"The entire rest of the country, including many deeply religious Jews, as well as many people within the charedi world (including such figures as Jonathan Rosenblum, a former devotee of Rav Feldman), have taken a very different message."
One message I took from the events of October 7th was how grateful we should be to the young ladies serving as lookouts on the Gaza Border. If their warnings would have been heeded, the damage from October 7th would have been much less.
They warned of Gazans experimenting with explosives on the border fence, to see how much they need to break through. They warned about suspicious training exercises that the Hamas terrorists were engaging in prior to the infiltration. And at some locations, they made up the majority of soldiers who were either killed or taken hostage.
It's really in their merit that we can open a sefer and learn without worries. We took it for granted that Hamas wouldn't try anything of that scale.
With all due respect I completely disagree with this article.
1. First, you're asserting an argument against R. Feldman which is just you projecting an opinion - he prefaced his remarks that he is NOT a prophet. What that means to me, unbiased I believe, is that it's an opinion from an individual rabbi and he's not making a claim to divine knowledge. That said, he's certainly entitled to an opinion of what the message of October 7th, just as you have a very strong opinion of what that message was AND wasn't.
2. Which brings me to the 2nd problem with the article - why is your technology/boots opinion for certain the only reason for 10.7 on a non-divine plain and why is your opinion that it is NOT for divine reasons also the only acceptable opinion? It sounds very similar to the issue you've taken against R. Feldman - an assertion that you're correct without you being prophetic. While on the non-divine side, certainly over dependency on technology was a CONTRIBUTING factor, there may be many other still known and unknown reasons. For example, we know that the chain of command was horrible and leadership completely dismissive of concerns noted by the few boots that WERE on the ground. That's arrogance and incompetence.
3. And on the divine side, where did you come up with this theory that Divine messages are only those that are clear and received? That flies in the face of so many prophecies, open and outright messages, that were completely ignored by their intended audience! It's a bizarre notion really.
4. The idea that because there are more religious Jews today in Israel means that God can't be sending messages to those that aren't is also without logic or foundation. There are so many simple explanations for that. First, today's anti-religious are virulent against religion, perhaps alot more than those who were simply irreligious decades ago. There are many who fight against the very notion today that Israel should be bound to religious Judaism at all. Historically this seems more extreme than the first Zionists. Second, perhaps for the very reason tgat we're more religious today we are getting messages that would have been entirely irrelevant decades ago. Today the religious people are getting to a stage where they have actual say in the future of the country and perhaps that makes it even more important that tgere are Divine messages that refuse to pay attention to God. I can come up with many more explanations. The point is, that the idea that today there are more religious people is de facto proof tgat the message cannot be aimed at the non-religious is just your opinion again.
To be honest, I've noticed a strong bias in your writing. Your clearly brilliant. You're someone I agree with many times. I even agree with the whole kollel and draft issues. However, I believe you're so passionate about this issue that you're having trouble using your brilliance and intuition tonsee clearly whenever anything comes even near this topic. Relax. R. Feldman is a very special man. His message is a fine one. There are a not inconsequential minority of Israelis today that hate Judaism and the religious and many of them were absolutely using judicial reform to try and fight against the perceived inflection point where the country becomes more institutionally religious than secular.
"But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you... The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth."
I dont understand why religous jews of all different groups try to explain why God did or did not do something. It says in the neviim that God not "think" like a human being. The only thing that we can do is to look at ourselves and do better. It is an opportunity to do teshuvah. What God does, He does. We praise Him for the good (Shehechyany, Hatov umativ) and for the bad (Dayan Emes). It also says in neviim that God created evil as well. And let us be reminded that we are promised the land of Israel only if we observe His commandments. Otherwise, we can be thrownout of the land.
So stop second guessing why something good or bad happened. Just constantly try and improve yourself and the community. Leave the rest to God. He is the Truth.
