your pt is well reasoned. Obviously, the q is whether learning instead of joining forces with a secular government's army, even if they're defending your country, fits in with the other inappropriate times for learning. But spelling out that there are times when learning can be spiritually poisonous is important.
Meir Kahane once said that he welcomed his stints in jail, because that's when he finally had time to get some good learning in. (He wrote a number of sefarim and books in jail.)
Based on my limited knowledge of Kahane's writings, it appears to me that he understood Arabs because he himself thought like an Arab, so to speak. I am guessing you would not take that as a compliment.
If we come at the end them with the attitude of a strong people who arent going anywhere then maybe theres hope. If we come with David Ilans soft, squishy, Western mores like "racism is bad" then were toast.
I’ll stand up for israel and will do my share to defend our land and people. And I’ll also stand up and condemn the cancer of racism that has invaded the right wing and orthodoxy.
You are absolutely right about this sin of avoiding army duty. Unfortunately you are preaching to the converted on this blog. Those charedi criminals don't care what you think - they have been brainwashed since childhood - somewhat like kids in Gaza.
There are charedim who read my blog. And there are non-charedim who need to be convinced of the gravity of the problem, in order to stop enabling it with their votes and donations. And there are those who are well aware of the problem, but who appreciate the tools to argue with others.
Many people who have been to jail in Israel - especially ones who were eligible for the “Torah Wing” - have come out saying that it’s been some of the best Torah learning they ever did.
You right "And it’s cruel and wrong, very cruel and incredibly wrong, to learn Torah when your brothers are absolutely desperate for help. There’s nothing holy about it."
In 2014 the call wasn't for help it was for equal duty
Surprised at Mishpaca Magazine for runningwith such and article and cover. This fits more for an AMI as they cater to the feeble minded. Mishpacha is a bit more intelligent and honest.
Anyway, after the initial shock, they cover is totally correct. Think about it, these people are criminals for going against the law of the land. So the word CRIMMANALS fits for them perfect. Now you can also make the claim they are HOLY. as they daven 3 times a day, eat kosher etc.
No difference then catching criminals, taking single mothers programs and are married, those who had no intention to go work during Covid but took Covid unemployment, Nursing home scams, and every other shenanigan pulled . They are also HOLY in their private lives. There is no conflict of being a criminal but at the same time being holy.
Here let me give you an example:
This Reb Dov is encouraging other people not to go to the army and on the books he is not allowed to do so . It is criminal offence in Israel, and against the law, But he is Holy - He is even traveling to the United States to collect money when he is 95. Now may I ask you is that not true holiness??
It would be proper for Charedi leaders to recognize that the situation now is not what it was in 2014. It's a מלחמת מצוה, if not just לא תעמוד על דם רעך.
Even though it wasn't obvious then, from details that have emerged recently, it seems that the 2014 Gaza Conflict had the potential of being like October 7th, where Hamas had (I believe) 30 attack tunnels entering into Israel. We lost around 69 soldiers in that war, and essentially settled for a draw.
Settling for a draw this time is simply out of the question. Letting Hamas remain in control of Gaza puts more Israeli civilians at risk in the future. Hamas will never stop trying to destroy Israel.
You should take your own example and Apply to yourself
It's not criminal to learn Torah it's criminal to do it instead of the IDF Mishpach magazine wasn't saying any form of learning Torah is a crime "Torah study " is different than "learning Torah" even you Freeze it differently than how The magazine freezed it
And I know you are narrow minded and you think that over a million people are driven by "gdolim" Who are lunatics
But wether you like it or if you're Capable of understanding or acknowledging there is another side
Another "השקפה" you can Debate who's right but you are absolutely
Inarrow minded
Why don't you post a real debate between you and somebody from the charidi community and let your readers decide if there is another side to the situation or are the charadi are absoludelete, idiots and lunatics?
I can give you a list of Scholars that would definitely Beat you in a debate.
It is seriously hilarious to see you, and this blog, huffing about (what you perceive as) misleading or sensationalistic headlines. I would laugh at the lack of self-awareness, if I didn't think you were perfectly aware of the irony, but just didn't care.
