Monday, August 29, 2022

Funny, Not Funny, And Funny

1. You're never too old to learn something new. And when it comes to relationships, it's always valuable to learn new lessons about communication. I've been married for over twenty years and I'm still learning important new lessons about how better communication can enhance a marriage. For example, the other day I learned that when you put giant millipedes in a cookie box, it's a good idea to make sure that your spouse knows that you have done that.

2. The New York Times printed an appalling antisemitic article by a Jew who is adored by the haters of Israel, the idiotic Peter Beinart, who is perhaps best known for his advocating the dismantling of the State of Israel and his blithe disregard for the catastrophic loss of life that would ensue. Now, Beinart is writing about how Jewish organizations are threatening freedom worldwide out of a desire to promote "Jewish supremacy." The usual Jewish enemies of the Jewish People have, of course, enthusiastically welcomed Beinart's latest article. An important response to Beinart was published by Prof. Jarrod Tanney. Here is another excellent comment posted by Michael Leon on Facebook:

I would submit that if you can’t see the problem with writing in the New York Times that American Jewish organizations are a “threat to freedom” in the context of accusing them of articulating a philosophy of “Jewish supremacy,” (again, imagine this language being directed at any other minority group in American society) then, respectfully, I think you’ve really lost your way and you’re letting your personal political resentments get in the way of your better judgment. 

People can disagree about Israel, about the work of American Jewish organizations, and about politics. There has to be some line drawn in the language we use to describe one another, and the language directed at the constituent organizations of minority groups. To call American Jewish organizations a “threat to freedom” is just a bridge too far and should cause some self-reflection, and same self-reflection many of you would quickly call on others to exercise. It is not justifiable to hurl these kinds of accusations against American Jews over Israel unless you believe that Jews bear collective responsibility for one another. 

As far as whether Peter’s piece is antisemitic or not, I would direct people here to the JDA, which provides, in pertinent part: 

“It is ‘classic antisemitism’ to suggest that ‘Jews are linked to the forces of evil[.]” “Antisemitism can be . . . indirect . . . or coded.” 

“[G]rossing exaggerating [Israel]’s actual influence can be a coded way of racializing and stigmatizing Jews.” 

Examples related to Israel and Palestine that are on the face of it, antisemitic: “Assuming that non-Israeli Jews, simply because they are Jews, are necessarily more loyal to Israel than to their own countries.” 

To accuse American Jewish organizations of being a “threat to freedom,” and to accuse them of favoring “Jewish supremacy” in their fight against antisemitism, on the pages of the most widely read American newspaper in the world, offends each of these sections of the JDA, as does blaming American Jewish organizations and Israel itself for the failures of countries like Saudi Arabia to liberalize, an utterly twisted and sour view of the Abraham Accords.

3. Here's a funny but unfortunate result of the combination of teaching about the prohibition of tzaar baalei chaim, shorthand terminology, and automatic Google translations:


 

67 comments:

  1. Are you blind?

    Why don't you complain about the Jewish racial supremacists who post on your own blog about how their religion believes in discrimination rather than to the messenger who has to tell you what happens in your own front door?

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    1. Clearly Beinart, who lives in the US, can't read Hebrew, and barely if ever visits Israel, knows more about Israel and Judaism than R' Slifkin, an ordained rabbi with a PhD in Jewish history who lives in the heart of Israel, mere kilometers from the West Bank who almost certainly deals with far more Arabs daily than Beinart has ever met in his life.

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    2. HAT, YOU'RE A PROGRESSIVE JERK AND SELF HATING JEW. GO COMMENT ON AL JAZEERA. TO NOT BE INTO EVERY MOVE THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT MAKES IS ONE THING. TO SAY ALL JEWS ARE RACIAL SUPREMACISTS IS ANOTHER. GOOD GRIEF!! GO TO HELL.

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    3. @Nachum
      Your heart is in the right place, but your line of attack against Beinart will never work. Beinart regularly travels to Israel, including the so-called West Bank. He regularly collaborates with Arabs in crafting his attacks against Israel.

      The problem with Beinart is that he only deals with a limited type of Arab, the professional propagandist, with occasional supporting actors from Pallywood. How many westerners know about Khaled Abu Toameh, Mohammed Daoudi Dajani, Bassam Eid, or any of a host of other Arabs in Israel who offer different view that given by the PNM?