Fatal combination of absolute self-confidence (arrogance) and utter ignorance. Already in the first paragraph, about how the breech occurred. Hamas had sophisticated weapons of cyberwarfare, intelligence, and quadcopters with powerful IED's that jammed surveillance cameras and destroyed electrical generators and surveillance towers, along with killing the young women who were staffing them. Ironically, in addition, IDF Intelligence was suffering from the same hubris and cognitive bias that Rav Feldman himself demonstrates in his simplistic and self-serving "analysis."
A notable result of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was to blame the other, including God: "The woman you gave me (you, God) she gave me to eat"; "The snake tempted me." But the snake that did not eat from the tree of knowledge did not blame the other but took responsibility for his actions. Therefore, this is what God requires of me: to check, what I should do so that such a disaster does not happen again. To blame the whole world except myself - is to eat from the tree of knowledge and evil
The absolute stupidity of claiming to know God's message is beyond comprehension. Why any Charedi person would hold this man to be his or her Rav is simply unbelievable. If you had a niggling feeling before that maybe something wasn't right with his outlook/hashkafa/personage, this should confirm it for you.
I've said this before: by definition, anyone who is truly a "gadol" would be someone with the quality of anivut. Willingly accepting an invitation to join a body whose name actually declares you to be a gadol? That itself makes one NOT a gadol. (The whole contemporary concept of gedolim is nonsense anyway).
No your comment was very clear. What wasn't clear is that you aren't disagreeing with anything I wrote. I was responding to David who originally thought that being a member of the Moetzes automatically means you're not a "gadol".
According to the Halacha, testimony that you cannot undermine is not testimony. Therefore, irrational claims and testimony like Rabbi Feldman's words are not worthy of consideration at all.
People who continually seek to see Hashem less in events instead of trying to see Him more, especially with large scale events....which is openly against Torah...the types always accusing people of pretending to be prophets...types that always look for the natural reason and exclude divine intervention...they are the ones who cause more retribution chv. This idea is put forth by the great rationalist Rambam.
"However, he continues, if there were prophets, then he knows what they would say."
This line is so intellectually dishonest. Adding in the phrase "he KNOWS what they would say" instead of what he actually does say, "יש מקום להניח" really calls into question your academic integrity.
"It appears in Hebrew on an Israeli charedi website with the title, “A Sage is Superior to a Prophet.” "
That's ironic - using chochma generally means to utilize reason, experience and common sense (tools available to every human being incidentally) to analyze a given phenomena or situation.
FYI, this article of Rav Feldman was intended primarily for a secular Israeli audience. Rav Feldman is fearful that we are headed towards an apocalypse, and that all will be lost if Klal Yisrael does not mend its ways. While he certainly has no lack of criticism for flaws in his own community, the existence of a State of Israel where hundreds of thousands of Jews have publicly cast off the yoke of Heaven has created a situation of mortal danger. He believes it possible that at this time of national despair, a certain segment of the populace might be open to reassessing their attitudes towards G-d and Torah, and recognize how powerless we are without HIm. The article is not addressed towards cynical people who are moderately observant and have a kneejerk reaction against anything Haredi.
" the existence of a State of Israel where hundreds of thousands of Jews have publicly cast off the yoke of Heaven has created a situation of mortal danger.|"
Huh? The state is more religious than ever before!
While it is true that many individual people are observant, and their percentage is indeed growing, R. Feldman is referring to the national identity and overarching ideology of the State. As Rambam and others make clear, there are two facets of Divine providence, one affecting the individual, and a broader Hashgacha addressing the nation as a whole.
He wasn't talking to a secular audience, he was talking to his own people.
And if he *thought* he was talking to secular audience, well, obviously his message will never reach them. (Indeed, it would be *better* if it didn't.) If it did, it would almost certainly have no effect. Maybe if he was a Sephardi, talking to Edot Mizrach. But he's not, and he's not.
I dont think anyone in Israel will take him seriously, as he's not well known here. He can have a say once he moves here and enters the conersation. Till then hes preaching to a chareidi quoire who should be the object of his rebuke. My rosh yeshiva focused on our own communites flaws. He didnt blame everyone but himself.
