I think the best way to respond to requests for donations from Charedi institutions is to tell them that you will learn for the success of institution.
Although since Oct 7th war they have been fewer and fewer, still kapote clad charedim occasionally knock on my door soliciting a donation. Over the past two years I ask my supplicants if they have a "Pichas Mileuim" (Reserve Armed Forces document. Invariably they do not. I politely inform them that when they do earn such a document, then 'maybe' I"ll consider giving them a donation.
I don't think the "persecution of charedim" is referring to taking away the money from them. From what I understand, the charedim aren't that particularly concerned; the American charedim will step up and fund the Israeli charedim.
The term used by the חרדי media for the cancelling of daycare subsidies is "גזירת המעונות" or even "גזירת המעונות האכזרית". Sounds like they consider it persecution.
"the American charedim will step up and fund the Israeli charedim."
Where are the numbers? How much needed to be raised to make up the difference? How much was raised?
The arrest may indeed be a more pressing issue, but it's not the only issue.
2) You forget the distinction between השתדלות and בטחון. That is: בטחון is for me & השתדלות is for you. So someone in kollel is required to do בטחון in regards to those who are in the army. And those outside of the kollel must do their השתדלות by supporting the kollel.
More seriously, I suspect that תמיהני אם יש בדור הזה שיודע להוכיח applies here.
I appreciate all the attention you are bringing to this important matter. I won’t give Tzedaka to any organisation that does not support our chayalim or the families who have been severely affected by the war. The elections are coming up, I really hope and pray people elect new leadership and throw this corrupt government and Bibi out of office. He’s done nothing but enable Charedi intransigence with their rioting. It’s such a Chilul Hashem. The country and the people deserve better. My friends who have sons and daughters serving in the IDF are fed up with what’s going on.
There was an interesting study done on haredi welfare payments. If I understood it correctly it says that welfare makes sense if you assume the beneficiaries are trying to get out of poverty, and there are several ways to tell if the beneficiaries are actually poor.
But haredi society dont meet these two criteria, so the welfare payments are neither fair, nor effective.
Thank you for your article. It breaks my heart to read about how those who claim to tremble before Hashem have no problem violating basic laws of the Torah. Stealing, lying, cheating, taking bribes under the rubric of “coalition allocations”, Lashon Hara, rechilut, violence against other Jews, the list goes on and on.
The only way to stop this is to clean up the government and the governing system. Eliminate special perks for ANY group. Insist on service for all and equal consequences for ANYONE who does not serve (I prefer taking away the right to vote from anyone who does not serve regardless of what camp they are from). Make coalition allocations illegal. Rigorous checks on in organizations that receive government funding be they youth groups, kollels or schools.
Most importantly do not vote for any party that would include Haredim in a coalition. If you do you are bringing all of this upon yourself.
I don't think the vast majority of Chareidim steal money, but that doesn't change the fact that the scandals are more prevalent there - not because they are more wicked or 'othered' but because they don't have access or the ability to work which as Chazal teach us causes an increase in scams.
One thing that worries me about the post is the way it is written. Obviously not all Chareidim do this. But imagine I replaced Chareidim with Jews. It would still be 100% true but also blatantly anti-semitic. I think a disclaimer of not all, no matter how obvious, is in order.
"imagine I replaced Chareidim with Jews. It would still be 100% true." No, it wouldn't. Fraud exists everywhere, but there is no systemic way in which Jews as a group take money from non-Jews. Most of my post was not about "scams" per se but rather about systemic ways that charedi MKs and institutions game taxpayer funds as per charedi attitudes.
Isn’t one of the greatest tragedies of our age that some parts of the jewish community embrace the worst behaviors that we have been accused of? Have normalized this kind of behavior?
I've actually noticed this recently - the גמרא says, an Apikores is someone who says מאי אהני לן רבנן, "what have the rabbis ever done for us". Somehow, over the years, this has been taken as an excuse for a rabbi to do whatever he wants, and when he's accused of wrongdoing, his response is "you're an apikores, because you said מאי אהני לן רבנן".
