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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

You sound like this situation has never been faced before and noone ever had to address similar situation.

In 1948, when the Islamonazis conquered Eretz Yisrael, they successfully expelled every Jew. There is a reason why all of Eretz Yisrael is Judenrein (except for a tiny sliver of the Southwest and a few small enclaves in south-central Eretz Yisrael).

In more recent times, the Social Justice Left successfully moved over 50% of the Syrian Arab population - more than 11 million Syrian Arabs were expelled and and internally displaced in Northern Eretz Yisrael - in less than 2 years. Notice that there was not a peep from the world because that was the moral thing to do. Israel has been more widely condemned and attacked for the Jenin operation this week than for what Arab Syria did over the past decade.

If the Israeli population had the will and any morality, they would arrange for a massive popular march on Jerusalem that could expel and kill off the Arab nationalist population in the Ir Atikah and the left-wing slums in a few hours. A social justice program similar to what Arab Palestine and Arab Syria did in 1948 (and Israel did in 2005) can be enacted quickly - there's more than enough population growth going on in Israel to quickly repopulate Northern Eretz Yisrael with the natives.

And the concept of "lone wolf" is ridiculous. It takes a society to raise a suicide bomber.

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Joe Berry's avatar

I think we must distinguish between Israeli Arabs and Arabs living in PA occupied lands. I live in northern Israel and deal with many Israeli Arabs. By and large, they just want to make a living, enjoy life like everyone else. Yes, there are exceptions (like the terrorist just now) but that is a real exception. Whenever I see a Corvette, Maserati or any other fancy car, I know it belongs to an Arab. They're doing very well, have beautiful homes (better than mine) go to all the universities in the north (Technion, Haifa U, etc, etc).

On the other hand, Arabs in south, who are under the rule of Hamas or the PA get such a distorted history of Israel that, no wonder, they want to get rid of us. They think there has been a Palestine for thousands of years, that there have been no Jews in Israel until 1948, etc., etc. The problem is that we are doing virtually nothing to stop this indoctrination and historical revisionism. Only through educating these Arabs do we have a chance at making peace with them. Not to say that it's easy to educate them. The UN doesn't care; the EU doesn't care and it's almost impossible for us to do it alone.

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David Ohsie's avatar

There is another big difference. The former are citizens of a democracy with relatively equal rights while the latter are living under a military occupation. Don’t confuse symptoms with causes.

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iWe's avatar

If you change the incentives, you change the outcomes.

When Saddam stopped financing suicide bombers, they stopped. When the risk/reward formula is changed, so are the outcomes.

There are lots of ways to improve things, from encouraging gun ownership and concealed carry, to changing the incentives for the families and friends of evil-doers. Even lone wolfs need encouragement.

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DANIEL WOHLGELERNTER, MD's avatar

The “lone wolf” concept is a dangerous myth. There is always organizational support and training.

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David Ohsie's avatar

There is no need for organizational support to shoot people with a gun until you are killed. This happens all the time in the US.

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DANIEL WOHLGELERNTER, MD's avatar

This murderer had advanced weapons skills. He received training.

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David Ohsie's avatar

You can get advanced training in pretty much anything with YouTube. I don’t know what this guy had, but the fact is that anyone can attack a bunch of people with a knife or gun.

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Avi Grossman's avatar

"You can get advanced training in pretty much anything with YouTube."

Utter nonsense.

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Just Curious's avatar

“Utter nonsense.”

No, it isn’t.

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Avi Grossman's avatar

and yet more utter nonsense. i didn't think anything could outdo that first howler.

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Just Curious's avatar

“There is always organizational support and training.”

No, there isn’t.

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Moshe's avatar

One solution that always works is Teshuva.

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Mikhail Olivson's avatar

Was reading a relatively balanced article...until I hit these two things: "such a promising sign to see Mansour Abbas and his Ra’am party join the previous government..." and "...it was truly disappointing to see them condemn the very necessary IDF raid on Jenin. But on the other hand, they also condemned Friday night’s attack."