No one in the secular world give a hoot about what he says. and thios statement will hardly cause people to take him morseriously. No this is not aimed at secular zionists and the calim that it is, is pure appolgetics- Gedolim-splianing. Only charedim care about what RAF says and he knows that very well. The purpose of the speech is to make charedim feel good about themselves and maintain their scorn for Zionism in all forms. though I have no doubt that RAF beleives what he says.
"And yet the country was much more secular than it is now!"
It's important to recall that, in Jewish tradition, God is characterized by patience. The punishments described in the Torah aren't immediate or complete, bu gradual:
"The Lord will send the curse of shortages, confusion, and turmoil upon you, in every one of your endeavors which you undertake, until it destroys you and until you quickly vanish, because of your evil deeds in forsaking Me".
The Tanach provides numerous examples where a minority breaking commandments causes epidemics and punishments for the entire nation. Additionally, in modern Israel, Sabbath violations are much more widespread than in the past. Isn't this grounds for significant punishment?
What time to they light these shabbos candles? Much of anglo jewry traditionally light shabbos candles when dad comes home from work, maybe seven in the winter.....
You missed the point. I already noted, "Now, these numbers don't address "Sabbath violations" per se. "
So again, it would be nice if Shaul would back up his claims with some figures. The trend is that there has been a return to tradition, and the numbers of radical anti-religious secular types are decreasing.
מתוך 43 בתי הקולנוע החברים בהתאחדות ענף הקולנוע, נמצא כי 42
פועלים בשבת, כך ש98%- מבתי הקולנוע פתוחים בשבת. למעשה, סינמה
סיטי בירושלים הוא בית הקולנוע היחיד שאינו פועל בשבת.
Moreover, my recollection of Israel from the early 90s is vivid: locating an open restaurant or store required exhaustive searching in industrial zones on the periphery. Contrastingly, nowadays, businesses thrive seamlessly in urban and central areas.
One single data point doesn't make a trend. You refer to 42 venues in a country of 7 million Jews. That's not evidence of "more widespread than in the past".
If you noticed, I referenced a detailed report that highlights Sabbath violations across different sectors—such as commerce, entertainment, and public transportation. It's logical to assume that the malls, shops, restaurants, and cinemas open on Saturdays attract hundreds of thousands of Israelis.
This is not to mention the growing number of other violations, such as interfaith marriages.
I had to look up the Tifrach Yeshiva. It's dangerously close to the border, sure, but no more so- and sometimes much further- than other places that were also untouched. Am I uninformed of something that he might mention it specifically, or is it just the closest charedi yishuv to Gaza?
In any event, this fails the usual test: If one plans to ascribe a disaster to a lack of following the will of God- which, of course, is a fundamental of Judaism, right there in the Torah- then the first step is to look at *oneself* before looking at others. This should be done if only because it is far easier to change oneself than to change others, not to mention of course that it is a far more pleasant way of acting. Is Feldman claiming that not only he but every single religious Jew is so perfect that they can immediately leap to finding fault in others? Newsflash: They (we) ain't. For starters, while I am second to no one in saying (for personal even more than political reasons) that the protesters in the streets- even last night!- are a bunch of jerks and idiots who, yes, may well be endangering the State and may well have given Hamas ideas (not that Hamas needs any ideas, let's be honest), and, what the heck, maybe Feldman is right and the anti-religion stuff played a big part there (I mean, *of course* it did- all one had to see was the sheer number of gay, trans, and other such flags at every. single. protest, and hear the number of times people- even some with kippot!- screamed at me about "theocracy!"), I'll tell you one thing about every last one of those protesters: THEY SURE DON'T LIVE IN BALTIMORE. Does Feldman think Jews have to do teshuva? He can start looking at the nearest flagpole and see what's on it.
(Oh, and if he really wants Israel to be more religious, and it's not just some excuse? Well, Israel has elections. More voters for your side, your side has more influence. How many people listen to what he and his fellow American gedolim say, or claim to? Tell them to get on a plane.)
