What are you talking about? Do you mean my criticism? It's true that sometimes the targets of criticism feel like victims of insults, but that's no reason to refrain from legitimate criticism. Like you mentioned in a different comment, sometimes truths have to be said.
You are only saying that because you know my criticism is spot on, but you can't face it. And everybody knows who I am because I use my full name, unlike you.
Azmaveth is a hypocrite. If he really believes the Torah, all he need do is heed the commandments in Devarim 13, 2-10 and exact his version of your deserved punishment.
You really should watch your back. Azmaveth is obsessed with you and it wouldn’t take much for his absurd calumnies to motivate a Torah True Believer to exact vengeance for your apostasy. Similar to the attempts on Mr. Trump’s Life.
Leaving the matter of interactions with your personal troll to yourself, I have always been puzzled by B'ruriah's quote of that posuq , and of all those who continue to quote her, since in the posuq as we have it now, chato-im is pointed with a dagesh chozoq. Thus it means sinners. If you're looking for sins, that word appears with a chataf patach (and thus no dagesh). So, perhaps B'ruriah (and R. Meier!?, who didn't complain about it) didn't know tanach that well, or perhaps the masoretic text we use now did not equilibrate till a few hundred to a thousand years later, or...what?
I think Bruriah knew exactly what she was saying, and I think she knew the dikduk. She was trying to get her husband to take a more constructive approach. There is a reason, after all, that it is quoted in the Gemara.
In fact, this is a relatively minor one. The disparities extend to letters and sometimes more, and continue into the times of Rishonim.
Bear in mind that the nekudot were only invented centuries after Bruriah, and may reflect usage- if they didn't have the nekudah, they didn't have the vowel (or vice-versa). For a modern example, note that many people (especially non-Israeli Ashkenazim) don't distinguish between the kamatz katan and gadol, which are two completely different vowels, because the symbol for them is the same.
You can see the emotion from this video, and can't help but feel it. Thanks much for bringing it to our attention.
In the spirit of Yom Kippur having passed :-), I'd like to express my distaste with a lot of breast-beating going on, which, as always, is phrased as "we need to repent" but almost always means "other people have to repent." I just saw a overly-long essay on another blog about "Religious Zionists having to do teshuva." (Subtext: *My* kind of Religious Zionism is OK; the rest of you need to drop yours and adopt mine.") And let's not get started on the whole "Forgive us, hostages, for not having freed you." (Subtext: "Any of you people not screaming in the streets are responsible for the hostages still being there.")
You know what? No one's perfect, but it seems to me that certain groups have a lot less to regret than others. The Cassandras who have been yelling the truth for decades would fall into the former category. As to the hostages...no, that is just a denial of reality, which, to be frank, may be connected to the fact that the people saying it were among the anti-Cassandra forces.
None of the Rishonim, Tannaim, or Amora'im thought of this. No Viduy, from any manusqript, mentions positive aqtions.
I guess nobody did anything right until now.
And the tribalism reminds me of that which we qan hear at any chassidus' party. Substiute the words Belz, Vizhnitz, Bobov, Satmar, Vizhnitz, Ger, Sqver, Bluzhev, Striqov, Vizhnitz, Qlausenberg, Pittsburgh, Toldos Aharon, Vizhnitz, or Dziqov. All of them can get up and disquss what great things they did, and how only they eduqated their children for xyz. That's how tribalism worqs. The rest of us try and rise above the differences and daven for Qlal Yisroel and mention their virtues - זרע אברהם יצחק ויעקב, שומרי בריתו ומצפים לישועתו.
Funny that the people who wrote the liturgy thought the same. After all, weren't they all (choose from the above list)?
I am on your side usually but I don't think you should knock Rabbi Melamed for this. His community is going through a very, very hard time and could use all the encouragement they can get. Really. I don't agree that they do a good job of chinuch at all-the opposite-but the situation is what it is, and calls for encouragement at this time.
Right, nobody knew how to read the Torah and Chazal until this guy arrived. Nobody thought to connect the viduy of Yom Qippur to the viduy of Ma'asros, until 2024.
The point is that we approach Hashem with humility on Yom Qippur. The only demand we maqe, in the liturgy, is as one nation. When we splinter off into groups, claiming that all shmondriqer chassidim deserve better treatment, we are endangering ourselves and the group. We are requesting rachamim, din is dangerous for us.
This was once simple to anyone who studied the liturgy.
It takes a lot of energy to fast and to be in shul all day. And yet what could be a better use of time than being immersed in an attempt to get close to G-d.
And don't we end on a massively positive note? Isn't our Shema Yisrael at the end of Ne'ilah the most sincere Shema we say all year? Don't we somehow find energy to sing and dance L'Shana Habaah BiYerushalyim?
That is the time, when we our souls are the most pure, that we can make the positive vidui to which Rav Melamed referred.
Also, while we're on the subject, a new IM post just dropped last week! Halachic and Hashkafic analysis of the draft for yeshiva students! See here, read all about it!
