By the way, to those who are wondering why comments are restricted to paid subscribers: Surely those who believe in the importance of defending charedi policy would see an $8 donation to the BMNH as a small price to pay for this mitzvah. Besides, parnasa is all in the hands of Hashem anyway.
This post is a logical fallacy. There is only so much Torah learning can do to protect mechalelei Shabbos, atheists and other reshoim. Thus the October 7th massacre does not prove the failure of Torah learning to protect.
Not at all. The Charedi world tries very hard to do kiruv, but most chilonim aren’t interested. (Not sure why you think it’s always the Chareidim’s fault)
But if it's the Chilul Shabbos of chilonim that caused 7/10, then surely charedim should focus more on kiruv. Most bnei yeshivos are not involved in kiruv. (The reason why I'm blaming charedim is that they/you are claiming that the determining factor is Torah or Shabbos.)
There are plenty of organisations who do kiruv. Think Ohr Someyach, Aish, Arachim etc. I agree that religious people as a whole (including Dati Leumi) should try to do more kiruv, but the principal problem is not a lack of people doing kiruv, but a lack of chilonim who would be receptive to kiruv.
Again. If you want to claim that the reason for 7/10 is Chillul Shabbos of Chilonim, then charedim should be leaving yeshiva to do kiruv, and seeking to live in chiloni neighborhoods. They're not. (Ohr Somayach etc. are not representative of the mainstream Israeli chareidi world). Besides, R. Landau said nothing about that.
What does this have to do with what R. Landau said? The Israeli army officer was trying to persuade him that Chareidim should join the army, and R. Landau disagree, saying that Torah protects klal yisroel. You’re now making a different point, that Chareidim should do more kiruv. This may well be true, but should apply equally to all religious Jews. And it doesn’t mean that bnei yeshiva should leave yeshiva to do kiruv, just like it doesn’t mean that religious soldiers should leave the army to do kiruv.
Yeah. Why they aren't pouring through yeshiva doors demanding to learn from magnetic and appealing Torah personalities like Rav Landau and Rav Bunim Schreiber is a great mystery.
Do you believe Tshuva, Tefelia, and Tzedaka ma'avirn es roah hagizeyra? Is there a reckoning anywhere for not praying enough? If you are going to say that "Torah protects" is a "fraud" how are the items above any different?
For the sake for the security of this country, and in order to address the great inequality and wrong in the Jewish state, it’s crucial to defund the Haredim. In principle they also should be deprived of their Israel citizenship, but that isn't politically feasible. Yet.
You forget that Chareidim are human beings like all of us.Are the Chareidi mother's ready to put their sons in danger especially when they and their husbands, some of them Rabbanim,don't respect and don't value the Israeli government?!
Amish boys start working after they leave 8th grade, for the most part. Their furniture-making and construction skills are in high demand. Then there's the fact that they refuse to take money from the government.
Yes, the Amish are pacifists. But numerically, they are an insignificant minority in the U.S., and their absence from the military has absolutely no effect on the country's ability and readiness to defend itself. Moreover, the Amish make no claim that it is their way of life that magically protects the whole country against its enemies.
The Amish are in fact "protecting the land" -- thanks to their environmentally friendly land usage. But they don't boast about it. "One of the salient features of the Amish culture, along with numerous other peaceful societies, is to avoid calling attention to oneself, to avoid anything remotely resembling bragging that could lead to envy, jealousy, and possibly violence." See https://peacefulsocieties.uncg.edu/2018/06/21/the-amish-are-protecting-the-land/
Yes. By not participating in a modern economy they are the greatest long term threat to the survival of the State of Israel, more dangerous than even Iran.
Those Amish are very well to do. They have prosperous farms and businesses. Have you ever seen an Amish stand at a market? It’s swamped because people know they are honest and make quality products and produce.
By the way, to those who are wondering why comments are restricted to paid subscribers: Surely those who believe in the importance of defending charedi policy would see an $8 donation to the BMNH as a small price to pay for this mitzvah. Besides, parnasa is all in the hands of Hashem anyway.
This post is a logical fallacy. There is only so much Torah learning can do to protect mechalelei Shabbos, atheists and other reshoim. Thus the October 7th massacre does not prove the failure of Torah learning to protect.
Ah, so you're saying that the charedi world did not make enough efforts at Kiruv?
Not at all. The Charedi world tries very hard to do kiruv, but most chilonim aren’t interested. (Not sure why you think it’s always the Chareidim’s fault)
But if it's the Chilul Shabbos of chilonim that caused 7/10, then surely charedim should focus more on kiruv. Most bnei yeshivos are not involved in kiruv. (The reason why I'm blaming charedim is that they/you are claiming that the determining factor is Torah or Shabbos.)