The same thing happened with the "antisemitic tropes". Someone figured out at some point that since there's a trope that Jews swindle money, they can just do it and claim that when people complain about it, it's just antisemitism.
Another tragedy is, this has taught many people to lose internal red lines. This is a very expensive and difficult country to live in. It’s really hard to blame people for doing things in the gray in order to survive. Having said that, some people don’t understand what the idea of immoral behavior in these areas is anymore. there’s a long distance from a babysitter, taking payments in cash to the terrible place we got to today. I think the fraud issue with disabled passes is a great example.
Just go to daled and see all the cars. You need at the least the average income In Israel to afford any car let alone all the seven seaters and whatnot you see there. and these are not the people from multigenerational family businesses who decided to start wearing a white shirt because of shas schools
There's an important point which appears to me was inadequately addressed, namely the sentence regarding, quote,: a completely false narrative of there being “persecution of charedim” as part of “a war against Torah,” whereas in fact it’s just a matter of Israel finally somewhat enforcing laws that apply to everyone.
True, Israel must start somewhere when it comes to enforcing laws that apply to everyone. Can we honestly say, though, that it's not being overzealous about enforcing laws that apply to charedim while, at the same time, turning a blind eye to Israeli Arabs who don't serve in the military? Is Israel not exercising similar discrimination when it gives Israeli(!) Arabs entitlements while also legally(!?) absolving them of the important civil responsibility of army service? Should this be considered having one's priorities straight?
I'm not trying to use the Israeli Arab issue as a cover for distracting from the charedi issue. I'm simply wondering if it wouldn't be proportionate to have some sort of reference to the Israeli Arab issue as well when we discuss the Israeli Charedi issue. Certainly, if going so far as to state that "it’s just a matter of Israel finally somewhat enforcing laws that apply to everyone."
This a great post. Should be spread far and wide. The Chareidim could be put to use so much better than what the case is right now. We need to overhaul everything and create a better State.
In fairness, "it's time to" in both English and Hebrew can mean "You never should have been doing this and you really should stop now."
Stories about health issues are always a red flag. Israel's health system pays for most anything and will even fly people abroad for treatment. Granted there are rare cases where people will try to raise money for treatments not on the list, but it's rare.
We get phone call solicitations way too often for all sorts of tzadaka organizations. For even those whose names we recognize and consider worthwhile donating to, we always say that we will only donate via an official web site that we can view (and check out). Be careful about giving your credit card or bank info to anyone over the phone. It's very hard to know if it's legit.
Also check out what percentage goes to the needy. I've seen charities with 50% overhead. Those glossy flyers aren't free. Are these charities or employment agencies?
Thank you for your summary of these issues. As an olah hadasha, I read the news and see a lot of the controversies play out in the media, but sometimes I don’t entirely understand the situation. This provides interesting background information.
I boil this down to a simple principle: If you don't work, you don't eat. If you don't serve, you don't get government supports. It is wildly unfair of one community to take royal advantage of the rest of the country. As far as I'm concerned, it is unfair by any metric. Why should someone else's child risk their life, so yours can sit and study? The Haredi community is now 12.5 percent of the Israeli population (ish) and expected to be 16% by 2030. That is almost a fifth of the population of a very small country. It is just unfair in so many ways.
The proportional representation system inadvertently encourages this behavior. It’s not observance or the communities, but institution capture. They are needed in coalitions so they make the rules on what constitutes Judaism legally and they decide who runs the Chief Rabbinate. If the metaphysical purpose of existence is Torah study, the scams are seen as a necessary evil.