I'm going to pontificate a bit more, because there's a more serious issue here: People tend to live in their paradigms, which is often the facts they grew up in. For example, for about a century Jews around the world have thought of American Jewry as being the most influential Jewish community- that is, within the worldwide Jewish community- in the world. And since World War II, that's also be true of simple numbers- a majority of Jews in the world lived in the United States.
Now, neither of those things has been true for a while. But most Jews in the world, even in Israel, continue to think it's true.
Another example would be within American Jewry: Since about the end of World War II, people have had an idea that about half of American Jews are Conservative and most of the rest Reform. Because it was true then. It also hasn't been true for a while: The three major denominations today each account for about 10% of American Jews, which is very, very different from the above picture. But Jews worldwide still think it's true.
And that brings us to Israel: For decades, people had this image that Israeli Jews were about 90% "secular" and the rest religious, and that Israel was some sort of hedonistic, atheist country completely disconnected from Judaism. Now, this was never true, and in the last few decades we've had solid evidence that it's very much not true, and in that time it's gotten less and less true. And I think a lot of Israelis sense this, or even know it. But you know who doesn't know it? People who live in charedi bubbles, or people who live outside Israel, or people raised to have a dislike of Israel as some sort of Babylon. Feldman? Check, check, check. And so we've got, in his eyes, the pure and holy charedi world on the one hand, and the godless heathens of the rest of Israel on the other (let's just ignore all the other dati Israelis, too inconvenient), and so he just *knows* who's to blame, and it ain't his camp. Amazing how that works out.
"If one plans to ascribe a disaster to a lack of following the will of God- which, of course, is a fundamental of Judaism, right there in the Torah- then the first step is to look at *oneself* before looking at others."
Every single calamity is blamed on the same bugaboos and pet peeves. Typical diagnoses: internet and modesty. שבת. The draft. The exception would be if the victims are דעתי לאומי Torah True Jews- in which case it's because of שלוש שבועות. It's rarely attributed to sins בין אדם לחבירו.
What's also odd is the myopic focus on the thuggish opposition to the mass תפילת נעילה on יום כפור. Why not focus on the myriads who went out to daven, and not the fanatics who opposed them? Why not focus on secular journalists who spoke out against the thuggery?
On a personal note. Rav Feldman lived in Israel for more thatn forty years, moving here a few years after his marriage. His eight children, and more than one hundred and fifty offspring, all live in Israel. He returned to the USA only in 2001, at the age of 70, when asked to take the helm of Ner Israel after the passing of the prior Roshei Yeshiva.
Well, the children are a big point in the plus column. I don't think my ultimate point changes, though. There are still five million or so Jews in America, of whom at least a couple of hundred thousand are charedim.
"The entire rest of the country, including many deeply religious Jews, as well as many people within the charedi world (including such figures as Jonathan Rosenblum, a former devotee of Rav Feldman), have taken a very different message."
One message I took from the events of October 7th was how grateful we should be to the young ladies serving as lookouts on the Gaza Border. If their warnings would have been heeded, the damage from October 7th would have been much less.
They warned of Gazans experimenting with explosives on the border fence, to see how much they need to break through. They warned about suspicious training exercises that the Hamas terrorists were engaging in prior to the infiltration. And at some locations, they made up the majority of soldiers who were either killed or taken hostage.
It's really in their merit that we can open a sefer and learn without worries. We took it for granted that Hamas wouldn't try anything of that scale.
And the Har Nof terror attack which ONLY killed chareidim?
Sheitels, duh.
With all due respect I completely disagree with this article.
1. First, you're asserting an argument against R. Feldman which is just you projecting an opinion - he prefaced his remarks that he is NOT a prophet. What that means to me, unbiased I believe, is that it's an opinion from an individual rabbi and he's not making a claim to divine knowledge. That said, he's certainly entitled to an opinion of what the message of October 7th, just as you have a very strong opinion of what that message was AND wasn't.
