Most of the people I know in Baltimore do not share his beliefs. Many of them have little connection to Ner Yisrael at all. It's a very diverse Jewish community. He absolutely does not speak for the entire frum community there.
Whatever the number, there are too many in Baltimore, where I also live, who share these beliefs or stay silent when they are expressed.
The lack of Hakarat HaTov for the benefits gained from the State of Israel and the sacrifices of the men and women of the IDF is a shameful example of denial of the truth.
These are difficult times, with difficult, closed minded and misguided “leaders.”
There are too many everywhere but there are probably the fewest in Baltimore than any of the bigger frum cities. And no one can speak out against the RY without fomenting destructive machlokes that just makes a bad thing worse. Blaming Baltimore is just ridiculous. Even people from the shuls that lean towards more charedi-like beliefs participate comfortably with shuls that openly promote full support for the state. It's the last community that deserves to be picked out for condemnation and, to my memory, it's the only one NS ever chose. This is not normal behavior.
I always try to express my disagreements respectfully and to acknowledge when your posts are solid. The one time I spoke harshly, many agreed with me and you referenced this in your next post and accepted the point (though you found a reason to let your first post stand without a withdrawal).
Here's my second harsh statement, in post because I live in Baltimore. What possible excuse can you come up with to deliberately attack a whole city because of one person? You acknowledge that Baltimore is generally a fine place, yet you title your post purely to spread your condemnation against one person as widely as you can to besmirch the entire city in the process. You offer literally zero justification for this and there is none.
The city of Baltimore does not follow Rav Ahron Feldman, period. An example? Rabbi Feldman opposed the rally in DC yet the schools and shuls sent droves of buses. I can tell you that even within the Yeshiva, many do not agree with his extreme charedi views and I have almost enough inside information but not quite to say the Yeshiva did not anticipate that he would be like this when he was hired and it's impossible to fire a Rosh Yeshiva.
What version of the Torah allows perfectly gratuitous lashon hara against a whole good city because of one person who lives there?
If your anger has led to this, as justifiable as it may be, you need a therapist and a break from posting. This is pure rishus.
>"What possible excuse can you come up with to deliberately attack a whole city because of one person? You acknowledge that Baltimore is generally a fine place, yet you title your post purely to spread your condemnation against one person as widely as you can to besmirch the entire city in the process. You offer literally zero justification for this and there is none."
The answer to this is spelled out right at the beginning of the post:
"Its flagship yeshiva, Ner Israel, represented the moderate American yeshiva community. Yet an interesting letter just came out of Baltimore. R. Aharon Feldman, rosh yeshivah of Ner Israel, wrote it, and it was co-signed by the more zealous of the charedi rabbinic leadership of the US."
R' Feldman isn't simply " one person", as you try to frame it, he's the Rosh yeshiva of Baltimore's main yeshiva.
"The city of Baltimore does not follow Rav Ahron Feldman, period." That's quite a statement, that requires a lot more proof than you provide.
"An example? Rabbi Feldman opposed the rally in DC yet the schools and shuls sent droves of buses." That's nice that those were sent, but don't see that as backing up your extreme claim that he has zero influence. Did the more frum schools and shuls also send buses?
In general, rabbinic leaders, and especially roshei yeshiva, tend to be more fundamentalist and right-wing than their followers. This is a basic dynamic. So if laypeople diverge in some cases, that doesn't indicate that the leadership has no influence
Do you live here? You don't know. The main girls schools, Bais Yaakov, sent all their middle and high school students and the overall feeling was the whole community was going, aside from certain pockets of the very frum that automatically listen to the Rosh Yeshiva. The Yeshiva is far from the community - too far to walk outside of bocherim walking in for simchas Torah. There is a powerful vaad harabanim that leads the city with a very different approach than his. He lived in EY for decades before coming back to be RY and is unfortunately out of touch with Baltimore, which is truly a wonderful place with a true mix of Jews interesting beautifully together. This is due to the overwhelming emphasis on shalom established by Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg and Rabbi Natalie (Herman) Neuberger. Trashing Baltimore as a city because of one letter no one else in the whole city even knew about? With zero evidence that even one Rav or even one individual from Baltimore would agree with it? Simply outrageous and gratuitous sinas chinam and lashon hara. Find me one source in Torah that allows this is even that doesn't excoriate it. Shameful. Is there not one Rabbi in bet shemesh I can use to tar the whole city? No normal person would even think of that. NS needs a therapist and a break from posting. It's as simple as that.