For a scholar whose very work is about rationalism and reality this is an incredibly naive take. And if the Rav honestly thinks their "condemnation" has any meaning, I have a slightly used bridge near my house that I can get the Rav a good deal on.

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David Ohsie's avatar

Israel is a democracy. If Raam loses votes then they lose power. So yes, those statements are significant because is the Raam voters don’t agree they can go elsewhere.

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Mikhail Olivson's avatar

Ok, and they will go Hadash/Balad/Meretz. And there won't be a difference.

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David Ohsie's avatar

It makes a difference to Raam. They care about their own party. So if they say something publicly, it has significance to them. If they thought that their voters would all just abandon them, then they would not say it.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

https://twitter.com/neveragainlive1/status/1619658349800460288

Here's a video of the conquerors in a Zionist-financed hospital, celebrating the ritual slaughter of Jews and humiliating a frum victim. Is it so difficult to kill these people? Is it so difficult to kill their Hamoula and their villages?

Here's a post by a typical Meretz person: https://twitter.com/sjabulhawa/status/1619512617042853888

You act like this is a complicated issue. Doesn't seem like the Left has any difficulty identifying their goals and successfully enacting them.

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Building Worlds's avatar

Surprised that you don't mention incentivized voluntary population transfer as a solution?

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

Er, because it isn't.

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Building Worlds's avatar

There is certainly precedent for this i.e. the American Indians...

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

The Jews of Gaza in 2005 . . .

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Just Curious's avatar

“There is certainly precedent for this i.e. the American Indians...”

Yes, look how well that worked out for them…

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Ash's avatar

It worked out great for the Americans!

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Eli's avatar

Where oh where is The Hat? Someone tell him this post is free. Getting stale without him. Everyone here seems to be under the same boring assumption that the Arabs are at fault in this conflict.

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Paul Fein's avatar

Did mean to say that the partition was good. Just was replying to Rabbi Slifkin remark that would be the largest population transfer since WW 2. It was before my time so I don’t know the worlds reaction but I agree Israel would be condemned much stronger than Britain or India

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Jordan's avatar

Is there any evidence that bulldozing the home of a terrorist's family after an attack actually prevents other terrorist attacks? Or is it just something that seems like "the right thing to do"?

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

Prevents revenge killings against the family (and other price tag attacks). Like when the State of Palestine "arrested" the leadership of the Lion Cubs in Shechem/Neopolis and Owl 's Perch in Ganim and took them to safehouses.

The house demolitions are primarily to protect the suicide bomber's Hamoula.

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Paul Fein's avatar

In1948 India was decided into a Hindu state and moslem state. There wasn’t forced separation but many moved. Moshe Faglin(and others) advocated for paid insentives to leave for Arabs who do not want to live as loyal citizens in a Jewish state

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Jordan's avatar

The partition of India was brutally violent and not a process to be emulated. There indeed may not have been "forced separation" but those who stayed behind in the "wrong" country were beaten, raped, or mutilated.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

What happened to the Jews who remained in Arab Syria and Arab Palestine in 1948, after the Zionists lost the war?

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David Ohsie's avatar

2 million people died in the Indian Partition.

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David Ohsie's avatar

Maybe avoid radicalizing the Palestinian citizens of Israel by continuing by continuing to pander to the right wing with items like the Nation-State law and the inclusion of Kahanists in the government? The most dangerous thing that could happen in Israel would be the radicalization of the Arab population. There is no way to erect barriers to citizens and the alternative is ethnic cleansing.

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Avi Grossman's avatar

1. They're already radical. 2. I don't think many Ishmaelites are sitting around and thinking, "hey maybe we should stop murdering Jews. It might radicalize them."

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David Ohsie's avatar

So then why are there not constant terrorist attacks from inside Israel and why bother with the walls fences and border crossings from Gaza and tbe Wear Bank. There are already millions of radicalized terrorists inside Israel with rights to to everywhere. And yes the PA does cooperate with Israel to stop terror attacks. But the Palestinian citizens is Israel have free reign to go anywhere in Israel and in fact are not murdering Jews.