2. Which brings me to the 2nd problem with the article - why is your technology/boots opinion for certain the only reason for 10.7 on a non-divine plain and why is your opinion that it is NOT for divine reasons also the only acceptable opinion? It sounds very similar to the issue you've taken against R. Feldman - an assertion that you're correct without you being prophetic. While on the non-divine side, certainly over dependency on technology was a CONTRIBUTING factor, there may be many other still known and unknown reasons. For example, we know that the chain of command was horrible and leadership completely dismissive of concerns noted by the few boots that WERE on the ground. That's arrogance and incompetence.
3. And on the divine side, where did you come up with this theory that Divine messages are only those that are clear and received? That flies in the face of so many prophecies, open and outright messages, that were completely ignored by their intended audience! It's a bizarre notion really.
4. The idea that because there are more religious Jews today in Israel means that God can't be sending messages to those that aren't is also without logic or foundation. There are so many simple explanations for that. First, today's anti-religious are virulent against religion, perhaps alot more than those who were simply irreligious decades ago. There are many who fight against the very notion today that Israel should be bound to religious Judaism at all. Historically this seems more extreme than the first Zionists. Second, perhaps for the very reason tgat we're more religious today we are getting messages that would have been entirely irrelevant decades ago. Today the religious people are getting to a stage where they have actual say in the future of the country and perhaps that makes it even more important that tgere are Divine messages that refuse to pay attention to God. I can come up with many more explanations. The point is, that the idea that today there are more religious people is de facto proof tgat the message cannot be aimed at the non-religious is just your opinion again.
To be honest, I've noticed a strong bias in your writing. Your clearly brilliant. You're someone I agree with many times. I even agree with the whole kollel and draft issues. However, I believe you're so passionate about this issue that you're having trouble using your brilliance and intuition tonsee clearly whenever anything comes even near this topic. Relax. R. Feldman is a very special man. His message is a fine one. There are a not inconsequential minority of Israelis today that hate Judaism and the religious and many of them were absolutely using judicial reform to try and fight against the perceived inflection point where the country becomes more institutionally religious than secular.
You don't get it. Rabbi Feldman is NOT a prophet, Mr. Slifkin is.
His track record is impeccable. Everything that ever went wrong is thanks to the Charedim. Who else has that accuracy record?
Deuteronomy 28:15, 25:
"But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you... The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth."
And yet in 1948 and in 1967 the secular zionists won great victories
And there have been all kinds of the worst tragedies visited upon traditional communities.
I dont understand why religous jews of all different groups try to explain why God did or did not do something. It says in the neviim that God not "think" like a human being. The only thing that we can do is to look at ourselves and do better. It is an opportunity to do teshuvah. What God does, He does. We praise Him for the good (Shehechyany, Hatov umativ) and for the bad (Dayan Emes). It also says in neviim that God created evil as well. And let us be reminded that we are promised the land of Israel only if we observe His commandments. Otherwise, we can be thrownout of the land.
So stop second guessing why something good or bad happened. Just constantly try and improve yourself and the community. Leave the rest to God. He is the Truth.
Richie S
Fatal combination of absolute self-confidence (arrogance) and utter ignorance. Already in the first paragraph, about how the breech occurred. Hamas had sophisticated weapons of cyberwarfare, intelligence, and quadcopters with powerful IED's that jammed surveillance cameras and destroyed electrical generators and surveillance towers, along with killing the young women who were staffing them. Ironically, in addition, IDF Intelligence was suffering from the same hubris and cognitive bias that Rav Feldman himself demonstrates in his simplistic and self-serving "analysis."
A notable result of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was to blame the other, including God: "The woman you gave me (you, God) she gave me to eat"; "The snake tempted me." But the snake that did not eat from the tree of knowledge did not blame the other but took responsibility for his actions. Therefore, this is what God requires of me: to check, what I should do so that such a disaster does not happen again. To blame the whole world except myself - is to eat from the tree of knowledge and evil
The absolute stupidity of claiming to know God's message is beyond comprehension. Why any Charedi person would hold this man to be his or her Rav is simply unbelievable. If you had a niggling feeling before that maybe something wasn't right with his outlook/hashkafa/personage, this should confirm it for you.
