Thursday, December 30, 2021

Hashem Yikom Dama

A young woman in Israel, Shifra Horowitz, committed suicide last night. She was a victim of Chaim Walder. According to her friends, she could not take seeing all the adulation of him surrounding his death.

If "the masses speaking lashon hara" are responsible for Walder's death, then who is responsible for her death?


56 comments:

  1. I hope Rabbi Lau attends her funeral at the very least

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    1. He didn't. And even if he attends the shiva, it will only be because of the backlash against his visiting the Walders.

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    2. how can he go to the funeral? its not confirmed that she was one of his victims yet. going would be confirming that. additionally going to the shiva was absolutely right considering how the family who did nothing wrong have gone through hell that is second only to the victims. the victims themselves appreciate that point. its a shame you cant.

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    3. Are we sure the family did nothing wrong? It is possible they were totally unaware but often families of predators ignore signs. I would not make any assumptions about the family.

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    4. so im not sure you are familiar with this but theres a concept called dan lekaf zechus. this is the default for everyone until they are taken out of this category with definitive decision from a bes din. that is why we know unfortunately that cw is guilty of his crimes. his family are religious chareidi jews. not only is there nothing indicative of their knowledge of the events, it is more probable that they were in the dark. so i cant believe we are even getting to dan lekaf zchus as there is no reason to even assume guilt before dan lekaf zchus takes care of that. on paper this is a family that just lost everything including from standing in society a future and in all probability someone they related to as a loving father. in fact, that is probably what rabbi lau's decision was based off of. and to ASSUME that they did know?!

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  2. Unbelievable. Walder's not only a pervert, a rapist, and a coward, he's also a murderer (indirectly). I hope he gets long torment in Gehenna.

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  3. You'll believe anything, as long as you think its useful to attack your former community for rejecting you.

    “When a man stops believing in God, he doesn't then believe in nothing - he believes anything.” - G.K. Chesterton

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    1. Well, charedim evidently stopped believing in God, because they believe in gedolim instead.

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    2. where is the logic in that? a gadol is by definition a gadol in torah which is kinda the basis of judaism and epitome of belief in God so the people who know and study the most Torah are the best people to turn to when confused about what He wants.

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  4. Have you checked the reliability of this before posting? Was she in fact abused by Walder?
    Even if this were to be true I really feel that things need to be thoroughly verified before being displayed in a public setting - this is one of the biggest issues of the MeToo movement which is seeping into our society.

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    1. 22 people testified against him at a Bait Din. THe Bait Din found him guilty.

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    2. Here's your confirmation that she was a victim of Walder:
      https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/319590

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  5. So sad!
    It made me cry. LItterally.

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  6. Total lack of competence for reposting this. This whole story is unconfirmed rumors!
    The story itself is riddled with inconsistency; such as, the freinds hadn't been in contact for a few days. Yet somehow they know what happened to her or why she took her own life?

    Is it even verified that she had previously seen Walder in therapy? How do you know that the freinds aren't hijacking his death?

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  7. It started with 3 victims.

    I remember thinking then that if he was actually guilty of 3 victims 20 years ago, and only stopped because of practicalities, the actual number of victims will be far higher.

    Well, the new number is 22. And I predict the actual number will be between 50-100.

    The Charedi news outlets can stick their ostrich heads in the sand all they want. Walder will go down in history, and when I say down, I mean down, down, down....as one of the worst scandals in Jewish Charedi society ever.

    They are idiots because their pronounced ignorance of it does not change what everyone else is thinking.

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    1. Bingo: "pronounced ignorance of it does not change what everyone else is thinking."

      The court of public opinion has tried the case and the charedi establishment is ultra guilty. All the ad hoc defenses can never undo this.

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    2. no one denied his guilt. however, the way the case was handled was not how religious jews do things. rabbi edelstein himself never vindicated walder. his statement was merely a cautonary warning as to how to deal with the situation going forward according to halacha. i guess as the saying goes daas BAAL HABOSS kineged daas torah rings true here.

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  8. As an aside, I’ very happy you dropped the Last post. שירבו כמוך בישראל!

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  9. Reading the original article I don't see any good reason to surmise that she was a victim of Walder. This is just a guess of a friend who didn't even know where she lived. There could be many reasons why she committed suicide and the suicide if Walder is just a confounding factor. Suicides become more common after a public suicide. This just fake news. https://www.srugim.co.il/632783-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%90%D7%91%D7%93%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%94-%D7%94%D7%99%D7%90-%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9C-%D7%96%D7%A2%D7%A7%D7%94-%D7%A9%D7%9B%D7%9C-%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95-%D7%A7%D7%95-%D7%A9%D7%91%D7%A8

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    1. Here's your confirmation that she was a victim of Walder:
      https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/319590

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    2. I don't see any proof there. All that it quotes is this journalist that made that claim on Facebook without divulging where he leaned that information.

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  10. So hareidi leaders shamed her, and are responsible for her death?

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    1. by egla arufa the zkeinem say yadeinu lo shafchu
      KT

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  11. I wonder what the convo between her and Walder sounds like in the heavenly spheres. Sure bet it sounds a lot different than the dialogue down here.

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    1. yup walders like "ive messed up alotta people but who r u?"

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  12. I disagree a lot with what the author posts, but it's hard to argue with his sentiments here - aside from the fact that he paints all chareidim in one broad stroke, that part is just disgusting.
    Whether this particular story is totally true or not, the hespedim and articles/praises were terrible and one can only imagine the pain that must cause his victims.
    It's one thing to not jump to a guilty judgment without clear conclusions, but to actively praise such a monster is just so wrong and uncalled for.

