Saturday, June 19, 2021

"Sssshhh!!!!"

"Why do you have to point out problems in the charedi world? Why do you have to be so negative? What are you going to accomplish, anyway? Besides, you have impure motivations, so you're not allowed to say it!"

As you can imagine, these criticisms comes up a lot. I wrote a post in response last year, but I think it's time for another!

Every society has its problems, some more serious, some less serious. Charedi society has some very serious problems indeed, relating to institutionalized poverty and fundamental issues regarding a widespread failure to contribute to the economy and the military. Aside from the immense harm that this causes to charedi society, these are problems which economists rate as a major threat to the entire State of Israel. Even some people in the charedi world have openly acknowledged that these are extremely serious national problems.

In open and free societies, there is generally no shortage of people calling out the problems that exist. In charedi society, there is very much a deficit of this. The charedi press follows a certain party line and stifles dissent. The charedi voices that I mentioned above as calling out the problems are rare exceptions, who are making little headway. 

Furthermore, many of the problems are facilitated by distortions of classical Jewish theology, or of factual reality, which few people have the combination of scholarship, intellectual honesty, freedom and desire to call out. There's not too many forums in which people are explaining why concepts such as "Talmud Torah Keneged Kulam" and "Torah LiShmah" do not at all mean what they are popularly thought to mean, or which point out why the much-vaunted charedi higher education and army programs are unfortunately of considerably smaller significance than is often believed.

Discussing these issues on this website makes an impact in all kinds of ways. First of all, the many thousands of readers include many people within the charedi world, some of whom influence the lives of many others as well as their own. And it's also important for people outside of the charedi world to be aware of these issues, so that they can make better-informed choices on issues such as where they send their children to be educated and who to vote for. (Did you know that the new government in Israel will be removing the legal prohibition against charedim age 21-24 going to work - which the charedi parties oppose?)

Finally, to address the claims about my motivations. Aside from the fact that there are many misconceptions about my motivations (which have much more to do with living in Beit Shemesh than what happened with my books), it's just irrelevant. You don't stop someone trying to put out a fire just because you think he has bad reasons for doing so.

(It's important to remember that to the extent that the problem of child molestation is at all taken seriously in the charedi world, this is primarily because there was some "nasty" blogs insisting on calling it out. Even Agudas Yisrael admitted this.)

Some people have very nice, idealistic reasons for wanting to sweep problems under the carpet and paint a rosy picture of the charedi world. But in doing so, they are contributing to the problems. The first step to solving problems is to acknowledge their existence.

 

See too: "Isn't It Lashon Hara? Do I Have Noble Motives? And What Do I Hope To Accomplish?"

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59 comments:

  1. In humans, external criticism triggers a neurological chemical cascade that leads people to shut the critique out and clam down. It creates the opposite effect of what is desired and prevents all change and growth.

    The same happens to societies criticized from the outside. If you would have wanted to help create positive change you would have worked hard to support change-agents and cheered for every little improvement, just like people do when they are trying to encourage change in a person they love.

    Your attitude towards the charedi community is counterproductive. And I very much hope you do not resort to the same techniques when tryng to encourage change in your family.

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    1. What you describe is *one way* to cause change. There are others. In fact, the single most powerful way to change charedi society is to have them not in the government.

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    2. lhavdil elef alfei havdalot, worth thinking about from a longer article on Iran's government

      The revolution may or may not be competent at administering every last function of state and society. But the process leaves it with no real rivals from within or below.

      KT

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  2. I don't think your detractors here really understand Israeli Haredim. Haredim in America often have a tendency to assume they're the same as Haredim here; an understandable but very misguided notion. I knew a man in the US, a prominent Haredi Rosh yeshiva, who told me once that he moved to yerushalayim a while back and lasted about a year. He said the Haredim in Israel were off the wall.

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    1. How so?

      I'm very interested in this, because I live in and out of town community that is mostly Haredi.

      And these are some perfectly awful human beings, and I can't imagine how much worse it could be.

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    2. Isaac "lasted about a year"

      Sounds like the Satmar Rov.
      Left Palestine after a year, cause his charedim would not honor him. Came to 'treifeneh medinah" and made it big.

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    3. He said his kids were viciously bullied for being American, and the atmosphere was overall extremely oppressive compared to what he was used to.

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  3. The primary recent criticism of younis why you focus on the Chareidim community and ignore the festering racism and large irreligiousity of the DL community. It is interesting how you never criticize them.
    Can you elaborate what you mean by saying that living in RBS contributed to your anti-charedism?