I've said this before: by definition, anyone who is truly a "gadol" would be someone with the quality of anivut. Willingly accepting an invitation to join a body whose name actually declares you to be a gadol? That itself makes one NOT a gadol. (The whole contemporary concept of gedolim is nonsense anyway).
I think he's okay being in the company of Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinski and Rav Moshe Feinstein.
Okay, I admit you have a good point there. Rav Moshe in particular, who was extremely humble. And who I had the privilege of meeting as a boy.
I don't think that Rav Moshe regarded himself has a Gadol (even though he clearly was).
He often introduced himself simply as "Moshe"
So you agree that being on the Moetzes doesn't automatically mean you're not a "gadol".
Sorry if my comment was not clear, I did not express myself properly.
Rav Moshe was absolutely a Gadol, one of the greatest Gedolim of the past 100 years.
However he was also tremendously humble, I don't think that he regarded himself as a Gadol, didn't even use the honorific "Rav" when signing his name
No your comment was very clear. What wasn't clear is that you aren't disagreeing with anything I wrote. I was responding to David who originally thought that being a member of the Moetzes automatically means you're not a "gadol".
According to the Halacha, testimony that you cannot undermine is not testimony. Therefore, irrational claims and testimony like Rabbi Feldman's words are not worthy of consideration at all.
Oh, so a claim that cannot be undermined is not a claim. So if a person says מזיד הייתי, he is not believed.
So Rabbi Feldman is in the august company of people like the Tanna Rabbi Meir, who beg to disagree. But what do they know?
You have such a pleasant way of expressing your disagreement with others.
Where did you pick up this beautiful and attractive middah?
People who continually seek to see Hashem less in events instead of trying to see Him more, especially with large scale events....which is openly against Torah...the types always accusing people of pretending to be prophets...types that always look for the natural reason and exclude divine intervention...they are the ones who cause more retribution chv. This idea is put forth by the great rationalist Rambam.
Seeing Him more dosent mean blaming the victims for sinning! It means self introspection for your own sins!
"However, he continues, if there were prophets, then he knows what they would say."
This line is so intellectually dishonest. Adding in the phrase "he KNOWS what they would say" instead of what he actually does say, "יש מקום להניח" really calls into question your academic integrity.
How do you defend something like that?
I pray God save the honor of the Torah from them and this erroneous theology.
"It appears in Hebrew on an Israeli charedi website with the title, “A Sage is Superior to a Prophet.” "
That's ironic - using chochma generally means to utilize reason, experience and common sense (tools available to every human being incidentally) to analyze a given phenomena or situation.
FYI, this article of Rav Feldman was intended primarily for a secular Israeli audience. Rav Feldman is fearful that we are headed towards an apocalypse, and that all will be lost if Klal Yisrael does not mend its ways. While he certainly has no lack of criticism for flaws in his own community, the existence of a State of Israel where hundreds of thousands of Jews have publicly cast off the yoke of Heaven has created a situation of mortal danger. He believes it possible that at this time of national despair, a certain segment of the populace might be open to reassessing their attitudes towards G-d and Torah, and recognize how powerless we are without HIm. The article is not addressed towards cynical people who are moderately observant and have a kneejerk reaction against anything Haredi.
" the existence of a State of Israel where hundreds of thousands of Jews have publicly cast off the yoke of Heaven has created a situation of mortal danger.|"
Huh? The state is more religious than ever before!
We know that your own views of what is religion and religious are not the same as the rabbis.
More israeli Jews keep shabbat than Americans.
What's yours?
While it is true that many individual people are observant, and their percentage is indeed growing, R. Feldman is referring to the national identity and overarching ideology of the State. As Rambam and others make clear, there are two facets of Divine providence, one affecting the individual, and a broader Hashgacha addressing the nation as a whole.
So which part of R' Slifkin's views on this topic do you take issue with?
He said that the State (the nation as a whole) is more religious than ever before.
You disagree, as regards to the metzius?
I think that Rav Feldman is concerned regarding the overall ideology that seeks to redefine the Jewish people. This is not a radical position.