They’ve got to get their house in order and make sure Gentiles are not disrespected. You can’t study Torah if you’re dead, so that means army service. If Israel is going to have a Chief Rabbinate, then the Rabbi should be symbol of Judaism’s benelovence and goodwill like a Jonathan Sacks. Instead, the money and dynastic hoarding surrounding the position produces hateful medieval assclowns like Ovadia Yosef.
How come you pretty much only comment on Charedim. You never write about the left and the huge population that manages to avoid the draft from that population
Reb Elchonon Wasserman and other Gedolim used to travel to America to raise money before the war. And it takes alot of siyata dishmaya to raise the amounts they raise not to mention all the gatherings where men and young boys get the chance to see some of the kovod hatorah. And to be honest I’m not even Charedi. I just know when someone is coming from a emese place or when it’s just lots of anger and resentment coming out through the pen.
I think the best way to respond to requests for donations from Charedi institutions is to tell them that you will learn for the success of institution.
Although since Oct 7th war they have been fewer and fewer, still kapote clad charedim occasionally knock on my door soliciting a donation. Over the past two years I ask my supplicants if they have a "Pichas Mileuim" (Reserve Armed Forces document. Invariably they do not. I politely inform them that when they do earn such a document, then 'maybe' I"ll consider giving them a donation.
I don't think the "persecution of charedim" is referring to taking away the money from them. From what I understand, the charedim aren't that particularly concerned; the American charedim will step up and fund the Israeli charedim.
The issue is the arrests of yeshiva students.
Depends which group within the Charedim world.
The term used by the חרדי media for the cancelling of daycare subsidies is "גזירת המעונות" or even "גזירת המעונות האכזרית". Sounds like they consider it persecution.
"the American charedim will step up and fund the Israeli charedim."
Where are the numbers? How much needed to be raised to make up the difference? How much was raised?
The arrest may indeed be a more pressing issue, but it's not the only issue.
1) Your learning doesn't count
2) You forget the distinction between השתדלות and בטחון. That is: בטחון is for me & השתדלות is for you. So someone in kollel is required to do בטחון in regards to those who are in the army. And those outside of the kollel must do their השתדלות by supporting the kollel.
More seriously, I suspect that תמיהני אם יש בדור הזה שיודע להוכיח applies here.
1) That's their problem, not mine.
2) No, I didn't forget. Again, that's their problem.
I appreciate all the attention you are bringing to this important matter. I won’t give Tzedaka to any organisation that does not support our chayalim or the families who have been severely affected by the war. The elections are coming up, I really hope and pray people elect new leadership and throw this corrupt government and Bibi out of office. He’s done nothing but enable Charedi intransigence with their rioting. It’s such a Chilul Hashem. The country and the people deserve better. My friends who have sons and daughters serving in the IDF are fed up with what’s going on.
There was an interesting study done on haredi welfare payments. If I understood it correctly it says that welfare makes sense if you assume the beneficiaries are trying to get out of poverty, and there are several ways to tell if the beneficiaries are actually poor.
But haredi society dont meet these two criteria, so the welfare payments are neither fair, nor effective.
Here's the study.
https://www.calcalist.co.il/local_news/article/b1kpqraxmx
Thank you for your article. It breaks my heart to read about how those who claim to tremble before Hashem have no problem violating basic laws of the Torah. Stealing, lying, cheating, taking bribes under the rubric of “coalition allocations”, Lashon Hara, rechilut, violence against other Jews, the list goes on and on.
The only way to stop this is to clean up the government and the governing system. Eliminate special perks for ANY group. Insist on service for all and equal consequences for ANYONE who does not serve (I prefer taking away the right to vote from anyone who does not serve regardless of what camp they are from). Make coalition allocations illegal. Rigorous checks on in organizations that receive government funding be they youth groups, kollels or schools.
Most importantly do not vote for any party that would include Haredim in a coalition. If you do you are bringing all of this upon yourself.
I beat your post by three minutes.
https://daastorah.substack.com/p/on-giving-in-to-terrorists-iran-and?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=33pit
I think you may like it for a change.