And I'm afraid you are dreaming, like countless other self-proclaimed "influencers", when you boast, "there are charedim who read my blog." Your typical reader is encapsulated perfectly by commenter David Ilan, who says here, I quote "Kahane's Torah was perverted too, being a racist." Those are your people now, Nate. Enjoy them.
That's right. You know who they are, and no one else does. And no person would take seriously your claim to have Charedi readers, any more than they'd believe (say) Avi Shafran's claim to have Tel Avivian's reading him.
That's OK, you have other readers. "Kahane's Torah was perverted too, being a racist."
The army/charedi issue has been burning in earnest for at least 50 years. It's not a simple question, to claim otherwise is naive and ignorant. I see the points raised by both sides, but anytime I see something from this blog (used to be frequently, now very infrequently) I empathize more and more with the charedi pov.
I want to say Thillem, especially chapter 23 ,64, 124 for the Israeli soldiers not to get hurt. I told them I promise and take it as a personal commitment to say it twice a day - morning after Shacharis and night right "before" Kriyas Shema ( as afterwards you cant talk out). However, they want to put me in a JAIL CELL as I am not going to the army.
A GOD CHILLING CRY !!!
Israel wants to put people in jail when they innocently want to say a bit of Tihillem. Hashem Yirachim.
Please can all the HOLY Gidolim come to my defense and stop this horrible GIZEYRA against me. Please go to America and collect money on my behalf - I am out of options. Please!
your pt is well reasoned. Obviously, the q is whether learning instead of joining forces with a secular government's army, even if they're defending your country, fits in with the other inappropriate times for learning. But spelling out that there are times when learning can be spiritually poisonous is important.
So they will be arrested and sent to prison, where they can study Torah at the states expense. Am I missing something?
Meir Kahane once said that he welcomed his stints in jail, because that's when he finally had time to get some good learning in. (He wrote a number of sefarim and books in jail.)
Kahane’s torah was perverted too, being a racist
So coexistence with the arabs IS an option? I'd take racism over delusion.
Based on my limited knowledge of Kahane's writings, it appears to me that he understood Arabs because he himself thought like an Arab, so to speak. I am guessing you would not take that as a compliment.
If we come at the end them with the attitude of a strong people who arent going anywhere then maybe theres hope. If we come with David Ilans soft, squishy, Western mores like "racism is bad" then were toast.
I’ll stand up for israel and will do my share to defend our land and people. And I’ll also stand up and condemn the cancer of racism that has invaded the right wing and orthodoxy.
There's truth to it. Polite Westerners have no hope of understanding the arabs. Judaism and Islam however have similarities.
Can confirm.
On visiting him in jail (Russian Compound) he greeted me in good spirits, Rashba in hand, saying exactly that.
You are absolutely right about this sin of avoiding army duty. Unfortunately you are preaching to the converted on this blog. Those charedi criminals don't care what you think - they have been brainwashed since childhood - somewhat like kids in Gaza.
There are charedim who read my blog. And there are non-charedim who need to be convinced of the gravity of the problem, in order to stop enabling it with their votes and donations. And there are those who are well aware of the problem, but who appreciate the tools to argue with others.
hey - me no convert!
These chareidi rags which call themselves magazines love fear mongering.
In fairness, this is a crowd that likes to have a sefer open during davening as well.
Many people who have been to jail in Israel - especially ones who were eligible for the “Torah Wing” - have come out saying that it’s been some of the best Torah learning they ever did.
Well you can't rehabilitate everybody.
That article was in 2014
You right "And it’s cruel and wrong, very cruel and incredibly wrong, to learn Torah when your brothers are absolutely desperate for help. There’s nothing holy about it."
In 2014 the call wasn't for help it was for equal duty
Big difference
Be more Honest to your readers
Surprised at Mishpaca Magazine for runningwith such and article and cover. This fits more for an AMI as they cater to the feeble minded. Mishpacha is a bit more intelligent and honest.
Anyway, after the initial shock, they cover is totally correct. Think about it, these people are criminals for going against the law of the land. So the word CRIMMANALS fits for them perfect. Now you can also make the claim they are HOLY. as they daven 3 times a day, eat kosher etc.
No difference then catching criminals, taking single mothers programs and are married, those who had no intention to go work during Covid but took Covid unemployment, Nursing home scams, and every other shenanigan pulled . They are also HOLY in their private lives. There is no conflict of being a criminal but at the same time being holy.