      A separate problem with Beinart is his obliviousness to much of the history. He evidences no awareness of the reality of 19th century Arab privilege in Ottoman Palestine. Recognizing that historical privilege is the first step to realizing that maybe the Palestinian grievance is loss of privilege and not their being denied equal citizenship.

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    4. Again, Hat, you are making the same tired mistake. The fact that a small minority of a nation do or believe x does not stand as proof that the organs of that people or its nation-state do or believe x. And when said organs and nation-state publically repudiate such actions or beliefs, all the more so. Your ability to put things into context and consider proportion consistently stops at the door of the Jewish People.

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    5. Sar Shalom,

      Obviously by "Arabs" I mean hamon am. I'll tell you a funny story: Our plumber was a Jewish guy of Iraqi descent. He eventually retired and handed the business to his younger Arab partner, who continues to be our plumber. Once we asked the latter how his old partner was doing in retirement. "Oh, Ezra," he rolled his eyes. "He's all into Jewish-Arab coexistence and all that BS."

      Turned out that Ezra was into a lot more than that: He was a professional troublemaker, funded by the EU and various NGOs, who was eventually arrested after he confessed, to a media sting operation, that he turned over names of Arabs who sold land to Jews to the PA so they could be executed. He (not a young man) died awaiting trial. (You can look it up.) His partner claimed to me that all the charges were exaggerated, but I sensed that was the natural reaction of a friend. He certainly didn't agree with the guy's politics.

      Anyway, I recall that Beinart was recently denied entry to Israel, or at least was mildly inconvenienced for a few hours on his way on, which of course he capitalized on to the hilt. Which I don't mind so much. If we all know your stated purpose for entry is to attack your host, then you shouldn't get to use its nice centrally located airport and stay in a nice hotel in Tel Aviv to further your work. Cross into Gaza from Egypt if you want to so much.

      In any event, I long ago pegged the man for a fraud. Part of his shtick is that he likes to portray himself as a good frum yid. He recently had some clueless piece about trying to get a Mincha minyan and the shul in New York having a combination lock, no doubt because of all the Klansmen in New York and not, say, his Islamist buddies. But the first time I saw him claim that, he included a line about how he "Goes to synagogue and reads from the Torah scroll with his son." Um, no you don't. Look, maybe it was sloppy editing, but it colored my picture of the man.

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    6. @mevaseretzion what would a rational israeli deduce when the leader of the biggest party lines up with the most extreme voices on the right? Is it still a small percentage?

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    7. "The most extreme" is a definition by those who dictate Overton windows.

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    8. @mevaseretzion

      You are upset that people like Beinart perceive Israel as a racist state, but you seem to me to be claiming to be aligned to the Western, democratic, anti-racist values of Beinart espouses rather than the values of the violent racists. Your machlokes with Beinart seems to be a macklokes of what the metzius is - quite how racist is Israel.

      if you are horrified by the image people have of Israel, I think you and the Rabbi Doctor should put rather more energy into opposing the unashamed fascists who abound in public, even on this very blog, rather than denying their existence and decrying the people who point them out to you.

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    9. Hat, I am pointing out to you that you are holding a double standard: you single out Israel's sins while ignoring Arab sins, call Jews to task over Israeli extremists while remaining silent on Arab extremists, and purposely ignore the context of Israeli extremist behavior. I am sure you are not an anti-Semite, but holding Jews to a different standard is anti-Semitic behavior.

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    10. "Clearly Beinart, who lives in the US, can't read Hebrew"

      I think Beinart learns daf yomi. He once cited it, "In today's daf yomi, it says...."

      But it's a safe bet Rabbi Slifkin knows more Torah (unless Peter Beinart knows a lot and is very modest about it).

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    11. I'm sorry, Mr. Hat - what Jewish racial supremacists who post on this blog? Are you reading some other blog and conflating?

      Perhaps there are some religious people who post here (somehow I thought that you were one of them), and as religious people we accept the concepts as stated in pesukim of Mamleches Kohanim v'Goy Kadosh. Now, if you are stating that the Divine Author of the Torah, by dint of separating Am Yisrael out is racist, then I think that we have no common ground.