I don't think the vast majority of Chareidim steal money, but that doesn't change the fact that the scandals are more prevalent there - not because they are more wicked or 'othered' but because they don't have access or the ability to work which as Chazal teach us causes an increase in scams.
One thing that worries me about the post is the way it is written. Obviously not all Chareidim do this. But imagine I replaced Chareidim with Jews. It would still be 100% true but also blatantly anti-semitic. I think a disclaimer of not all, no matter how obvious, is in order.
"imagine I replaced Chareidim with Jews. It would still be 100% true." No, it wouldn't. Fraud exists everywhere, but there is no systemic way in which Jews as a group take money from non-Jews. Most of my post was not about "scams" per se but rather about systemic ways that charedi MKs and institutions game taxpayer funds as per charedi attitudes.
Isn’t one of the greatest tragedies of our age that some parts of the jewish community embrace the worst behaviors that we have been accused of? Have normalized this kind of behavior?
I've actually noticed this recently - the גמרא says, an Apikores is someone who says מאי אהני לן רבנן, "what have the rabbis ever done for us". Somehow, over the years, this has been taken as an excuse for a rabbi to do whatever he wants, and when he's accused of wrongdoing, his response is "you're an apikores, because you said מאי אהני לן רבנן".
The same thing happened with the "antisemitic tropes". Someone figured out at some point that since there's a trope that Jews swindle money, they can just do it and claim that when people complain about it, it's just antisemitism.
Thats basically whats going in Israel right now.
Another tragedy is, this has taught many people to lose internal red lines. This is a very expensive and difficult country to live in. It’s really hard to blame people for doing things in the gray in order to survive. Having said that, some people don’t understand what the idea of immoral behavior in these areas is anymore. there’s a long distance from a babysitter, taking payments in cash to the terrible place we got to today. I think the fraud issue with disabled passes is a great example.
Or taking buses without paying.
Straight out גזל.
Just go to daled and see all the cars. You need at the least the average income In Israel to afford any car let alone all the seven seaters and whatnot you see there. and these are not the people from multigenerational family businesses who decided to start wearing a white shirt because of shas schools
There's an important point which appears to me was inadequately addressed, namely the sentence regarding, quote,: a completely false narrative of there being “persecution of charedim” as part of “a war against Torah,” whereas in fact it’s just a matter of Israel finally somewhat enforcing laws that apply to everyone.
True, Israel must start somewhere when it comes to enforcing laws that apply to everyone. Can we honestly say, though, that it's not being overzealous about enforcing laws that apply to charedim while, at the same time, turning a blind eye to Israeli Arabs who don't serve in the military? Is Israel not exercising similar discrimination when it gives Israeli(!) Arabs entitlements while also legally(!?) absolving them of the important civil responsibility of army service? Should this be considered having one's priorities straight?
I'm not trying to use the Israeli Arab issue as a cover for distracting from the charedi issue. I'm simply wondering if it wouldn't be proportionate to have some sort of reference to the Israeli Arab issue as well when we discuss the Israeli Charedi issue. Certainly, if going so far as to state that "it’s just a matter of Israel finally somewhat enforcing laws that apply to everyone."
Also a great post to share, on a topic you haven't really touched on:
https://deconstructionistjew.substack.com/p/why-they-keep-blocking-the-roads?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=33pit
This a great post. Should be spread far and wide. The Chareidim could be put to use so much better than what the case is right now. We need to overhaul everything and create a better State.
In fairness, "it's time to" in both English and Hebrew can mean "You never should have been doing this and you really should stop now."
Stories about health issues are always a red flag. Israel's health system pays for most anything and will even fly people abroad for treatment. Granted there are rare cases where people will try to raise money for treatments not on the list, but it's rare.
Marginally related to this blog entry...
