Well, since there is no mitzvah in the Torah for "Thou shalt be chareidi" and that's basically what these "gedolim" parrot , there's no real legs for their arguments to stand on.
There IS a mitzvah in the Torah to fight in a milchemet mitzvah for the protection of Eretz Yisrael.......
Yes, the actual arguments behind the proclamations of Gedolim are not based on rigorous analysis of Rabbinic sources or the current reality. The reason for this is that these proclamations are their public policy--namely, what they see as in the best interest of their community. From their perspective, Rabbi Slifkin's arguments are not persuasive because obviously it is better for them if their community is not (for example) burdened with army service.
This is why I believe for the first time in forever, it's appropriate to say we don't have "real" gedolim. Throughout the 20th century, this phenomenon did not exist. The gedolim were not afraid to speak and their leadership was substantive and compelling and stood up to scrutiny (sure, you had YU types occasionally writing rejoinders revealing potential weak points, but that was it).
Also, I don't think this wizard of Oz thing is entirely the fault of gedolim today - society has gone haywire and strong, principled and consistent leadership is borderline impossible. But the times have elevated the people whose personalities resonate with authority - not those who are most qualified to lead authentically al pi Torah. Although this applies only in the charedi and yeshivish communities, the leadership in the dati leumi community is far from as effective in unifying and influencing it's constituency to anywhere near the shared level of conviction and commitment to Torah as a whole.
As important as the tzioni commitment to the people and the nation is, that element is largely shared in a very general sense with any other nation and is not necessarily an expression of a primary commitment to Torah. I'm not knocking the very many who meet that ideal - just pointing out the leadership overall is weak. For most dati leumi, it's lifestyle as much as religion and the gedolim can't take much credit even for those who do it right.
Just pointing out the challenges of leadership today in the Torah world.
This is just a lot of whataboutism and both-sideism (general society and general religious society *also* doesn't have leadership!), with a dash of declinism (things used to be so much better, we used to have *real* leaders!).
None of that is true, all the assumptions break down under basic scrutiny. Anyway, not especially relevant, it's just a red herring to distract from discussing the actual issue at hand
Well, since there is no mitzvah in the Torah for "Thou shalt be chareidi" and that's basically what these "gedolim" parrot , there's no real legs for their arguments to stand on.
There IS a mitzvah in the Torah to fight in a milchemet mitzvah for the protection of Eretz Yisrael.......
Yes, the actual arguments behind the proclamations of Gedolim are not based on rigorous analysis of Rabbinic sources or the current reality. The reason for this is that these proclamations are their public policy--namely, what they see as in the best interest of their community. From their perspective, Rabbi Slifkin's arguments are not persuasive because obviously it is better for them if their community is not (for example) burdened with army service.
This is why I believe for the first time in forever, it's appropriate to say we don't have "real" gedolim. Throughout the 20th century, this phenomenon did not exist. The gedolim were not afraid to speak and their leadership was substantive and compelling and stood up to scrutiny (sure, you had YU types occasionally writing rejoinders revealing potential weak points, but that was it).
Also, I don't think this wizard of Oz thing is entirely the fault of gedolim today - society has gone haywire and strong, principled and consistent leadership is borderline impossible. But the times have elevated the people whose personalities resonate with authority - not those who are most qualified to lead authentically al pi Torah. Although this applies only in the charedi and yeshivish communities, the leadership in the dati leumi community is far from as effective in unifying and influencing it's constituency to anywhere near the shared level of conviction and commitment to Torah as a whole.
As important as the tzioni commitment to the people and the nation is, that element is largely shared in a very general sense with any other nation and is not necessarily an expression of a primary commitment to Torah. I'm not knocking the very many who meet that ideal - just pointing out the leadership overall is weak. For most dati leumi, it's lifestyle as much as religion and the gedolim can't take much credit even for those who do it right.
Just pointing out the challenges of leadership today in the Torah world.
This is just a lot of whataboutism and both-sideism (general society and general religious society *also* doesn't have leadership!), with a dash of declinism (things used to be so much better, we used to have *real* leaders!).
None of that is true, all the assumptions break down under basic scrutiny. Anyway, not especially relevant, it's just a red herring to distract from discussing the actual issue at hand