      If you are referring to people who have been battle scarred and talk about saving their country in a survival mode, not referring to Arabs as subhuman due to genetics but that their negotiating tactics are not fair and indeed are rather injurious (if I say "aggressive negotiations" will anyone get the reference?), then you have a rather jaded eye and a very extremely Karaitically Christian way of being. (In that you are extremely supportive of the idea of turning the other cheek - which means, for those watching at home, offering up a new target rather than fighting back. I say Karaitically Christian because we all know that Christianity itself does not actually behave this way...)

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    12. Sorry, I must have missed all the videos of gangs of Arabs stealing land and vandalising Jewish property while the occupation authorities actively assisted.

      Of course I focus on Jewish crimes in the West Bank as they are by any reasonably metric far worse than the petty acts of civil disobedience or lone wolf terrorism that are available to West Bank Palestinians. I am taking about the hundreds of innocent civilians shot every year by racist thugs with the blessing of the state who are sometimes state employees. The theft of land. The deliberate vandalism. The conscious effort to ethically cleanse. The degradation on the streets, the travel restrictions, the dhimmi status of Palestinian people in their own home.

      Where is your own balance?

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    13. Obviously one can quote Daf Yomi without knowing Hebrew. But what's important here are Israeli newspapers, and Beinart has admitted he can't read them.

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    14. I can learn a piece of Gemara (though there's plenty of Judeo-Aramaic). I can read my kids age-appropriate books in Hebrew. But I still have trouble with the newspapers. I pick up Yediot or Maariv and I find it very difficult to decipher.

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    15. But David, the difference is that unlike Beinart, you don't hold yourself out as an expert on Israel.

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  2. The "Israel is responsible for everything" idea is well illustrated by a guest post on Bari Weiss' Substack today. The author (a gay progressive recent college grad who is making aliyah) points out that at every campus progressive protest today, no matter the topic- he mentions protests to raise the salaries of university janitors as an example- Israel (or even Jews) is brought out as the ultimate bad guy. Beinart is glad to pile on.

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  3. Responding to antisemitism doesn't work. For that matter, all the comments responding to inaccuracies in your posts - also doesn't work....

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    1. Yoni, does your comment work? (I doubt mine will.)

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    2. I am against the criminal behavior of the few you cite,but don't give me your self hating Jew diatribes and
      outright propaganda that comes out of the mouths of Hamas and Hezbollah! We try our best to deal with a complicated situation when dealing with an Arab population who is hostile and some are terrorists or abettors of terrorists.We believe in
      fairness, justice and democracy. We don't believe that morality means cutting your own throat which you do for us when it comes to Arab interests.



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    3. Aren't you the self hating Jew for opposing criminal behaviour? Or do we both agree?

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    4. So nice to hear from the Hat posting again. Just when we thought the kapos were becoming extinct we hear from our own pseudo intellectual Hat. I hope it's a consolation to you that the kapos were the last to be killed in the gas chambers. In your case you might impress some of the antisemitic writers for the NY Times - the ultimate dream of any self hating jew

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  4. " I learned that when you put giant millipedes in a cookie box, it's a good idea to make sure that your spouse knows that you have done that"
    Absolutely hilarious; Especially true if your spouse isn't particularly keen on creepy, crawly things.

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  5. Regarding machine translation: My daughter in Israel went abroad for a couple months and bought a medical policy for the trip. it came with an (obviously machine translated) English version. The coverage for pregnancy abroad (herayon bachu"l) was translated as "rain in the sand." I get the "sand" part: confusing the acronym for a word. But not sure how it got "rain" out of heyrayon. best I could come up with is the word didn't appear in the training set and it translitterated and look for the closest English word.

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    1. Probably from the word יורה which means the first rains after the autumn. As in יורה ומלקוש ….

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    2. Possible, but seems far-fetched as it strikes me as even less likely than "Heyrayon" to be in the training set, which is modern Hebrew, not biblical.

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    3. …וַיִּתֵּן ה׳ לָהּ הֵרָיוֹן, וַתֵּלֶד בֵּן. — רות ד:י״ג ;)

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  6. Does the man have a messiah complex? Maybe. Are his intentions 100% pure? Who knows. Is the tone in this particular article a little extreme? Sure.
    But I don't know why in general all the right wing nutjobs get so up in arms about this guy. Beinart is claiming is that the two state solution is dead. Isn't that what you people want?
    Or perhaps you want to ignore the inevitable and very uncomfortable consequences of your belief system? A bi-national state.