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    1. Nobody paints hareidim with the same brush. Many Hareidim are disgusted by the latest events

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    2. The problem in the Haredi community is systemic, independent of the morality of most Haredim. It is far too easy for a רשע גמור to disguise himself as Haredi just by keeping all מצוות בין אדם למקום. Then he can violate whatever מצוות בין אדם לחברו he wants and get away with it. The real Haredim always will automatically defend him from external attack.

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  13. Let's see if the Hareidim even make any mention of this , let alone accept responsibility>?

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  14. Rabbi Edelstein and the charedi media outlets are now jubilantly congratulating themselves. They insisted that we must be silent and not talk lashon hara Chas veshalom about the monster. We must certainly not talk about the predatory activities which caused misery and torment to dozens of young, vulnerable people - even if that might bring some desperately needed succor, support and validation to the victims. No, even better, we should praise him for the good he did, zecher tzaddik livracha. The people touting themselves as being the leaders of morality have descended onto the depths of the evil of COMPLICITY. (I should add that I was brought up in that world. The one I'm now ashamed and sick of.)

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    1. Welcome to the light and out of the darkness. I read recently that the dropout rate from Haredi society is around 10%. We can only hope that continues to grow.

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  15. the straight haredi line--lashon hara against Walder led to his selbstmort, the accusers are chayav mita. they continue lies serving no toeles . But for all the chatter here and the twit-world, haredi society in no way is influenced-the major haremedia remains intact . wanna bet there will be no Ami-Mishpacha-Yated etc coverage, and if any , accentuate the harm these accusers do to holy rabbis.... another internet related plague

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  16. Something is very wrong here. Smells like someone is playing games. We have no proof of anything? Walder never had a chance in court. Why the heak should we believe this girl had anything to do with Walder? It's easy to blame. Now, everything that happens is Walders fault. We are living in sick times? The same Rabbi who said we everyone should get crapcinated is playing G-D. What a shame! I dont believ any of this sheker.

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    1. Walder didn't have a chance in court?????

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    2. No, Chaim Walder was summoned to beis din several times, and refused to come. He was scheduled to come with a rav to present arguments in his defense this week, but he unfortunately committed suicide before.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsmxzgncXmY

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    3. Someone is playing games....that just says everything....revolting

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  17. We have to be careful. Firstly is the story verified? How do we know it's not another made-up story? Secondly, Rabbi Walder was a good person. Although I never read him, he wrote wonderful books. Although he was involved with and did tragic things, we should not hate him (Rav Kook).

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    1. The damage he caused way outweighs any good his books have caused. Shem resha'im yirkav

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    2. In what way was he a good person.

      This part really bothers me. All the accolades incl calling him Zatsal.

      Sure he wrote enjoyable books mostly for kids which were probably a lot embellished or made up.

      In what way does that make him a tzaddik? Pls can someone explain.

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    3. Rabbi Walder was a good person. Because he was created in the image of G-d as it is impossible for there to be no good thing created by G-d.

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  18. RNS
    I don't really wish to comment on this story (due to my Rosh Yeshiva RGE words being taken out of context) however just wanted to ask you.
    Do you ever attack Dati Leumi Rabbis or is it only Chareidi ones (due to your books being banned)???
    Have a look at the video below from rabbi Aviner (especially from minute 24 which is more direct than any chareidi rabbi I have heard)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjNVUhtoUYg

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    1. His condescending tone of voice is grotesque. I do hope R Natan does a piece on him too.

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    2. Baal Ha Boss

      RNS won't as he only attacks Charedim (for personal reasons)
      He also won't mention that RGE has now clarified his position and it definitely is not what was first publicised.

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  19. > If "the masses speaking lashon hara" are responsible for Walder's death, then who is responsible for her death?

    Well obviously those same people are responsible because if they hadn't spoken out, Walder wouldn't have killed himself and this wouldn't be such a big news item and she wouldn't have been so distressed and done this. So again, it's because people spoke badly about Walder.
    (Sarcasm intended)

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  20. Rabbi Slifkin, if you would like to see R Gershon elaborate on his daas torah see:
    https://www.jdn.co.il/j_world/1668825/?source=realatedArticles

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  21. see the video of Rabbi Jaconson (in Hebrew) https://www.kikar.co.il/409021.html

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  22. for those justifying walder and doubting that he and the chareidi response was responsible for the young lady's death, can you really be sure that walder committed suicide because of the accusations? maybe there was another reason ? did anyone really see his supposed suicide note? and maybe it was forged to hide the other reasons?

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  23. And then you wonder why chareidim are held in such contempt by everyone else.

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  24. By that logic Hitler was a “good person” as well. You’re someone I’d highly recommend just keep quiet.

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  25. The blood is boiling on the floor of the azarah and the comment section here is like "pfft that looks like ketchup to me"

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  26. Since when an adulation is the excuse for a (self)-murder?
    After so hard words righteously accusing CW in his suicide... Clearly a double standard.
    (Please don't take me incorrectly - don't have any intention to defend CW!)

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  27. Apparently, she was NOT a Walder victim (at least not directly, although she was certainly an indirect victim of his suicide and the aftermath)
    https://www.mako.co.il/women-weekend/Article-11573b0b48e2e71027.htm
    Ash

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