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David Silberman's avatar

Just read or re-read Job . It makes the argument we know nothing how God works to reward or punish.

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Joe Berry's avatar

Up in the north where we live there are probably 100 or more hyraxes that surround our yeshuv. Unfortunately, many carry a disease that is quite harmful to humans. They also like to eat the gardens of many of our residents. I'm possibly the only person here who thinks they are cute.

It was a beautiful posting. Well said.

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Isha Yiras Hashem's avatar

Curious which disease

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Isha Yiras Hashem's avatar

I like this! Are they similar to rabbits?

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Ash's avatar

I guess you weren't around for the great Hyrax/Rabbit shafan debates. They are not.

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Isha Yiras Hashem's avatar

Well thanks for teaching me, since I didn't know.

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Irwin Rubin's avatar

At this time, articles lke this one are what we need. Thank you Rabbi!

Yours,

Irwin (Yitzchak) Rubin

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Eli B's avatar

"Hamas .... are making some crucial mistakes.... they have .... caused Israel to unite in understanding that Hamas ..... cannot be tolerated."

Yes, this is lovely.... And it's also truly heartwarming to see how most sectors of Israel have united in understanding we are, ultimately, all one people. The Achdut is truly heartwarming.

But... Wouldnt it be EVEN better if Israel would also unite in understanding:

- that the catastrophic failure of Israel's much vaunted intelligence dispels the reliance on Kochi VeOtzem Yodi and demonstrates crystal clear how indeed we are so reliant on Hashem alone,

- that the losses were suffered primarily by secular Jews, and that some secular Jews made a shocking Chilul Hashem on the holiest part of the holiest day of the year?

A public Atzeres Teshuva and Tefiloh, in the heart of Tel Aviv, the site of that chilul hashem, including all sectors of Israeli Jewry UNITED in spirituality, would be perhaps be even more meaningful than any new political understanding of the nature of Hamas?

NB, Apologies if this post offends, I am striving to find meaningufl ways of building upon these tragic events

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

How wonderful to be part of a community in which you and your loved ones never need to risk your lives for Am Yisrael, everyone else always has to do it for you, and you also get to blame them for their own deaths. And no doubt you're also shocked and appalled when people resent charedim.

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Eli B's avatar

Natan. I am frum, open minded, ex-Yeshivish, NOT Charedi. I daven in heavily Charedi shuls (due to my locale), but I make sure to remind the Shatz to always say Tehillim after Davening for the Chayalim, and i was upset when the Rabbi in some doesn't.. I am very supporitve of the Chayalim and extremrely grateful for their Mesirus Guf Vonefesh.

However.

What i wrote has NOTHING to do with the Chayalim v Charedim argument, and i have zero idea why you are resorting to beating this tired old drum again. Please dont deflect.

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Uriah’s Wife's avatar

@EB,

Well, what does your cockeyed reasoning validate? That reliance on Hashem is a miserable endeavor almost guaranteed to fail if you consider all the horrors visited on Yidden through the last two millennia — the churban of bayit rishon and shaini, all the pogroms, inquisitions, massacres. and of course the Holocaust. Dependence on Hashem to protect from cruel evil is a joke. When it comes to God’s sanctuary from evil, you must recognize that When Hashem doesn’t kill you completely, it doesn’t make you stronger, it means he will try again to finish the job. Let’s hope he doesn’t succeed this time.

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Uriah’s Wife's avatar

How dare I for what? Criticize you for your hashkafic misinterpretation and corruption of Hashem’s imperatives ? When you start screaming Na zi, you’ve already lost the argument. As for hating me, you’re right up there with the bloodthirsty Muslims who’ll kill you just for drawing a picture of their prophet.

But since you brought up hate, here is why Hashem might harbor ill will towards you.