I'm sorry but I find your response a bit too harsh. We lived in Baltimore for almost 30 years (now living in Israel over 8 years). Both my sons learned in Ner Israel (NI) and one of my son's-in-law did too.
Most of your comments are 100% correct, valid. R' Feldman has moved NI so far to the right that today's yeshiva has virtually no relation to what the yeshiva used to be like when Rav Neuberger was alive. (I have more than one personal horror story related to NI and people I know personally.)
Your complaint is about the title of the posting. Honestly, I hadn't paid much attention to it. In retrospect, it does seem that R' Slifkin is referring to all of Baltimore but I didn't see that at first and it can easily be explained by an "outsider" not understanding today's relationship between Baltimore and NI. Your comment "NS needs a therapist and a break from posting" further down is just not acceptable. Sorry.
Than you for your response but I think you underestimate NS. He knows as well as anyone the power of a headline, he understands journalistic integrity - that you don't write something off your sufficiently knowledgeable - and he writes everything with thought and deliberation.
I would even take it a step further and compare this (in a small but not insignificant way) to classic anti semitism and other prejudices. People have a problem with Israel and blame all Jews. He has a problem with RAF and had this inexplicable and inexcusable response to blame all of the wonderful people living in Baltimore who he knows have no say and who have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to indicate any agreement.
He is taking a good city that should be a model and with the power of the tongue to destroy he is returning it into a bad city to demonize. There is no same explanation for this. He was already demonstrating borderline mental health issues with his charedi obsession but that is justified because, despite the historical perspective that makes some sense of how otherwise decent people wound up there, their position is abhorrent and causing horrendous damage to a beautiful sector of society in particular (DL) and the country in general. But his obsession is unhealthy and this crosses the line. I don't mean it in a bad way. Therapy helps a lot people dealing with anger and hatred and finding a perspective that is honest but productive. His constant hate-mongering has officially become purely gratuitous and counter productive. If every yeshivish city would be like Baltimore, the world would be a much better place. And all he can do is throw mud all over it. Why?
It continues to intrigue me how R' Slifkin's critics seem to be almost incapable of pushing back without resorting to personal attacks, gratuitous rhetorical "advice", and psychoanalysis
You've commented on a few of my comments and if you've read them over the last year or two you know my introduction to my first comment was correct. I only spoke out this way once before out of many, many dozens of comments, which are in fact always respectful and to the point, and that one time I called him out he acknowledged my critique publicly. So you're as wrong as can be about what I am incapable of.
I've openly said I support his blog (except that one time I called him out) and that he generally provides what would be an important service if it weren't steeped in destructive antagonism, which is almost always the theme of my pushbacks.
Your defenses of him would be more compelling if you'd acknowledge when and how you think he might have said something better instead of blindly supporting every word he says.
"Your defenses of him would be more compelling if you'd acknowledge when and how you think he might have said something better instead of blindly supporting every word he says."
If you've seen *my* comments over the last while, you'd see that I often push back on stuff R' Slifkin writes.
It's fine to push back (others made the same point you did, in comments here and on Facebook), the issue is that your tone here is far too harsh and very much detracts and distracts; same for the ad hominems and gratuitous "advice" and psychoanalysis
What is this letter really about? Trying to forestall American Agudah support for the compromise version, favored by Moshe Hillel Hirsch? I can't imagine that it's other than for Diaspora consumption, to influence policy here rather than in EY, to further guide American Mo'etzes towards being a branch of Peleg, rather than of Agudah Eretz Yisroel.