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Avi Grossman's avatar

They try all the time. And thank God many times they are thwarted.

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David Ohsie's avatar

Really? Are there checkpoints all over Israel on this side of the Green line checking cars with Israeli plates? I’m here now and I haven’t noticed them.

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Avi Grossman's avatar

because you don't hang out in ishmaelite neighborhoods. perhaps, if you would spend more time here and speak to people in the know, you would realize how ridiculous the situation is here. it is a miracle that more does not happen.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

I live here. And I am under no illusions about the existence of many Israeli Arabs who would love to see Israel destroyed. However, there are also many, many Israeli Arabs who are not remotely interested in that. You should hang out more in different parts of the country.

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David Ohsie's avatar

OK so there are no checkpoints and searches but instead miracles? I wonder why those miracles don’t work for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

How is the Nation-State law "right wing" and how does it radicalize the Arab nationalists living in Israel?

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

This is a very strange argument. Pterodactyl Fossil is speaking about Arab nationalists and David Ohsie is speaking about Arabs who are not Arab nationalists. Why have an argument when you're talking about different things?

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David Ohsie's avatar

Actually, I'm talking about people unwilling to resort to political and terrorist violence regardless of their views. All the people responding here would be Arab Nationalists of some form if they were Arab.

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David Ohsie's avatar

It helps radicalize all non-Jewish citizens because it says that the state is for Hebrew speaking Jews. It is saying: he this is not your country, so don’t bother having loyalty. Because it is largely symbolic, it is not as bad as differential treatment of Jews and Arabs, but it also means that there was not need to enact it. An own goal.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

Loyalty?

The Arab nationalists and Leftists sole loyalty is to the government of Arab Palestine. That's the only flag they wave - and they wave it proudly!

Friday night after Meretz's people shot up a shul *every* Leftist and Arab nationalist in Eretz Yisrael celebrated. You can watch online the videos of the fireworks and Jew-killing parties from Yerushalayim to Damascus to Tel Aviv.

Arab nationalists living in Eretz Yisrael should be treated *precisely* the way that Zionists are treated by the Islamic government of Gaza.

The whole point of the law was to move a tiny tiny tiny tiny step toward self-respect. The pushback just goes to show how degraded and debased the Yahood have become under the iron boot of Quranic inhumanity.

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David Ohsie's avatar

I didn’t realize that you were an admirer of Hamas.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

There is a lot that the Zionists can learn from the Muqawama about how to behave toward one's enemy.

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Don Coyote's avatar

David, often when others goof the spelling to make reading comprehension impossible, it's easy to just skip the comment. But yours are edifying and a pity not to be understood. Please double check. I appreciate it.

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David Ohsie's avatar

You mean "not" instead of "no". For some reason I brain always flips those two words when I am typing.

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Shy Guy's avatar

The title of Kahane's book was "They Must Go." כהנא צדק.

https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1619451740256104448

Citizenship and its benefits must immediately be taken away from all Israeli Arabs. War must be declared on the Muslim terrorist entities of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, the goal being total surrender of the general population and the annihilation of every last terrorist and terrorist-wannabe throughout.

Long overdue. איפוק זה לא כח.

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Koillel nick's avatar

Forget even discussing the morality of this.

Israel would not survive this kahanists nonsense. Israel would be isolated, boycotted, and the economy would be in shambles. One of the things we can learn from Russia's invasion of Ukraine is that a country without a strong economy is unlikely to survive. Israel's economy is equally as important as it's physical defence.

It's easy to accuse people of being leftists and insist on ignoring them and going all in on some radical plan. But there are many leftists Jews in Israel and outside that are very critical to Israels safety and stability. They serve in the army, they run major corporations and employ people. Leftist Jews in america fund hospitals and give political cover for Israeli defence moves. Don't ignore the Chuck Schumers or the Michael Bloombergs of the world. The likelihood that these people will swallow a kahanists idea is very low.

And this is all without discuss the morality of this plan.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

"Israel would be isolated, boycotted, and the economy would be in shambles."

