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BANana's avatar

Lol, I love the way a secularist who just a few days ago agreed to someone that Chazal innovated their own religion and nowadays we all have to return to "ancient Judaism", now has the chutzpa to make arguments from from cherry-picked pshatim in Chazal. We all know your real intentions.

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BANana's avatar

Folks, this post is YET ANOTHER proof that we need mass Kollel! I was waiting for someone to point out the obvious absurdity in trying to apply this chiddush in a gemara as practical halacha, yet no one has. So here goes:

First of all, the Machlokes R' Yishmael and Rashbi is not a Halachic one. It appears in the context of a aggadic passage and the halachic codifiers do not bring it down.

But more importantly, the Chassam Sofer is qualifying the machlokes between R' Yishmael and R' Shimon bar Yochai by saying that R' Yishmael only holds that one should work for a living in Eretz Yisroel, because of the mitzva of Yishuv Eretz Yisroel, but in Chutz La'aretz he agrees to R' Shimon bar Yochai. The assumption without this Chassam Sofer is that R' Yishmael applies even in Chutz La'aretz. Yet still, despite the gemara bringing support to R' Yishmael, the Rama rules based on the Tashbetz that it is permitted to take money for learning. Why is this? Because, as the Tashbetz explains, although it is preferable for one to be self-sufficient, Chazal ruled that it is permitted to and even an obligation to support Torah scholars, in order to promote Torah study.

So despite the assumption that we should preferably behave like R' Yishmael, kollel is still permitted. All this does is qualify R' Yishmael opinion to merely applying to Eretz Yisrael and not Chutz l'aretz!

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