Jeremiah 6-20

לָמָּה-זֶּה לִי לְבוֹנָה כ

מִשְּׁבָא תָבוֹא, וְקָנֶה הַטּוֹב מֵאֶרֶץ מֶרְחָק; עֹלוֹתֵיכֶם לֹא לְרָצוֹן, וְזִבְחֵיכֶם לֹא-עָרְבוּ לִי. 20 To what purpose is to Me the frankincense that cometh from Sheba, and the sweet cane, from a far country? Your burnt-offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices pleasing unto Me.

Isaiah 1, 11-15

לָמָּה-לִּי רֹב-זִבְחֵיכֶם יֹאמַר יְהוָה, שָׂבַעְתִּי עֹלוֹת אֵילִים וְחֵלֶב מְרִיאִים; וְדַם פָּרִים וּכְבָשִׂים וְעַתּוּדִים, לֹא חָפָצְתִּי. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith the LORD; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.

יב כִּי תָבֹאוּ, לֵרָאוֹת פָּנָי--מִי-בִקֵּשׁ זֹאת מִיֶּדְכֶם, רְמֹס חֲצֵרָי. 12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample My courts?

יג לֹא תוֹסִיפוּ, הָבִיא מִנְחַת-שָׁוְא--קְטֹרֶת תּוֹעֵבָה הִיא, לִי; חֹדֶשׁ וְשַׁבָּת קְרֹא מִקְרָא, לֹא-אוּכַל אָוֶן וַעֲצָרָה. 13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations--I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.

יד חָדְשֵׁיכֶם וּמוֹעֲדֵיכֶם שָׂנְאָה נַפְשִׁי, הָיוּ עָלַי לָטֹרַח; נִלְאֵיתִי, נְשֹׂא. 14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am weary to bear them.

טו וּבְפָרִשְׂכֶם כַּפֵּיכֶם, אַעְלִים עֵינַי מִכֶּם--גַּם כִּי-תַרְבּוּ תְפִלָּה, אֵינֶנִּי שֹׁמֵעַ: יְדֵיכֶם, דָּמִים מָלֵאוּ. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

טז רַחֲצוּ, הִזַּכּוּ--הָסִירוּ רֹעַ מַעַלְלֵיכֶם, מִנֶּגֶד עֵינָי: חִדְלוּ, הָרֵעַ. 16 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil;

Amos 5-21

כא שָׂנֵאתִי מָאַסְתִּי, חַגֵּיכֶם; וְלֹא אָרִיחַ, בְּעַצְּרֹתֵיכֶם. 21 I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

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Leib Shachar's avatar

Yea, he's talking to people like you.

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Uriah’s Wife's avatar

Hear that Rav Nosson? You’re a “krum” oppressor but not an atheist. To Sender, the logical extension is that you’re a camouflaged proselytizer disguised as an ordained Rov.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

Maybe the lesson is that the IDF needs to be larger and better funded, and we need to stop directing billions of shekels towards financing the lives of those who profess to believe that we are reliant on Hashem alone, and let them just actually live off their bitachon? Maybe the lesson is that they need to stop shirking their responsibilities, and join the IDF so that there can be more soldiers on patrol?

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Avraham marcus's avatar

At least מילואים has too many people. I was sent home along with some of my friends. I dont think the army is too small or underfunded. There was large oversight and strategy issues (such as Netanyahu twidling his thumbs for 20 years has hamas got stronger and stronger).

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Eli B's avatar

Sorry but IMO the 5 hour delay in dealing with 1000 terrorists is so shocking - bordering on overt Nissim (albeit upsetting ones) one can, and should, only look for spiritual causes.

What would Rambam think of your comment "the IDF needs to be better funded". Sorry but not only is this not factual, it's borderline Kefira.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

Clearly you have no idea what Rambam writes about the churban. He says that it happened because the Jewish People did not pay sufficient attention to military effort.

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Ephraim's avatar

You're inferring a big חידוש in the רמב"ם, since the vast majority of the population pays attention to the military effort. Is the רמב"ם referring to the חרדי minority who don't pay attention to the military effort (by enlisting)? And what about חרדים who like you & I are finding otherwise to support the military effort?