Oh, no! What a terrible outcome!

Isolated - you mean that it would have to build tall walls all around the country to defend its citizens from casual and systemic violence by their neighbors? You mean there would be an unprecedented (and unmatched in its success) isolation program that would prevent Israel from having any substantive trade in its geographic region? You mean the Zionists' children would have to serve years in the army & reserves to defend their country from constant suicide bombers and military adventurism by the most powerful States on earth? You mean Shuls around the world would need to be turned into armed camps to defend Yidden from Arab Palestine's violence? You mean the European Holocaust Remembrance Day would be marked each year by the ritual slaughter of Yidden on their way home from shul?

What a terrible outcome! We would never want that to happen! Whatever successful plan is in place should be continued to avoid such an unthinkable and terrible outcome of "isolation"!

Boycotted and the economy would be in shambles - you mean unlike in the United States where Jews on average make around 200K per capita, folks in Israel would have 75% less per capita GDP? And a significant portion of the Jewish economy in Eretz Yisrael would be dedicated to military defense? And there would a successful economic boycott (and secondary boycott) against anyone who even trades with someone remotely connected to the Jewish community in Eretz Yisrael?

Phew! Glad Israel's pursuing such successful policies that avoids those outcomes - keep it coming! That must be why Israelis are so loved around the world!

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Koillel nick's avatar

I'm not referring to small time botlycotts. I'm referring to sanctions from EU and USA. In the western world, economic privileges are for free democratic societies. Israel has joined that world and has seen significant beniefits. Acting out in a kahanists matter would destroy that well built economy.

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David Ohsie's avatar

Heil Kahane. Let's goose-step towards an ethnically pure society.

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Shy Guy's avatar

Boo hoo.

I don't see anything "enlightening" about your interest in the Jewish State's destruction by toleration the intolerant. You're only evil's hero.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

And you think that the Jewish State would survive your plan? You're the exact type of person that I'm describing in the post with a ludicrous idea that you haven't even begun to think through.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

Is the Jewish State surviving under current conditions?

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Shy Guy's avatar

Like a lobster in a pot of cold water on top of a lit fire.

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Pterodactyl Fossil's avatar

The Islamonazis and the Left seem to think they are winning. They certainly behave like successful conquerors. And you will never hear a Leftist bellyache about how it would be "impractical" or "unrealistic" to kill every Yahood in Eretz Yisrael.

No Mosque in the world needs security and no innocent Moslem in Eretz Yisrael has ever had so much as a fingernail touched by the Zionists.

By contrast, 50% of Zionists need to spend years in the army to unsuccessfully defend their country from the conquerors. And Shuls around the world are armed camps to protect themselves from Meretz's soldiers.

If you call that "surviving", I'd hate to see what it looks like when the Zionists lose!

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Shy Guy's avatar

Then they'll first come for you and me. I'm no long interested in joining the sheep. Good luck with that!

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

I'm curious, did you serve in the IDF?

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Shy Guy's avatar

Yes, so did and do all of our sons. Wrong tree.

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User's avatar
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Jan 29, 2023
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David Staum's avatar

Sure, implant them with microchips. Or just make them wear a yellow moon & star sewn on to their clothes. Maybe put them in camps. Wait, that sounds familiar...

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Mikhail Olivson's avatar

Yeah, I keep forgetting that part of history about Jews in Germany killing people, blowing up buses, committing acts of terror. Wait, that never happened.

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Just Curious's avatar

Leaving aside for a moment the rest of the… interesting things you are saying, are you seriously suggesting forcibly implanting microchips in human beings like animals?

Can you really be unaware of how utterly insane that sounds?

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User's avatar
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Jan 29, 2023
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Just Curious's avatar

What an… intensely odd email.

Why are you posting it as a comment here?

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David Ohsie's avatar

Comment spam.

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מכרכר בכל עוז's avatar

Love it! This guy is such an egotistical, self-aggrandizing racist bigot (and a narcissistic one at that!), he puts others I know to shame! You hear that doc? Sorry, you're out of business!

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