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    1. What "we" wanted isn't so important. Since Rabin/Peres and the Oslo Accords, Israel has put all of its chips in on a two-state solution, or at least Palestinian autonomy ("less than a state", as Rabin said one month before the assassination). That's Bibi's position as well.

      The Palestinians who say that the two-state solution is dead are usually Hamas or Hamas supporters--and we know that they don't want any Jewish presence anywhere in "Palestine". If the two-state solution is dead, their enthusiasm in the Second Intifada is what killed it. Beinart doesn't seem to figure that in.

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    2. But why do you need to keep building more settlement homes, seizing more land, and securing this who burn olive groves? Just because there won't be perfect peace, the state can behave like playground bullies?

      The point of respecting human dignity and human rights isn't a card to play to achieve a lasting political settlement with the Palestinians. It's simply basic human morality.

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    3. Hat, your naivete is rivalled only by your hypocrisy. Your favorite word is "whataboutery", and yet you keep ducking the only salient point - TERRORSIM - to whine "what about the olive groves?" Were you under a rock a few weeks ago when rockets were raining down on Israel from Gaza? Do you not understand that if you give the Arabs a state that would be happening every night and every day? You and your olive groves. What is wrong with you???

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    4. You do realise that burning olive trees is not an effective means of preventing rockets and that the people who owned the trees fired zero rockets.

      It's a completely illogical non sequitur.

      There is a world of different options which fall between unilaterally and immediately granting full Palestinian statehood on the one hand; and acts of wanton racist violence like burning Arab cars and trees, and I don't need to choose between your false dichotomies.

      I don't need to either confirm my belief that the world is round or to condemn Palestinians firing rockets at Sderot. Neither are a matter of active controversy on Rationalist Judaism. However, illogical apologists for Jewish racist thugs do seem to abound and you all need confronting with 1) the metzius of the unnecessary brutality of the occupation and 2) the emotional, illogical character of your arguments.

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    5. So you are shown to engage in your favorite bogeyman of "whataboutery", and your response is to engage in more whataboutery. Listen Hat - most of us only waste our time bantering with you because there's not too many other people fool enough to admit to your nutty perspective. It does make you somewhat unique (albeit not in any way to be proud of.) But people are going to tire of the fun really fast if you can't even stick to basic facts. Personally I'm already getting tired of it. I don't want to ever see your favorite word "whataboutery" again if you can't stick to the fundamental issue of Arab terrorism.

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    6. Let's stick to your favoured fundamental issue of Arab terrorism. Can you explain why burning olive trees of people who are not terrorists has anything to do with Arab terrorism?

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    7. Your insistence on having the last comment, even if completely irrelevant, is the hallmark of a sixth-grader.

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  7. A joke popular in Israel in 80-x years was telling about an immigrant from Soviet Union who became fluent in Hebrew but kept reading Soviet papers. When asked why, he explained: "When I read Israeli papers, I learn awful news about economic collapse, unemployment, corruption and danger of war. When I read Soviet papers, I am getting explained that we already seized a half of the world and now are looking forward to seize the second part."
    So, nothing new here about antisemites and Jewish self-haters. Business as usual.
    As the wrong automatic translation: unfortunately it is its very nature of any translation to be wrong the text because of misunderstanding or not paying proper attention to the context. Humans who are fluent enough in a particular language submit such errors too.
    Hillel Brodsky

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  8. The Hat- I don't agree! I said the criminal acts of the few and you indicted the Israeli State and it's population! Which is typical anti-Semite rhetoric.Calm down Hat! You seethe with resentment and should I say "hate" . Be constructive and with your genius you'll find fair solutions.

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    1. So if the metzius is that uniformed employees of the Israeli state allow acts of racist thuggery to take place you'll agree with me that it's something objectionable that every Israeli should either object to our become complicit in?

      Because this happened this month:-

      https://www.btselem.org/video/20220828_settlers_throw_stones_at_palestinian_homes_and_cars_in_presence_of_soldier_

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  9. It's interesting to me that Human Rights Groups do not protest the fact that France and other European countries forbid the wearing of kippot or other religious symbols (i.e Muslim dress) in public schools and that brit milah may wind-up being outlawed in Germany and other countries, to say nothing about the moves to outlaw kosher slaughter. That being said, we should all be cautious about racist attitudes and speech among Jews in both Israel and the United States. I remember being told "How did you not know they were Arabs? Couldn't you tell by their ugly Arab faces?!?" I couldn't. I thought they were Mizrachis, and looked fine to me.

