This is ignorance of the US and UK that only someone who has never lived there could ever come up with. He is clearly unaware that there is no draft in the US and UK. US govt and housing benefits are the lowest in the western world as befits the most capitalist country and are mostly related to having worked. He has no idea that a full time yeshiva student and his wife cannot live off these tiny amounts if he is learning full time and not working and will also have no health insurance unlike in Israel. The UK offers slightly more but nothing like Israel which is hardly surprising since many of these govt benefits in Israel were designed by the charedi parties with their voters in mind such as free childcare and tens of thousands of subsidized apartments just for charedim which the US and UK do not offer.
But the most ridiculous thing is his claim that in the US and UK, yeshiva students can get a college degree, work and get a job in govt institutions. Some of them even do those things because it is socially acceptable there. The biggest impediment to Israeli charedim doing any of these things is their leaders telling them it is forbidden and they have to stay in yeshiva forever while their wives work
>”He has no idea that a full time yeshiva student and his wife cannot live off these tiny amounts if he is learning full time and not working and will also have no health insurance unlike in Israel."
Unfortunately, this isn't really true. In fact, a significant percentage of NY/NJ yeshivish kollel yungeleit and chasidim live primarily off of various welfare programs, including essentially "free” healthcare (food stamps, section 8, Medicaid/medicaire, etc).
It is true that this requires a lot more welfare fraud/stuff off the books, compared to Israel, where it's mostly the system as "intended" (ie less actual shenanigans and fraud), similar to Western Europe.
The idea that the US is less of a welfare state than western European countries is a common one, and it used to be true, but in practice, it's no longer true
I will save my personal feelings for the end. For now, let's look at a basic assumption and factual errors in this argument.
My assumption: He's referring to Israeli citizen Ḥareidim learning in Israeli yeshivot and American citizen Ḥareidim learning in American yeshivot. Generally speaking, non-US citizens are ineligible for most of the benefits described in the article due to the "public charge" rule. USC 1182(a)(4).
Having said that, in addition to Bob's earlier comment, the ignorance of his assertions is incredibly immense due to two words: Selective Service. All US citizens and immigrants much register for Selective Service in the same age bracket as yeshiva students. In the event of a draft, failure to serve in the US military would result in loss of all of the "freedoms" described in the post (except, in this case ironically, earning a degree).
Based upon my rudimentary understanding, there would be no significant and substantive difference between US and Israeli law under the proposed bill. The only difference is Israel has an active draft while the US does not. That has nothing to do with the law itself.
As a Religious Zionist Rabbi, attorney, and disabled combat veteran of the US Army, I find the Ḥareidi rhetoric to be so vapid and disgusting. These arguments fly in the face of actual Torah values (as R' Slifkin has noted time and again) and have caused the biggest Ḥillul HaShem AMONGST JEWS since at least Shabtai Tzvi. I applaud R' Slifkin's attempts to combat this abhorrent situation.
I can't believe that someone who calla himself a credible journalist would ignore the fact that Chareidim are such a miniscule percentage of the population in the US and UK and are such a significant percentage here in Israel. Of course no one cares what kind of lifestyle you lead when you're .01% of the population.
And Israeli chareidim don't realize that tuition and healthcare are the 2 biggest expenses for frum families in the US.
Thank you Mr Ehrlich for saying the quiet part out loud. It's all about lifestyle choices, specifically which place allows for the easiest one.
Nothing about the relative QUALITY of the learning (or the ruchnius). So, for the "learners", it's not really about learning (nor the ruchnius) at all.
This is ignorance of the US and UK that only someone who has never lived there could ever come up with. He is clearly unaware that there is no draft in the US and UK. US govt and housing benefits are the lowest in the western world as befits the most capitalist country and are mostly related to having worked. He has no idea that a full time yeshiva student and his wife cannot live off these tiny amounts if he is learning full time and not working and will also have no health insurance unlike in Israel. The UK offers slightly more but nothing like Israel which is hardly surprising since many of these govt benefits in Israel were designed by the charedi parties with their voters in mind such as free childcare and tens of thousands of subsidized apartments just for charedim which the US and UK do not offer.
But the most ridiculous thing is his claim that in the US and UK, yeshiva students can get a college degree, work and get a job in govt institutions. Some of them even do those things because it is socially acceptable there. The biggest impediment to Israeli charedim doing any of these things is their leaders telling them it is forbidden and they have to stay in yeshiva forever while their wives work
>”He has no idea that a full time yeshiva student and his wife cannot live off these tiny amounts if he is learning full time and not working and will also have no health insurance unlike in Israel."
Unfortunately, this isn't really true. In fact, a significant percentage of NY/NJ yeshivish kollel yungeleit and chasidim live primarily off of various welfare programs, including essentially "free” healthcare (food stamps, section 8, Medicaid/medicaire, etc).
It is true that this requires a lot more welfare fraud/stuff off the books, compared to Israel, where it's mostly the system as "intended" (ie less actual shenanigans and fraud), similar to Western Europe.
The idea that the US is less of a welfare state than western European countries is a common one, and it used to be true, but in practice, it's no longer true
Somebody should translate Ehrlich's post to Yiddish and post it in pashkivili in Haredi neighborhoods to motivate Haredim to emigrate.
I will save my personal feelings for the end. For now, let's look at a basic assumption and factual errors in this argument.
My assumption: He's referring to Israeli citizen Ḥareidim learning in Israeli yeshivot and American citizen Ḥareidim learning in American yeshivot. Generally speaking, non-US citizens are ineligible for most of the benefits described in the article due to the "public charge" rule. USC 1182(a)(4).
Having said that, in addition to Bob's earlier comment, the ignorance of his assertions is incredibly immense due to two words: Selective Service. All US citizens and immigrants much register for Selective Service in the same age bracket as yeshiva students. In the event of a draft, failure to serve in the US military would result in loss of all of the "freedoms" described in the post (except, in this case ironically, earning a degree).
Based upon my rudimentary understanding, there would be no significant and substantive difference between US and Israeli law under the proposed bill. The only difference is Israel has an active draft while the US does not. That has nothing to do with the law itself.
As a Religious Zionist Rabbi, attorney, and disabled combat veteran of the US Army, I find the Ḥareidi rhetoric to be so vapid and disgusting. These arguments fly in the face of actual Torah values (as R' Slifkin has noted time and again) and have caused the biggest Ḥillul HaShem AMONGST JEWS since at least Shabtai Tzvi. I applaud R' Slifkin's attempts to combat this abhorrent situation.
I can't believe that someone who calla himself a credible journalist would ignore the fact that Chareidim are such a miniscule percentage of the population in the US and UK and are such a significant percentage here in Israel. Of course no one cares what kind of lifestyle you lead when you're .01% of the population.
And Israeli chareidim don't realize that tuition and healthcare are the 2 biggest expenses for frum families in the US.
Y’know - i accept all that Mishpacha says - and perhaps it will encourage the Isrseli “Torah students” to emigrate…..
The US is not exactly welcoming of welfare case migrants at the moment.
Maybe there's a Uganda Plan.
Thank you Mr Ehrlich for saying the quiet part out loud. It's all about lifestyle choices, specifically which place allows for the easiest one.
Nothing about the relative QUALITY of the learning (or the ruchnius). So, for the "learners", it's not really about learning (nor the ruchnius) at all.