Whether the IDF failures were due to a lack of funding is something which has to be investigated and determined. I suspect that if there was less חרדים welfare and more money available to the IDF, the money would still go elsewhere.

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David Silberman's avatar

can you please provide a quote for this?

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Eli B's avatar

Please provide citation.

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David Ohsie's avatar

From Rambam Letter on Astrology: "[T]his kind of involvement in false astrological works whose notions are essentially pagan led to the loss of our kingdom, the destruction of our Holy Temple and extended the duration of the exile to the present day. Our ancestors sinned and disappeared, for as we explained they strayed after false notions, ascribing to them purposeful ends, while neglecting the arts of martial defense and government. No wonder the prophets referred to them as ignorant and foolish. They were surely correct in this, for they pursued "vain things which cannot profit nor deliver because they are vain" (Samuel 12:21)

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Ephraim's avatar

Mostly true. But there's no doubt that once we have הלכות and obligations regarding מלחמת מצוה, that military effort become a spiritual activity. As such, ignoring the military effort becomes a sin, and not just wrong השתדלות.

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

I'm not sure why you think that citation from Rambam is remotely relevant. Are you claiming that when charedi Gedolim say that religious Zionist rabbonim are deeply misguided that they are committing bizuy talmidei chachamim?

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

You have to understand that from a religious, non-charedi perspective, the fact that the charedi community does not serve in the army is a tremendous RELIGIOUS failing.

But my main point was that EB's explanation as to why this tragedy happened was sheer speculation with absolutely no reason to believe that it's true, and one could just as easily speculate the exact opposite.

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David Ohsie's avatar

"That the catastrophic failure of Israel's much vaunted intelligence dispels the reliance on Kochi VeOtzem Yodi and demonstrates crystal clear how indeed we are so reliant on Hashem alone". Obvious failures in intelligence in planning associated with the attack prove the importance of intelligence and planning. You seem to have it backwards.

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Eli B's avatar

I am wondering if you are even Jewish

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David Ohsie's avatar

Obvious to the experts in retrospect as admitted by the experts. There is no perfect system. The Gaza wall stopped the second intifada and was wonderfully effective. But all systems fail and need to be improved. This is one the system should have caught signals were ignored, distractions occurred, and the enemy had some new tricks up their sleeves. It will be fixed.

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David Ohsie's avatar

I have no clue what you are talking about. When something goes wrong you analyze the failure and improve. That's why there used to be many more plane crashes than there are now; every time there is an accident or near miss they figure out what was wrong with the system and improve it. In fact that is how all human driven improvement in all areas has ever worked. Your Rambam quote is wholly inapplicable. The chief of Israeli military intelligence didn't say that things just happen. He accepted that he had failed and been one of the causes of the tragedy.

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David Ohsie's avatar

"that the losses were suffered primarily by secular Jews, and that some secular Jews made a shocking Chilul Hashem on the holiest part of the holiest day of the year?" This is absurd and offensive on so many levels. Offensive because we don't blame the victims of an attack for being impacted. We look at practical remediations and our own moral failings. And quite absurd: because you disagree with actions of a group of people, a complete different group of people who appear similar to you were killed, along with lots of others in the same geographical area? Also absurd, because if you studied our history and use the same logic, then we have been punished again and again for observing the mitzvos and should be trying something else.

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Eli B's avatar

It's not a matter of me, EB, disagreeing with the actions of this group.

They did something that noone can agree with, preventing Tefillos on Neilah.

Unless you think it was defensible?

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Avraham marcus's avatar

The jews in the south who were atacked are traditional and respect Torah

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Eli B's avatar

sure, some.

but most of the ravers on Shabbos werent .

i am NOT saying they deserved any of what happened CH"V

im saying if any spiritual lessons are to be learned, perhaps the sector most affected should be the ones having the most thought about it

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David Ohsie's avatar

People of all camps do indefensible things all the time (if we grant that it was indefensible). Usually (always?) the just result is not mass slaughter of the people who did them, let alone the slaughter of others who weren't there but some portion of whom have the same outlook. That was all your invention.