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  10. Hat, you are an anti-Semite. This blog is meant for Jews. Go post on gab.

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    1. Your Rav banned you from the internet, kal v'chomer from shgotzim on Rationalist Judaism.

      Seriously though, if you carry on posting provocative immature content for the controversialist endorphin hit you'll end up embarrassed by yourself like Nahum, who disowns his own violent racist ranting. Tread carefully.

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    2. Rabbi Slifkin, please allow through my nasty comment back to Hat. Not sure why it's being censored.

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    3. That's not what I meant! Was that a joke?? What good does that do me?

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  11. All the Judeo-Nazis below this comment are going to moan about how I am quite content to call them that.

    You have earned the right to this accolade by cheapening the memory of the kedoshim who were killed by racist thugs. If you call someone who insists that everyone should behave ethically a Kapo, you are a Judeo-Nazi. You never really cared about the 6 million or how they died at the hands of racist thugs who thought, as you think, that ethics was a decadent concept of decadent Jews

    If you are upset by this post but not by the Kapo posts or the self hating Jew posts, you are a Judeo-Nazi sympathiser who again hasn't really understood the Holocaust. "Never again" doesn't mean the Jews can behave as immorally as is convenient without accountability.

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    1. A very silly comment. I'll dispense with tasteless name calling and I won't use nasty language such as "kapo" or "judeo-nazi".

      But I won't refrain from name calling. The name for you and Beinart is dystopian. The utopian will destroy those living in present for their vision of a future- real or imagined. You dystopians will risk the future to replace a present which you view as a intolerable. (The progressive left are big time dystopians. They themselves parallel right-wing conspiratorial thinking with equally paranoid thinking with terms like "systemic racism") It doesn't matter whether your dystopian view of the present is correct or not. You don't a give a damn whether or not your solution will work. You're just convinced that it can't possibly get any worse, and that doing anything beats doing nothing. I reject both the humility of זכריה בן אבקולס and the cock-sure arrogance of Beinart and The Hat.

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    2. Ephraim, what is dystopian about the following: -

      - not destroying agricultural produce like olive trees
      - not slashing car tyres
      - not stealing more land
      - not throwing stones at farmers working their land
      - not deploying security forces to defend active thuggery
      - law and justice for perpetrators of violent racism

      It is completely apolitical. It is very basic, human, decency.

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    3. Ephraim, the correct time to react to the cheapening the Holocaust name calling was when it occurred, not when I called it out by the Judeo Nazis who indulge in it.

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    4. "law and justice for perpetrators of violent racism"

      Do you believe that racism should be a crime, deserving of "law" and "justice"? Violence, of course, but how does the addition of "racism" change things one way or another?

      I mean, to take an example, you, sir, are a racist. I imagine you are not violent. Should you be subject to law and justice?

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    5. Freedom of thought should be without restrictions, so BEING a racist does not constitute a crime.
      Freedom of speech, however, has limitations, so hateful speech and incitation to hate are.

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    6. Hat: One can vigorously oppose such abuses and still recognize the necessity for retaining the "occupation". As bad as the abuses are, the solution is not to engage in messianic fantasies. Which is what the dystopians demand.

      "Ephraim, the correct time to react to the cheapening the Holocaust name calling was when it occurred, not when I called it out by the Judeo Nazis who indulge in it."
      It just occurred now by you, so I'm calling you out for it.

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    7. Are we really trying out the "I am a peaceful racist" line? It doesn't work. If you steal people's land property, the ethnic cleansing beloved of Kahana, you are a violent racist thug.

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    8. "Freedom of speech, however, has limitations"

      No, it does not. Or should not. Period.

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    9. @The Hat 12:18PM

      I agree with your sentiments. The religious zealot illegal settlers and chareidi parties are both existential threats to Israel. It would be helpful to identify by name the organizations and miscreants that invade Arab property and destroy their olive groves.

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  12. You can chart the rise in racism in Israel in successive Knessets. It's an empirical fact, but most posters here are far more concerned with how Beinart hurt their feelings.