He wasn't talking to a secular audience, he was talking to his own people.
And if he *thought* he was talking to secular audience, well, obviously his message will never reach them. (Indeed, it would be *better* if it didn't.) If it did, it would almost certainly have no effect. Maybe if he was a Sephardi, talking to Edot Mizrach. But he's not, and he's not.
And do you think he did an effective job?
Do you think that his intended audience will see these as the words of a wise and caring man?
I dont think anyone in Israel will take him seriously, as he's not well known here. He can have a say once he moves here and enters the conersation. Till then hes preaching to a chareidi quoire who should be the object of his rebuke. My rosh yeshiva focused on our own communites flaws. He didnt blame everyone but himself.
No one in the secular world give a hoot about what he says. and thios statement will hardly cause people to take him morseriously. No this is not aimed at secular zionists and the calim that it is, is pure appolgetics- Gedolim-splianing. Only charedim care about what RAF says and he knows that very well. The purpose of the speech is to make charedim feel good about themselves and maintain their scorn for Zionism in all forms. though I have no doubt that RAF beleives what he says.
"And yet the country was much more secular than it is now!"
It's important to recall that, in Jewish tradition, God is characterized by patience. The punishments described in the Torah aren't immediate or complete, bu gradual:
"The Lord will send the curse of shortages, confusion, and turmoil upon you, in every one of your endeavors which you undertake, until it destroys you and until you quickly vanish, because of your evil deeds in forsaking Me".
So as the country becomes more religious, the punishment for its earlier less religious state gradually increase?
The Tanach provides numerous examples where a minority breaking commandments causes epidemics and punishments for the entire nation. Additionally, in modern Israel, Sabbath violations are much more widespread than in the past. Isn't this grounds for significant punishment?
"Additionally, in modern Israel, Sabbath violations are much more widespread than in the past."
1993: 56% Jews light שבת candles, 46% קידוש. In 2003, 66% & 60%
In the same period those who never eat pork went up from 63% to 72%
kashrut in the home went up from 69% to 76%
Now, these numbers don't address "Sabbath violations" per se. But it would be nice if you could back up your claims with some figures.
What time to they light these shabbos candles? Much of anglo jewry traditionally light shabbos candles when dad comes home from work, maybe seven in the winter.....
You missed the point. I already noted, "Now, these numbers don't address "Sabbath violations" per se. "
So again, it would be nice if Shaul would back up his claims with some figures. The trend is that there has been a return to tradition, and the numbers of radical anti-religious secular types are decreasing.
See this study: https://www.izs.org.il/papers/shabatinisrael.pdf
מתוך 43 בתי הקולנוע החברים בהתאחדות ענף הקולנוע, נמצא כי 42
פועלים בשבת, כך ש98%- מבתי הקולנוע פתוחים בשבת. למעשה, סינמה
סיטי בירושלים הוא בית הקולנוע היחיד שאינו פועל בשבת.
Moreover, my recollection of Israel from the early 90s is vivid: locating an open restaurant or store required exhaustive searching in industrial zones on the periphery. Contrastingly, nowadays, businesses thrive seamlessly in urban and central areas.
One single data point doesn't make a trend. You refer to 42 venues in a country of 7 million Jews. That's not evidence of "more widespread than in the past".
If you noticed, I referenced a detailed report that highlights Sabbath violations across different sectors—such as commerce, entertainment, and public transportation. It's logical to assume that the malls, shops, restaurants, and cinemas open on Saturdays attract hundreds of thousands of Israelis.
This is not to mention the growing number of other violations, such as interfaith marriages.
I had to look up the Tifrach Yeshiva. It's dangerously close to the border, sure, but no more so- and sometimes much further- than other places that were also untouched. Am I uninformed of something that he might mention it specifically, or is it just the closest charedi yishuv to Gaza?