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  4. Even if there are flaws in chareidi society, the flaws in secular society, which is the vast majority of Israeli society, are infinitely greater. As they are עובר על כל התורה כולה on a regular basis. Therefore, you should focus your attention and influence on them.

    Furthermore, the very reason you give for writing about chareidim, that there is a deficit of people in the chareidi press calling out their "problems", exists to a much greater extent in secular society. It is extremely rare to find secular media protesting rampant chillul shabbos, lack of taharas hamishpacha, lack of kashrus, lack of davening, learning, or saying brachos, and countless other mitzvos and aveiros. Therefore, by your own argument, you should focus your attention on where it is needed the most.

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  5. is anyone providing a similar service for the RZ/MO communities?
    KT

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  6. Also, when you write that chareidi rabbis, who are far more knowledgeable than you, "distort classical theology", you are no different than an anti-vaxxer who writes that doctors who prescribe vaccines "distort classical medicine." The gap in knowledge between an anti-vaxxer and a real doctor, is probably smaller than the gap in Torah knowledge between yourself and any number of chareidi rabbis.

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    1. Lol, this is exactly like the claim that of course I am wrong about Judaism allowing for an age of dinosaurs, because the Gedolim who banned my books know much more Torah than me.

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    2. They *do* know much more than you. You are just making the classic anti-vax argument: "I did my research" or "The doctors didn't figure out x and y".

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    3. happygoluckypersonage, It might be a good idea to think of the countervailing response before commenting. I studied many years in Yeshiva. While Talmidei Chachamim have expertise within a major corpus of knowledge, it is still mostly within confined parameters.

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    4. @Happy, I don't regard your mashal as at all accurate. I don't seem them as "doctors" - more like practitioners of voodoo.

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    5. But respect for medical Gedolim is every bit as arbitrary as respect for religious ones.

      The only thing worthy of respect is scientifically obtained evidence.

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    6. Slifkin - your explanation makes the mashal even more apt.......

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    7. Rabbi Slifkin, It is 100% accurate, because anti-vaxxers say exactly the same thing, that doctors are just practitioners of voodoo. When you say such things, you are coming from ignorance, and it's easy to see.

      Yehoshua, anti-vaxxers say exactly the same thing about doctors, that their knowledge is confined, etc.

      Delete
    8. Happy,
      Do you honestly believe that the average Charedi Gadol is an expert in Ev"d, Emunah HaRamah, MN, Or Hashem, or Sefer HaIkkarim? They presumably have extensive knowledge in Ramban al HaTorah, and some knowledge of Kisvei Rambam and Kuzari. Other than that you can not honestly assert they are experts in the Jewish theology of the Rishonim. Thus, they aren't like medical professionals who are experts in the area under discussion.

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    9. I sure would like to know exactly what it means to say that Haredi Rabbis I'm more knowledgeable than such and such.

      I guess the question becomes what it means to know something.

      If you say that somebody knows how to milk a cow, it means that you give them a pail and they come back with milk.

      If you say that somebody "knows a lot of torah" I'm just not sure what that could mean.

      1. Does it mean that they can influence large numbers of people? (In which case, why is not all of Judaism black hat?)

      2. Does it mean that they can sort out their own affairs? (In which case, why do these pedophilia issues keep happening over and over and over again with the effective benediction of leadership in different cities? Malka Leifer didn't come out of nowhere.)

      3. Does it mean that if they know something then they can find a reason to do whatever that is that they want to do? (In that case, if you have a lesbian pedophile headmistress, then that means that she can justify her desires as saying that lesbianism is not prohibited in the Torah and if you do whatever you do to underage girls, they don't qualify as witnesses anyway?)

      At the beginning of this journey, it seemed so clear what it meant to know torah.

      Alas, that is getting less clear every day.

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    11. Dave, other than that? Other than that?!! Are you aware that Chumash, Tanach, meforshim on them, Shas, Medrash, their meforshim, Mussar seforim, even sifrei poskim are absolutely chock full of Jewish theology?! Jewish theology doesn't start or end with the MN.

      Secondly, in another post I showed that many chareidi Gedolim are absolutely well versed in the MN and Sefer Haikkarim.

      But let me ask this in the other direction. Do you honestly believe that the average doctor is an expert in every single one of the thousands of studies and papers about vaccines? Or every single statement of Bill Gates? Even the average epidemiologist? Obviously not. Yet you still trust them. So you are just applying a standard to Rabbis that you would never apply to any other experts.