If I may get back into the substance of the letter in question, it raises a point that needs to be addressed much more fully: the claim that “at least half” of religious Jews who enter the IDF abandon mitzvah observance. First, let's get some hard and impartial data on this, because I find the figure hard to believe. Second, assuming for the sake of argument that it's true (or that a too large percentage, but less than half, go off the derech), let's examine why this might be so. Would it not raise a serious question about the quality of current religious education and/or family upbringing in the frum world, if mitzvah observance could be so easily blown away after a young person's exposure to army service? And what is the specific alleged problem -- does it mainly have to do, as I suspect, with male-female relations among the chayalim? If so, the issue needs to be dealt with honestly and effectively by both the religious community and Tzahal. The answer would go far beyond maintaining special conditions for Haredi units.
Most of the people I know in Baltimore do not share his beliefs. Many of them have little connection to Ner Yisrael at all. It's a very diverse Jewish community. He absolutely does not speak for the entire frum community there.
Whatever the number, there are too many in Baltimore, where I also live, who share these beliefs or stay silent when they are expressed.
The lack of Hakarat HaTov for the benefits gained from the State of Israel and the sacrifices of the men and women of the IDF is a shameful example of denial of the truth.
These are difficult times, with difficult, closed minded and misguided “leaders.”
There are too many everywhere but there are probably the fewest in Baltimore than any of the bigger frum cities. And no one can speak out against the RY without fomenting destructive machlokes that just makes a bad thing worse. Blaming Baltimore is just ridiculous. Even people from the shuls that lean towards more charedi-like beliefs participate comfortably with shuls that openly promote full support for the state. It's the last community that deserves to be picked out for condemnation and, to my memory, it's the only one NS ever chose. This is not normal behavior.
I don’t know the numbers and percentages, especially elsewhere, but you make a good point.
Ok. But how is this different than any other yeshivish community in the US?
I always try to express my disagreements respectfully and to acknowledge when your posts are solid. The one time I spoke harshly, many agreed with me and you referenced this in your next post and accepted the point (though you found a reason to let your first post stand without a withdrawal).
Here's my second harsh statement, in post because I live in Baltimore. What possible excuse can you come up with to deliberately attack a whole city because of one person? You acknowledge that Baltimore is generally a fine place, yet you title your post purely to spread your condemnation against one person as widely as you can to besmirch the entire city in the process. You offer literally zero justification for this and there is none.
The city of Baltimore does not follow Rav Ahron Feldman, period. An example? Rabbi Feldman opposed the rally in DC yet the schools and shuls sent droves of buses. I can tell you that even within the Yeshiva, many do not agree with his extreme charedi views and I have almost enough inside information but not quite to say the Yeshiva did not anticipate that he would be like this when he was hired and it's impossible to fire a Rosh Yeshiva.
What version of the Torah allows perfectly gratuitous lashon hara against a whole good city because of one person who lives there?
If your anger has led to this, as justifiable as it may be, you need a therapist and a break from posting. This is pure rishus.
Very strange critique.
>"What possible excuse can you come up with to deliberately attack a whole city because of one person? You acknowledge that Baltimore is generally a fine place, yet you title your post purely to spread your condemnation against one person as widely as you can to besmirch the entire city in the process. You offer literally zero justification for this and there is none."
The answer to this is spelled out right at the beginning of the post:
"Its flagship yeshiva, Ner Israel, represented the moderate American yeshiva community. Yet an interesting letter just came out of Baltimore. R. Aharon Feldman, rosh yeshivah of Ner Israel, wrote it, and it was co-signed by the more zealous of the charedi rabbinic leadership of the US."
R' Feldman isn't simply " one person", as you try to frame it, he's the Rosh yeshiva of Baltimore's main yeshiva.
"The city of Baltimore does not follow Rav Ahron Feldman, period." That's quite a statement, that requires a lot more proof than you provide.