In any event, this fails the usual test: If one plans to ascribe a disaster to a lack of following the will of God- which, of course, is a fundamental of Judaism, right there in the Torah- then the first step is to look at *oneself* before looking at others. This should be done if only because it is far easier to change oneself than to change others, not to mention of course that it is a far more pleasant way of acting. Is Feldman claiming that not only he but every single religious Jew is so perfect that they can immediately leap to finding fault in others? Newsflash: They (we) ain't. For starters, while I am second to no one in saying (for personal even more than political reasons) that the protesters in the streets- even last night!- are a bunch of jerks and idiots who, yes, may well be endangering the State and may well have given Hamas ideas (not that Hamas needs any ideas, let's be honest), and, what the heck, maybe Feldman is right and the anti-religion stuff played a big part there (I mean, *of course* it did- all one had to see was the sheer number of gay, trans, and other such flags at every. single. protest, and hear the number of times people- even some with kippot!- screamed at me about "theocracy!"), I'll tell you one thing about every last one of those protesters: THEY SURE DON'T LIVE IN BALTIMORE. Does Feldman think Jews have to do teshuva? He can start looking at the nearest flagpole and see what's on it.
(Oh, and if he really wants Israel to be more religious, and it's not just some excuse? Well, Israel has elections. More voters for your side, your side has more influence. How many people listen to what he and his fellow American gedolim say, or claim to? Tell them to get on a plane.)
I'm going to pontificate a bit more, because there's a more serious issue here: People tend to live in their paradigms, which is often the facts they grew up in. For example, for about a century Jews around the world have thought of American Jewry as being the most influential Jewish community- that is, within the worldwide Jewish community- in the world. And since World War II, that's also be true of simple numbers- a majority of Jews in the world lived in the United States.
Now, neither of those things has been true for a while. But most Jews in the world, even in Israel, continue to think it's true.
Another example would be within American Jewry: Since about the end of World War II, people have had an idea that about half of American Jews are Conservative and most of the rest Reform. Because it was true then. It also hasn't been true for a while: The three major denominations today each account for about 10% of American Jews, which is very, very different from the above picture. But Jews worldwide still think it's true.
And that brings us to Israel: For decades, people had this image that Israeli Jews were about 90% "secular" and the rest religious, and that Israel was some sort of hedonistic, atheist country completely disconnected from Judaism. Now, this was never true, and in the last few decades we've had solid evidence that it's very much not true, and in that time it's gotten less and less true. And I think a lot of Israelis sense this, or even know it. But you know who doesn't know it? People who live in charedi bubbles, or people who live outside Israel, or people raised to have a dislike of Israel as some sort of Babylon. Feldman? Check, check, check. And so we've got, in his eyes, the pure and holy charedi world on the one hand, and the godless heathens of the rest of Israel on the other (let's just ignore all the other dati Israelis, too inconvenient), and so he just *knows* who's to blame, and it ain't his camp. Amazing how that works out.
"If one plans to ascribe a disaster to a lack of following the will of God- which, of course, is a fundamental of Judaism, right there in the Torah- then the first step is to look at *oneself* before looking at others."
Every single calamity is blamed on the same bugaboos and pet peeves. Typical diagnoses: internet and modesty. שבת. The draft. The exception would be if the victims are דעתי לאומי Torah True Jews- in which case it's because of שלוש שבועות. It's rarely attributed to sins בין אדם לחבירו.
What's also odd is the myopic focus on the thuggish opposition to the mass תפילת נעילה on יום כפור. Why not focus on the myriads who went out to daven, and not the fanatics who opposed them? Why not focus on secular journalists who spoke out against the thuggery?
Shades of Eliezer Silver and Simon Wiesenthal there, albeit kind of a mirror image.
On a personal note. Rav Feldman lived in Israel for more thatn forty years, moving here a few years after his marriage. His eight children, and more than one hundred and fifty offspring, all live in Israel. He returned to the USA only in 2001, at the age of 70, when asked to take the helm of Ner Israel after the passing of the prior Roshei Yeshiva.
Well, the children are a big point in the plus column. I don't think my ultimate point changes, though. There are still five million or so Jews in America, of whom at least a couple of hundred thousand are charedim.