Here let me give you an example:
This Reb Dov is encouraging other people not to go to the army and on the books he is not allowed to do so . It is criminal offence in Israel, and against the law, But he is Holy - He is even traveling to the United States to collect money when he is 95. Now may I ask you is that not true holiness??
Bet your they dont pay taxes on what they collect either.
To be fair, this article was back in 2014, way before the current war and controversy
It would be proper for Charedi leaders to recognize that the situation now is not what it was in 2014. It's a מלחמת מצוה, if not just לא תעמוד על דם רעך.
Even though it wasn't obvious then, from details that have emerged recently, it seems that the 2014 Gaza Conflict had the potential of being like October 7th, where Hamas had (I believe) 30 attack tunnels entering into Israel. We lost around 69 soldiers in that war, and essentially settled for a draw.
Settling for a draw this time is simply out of the question. Letting Hamas remain in control of Gaza puts more Israeli civilians at risk in the future. Hamas will never stop trying to destroy Israel.
You should take your own example and Apply to yourself
It's not criminal to learn Torah it's criminal to do it instead of the IDF Mishpach magazine wasn't saying any form of learning Torah is a crime "Torah study " is different than "learning Torah" even you Freeze it differently than how The magazine freezed it
And I know you are narrow minded and you think that over a million people are driven by "gdolim" Who are lunatics
But wether you like it or if you're Capable of understanding or acknowledging there is another side
Another "השקפה" you can Debate who's right but you are absolutely
Inarrow minded
Why don't you post a real debate between you and somebody from the charidi community and let your readers decide if there is another side to the situation or are the charadi are absoludelete, idiots and lunatics?
I can give you a list of Scholars that would definitely Beat you in a debate.
It is seriously hilarious to see you, and this blog, huffing about (what you perceive as) misleading or sensationalistic headlines. I would laugh at the lack of self-awareness, if I didn't think you were perfectly aware of the irony, but just didn't care.
And I'm afraid you are dreaming, like countless other self-proclaimed "influencers", when you boast, "there are charedim who read my blog." Your typical reader is encapsulated perfectly by commenter David Ilan, who says here, I quote "Kahane's Torah was perverted too, being a racist." Those are your people now, Nate. Enjoy them.
Actually, it's a funny thing, but I know who my subscribers are far better than you do.
Let me know how many isreali charidim are subscribed
My guess not so many
So since all you talked about is army army and army
How is it relevant how many charidi Americans are subscribed
That's right. You know who they are, and no one else does. And no person would take seriously your claim to have Charedi readers, any more than they'd believe (say) Avi Shafran's claim to have Tel Avivian's reading him.
That's OK, you have other readers. "Kahane's Torah was perverted too, being a racist."
You can believe whatever you want to believe, including about what other people believe.
Aside from your skeptical assessment of the blog readers here, you agree with the contents of the post?
The army/charedi issue has been burning in earnest for at least 50 years. It's not a simple question, to claim otherwise is naive and ignorant. I see the points raised by both sides, but anytime I see something from this blog (used to be frequently, now very infrequently) I empathize more and more with the charedi pov.
I am CRYING all morning long....
I want to say Thillem, especially chapter 23 ,64, 124 for the Israeli soldiers not to get hurt. I told them I promise and take it as a personal commitment to say it twice a day - morning after Shacharis and night right "before" Kriyas Shema ( as afterwards you cant talk out). However, they want to put me in a JAIL CELL as I am not going to the army.
A GOD CHILLING CRY !!!
Israel wants to put people in jail when they innocently want to say a bit of Tihillem. Hashem Yirachim.
Please can all the HOLY Gidolim come to my defense and stop this horrible GIZEYRA against me. Please go to America and collect money on my behalf - I am out of options. Please!
And pro-terrorist hoodlums are not facing deportation for “free speech”.
The link to the Rav Shteinman article about erev Shabbos doesn't seem to work for me. Can you double check it?
I tried googling also but couldn't find...
Hey, if you are bringing up old Mishpacha articles I can bring up old Ami articles!
https://open.substack.com/pub/daastorah/p/what-the-ami-lev-tahor-debacle-can?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=33pit