We get phone call solicitations way too often for all sorts of tzadaka organizations. For even those whose names we recognize and consider worthwhile donating to, we always say that we will only donate via an official web site that we can view (and check out). Be careful about giving your credit card or bank info to anyone over the phone. It's very hard to know if it's legit.
Also check out what percentage goes to the needy. I've seen charities with 50% overhead. Those glossy flyers aren't free. Are these charities or employment agencies?
Thank you for your summary of these issues. As an olah hadasha, I read the news and see a lot of the controversies play out in the media, but sometimes I don’t entirely understand the situation. This provides interesting background information.
I boil this down to a simple principle: If you don't work, you don't eat. If you don't serve, you don't get government supports. It is wildly unfair of one community to take royal advantage of the rest of the country. As far as I'm concerned, it is unfair by any metric. Why should someone else's child risk their life, so yours can sit and study? The Haredi community is now 12.5 percent of the Israeli population (ish) and expected to be 16% by 2030. That is almost a fifth of the population of a very small country. It is just unfair in so many ways.
The proportional representation system inadvertently encourages this behavior. It’s not observance or the communities, but institution capture. They are needed in coalitions so they make the rules on what constitutes Judaism legally and they decide who runs the Chief Rabbinate. If the metaphysical purpose of existence is Torah study, the scams are seen as a necessary evil.
They’ve got to get their house in order and make sure Gentiles are not disrespected. You can’t study Torah if you’re dead, so that means army service. If Israel is going to have a Chief Rabbinate, then the Rabbi should be symbol of Judaism’s benelovence and goodwill like a Jonathan Sacks. Instead, the money and dynastic hoarding surrounding the position produces hateful medieval assclowns like Ovadia Yosef.
Five Town Central on What's App reports -
*Ashreinu:* The Gedolim on their global visit from Eretz Yisrael in the 5 Towns this morning at the home of the Wolmark mishpacha.
Hagaon Harav Don Segal discussing the Siyata Dishmaya one receives when they support Torah.
Also, Hagaon Harav Dov Landau talking about the collective Neshama of Am Yisrael being one body.
---
Don't the Gedolim get siyata d'Shmaya? Why is Hashem making them leave their yeshivos and schlepp to America?
At least your not being עובר לא תשנא את אחיך בלבבך
How come you pretty much only comment on Charedim. You never write about the left and the huge population that manages to avoid the draft from that population
You have been brainwashed by typical charedi disinformation. (Don't worry, so was I, once upon a time!) https://www.rationalistjudaism.com/p/tel-avivians-dont-serve
" the huge population"
1) It's not huge. Show me the numbers and compare the two populations.
2) In any case, the הלכה is : במלחמת מצוה הכל יוצאין
There is no halachic argument that the failure of one group to accept the yoke of מצות frees the other group. ערבות במצות doesn't work that way.
Another reason not to join the army
Heresy
He always has a lot of logic. But underlying is hate. Cuz they didn’t like the books he wrote 25 years ago
Lol. Yeah, that's what I'm mad about, them kickstarting my career! Not my son being stuck in Lebanon for half his life!
I hear that. I do. Maybe go back to being charedi and your son can learn all day. Or not.
what, and make things even harder for everyone else? Wouldn't that be rather selfish?
To be מזכה America with having the presence of gedolim. Your hate for charedim is literally abominable
Maybe you can address the points R Slifkin raises in the post?
Reb Elchonon Wasserman and other Gedolim used to travel to America to raise money before the war. And it takes alot of siyata dishmaya to raise the amounts they raise not to mention all the gatherings where men and young boys get the chance to see some of the kovod hatorah. And to be honest I’m not even Charedi. I just know when someone is coming from a emese place or when it’s just lots of anger and resentment coming out through the pen.
"Hagaon Harav Don Segal discussing the Siyata Dishmaya one receives when they support Torah."
Unless it's Mercaz HaRav.
https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3518281,00.html
That’s intense. What happened in Mercaz Harav all those years ago?
Terrorist massacre. Most victims were teenagers.