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Mikhail Olivson's avatar

One step at a time

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Avraham's avatar

What an original, but strange, way of making your point - again.

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CY's avatar

It's not "Hamas' mistake". It's Hamas' lie. They know perfectly well that we are not European.

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Turk Hill's avatar

Some Jews look white or have a white complexion but we are not white. The fact that Jews have always have a middle eastern identity, a unique cultural language (Hebrew), a unique religion (Torah and Judaism) and a unique history is proof that Jews did not originate in Europe despite living in Europe for some time. Besides, throughout history, Jews have never been considered "European" by the Europeans. Jews were attacked but pushed away, kick around from country to country in Europe. How can we be European?

The so-called Arab Palestinians, are not native. The so-called Palestinians do not originate in the land of Israel but outside and sounding it. They were Arabs and they were imported into Israel. Thus Jews are the original Palestinians. But since Palestine was a name given to s by the Romans, the real colonizers from Europe, I prefer to call us Israelites, after the true name of our territory, the land of Israel.

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מיכאל לייזר בן בנימין's avatar

We are not indigenous.

Abraham came from Ur.

Joshua conquered the Canaanites.

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Avraham's avatar

According to evolutionists, everyone came from Africa. The world should be returned to birds, the supposed descendants of the dinosaurs.

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nate handle's avatar

whats a shankbone?

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Turk Hill's avatar

Great post. We agree that the Land of Israel is our ancestral home. We are here to stay.

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Joe Berry's avatar

It's calledl leishmaniasis.

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David Ilan's avatar

How are hyraxes biologically similar to elephants? Are they like both manatees and elephants and have teeth that extend from a crypt at the back of the jaws and move forwards?

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Joe Berry's avatar

That was a nice reference and explanation of the relationship between hyraxes and elephants. The pictures were adorable. And the two types of animals look so much alike :).

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David Ilan's avatar

You are completely ignorant of dentition similarities.

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Turk Hill's avatar

Hamas needs to justify its own existence. They call themselves freedom fighters. They are thugs and evil men. They lie and pretend that Jews are not native to the land. But dig in Israel and you will find Jewish coins and Jewish ruins. You will never find Arab coins and Arab ruins.

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Ephraim's avatar

" Neturei Karta, which decries and condemns Zionism's transformation of Judaism,"

I condemn Neturei Karta's transformation and distortion of Judaism.

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Leib Shachar's avatar

Just curious, was he influential to you in any way or you simply agree with him? Is there a reason you pick him and not, let's say the Satmar Rav?

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Weaver's avatar

I am definitely not a supporter of Neturei Karta, but those are fascinating stories. Reb Amram Blau was a very complex person.

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Leib Shachar's avatar

Thanks. The reason I asked is because most anti-Zionists I know of were influenced by Satmar (I live in US) and was wondering why you picked Rav Amram. But from what you say that makes a lot of sense. I am well aware of Rav Amrams Ahavas Yisrael and that he was held in great esteem, also by the Brisker Rav, though I am not sure he always agreed with him.

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David Ilan's avatar

You’re nothing but dust and ashes….

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Natan Slifkin's avatar

Oh, I agree. Though I suspect that we have very different ideas as to which spiritual components of Klal Yisrael are the ones that need the greatest work. Note that, for example, while you highlight specifically Shabbos, that does not reflect the general trend of what the Neviim or Chazal point to as the causes of the previous Destructions.

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shulman's avatar

we have no guarantee to our staying in Israel. E.Y. spits out those who act in certain ways against the Torah. I hope and pray that we continue to stay, and safely, but we definitely need a religious awakening. and we can't all point fingers, but this starts with ourselves. we all know our shortcomings and how to improve. those who have been lax in their entire religious commitments need to strengthen that. those who have been strong with faults need to work on those faults. one thing we ALL must do is come together and grow as God's nation

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