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    1. Olive trees??? Who gives a damn about olive trees? How about stop killing jews and then you can plant all the olive trees you want. It is NOT basic human decency to worry about your enemies LIVES - let alone their olive trees. It is the misguided morality from jews who can't find enough of a cause in their own identity who need to identify with the enemy on every occasion. כל המרחם על האכזר סופו להיות אכזר על הרחמנים.........

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    2. "rise in racism in Israel in successive Knessets"

      That's an off-base assessment. The success of the zealots BG (not that BG) & BS is more an artifact of unique circumstances & the nature of elections here. Bibi is personally hated by many on the right. And Bennet's people are disappointed with his unity government. That leaves the right in a mess, despite the left being decimated. The sudden success of BG+BS are due to expediency on the non-extreme-far right rather than a true identification with the zealots.

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    3. The people who are killing the Jews were not the same people whose olive trees you are supporting the destruction of. One has got absolutely nothing to do with the other.

      What matters is not the olive trees themselves. It's the fact that racist Jewish youths are attacking the property of Arabs simply because of who they are.

      I can also swap endless quotes of Chazal about real Jewsih values of rachmanim, bayshanim, and gomlei chassadim. I can tell you it was one of the 7 Noachide laws to set up courts of justice to provide accountability. Attitudes like yours breach this basic universal human obligation.

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    4. Ephraim, what metric of racism would you prefer? Per-capita reports of Jewish violence against Arabs?

      It's possible to construct a post hoc rationalisation for everything but it looks to me mightily like a case of facts hurting feelings.

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  13. Ephraim: you maintain you *could* oppose abuses by the state: but neither you nor the Rabbi Doctor have ever taken the time to do so.

    No one dagesh or nekuda, not a single iota, have you ever said "this is too much" or "not in my name". Never.

    Take https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-62635675, reporting on the theft of land by the Israeli military. You won't condemn that vigorously or otherwise in a million years. There has been not one single excess where you have said "this is too much."

    All I ever get from you and the Rabbi Doctor is apologia for the Occupation and its Judeo Nazi stormtroopers.

    There is a platonic ideal of an occupation could exist where the military alone occupied the land, where there was no land theft, no racism, no degradation, no destruction of property.

    But such an occupation would not have lasted 50 years and ended up with more than 1 million Israeli civilians living in land they do not claim sovereignty over.

    The real life occupation is security; but it is also greed, racism, violence, coercion, and corruption.

    To quote from the prescient Y Lebowitz, writing in 1968

    "The Arabs would be the working people and the Jews the administrators, inspectors, officials, and police—mainly secret police. A state ruling a hostile population of 1.5 to 2 million foreigners would necessarily become a secret-police state, with all that this implies for education, free speech and democratic institutions. The corruption characteristic of every colonial regime would also prevail in the State of Israel. The administration would suppress Arab insurgency on the one hand and acquire Arab Quislings on the other. There is also good reason to fear that the Israel Defense Forces, which has been until now a people's army, would, as a result of being transformed into an army of occupation, degenerate, and its commanders, who will have become military governors, resemble their colleagues in other nations."

    But maybe I am wrong. Perhaps the Platonic ideal of the occupation is possible. Fight for it. Object to the greed, the violence, the racism, the hate. Nothing could make me happier than seeing my own view of the irredeemably evil nature of the occupation proven wrong.

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  14. "Ephraim: you maintain you *could* oppose abuses by the state: but neither you nor the Rabbi Doctor have ever taken the time to do so"
    Speculation.

    "No one dagesh or nekuda, not a single iota, have you ever said "this is too much" or "not in my name". Never."
    Speculation, fantasy & delusion.

    " its Judeo Nazi stormtroopers."
    You're a very silly person.

    "There is a platonic ideal ..."
    And hence, you've confirmed that you're a dystopian- so obsessed with the unpleasant present that you'd risk the future for change- any change.

    " the prescient Y Lebowitz"
    He was not prescient, he was a cranky genius. His mind was more narrow that an anorexic toothpick. Only a cranky genius could refer to the כותל as עבודה זרה. Heck, he rejects vast aspect of Torah tradition as declared them idolatry. If you remove all those aspects of the mystical tradition rejected by the רמב"ם and then remove all the rationalism that was rejected by the מקובלים- you'd still end up with a Judaism more broad and varied than the Judaism advocated by Leibowitz.

    So much for ad hominem attacks. As far as prescience goes, YL's predictions have not been fulfilled, certainly not to any degree of rigor that we would expect from a non-cranky chemist.

