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michael stern's avatar

This may be silly question but I would appreciate an answer.

As I understand it the charedim claim that their learning protects the people of Israel. From wither is there proof of this ? Using precedents to the contrary:

- Joshua, Saul, David all fought physical battles. None of them claimed that their Torah protected the people.

- Rabbi Akiva apparently supported Bar Kochba in his rebellion against the Romans. No one claimed that that their Torah protected the people so negating a requirement to fight the Romans as far as I can see.

-Rabbi Johanan Ben Zakai negotiated with Vespasian to try and save what he could from the beseiged Jerusalem. He did not claim that his Torah would protect the people from churban hayis.

Given the Torah of Rashi, Tosfos etc for generations where was the Torah protection against the crusades, Chemielinski, the Holocaust etc etc.

If the claim is new is it because it is only now justifed in that the current learning results in a greater spiritual level than previously and therefore, unlike the above forebears, no army is necessary -then why did 7 October happen. Also where is the proof of that ?

And if an Army is required given that the Torah apparently does not provide complete protection (or we would not be where we are) then everyone has to contribute. As an analogy - even a poor man is required to give tzedaka.

It is all very puzzling.

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joel rich's avatar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

there are usually two choices, either admit error or double down

Bsorot tovot

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