There are plenty of organisations who do kiruv. Think Ohr Someyach, Aish, Arachim etc. I agree that religious people as a whole (including Dati Leumi) should try to do more kiruv, but the principal problem is not a lack of people doing kiruv, but a lack of chilonim who would be receptive to kiruv.
Again. If you want to claim that the reason for 7/10 is Chillul Shabbos of Chilonim, then charedim should be leaving yeshiva to do kiruv, and seeking to live in chiloni neighborhoods. They're not. (Ohr Somayach etc. are not representative of the mainstream Israeli chareidi world). Besides, R. Landau said nothing about that.
What does this have to do with what R. Landau said? The Israeli army officer was trying to persuade him that Chareidim should join the army, and R. Landau disagree, saying that Torah protects klal yisroel. You’re now making a different point, that Chareidim should do more kiruv. This may well be true, but should apply equally to all religious Jews. And it doesn’t mean that bnei yeshiva should leave yeshiva to do kiruv, just like it doesn’t mean that religious soldiers should leave the army to do kiruv.
You really wonder why they aren’t interested after hearing your hateful rants…???
When you say hateful rants, do you mean my comment? It was neither hateful nor a rant. It was a factual statement. Or do you mean something else?
Since when do you decide who is a Rasha…?
It’s not me deciding, it’s the Torah! Or do you think that someone who doesn’t keep mitzvos should be called a tzaddik?
Yeah. Why they aren't pouring through yeshiva doors demanding to learn from magnetic and appealing Torah personalities like Rav Landau and Rav Bunim Schreiber is a great mystery.
How many people would need to be learning torah and not Michalel shabbos to prevent an October 7th? The whole country?
I’m afraid I cannot answer such a question.
Do you believe Tshuva, Tefelia, and Tzedaka ma'avirn es roah hagizeyra? Is there a reckoning anywhere for not praying enough? If you are going to say that "Torah protects" is a "fraud" how are the items above any different?
In more yeshivish "shprach",
לדידהו, דקא סברי דלימודייהו קא מגני לישראל, שמע מינה דלימודייהו לא עביד מידי
For the sake for the security of this country, and in order to address the great inequality and wrong in the Jewish state, it’s crucial to defund the Haredim. In principle they also should be deprived of their Israel citizenship, but that isn't politically feasible. Yet.
I'm expecting 2 charedi responses on this blog:
1. The usual whatabiutery and deflection - why is Natan obsessed with the charedim etc etc
2. The learning MUST have helped, so I guess, the massacre would have been much worse if not for the learning. Strawman argument
https://www.makorrishon.co.il/opinion/710245/
You forget that Chareidim are human beings like all of us.Are the Chareidi mother's ready to put their sons in danger especially when they and their husbands, some of them Rabbanim,don't respect and don't value the Israeli government?!
Harsh. But may be what is needed.
y don't u ask these people under what circumstances would they take responsibility?
and more importantly 2 whom r they responsible and what punishment will they receive when they r found to be wrong. (mistaken)
what do u care?
these r similar 2 the Amish
with the same idiocy
There r lots of differences between the Amish and the Heimish (and the Hamish).
Amish boys start working after they leave 8th grade, for the most part. Their furniture-making and construction skills are in high demand. Then there's the fact that they refuse to take money from the government.
not regarding fighting in a war
Yes, the Amish are pacifists. But numerically, they are an insignificant minority in the U.S., and their absence from the military has absolutely no effect on the country's ability and readiness to defend itself. Moreover, the Amish make no claim that it is their way of life that magically protects the whole country against its enemies.
how do u know?
The Amish are in fact "protecting the land" -- thanks to their environmentally friendly land usage. But they don't boast about it. "One of the salient features of the Amish culture, along with numerous other peaceful societies, is to avoid calling attention to oneself, to avoid anything remotely resembling bragging that could lead to envy, jealousy, and possibly violence." See https://peacefulsocieties.uncg.edu/2018/06/21/the-amish-are-protecting-the-land/
The Amish are not a threat to the survival of the Jewish People.
and the haredim r?
Yes. By not participating in a modern economy they are the greatest long term threat to the survival of the State of Israel, more dangerous than even Iran.
let economics take its course
Those Amish are very well to do. They have prosperous farms and businesses. Have you ever seen an Amish stand at a market? It’s swamped because people know they are honest and make quality products and produce.