"An example? Rabbi Feldman opposed the rally in DC yet the schools and shuls sent droves of buses." That's nice that those were sent, but don't see that as backing up your extreme claim that he has zero influence. Did the more frum schools and shuls also send buses?
In general, rabbinic leaders, and especially roshei yeshiva, tend to be more fundamentalist and right-wing than their followers. This is a basic dynamic. So if laypeople diverge in some cases, that doesn't indicate that the leadership has no influence
Do you live here? You don't know. The main girls schools, Bais Yaakov, sent all their middle and high school students and the overall feeling was the whole community was going, aside from certain pockets of the very frum that automatically listen to the Rosh Yeshiva. The Yeshiva is far from the community - too far to walk outside of bocherim walking in for simchas Torah. There is a powerful vaad harabanim that leads the city with a very different approach than his. He lived in EY for decades before coming back to be RY and is unfortunately out of touch with Baltimore, which is truly a wonderful place with a true mix of Jews interesting beautifully together. This is due to the overwhelming emphasis on shalom established by Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg and Rabbi Natalie (Herman) Neuberger. Trashing Baltimore as a city because of one letter no one else in the whole city even knew about? With zero evidence that even one Rav or even one individual from Baltimore would agree with it? Simply outrageous and gratuitous sinas chinam and lashon hara. Find me one source in Torah that allows this is even that doesn't excoriate it. Shameful. Is there not one Rabbi in bet shemesh I can use to tar the whole city? No normal person would even think of that. NS needs a therapist and a break from posting. It's as simple as that.
>"No normal person would even think of that. NS needs a therapist and a break from posting. It's as simple as that."
כל הפוסל במומו פוסל
See my reply to Joe Berry.
Sorry for a few autocorrects:
Mix of Jews interacting - not interesting
Rabbi Naftali - not Natalie
allows this or even - not is even
I'm sorry but I find your response a bit too harsh. We lived in Baltimore for almost 30 years (now living in Israel over 8 years). Both my sons learned in Ner Israel (NI) and one of my son's-in-law did too.
Most of your comments are 100% correct, valid. R' Feldman has moved NI so far to the right that today's yeshiva has virtually no relation to what the yeshiva used to be like when Rav Neuberger was alive. (I have more than one personal horror story related to NI and people I know personally.)
Your complaint is about the title of the posting. Honestly, I hadn't paid much attention to it. In retrospect, it does seem that R' Slifkin is referring to all of Baltimore but I didn't see that at first and it can easily be explained by an "outsider" not understanding today's relationship between Baltimore and NI. Your comment "NS needs a therapist and a break from posting" further down is just not acceptable. Sorry.
Than you for your response but I think you underestimate NS. He knows as well as anyone the power of a headline, he understands journalistic integrity - that you don't write something off your sufficiently knowledgeable - and he writes everything with thought and deliberation.
I would even take it a step further and compare this (in a small but not insignificant way) to classic anti semitism and other prejudices. People have a problem with Israel and blame all Jews. He has a problem with RAF and had this inexplicable and inexcusable response to blame all of the wonderful people living in Baltimore who he knows have no say and who have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to indicate any agreement.
He is taking a good city that should be a model and with the power of the tongue to destroy he is returning it into a bad city to demonize. There is no same explanation for this. He was already demonstrating borderline mental health issues with his charedi obsession but that is justified because, despite the historical perspective that makes some sense of how otherwise decent people wound up there, their position is abhorrent and causing horrendous damage to a beautiful sector of society in particular (DL) and the country in general. But his obsession is unhealthy and this crosses the line. I don't mean it in a bad way. Therapy helps a lot people dealing with anger and hatred and finding a perspective that is honest but productive. His constant hate-mongering has officially become purely gratuitous and counter productive. If every yeshivish city would be like Baltimore, the world would be a much better place. And all he can do is throw mud all over it. Why?