      Delete
    12. Tanach, Midrash, Shas can all be hopelessly misunderstood without the guiding lights of the Rishonim. This is standard Charedi fare, so your gesture to those books is disingenuous at best. The meforshim on Shas do contain some theological assumptions but they are quite limited. The amount of theology in any one of the seforim I listed far outstrips that which is in all of the Tosafos in Shas (probably with Rashi together).
      Where I come from the Rishonim reign supreme. You can throw all of your mussar seforim at me and that wouldn't impress me in the slightest if you don't know vos shtait in the Rishonim. (Unless you're referring to Rabbeinu Yonah, but that contains little theology of the sort we are discussing. The only exception that comes to mind is Chovos HaLevovos, but of course most everyone skips shaar hayichud anyway. Do they learn Hamaspik?)
      And then you say theology doesn't start and end with MN which really annoys me because you are just being terribly dishonest again. I might have listed one or two seforim that aren't MN, I'll have to check.

      Please list for me the Charedi Gedolim who are/were expert in MN and Sefer HaIkkarim and your proofs. Other than R' Shlomo Fisher and some self serving familial claims about R' Chaim (and maybe R' Meir Simchah), I can't easily think of them.

      Your comparison to doctors is atrocious, as is your assumption about learning. A guy who knows what "the poskim etc. say" but doesn't know the basic Rishonim (the ones I listed are absolutely basic to the topic) would be laughed out of the Beis Midrash. A halachist who doesn't know the Rif, Rambam and Rosh, but knows teshuvos seforim and MB is no halachist at all.

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    13. Dave, the MN and E'vd can also be hopelessly misunderstood. And it is, by the likes of these "rationalists". That's how somebody wrote on the previous post "According to the Neviim, Hashem finds shemiras Shabbos disgusting if one doesn't also improve the economy". This guy probably thinks he learned the MN. But he definitely never learned Tanach, Shas, or poskim.

      This is an example of theology. What else is included in theology? The importance of Talmud Torah. Here again we find many statement in Shas, WITH Rishonim AND halacha about how important it is and the parameters. What about the question if one can argue with Chazal? Also theology, and also very much discussed in Shas and poskim. The question of Tzadik vra lo? Very much discussed in Tanach WITH their meforshei Rishonim as well as Shas and Medrash. How much hishtdadlus is appropriate? Again, very much discussed in Tanach with meforshim, Shas, and poskim. And countless such examples.

      So the idea that Jewish theology is mainly the seforim you mentioned is just your own boich sevara that you made up yesterday. You really seem to think that any Tom, Dick, or Harry, or Natan, is more qualified than R Wosner Zt"l to discuss issues of overwhelming importance in Judaism, because they "learned" the MN or Emunos v'Deos, and he didn't (as an example, no idea if he did or didn't). It's absurd, preposterous, a complete farce.

      As for chareidi rabbis who were well versed in MN, I checked Michtav M'Eliyahu, Alei Shur, and Ohr Yechezkel, and even Nefesh Shimshon, and found several references to the MN in each. You are welcome to do the same. Were they experts on MN specifically? I have no idea. But I trust their theology infinitely more than some Tom, Dick, or Harry, or Menachem who is a complete am haaretz in all other matters, but wrote some essays about the rationalism of Maimonides.

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    14. It has less to do with knowing texts and more to do with worldview. E.g., there have been many Talmudists who read the text of Rambam, but nevertheless performed revisionism on him to turn him into a mystic, because they were ideologically opposed to accepting him as a rationalist.

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    15. Rabbi Slifkin, this is what I mean by anti-vaxxer. That line sounds exactly like what an anti-vaxxer would say "It's less to do with medical knowledge and more to do with the Big Pharma worldview".

      Besides, one can say the same about yourself. There have been many non-Talmudists who read the text of Rambam, but nevertheless performed revisionism on him to turn him into a secularist, because they were ideologically opposed to accepting him as a chareidi.

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    16. That's right, from each person's worldview, the other person is operating from a completely different worldview, and thus is not respected as an expert.

      (One reason why I find my worldview more convincing is that it does not religiously require shoehorning every other religious authority into the same worldview.)

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    17. Rabbi Slifkin, I think you will find chareidi rabbis also don't shoehorn every religious authority into the same worldview. Just off the top of my head, I think you will find many agree with the statement of the Gr"a, that the Rambam was wrong for promoting the philosophical worldview. Or the Chovos Halevavos was misguided with his Shaar Hayichud. This is the opposite of shoehorning.