Torah Avodahgmilus chassadim, that's in Pirkei Avos. תורה יעבודה is used all the time by chareidim and it means torah and service of Hashem, i.e. prayer, as in the Mishnah. (Literally service in the Beis Hamikdash)
I indeed had no idea that it means something else for Bnei Akiva, thanks for pointing that out. I stand corrected. Chag Sameach
I knew you would say תורה עבודה גמילות חסדים, but if he meant that, he would have said the third thing, wouldn't he? I don't know why charedim wouldn't include it.
Gmar Chasima Tova to you and yours!!!
huh? You profess to believe that I am a heretic, an apikores, a מסית ומדיח.
Yes...but, Brachos 10a
הנהו בריוני דהוו בשבבותיה דרבי מאיר והוו קא מצערו ליה טובא. הוה קא בעי רבי מאיר רחמי עלויהו כי היכי דלימותו. אמרה ליה ברוריא דביתהו: מאי דעתך — משום דכתיב ״יתמו חטאים״, מי כתיב ״חוטאים״? ״חטאים״ כתיב. ועוד, שפיל לסיפיה דקרא ״ורשעים עוד אינם״, כיון ד״יתמו חטאים״ ״ורשעים עוד אינם״? אלא בעי רחמי עלויהו דלהדרו בתשובה, ״ורשעים עוד אינם״. בעא רחמי עלויהו, והדרו בתשובה.
You insult him with the crudest and most childish words.
What are you talking about? Do you mean my criticism? It's true that sometimes the targets of criticism feel like victims of insults, but that's no reason to refrain from legitimate criticism. Like you mentioned in a different comment, sometimes truths have to be said.
You use childish insults. It's never too late to ask mechila.
Oh, and I know who you are.
You are only saying that because you know my criticism is spot on, but you can't face it. And everybody knows who I am because I use my full name, unlike you.
Rav Slifkin,
Azmaveth is a hypocrite. If he really believes the Torah, all he need do is heed the commandments in Devarim 13, 2-10 and exact his version of your deserved punishment.
כִּ֤י הָרֹג֙ תַּֽהַרְגֶ֔נּוּ יָ֥דְךָ֛ תִּֽהְיֶה־בּ֥וֹ בָרִֽאשׁוֹנָ֖ה לַהֲמִית֑וֹ וְיַ֥ד כׇּל־הָעָ֖ם בָּאַחֲרֹנָֽה׃
https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.13
You really should watch your back. Azmaveth is obsessed with you and it wouldn’t take much for his absurd calumnies to motivate a Torah True Believer to exact vengeance for your apostasy. Similar to the attempts on Mr. Trump’s Life.
A happy and healthy long life to you and yours.
Leaving the matter of interactions with your personal troll to yourself, I have always been puzzled by B'ruriah's quote of that posuq , and of all those who continue to quote her, since in the posuq as we have it now, chato-im is pointed with a dagesh chozoq. Thus it means sinners. If you're looking for sins, that word appears with a chataf patach (and thus no dagesh). So, perhaps B'ruriah (and R. Meier!?, who didn't complain about it) didn't know tanach that well, or perhaps the masoretic text we use now did not equilibrate till a few hundred to a thousand years later, or...what?
I think Bruriah knew exactly what she was saying, and I think she knew the dikduk. She was trying to get her husband to take a more constructive approach. There is a reason, after all, that it is quoted in the Gemara.
It is definitely true that there are many disparities between the texts of Tanach that Chazal had and the one that we have.
In fact, this is a relatively minor one. The disparities extend to letters and sometimes more, and continue into the times of Rishonim.
Bear in mind that the nekudot were only invented centuries after Bruriah, and may reflect usage- if they didn't have the nekudah, they didn't have the vowel (or vice-versa). For a modern example, note that many people (especially non-Israeli Ashkenazim) don't distinguish between the kamatz katan and gadol, which are two completely different vowels, because the symbol for them is the same.
Impressed!! That also may be the precise קרי/כתיב liberty used by their drash!! Thank you!!
You can see the emotion from this video, and can't help but feel it. Thanks much for bringing it to our attention.
In the spirit of Yom Kippur having passed :-), I'd like to express my distaste with a lot of breast-beating going on, which, as always, is phrased as "we need to repent" but almost always means "other people have to repent." I just saw a overly-long essay on another blog about "Religious Zionists having to do teshuva." (Subtext: *My* kind of Religious Zionism is OK; the rest of you need to drop yours and adopt mine.") And let's not get started on the whole "Forgive us, hostages, for not having freed you." (Subtext: "Any of you people not screaming in the streets are responsible for the hostages still being there.")
You know what? No one's perfect, but it seems to me that certain groups have a lot less to regret than others. The Cassandras who have been yelling the truth for decades would fall into the former category. As to the hostages...no, that is just a denial of reality, which, to be frank, may be connected to the fact that the people saying it were among the anti-Cassandra forces.
Pride indeed, obviously mixed with pain.
Wow!
None of the Rishonim, Tannaim, or Amora'im thought of this. No Viduy, from any manusqript, mentions positive aqtions.
