have to raise a society of balebatim and gvirim. Would that not be revolutionary and work in a completely different way outside the Satmar context? Would it not ultimately open them up to society, create bridges with other Jews, make them less other? Satmar's anti-Zionism had an outsize and tragic influence but it was overall limited. This new ethic would change everything.
You can read it your way with an עין רעה if you want to. I think that always hurts us as a people. I want to see people read this and view developments with an עין טובה and try to build with whatever material are available instead of just kvetching about what's wrong until you get exactly what you want.
Oy.
איך בין גאַנץ זיכער אַז ער איז מײַן קרוב