      But other than that, I guess we agree, for once. Mazel Tov!

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    18. Your mention of R' Dessler shows how clueless you are. In one case he references the MN by saying "shamati" that it says such and such in the MN (in the intro!!!) and he misquotes it. So, R' Dessler didn't know the MN ad k'dai kach that he couldn't quote even the intro on his own, but was quoting something he had *heard* from it. Furthermore, look it up, you'll see he is misquoting.
      RSZA - as big a halachist as you can imagine - reveals how little he knew about the issue of Chazal vs science when he said that he couldn't recall who or if anyone argues on R' Avraham ben HaRambam. (He added that it seemed to him that perhaps Tos. etc. argue but he wasn't sure about that.) Suffice it to say that RSZA was nothing less than expert on any halachic issue under the sun. Obviously, his expertise in one area didn't extend to another. That's a muferashe RSZA, but the narrative must be defended, so carry on with the contortions.

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    19. No Dave, it is you who have revealed that you are clueless. R' Dessler actually quotes the MN on numerous occasions, look it up. Look at the other seforim as well. We had this discussion before, with you under a different name, and I already trounced you, not sure why you are coming back, ככלב שב על קיאו.

      As for RSZA, he was correct that it would be hard to find Rishonim who argue befeirush with R' Avraham ben Harambam (but obviously he doesn't need my haskama). But that doesn't mean that they do agree, and indeed they imply in countless places that they don't agree. All this reveals is your own am ha'aratzus, as well as your outstanding chutzpah. If you think there's a source that RSZA missed, by all means say it, but in a respectful way. Given your brazen display of ignorance, I'm not holding my breath.

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    20. Still there, Dave? Have you come up with the sources that RSZA missed? You seemed very confident that you knew more than him (about this topic) when you said "RSZA...reveals how little he knew about the issue of Chazal vs science when he said that he couldn't recall who or if anyone argues on R' Avraham ben HaRambam."

      I mean, with such a self-assured statement, you must have many sources that you think RSZA missed. Sources in Rishonim that argue explicitly with R' Avraham ben HaRambam. Right? Right?! So where are they? Come on, show the world how much more you know than the Gadol Hador!

      Also, did you look in the Michtav M'Eliyahu? Instead of just spouting nonsense? Did you see all the places where he actually quotes MN? What about the other seforim I mentioned?

      See, this is what I mean by every Tom, Dick and Harry thinking they know more than people much greater than them, because they read the MN. Or looked into the science/Torah issue. All of the sudden, these amei haaretz, and I mean amei haaretz gemurim, think they are more qualified to talk about important Torah issues than the greatest talmidei chachamim. But when they actually talk about it, they just issue a stream of endless nonsense from their talking hole. This is the guy who said "Hashem finds shemiras Shabbos disgusting if one doesn't also improve the economy". This is the guy who wrote an essay about how Lashon Hara is not a such a grave sin halachically, but is more in the domain of mussar. And this describes you as well.

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  7. You have no sense of proportion.

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  8. Swing and a miss.

    Classic Slifkinian where the comparison seems buttoned up but upon closer examination it evaporates.

    The argument is that the motivations behind the incessant Haredi attacks are irrelevant because "you don't stop someone trying to put out a fire just because you think he has bad reasons for doing so".

    Indeed when putting out a fire the motive becomes irrelevant because there is no need to demonstrate motive. Even if an alternate motive could be established, it wouldn't matter.

    Here, it is a matter of opinions. You aren't proving a mathematical equation. You are sharing your views on issues.

    But there is a big elephant in the room. We know that you authored literature that angered people in the Haredi communities and that it resulted in a fight and a public ban.

    Thus, it can be argued that your articles attacking Haredim from so many angles are inspired by feelings of hatred or a desire for revenge or other reasons. (In fact on this very blog you pretty much admit it!)

    Thus, motive is important. It lets people know that opinions expressed by you on such topics are likely to be tainted and that they should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Slifkinian indeed.

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  9. Your community did more harm politically to the State of Israel last week than the chareidim have done in 70 years. And you barely spoke about it.

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  10. We have a cognitive bias issue here.

    Humans evolved as warring tribes. The instinct to dislike another tribe, *especially* the closest in proximity, with slightly different cultural habits, appears hard wired. This phenomenon was referred to by Freud in one of his rare insights that have stood the test of time as the narcissism of small differences.