I guess nobody did anything right until now.
And the tribalism reminds me of that which we qan hear at any chassidus' party. Substiute the words Belz, Vizhnitz, Bobov, Satmar, Vizhnitz, Ger, Sqver, Bluzhev, Striqov, Vizhnitz, Qlausenberg, Pittsburgh, Toldos Aharon, Vizhnitz, or Dziqov. All of them can get up and disquss what great things they did, and how only they eduqated their children for xyz. That's how tribalism worqs. The rest of us try and rise above the differences and daven for Qlal Yisroel and mention their virtues - זרע אברהם יצחק ויעקב, שומרי בריתו ומצפים לישועתו.
Funny that the people who wrote the liturgy thought the same. After all, weren't they all (choose from the above list)?
I am on your side usually but I don't think you should knock Rabbi Melamed for this. His community is going through a very, very hard time and could use all the encouragement they can get. Really. I don't agree that they do a good job of chinuch at all-the opposite-but the situation is what it is, and calls for encouragement at this time.
You seemed to have missed his point that the *Torah* says it, and chazal called it "vidui."
We can't be proud of our group for the good it does? You must live in a Lennon-like utopia, as in "Imagine."
Right, nobody knew how to read the Torah and Chazal until this guy arrived. Nobody thought to connect the viduy of Yom Qippur to the viduy of Ma'asros, until 2024.
The point is that we approach Hashem with humility on Yom Qippur. The only demand we maqe, in the liturgy, is as one nation. When we splinter off into groups, claiming that all shmondriqer chassidim deserve better treatment, we are endangering ourselves and the group. We are requesting rachamim, din is dangerous for us.
This was once simple to anyone who studied the liturgy.
He is in no way implying a single thing you are. He's not even talking on Yom Kippur, for God's sake. It's all in your imagination.
Oh, and it's best you lay off on the "q"s. Otherwise you might write something like "maqe."
Oh, you did.
(And this is coming from someone who actually pronounces his קs correctly.)
Rav Kook published the idea of "positive vidui" in Ein Ayah in, I believe, 1938.
Rav Kook did not connect it to Yom Kippur vidui, but I imagine (not having time to watch the video) neither does Rav Melamed.
Tribalism at its best. MY gadol is better than everyone else's. MY mikva is wetter, MY coffee is hotter, MY chazan is nicer. ME! ME! ME!
I doubt he's even aware of פניני הלכה.
The old "who said it". Rabbanim, Talmedei Chachamim based on Chazal, Rishonim, and Acharonim.The Daati Leumi
have their Gedolim.
But doing Teshuva IS a positive accomplishment.
It takes a lot of energy to fast and to be in shul all day. And yet what could be a better use of time than being immersed in an attempt to get close to G-d.
And don't we end on a massively positive note? Isn't our Shema Yisrael at the end of Ne'ilah the most sincere Shema we say all year? Don't we somehow find energy to sing and dance L'Shana Habaah BiYerushalyim?
That is the time, when we our souls are the most pure, that we can make the positive vidui to which Rav Melamed referred.
דרשו השם בהמצאו קראהו בהיותו קרוב
"...to get close to G-d". To have a stronger relationship to Hashem.We can't get close to him. He is not a person.
Hey dear fellow, if Rashi was a corporealist, then according to him it is possible to actually get close! See here
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-very-very-problematic-rashi
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/was-rashi-a-corporealist
Also, while we're on the subject, a new IM post just dropped last week! Halachic and Hashkafic analysis of the draft for yeshiva students! See here, read all about it!
https://irrationalistmodoxism.substack.com/p/a-halachic-and-hashkafic-analysis
"Getting close/far" to God is a well established concept in Jewish thought. It may only be a metaphor, but it's a well established one.
For example
ואשא אתכם על כנפי נשרים ואבא אתכם אלי
כי רחק ממני מנחם משיב נפשי
כי מי גוי גדול אשר לו אלוהים קרובים אליו כה׳ אלקנו בכל קראנו אליו
"have a lot to be proud of... to combine Torah with work"
Quite an original interpretation of תורה ועבודה mentioned in פרקי אבות.
Clearly not Rabbi Melameds intention though.
The terms in Pirkei Avot are תורה and דרך ארץ, of which "Torah and work" is the *exact* translation.
In any event, you seem not to realize that תורה ועבודה is the motto of Bnei Akiva, which is exactly what he's talking about.
Torah Avodahgmilus chassadim, that's in Pirkei Avos. תורה יעבודה is used all the time by chareidim and it means torah and service of Hashem, i.e. prayer, as in the Mishnah. (Literally service in the Beis Hamikdash)
I indeed had no idea that it means something else for Bnei Akiva, thanks for pointing that out. I stand corrected. Chag Sameach
I knew you would say תורה עבודה גמילות חסדים, but if he meant that, he would have said the third thing, wouldn't he? I don't know why charedim wouldn't include it.
Thank you, Natan, for this, and a gmar chatimah tovah to you, your family, and all of klal Yisrael.
avi
גמר חתימה טוב