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    1. Rather than me being a dystopian, it seems to me that you are an absolutist utopian.

      You will not countenance making any changes whatsoever to the occupation, because you you consider the occupation to be the absolute best possible outcome without any possibility of improvement.

      I am not a dystopian by conviction. I am pragmatic. I would be delighted to be proven wrong that the occupation can be tweaked to remove the bad bits. But that requires you to be open to change.

      When you and the Rabbi Doctor are invited to speak up for that change - crickets.

      If so called moderates are not prepared to moderate, all that remains, even to pragmatists, is absolutes.

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  15. Israel invaded Lebanon to secure itself from a very real threat of rocket attacks and terrorists. That occupation had legitimate goals. Yet it could not succeed, and somehow after the occupation, life has carried on for those in Northern Israel.

    There is no such thing as absolute security in life. It is a fundamentally unreasonable and unobtainable goal. Palestinians kill Israelis with the occupation, and doubtless they will threaten and on occasion kill Israelis after it. Yet life will carry on after the occupation.

    The end of the occupation of Lebanon brought first a war and then a peace, and it is likely that the end of the occupation of the West Bank will follow a similar pattern.

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    1. "You will not countenance..."
      Speculation.

      "I am not a dystopian by conviction."
      So you're dystopian by expediency?

      " I am pragmatic."
      No, you are a fanatical messianic, cock sure that whatever terror that will follow an evacuation would be tolerable.

      "There is no such thing as absolute security in life."
      But there is such a thing as non-absolute security. You have no right to impose your indifference upon others.

      "The end of the occupation of Lebanon brought first a war and then a peace,"
      You missed today's headline. UNIFIL is running scared.

      "Palestinians will threaten and on occasion kill Israelis after it... and it is likely that the end of the occupation of the West Bank will follow a similar pattern"
      So there will be peace and killings. Basically, what I infer is that you have a very low standard for what you call peace and a high tolerance for terror, providing it's not on your head.

      Delete
    2. The only person displaying an extraordinary indifference to human suffering, brutality, and inhumanity is you.

      If I am wrong, condemn the stone throwing video and the inaction of the soldier in the space provided below.

      Delete
    3. Narrator's voice: he did not in fact see room for improvement in any aspect of the occupation whatsoever.

      Delete
  16. Ephraim, you say you "could" have spoken up against the abuses of power committed by the Israeli state.

    You say it's speculation when I make the factual assertion that you never have (your and the Rabbi Doctors writings which are on record on this blog notwithstanding).

    Yet, when invited to actually do what you say you could and should do in the space provided below, you will not.

    -

    You've never met a prisoner abuse, an impunity for Jewish thuggery, a land theft, or a discrimination action by the Jewish state and the Juedo Nazi stormtroopers, the Gopsteins, the Marzels, the Ginsburgs, that has ever moved you to speak up.

    הוֹאִיל וַהֲווֹ יָתְבִי רַבָּנַן וְלָא מַחוֹ בֵּיהּ שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ קָא נִיחָא לְהוּ

    -

    You know why you and the Rabbi Doctor have never and will never oppose even those aspects of the occupation that don't relate to securing Jewish lives. I refer to the ethnic cleansing, the land grabs, the humiliation and degradation of a nation. As a trivial example, the state's blessing of impunity to the racist Jewish thugs in this video here:

    https://www.btselem.org/video/20220828_settlers_throw_stones_at_palestinian_homes_and_cars_in_presence_of_soldier_

    Leibowitz knew, you know, and I know that the nation of Palestine wouldn't quietly assent to foreign rule any more than the nation of Israel quietly assented to British rule. Without those coercive aspects of the occupation, without the racism, without the constant effort of the stormtroopers of the occupation to keep the natives' heads bowed in submission to their masters, there could be no tekumah for the occupation at all.

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    If I'm wrong, speak up! Tell me about how the solider standing there in the video watching Jewish thugs throw stones at Arab cars should have at least asked them to stop. Here is your chance to prove me wrong, to make me look like a complete fool whose entire view of the occupation is conspiratorial

    -

    But you won't. I'm not wrong. This evil is inextricably bound up in the occupation, and you know it. You cannot condemn the lawless thuggish youths without condemning the entire occupation.

    ReplyDelete

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