    Some Charedim, especially in Ramat Beit Shemesh, behave tribally. They saw a school belonging to a different tribe as a tribal issue and felt the need to enforce the borders. Most Charedim felt nothing about the issue, and did not feel the need to jeer at little girls and call them whores. But the human mind extrapolates, and the battle lines were drawn with the result that RBS is a city pregnant with the narcissism of small differences and sectarian tribalism.

    We have to be charitable to the Rabbi Dr. He doesn't spend sufficient time in communities where by and large different Jewish tribes live at ease with each other. It has after all been a long time since he lived in Manchester.

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  11. If anyone thinks they are helping Israel by sounding off on Facebook; or that this post will change the dynamics with Charedim: then they are wrong.

    The only question with this coalition is my whether they will manage to hold it together until before or after Netanyahu is tried.

    If you want a new path with Charedim don't vote for Bennett (who would prefer coalition with them) Likud, or the Kahanaists. Vote for Lapid. It's that simple.

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    1. Lapid will ruin the country, not KahanaistsJune 20, 2021 at 7:43 PM

      Lapid will ruin the country. We need Kahanaists in power. The Left Lapid wants to open the borders to Arab invaders. Are you seriously going to argue that Marxism is the answer? Personally, I would take Bibi any day over Lapid.

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    2. Wow, so now Lapid is the marxist left?

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  12. "You don't stop someone trying to put out a fire just because you think he has bad reasons for doing so."

    Well.... If you know that this "fireman" doesn't like you, and yet he keeps coming to your house almost daily to put out fires, and he keeps causing tons of water damage to your house, and he keeps coming by to inspect your house for anything flammable, and for some reason he never responds to fires in his own town... Then yes, you actually do want to stop such a person.

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    1. 100%. Especially when the fires in his own town are much bigger. And almost every house is on fire.

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  13. You are at your best when your blog does what it says on the tin - in other words, when you promote rationalist Judaism on its own merits. Of course, as part of doing so, it will sometimes (not always) be necessary to point out a contrast with and the deficiencies of other traditions and possibly of the communities that claim to subscribe to them, in terms of the practical impact and implementation of beliefs that stand in contrast to rationalist Judaism. Insofar as that goes, your blog will be religious-philosophical in nature and will stimulate respectful debate and mutual understanding between the communities that make up Israeli and global Jewish society.

    But too often, we open the tin and find that the contents are nothing to do with religion or Judaism per se at all - it's just socio-economic political mud-slinging, detracting only one community whose stereotyped monotone lifestyle and values you disapprove of, only one tradition that stands in opposition to rationalist Judaism: an extended anti-chareidi polemic, often highly distasteful in tone and selective (at best) in what it focusses on or in the "evidence" cited.

    You often truthfully point out the many faults in the chareidi world, and this is sometimes entirely justified, such as when these are causing manifest harm both inside the chareidi communities (there is not one single, monolithic and homogenous chareidi community, as you know). For example, your extended campaign against chareidi laxness and poor leadership around Covid (though you are slow or reluctant to acknowledge that there are many - not enough, sadly - in the chareidi world who also take Covid and vaccination seriously, and who are actually quite rationalist in their eclectic approach) or the tragedy in Meron.

    But at other times, you seem to be doing nothing more than chareidi-bashing for the sake of it. Not benefitting anyone; not about ideas or principles. Just stoking the flames of hatred, derision and machlokes. Not adding one scintilla of understanding of or respect for rationalist Judaism.

    And yes, I have read your attempts to justify what you do. They ring hollow.

    At such times times, your "tin" would be better labelled "Anti-Chareidism". Maybe start another blog for that stuff - then people can decide for themselves whether this is a tin they're interested in opening.

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  14. Based on the picture I thought you would write about the former chareidi turned DL MK

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  15. Let's be intellectually honest about charedi societyJune 20, 2021 at 7:35 PM

    I agree that charedi society has problems. Every society does. But many feel you are being obsessed with it. I can understand the obsession, (you were once charedi) and, as a result, I won't use the term "obsessed." It seems as though every article nowadays is calling out the flaws in charedi society. The tone is a big part here and I can see why many take issue with the tone of this post even if they (like myself) generally agree with it.

    Generally, I am a huge fan of your work even though I may disagree with some of your political views and stance toward charedim. Yet, on the other hand, Satmar are too far gone. My question is, do you think you could get the truth out with a lesser tone? I feel that many charedim here feel like they're getting picked on. I know you have good intentions, even if many can't detect them and it is good to put out the fire, in other words, these are good criticisms but they don't inspire charedim to improve (given the tone thing). It's like your removing the engine without offering a better alternative. You try to make it flowery and respectful yet it comes off as if you don't care and you never seem to miss an opportunity to bash charedim.