It continues to intrigue me how R' Slifkin's critics seem to be almost incapable of pushing back without resorting to personal attacks, gratuitous rhetorical "advice", and psychoanalysis
You've commented on a few of my comments and if you've read them over the last year or two you know my introduction to my first comment was correct. I only spoke out this way once before out of many, many dozens of comments, which are in fact always respectful and to the point, and that one time I called him out he acknowledged my critique publicly. So you're as wrong as can be about what I am incapable of.
I've openly said I support his blog (except that one time I called him out) and that he generally provides what would be an important service if it weren't steeped in destructive antagonism, which is almost always the theme of my pushbacks.
Your defenses of him would be more compelling if you'd acknowledge when and how you think he might have said something better instead of blindly supporting every word he says.
"Your defenses of him would be more compelling if you'd acknowledge when and how you think he might have said something better instead of blindly supporting every word he says."
If you've seen *my* comments over the last while, you'd see that I often push back on stuff R' Slifkin writes.
It's fine to push back (others made the same point you did, in comments here and on Facebook), the issue is that your tone here is far too harsh and very much detracts and distracts; same for the ad hominems and gratuitous "advice" and psychoanalysis
A few wrong autocorrects here, too:
write something unless you're - not off your
turning it into a bad city - not returning it
no sane explanation - not same explanation
What is this letter really about? Trying to forestall American Agudah support for the compromise version, favored by Moshe Hillel Hirsch? I can't imagine that it's other than for Diaspora consumption, to influence policy here rather than in EY, to further guide American Mo'etzes towards being a branch of Peleg, rather than of Agudah Eretz Yisroel.
If I may get back into the substance of the letter in question, it raises a point that needs to be addressed much more fully: the claim that “at least half” of religious Jews who enter the IDF abandon mitzvah observance. First, let's get some hard and impartial data on this, because I find the figure hard to believe. Second, assuming for the sake of argument that it's true (or that a too large percentage, but less than half, go off the derech), let's examine why this might be so. Would it not raise a serious question about the quality of current religious education and/or family upbringing in the frum world, if mitzvah observance could be so easily blown away after a young person's exposure to army service? And what is the specific alleged problem -- does it mainly have to do, as I suspect, with male-female relations among the chayalim? If so, the issue needs to be dealt with honestly and effectively by both the religious community and Tzahal. The answer would go far beyond maintaining special conditions for Haredi units.
I took the liberty to translate it into a more honest letter, that the community continue to be parasitic:
לכבוד המאור הגדול, עטרת ראשנו, הגאון המפורסם בכל תפוצות הבטלנות,
מוה"ר יצחק יוסף שליט"א,
שלום וברכת מנוחה מרובה לכבוד תורתו ושנתו.
באתי בזה להביע את הערכתי העמוקה על עמידתו האיתנה והברורה בענייני הבטלה,
שאסור לאדם ליגע חלילה ולקלקל את מנוחת גופו הקדוש בעמל מיותר.
וכמו שהניסיון הוכיח, כל הנכנס למלאכה — דעתו נטרפת עליו מיד,
ומתמכר חס ושלום לעשייה, שהיא ההיפך הגמור מרוח ישראל סבא.
עמדת כת"ר, אשר קבע מסמרות באידישקייט הבטלנית, היא העמדה היחידה
שאינה דורשת מאמץ כלל, ולכן היא האמת הצרופה.
והנני מברך את כת"ר שימשיך להורות לרבים איך להימנע מכל תזוזה שאינה הכרחית,
ולהתחזק במלחמת הקודש נגד אלה המעיזים להציע "תעסוקה", "יוזמה",
או שאר מיני דברים משובשים.
יה"ר שהקב"ה יזכה את כת"ר להמשיך להנהיג את עדת ה"נוחי־נפש" במתיקות מנוחה
ומתוך הרחבת דעת, כדרך שאין בה עשייה כלל.
ושימשיך להרים את נס הבטלה הטהורה עד ביאת הגואל.
פלדמן וווכטפוגל, ליצני הדור ™®©
https://matzav.com/rav-aharon-feldman-expresses-support-to-rav-yitzchok-yosef-in-strongly-worded-letter-on-the-draft-crisis/