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  16. RNS, I posed this question a while ago, and you ignored it, (although a certain confused person came to "defend" you, which is strange- as an earnest question is hardly an attack.. ve'hamaskil yavin) so I hope you can be kind enough to answer this time around. It went as follows: It would seem that according to your worldview, that which is caused by man's negligence can not be chalked up to "the hand of G-d", and can not be left to G-d to fix; nor can the belief that G-d will take care of the resulting problems be deemed "faith". I disagree. But in your line of thinking, I would assume that the state of our planet and its billions of inhabitants are in, at the very least, a "safeik sakanah" due to climate change. As I assume you do not claim to have all the expertise and knowledge in the sciences involved (correct me if I'm wrong) to be able to refute and disbelieve the countless scientists who believe so, and as they mostly posit that the problem is largely man-made, it would follow, I imagine, that the most pressing issue of our time for ANYONE- would be this one. If so, how can you possibly be so occupied with the issues with which you are constantly busy, i.e. community issues, chareidi ideology, etc.- when literally every last person's life is at stake? And even if you are skeptical of the issue, isn't it at least serious enough to spend time and energy into researching the topic? Or posting about it to raise awareness or bring clarity? What would the Rambam say in your view? If it behooves all the chareidim and chareidi leaders to address issues of human negligence, until the point that they must come under constant blame for neglecting to do so, then how exactly do you "pattur yourself up" from the presumed responsibility of every person to relentlessly combat the most prominent issue in the history of the world?

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  17. I think most readers agree with the criticism laid out in this blog. Id also imagine that moist people can't take it anymore. It seems to have become like the frum version of failed messiah....

    This blog is insufferable.

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    1. At least Failed Messiah was a only a person just writing like anyone can do. When he mixed someone up in a story he wouldn't take no for an answer but he was only a blogger.

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  18. The issue is not criticizing charedi society, its that your spectacular hypocrisy makes you not very effective at it. Also, there is the dishonesty in presenting this site as a forum for "Rationalist Judaism" when clearly it's not. Further, your criticism suffers from a lack of credibility because, like former alcoholics, it is well known that former adherents to something - like Charedi society - are always over-critical about it after they've left. You further lost credibility when you attacked Charedim on corona, an issue in which every day it becomes clearer that they were right all along, and you and the so-called "science" was a fraud. Your concurrent starry-eyed enthusiasm for left-wing modern orthodoxy also doesn't help your claims of objectivity. Finally, there's such a thing as too much, you know what I mean? You've been on this kick for waaaaaay too long. Enough already.

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    1. "You further lost credibility when you attacked Charedim on corona, an issue in which every day it becomes clearer that they were right all along"

      Revisionism. They were never right all along. RCK repeated demanded that people listen to Health Ministry guidelines. They didn't listen and suffered from disproportionate deaths and a PR disaster.

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  19. "Rabbi Dr. Natan SlifkinJune 20, 2021 at 8:31 AM
    @Happy, I don't regard your mashal as at all accurate. I don't seem them as "doctors" - more like practitioners of voodoo."

    Why?

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  20. Most Chassidim don't stay if at all in Kollel.

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  21. Who precisely are and were like the practioners of Voodoo?

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  22. You see anyone not having academic qualification and making Psak not on that basis as more like a practioner of Voodoo?

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    1. Huh? No. I was giving a mashal about subscribing to a completely different system of thought.

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  23. Please keep up your very important and good work. CHazak V'ematz

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  24. “ concepts such as "Talmud Torah Keneged Kulam" and "Torah LiShmah" do not at all mean what they are popularly thought to mean” - almost an exact quote from RIMBD. (R’ Indigo Montoya ben Domingo).

    Lol, thanks!

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  25. Rabbi Slifkin the issue is that you only criticize the charedei world about their issues but no one else. There are many Jews in Israel who are irreligious and even antireligious whether it be charedei, dati le'umi or anything else. They are fighting for every Toevah to be allowed in Israel and everything which angers G-D. Your criticism against the chareidim may be justified but when they're your only target it shows that your criticism is coming from a secular point of view which is why chareidim don't take it seriously. Additionally the Torah makes it very clear that economic hardship and attacks from our enemies is a result of our disloyalty to G-D so unless you don't believe in the Torah you must accept that the secular are equally (if not more) responsible for the problems in Israel

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