Thursday, June 3, 2021

An Underappreciated Wonder

Many people are expressing amazement at the extraordinary unity coalition that was just formed in Israel. It's truly an astonishing testimony to how people can work together when they are determined to do so. Of course, there is the benefit of ousting Bibi (who has accomplished amazing things for Israel, but was ruining the country by putting his political survival above the country's wellbeing). But that does not undermine the accomplishment of creating such a broad coalition.

At the same time, many people who voted for Bennett are absolutely furious with him and feel betrayed. As someone who voted for Bennett myself, I am aligned with many others who believe that he did exactly the right thing, which is to deal with the circumstances at hand in the best way. I would like to point out a few underappreciated ways in which his decision was correct.

First is that the Bennett-haters, even from their right-wing perspective, are making the same mistake that many of those who oppose the '67 conquest of Judea and Samaria make. With any given course of action, you can't pass absolute judgment on it; you have to evaluate it in light of the alternatives. Controlling the lives of millions of Palestinians might indeed be awful, but if the alternative is a terror state firing missiles at Tel Aviv, then it's preferable. Likewise, you might not want Bennett making any compromises with Lapid or Mansour Abbas, but the alternative is not a right-wing government; it's either endless elections (which is absolutely terrible for the country) or a government in which Lapid doesn't even need Bennett.

The second point to take into account is that last night, a terrible blow was struck to Hamas. Dr. Joshua Berman expresses this well:

The formation of the new government in Israel is a massive blow to Hamas and denies it two of its major achievements from the last round of fighting.

1. Hamas fired its first rockets the day before this very coalition was set to ink an agreement on May 11. When negotiations for this coalition were discontinued, Hamas scored a huge victory: it demonstrated that it had the power to make or break coalitions in Israel.

2. Hamas basked in its capacity to bring about unprecedented mutiny by Israeli Arabs and the threat of out and out civil war. Imagine how emboldened Hamas would have been to let loose its rockets again had those signature achievements remained. 

Instead, the formation of the new government--including for the first time the participation of an Arab party in spite of the pummeling of Gaza--demonstrates that Hamas is not the kingmaker in Israeli politics, and that the will of the Arab community to work towards coexistence is actually far stronger than many imagined.

Finally, here's something else to appreciate: the new coalition government in Israel will have one of the largest number of Zionist MKs of any government in the last few decades. 

This is, of course, because the non-Zionist charedi parties are not part of it. And this provides a unique opportunity to make necessary changes to help the charedi community, which has been greatly harmed by its elected representatives indulging their short-term needs at the cost of their long-term wellbeing. Radical change is needed to prevent the charedi community causing immense harm to itself and the country as a whole, and this government might possibly be able to make this happen.

67 comments:

  1. "Controlling the lives of millions of Palestinians might indeed be awful, but if the alternative is a terror state firing missiles at Tel Aviv, "

    1) A terror state has just demonstrated its ability to do precisely that with the occupation. What exactly has your occupation helped secure? Are West Bank missiles pointier than Gazan ones? Anyway, are residents of the South less entitled to security than residents of Tel Aviv?

    2) There is a civilian occupation and let's face it, must of the military occupation is used to secure the former. What is the pressing security need for Yitzhar or the 3,000 soldiers deployed defending the settlers in Chevron? The occupation is its own security problem.

    So spare me your crocodile tears - you like the occupation because you want to steal the land without paying for it in democratic representation for the civilians who live there under military rule.

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    1. Maybe the military occupation in the West Bank is the reason there is no rocket fire from there?

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    2. The situation with Hamas came about decades after the decision to hold on to the West Bank after the 67 War. And the situation with Hamas demonstrates what happens when Israel tries a hands-off approach to Palestinians.

      So, you're not really helping your case by pointing out Gaza. If anything, you're propping up an argument to retake Gaza and create a literal open-air prison to keep Hamas and PIJ from obtaining anything more dangerous than steak knives.

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    3. Yehuda P: assuredly the occupation of the West Bank is the reason why there is no missile fire from there in the medium term.

      So what? A missile is a missile, Gazan or otherwise. It is completely unacceptable.

      The only way to stop the terror is to change Palestinian political leadership by both political and military means. This involves stopping cutting the legs from underneath moderate Palestinians - and stopping the Netanyahu/ Qatari money flows to terrorists. It involves political compromises. It involves .ending the settlement project.

      Netanyahu has led Israel through 3 ever-wars with Hamas. Building ever thicker bomb shelters and anti missile systems costing 100,000USD per shot is not a strategy.

      Forgive me for being old fashioned but I would suggest that the next time we go to war with Gaza or a WB terror state of the future, we should have the strategic goal and intent of winning.

      Delete
    4. Missile fire from the west bank would be exponentially worse than what we currently face.
      And there is no simple "win" in Gaza.
      You're just spewing nonsense about things you know nothing about.

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    5. Do you know who stopped firing rockets at us? Lebanon. They like their power stations, bridges and airports intact. So do we. So they basically make bellicose threats on TV, excitedly fire rockets into the sea, and essentially leave us alone, and we basically make bellicose threats on TV, shoot up some fields if they shoot rockets, and essentially leave them alone. If you create a peaceful status quo which is better than a state of conflict, experience has shown that peace takes root.

      I'm not sure why Isaac thinks West Bank rockets would be pointier (and shinier) ones than Gazan ones. It's not like there is a single patch of ground in the entire state of Israel which is out of the range of their rockets. We've gone though this whole charade to stop a single rocket on Tel Aviv, and now it turns out that the security hawks of the right have been misunderstood entirely: they actually always believed that multiple volleys of well over 100 are acceptable, that the international airport being closed was 'meh', and that 10 dead civillians was a clear Israeli victory.

      Let me be very clear. I am advocating for 200-300 Israeli KIAs, 20-30 AFV hull losses, probably 400+ seriously WIAs, 2-3 helicopter losses, 5,000 Gazan civilian deaths, probably 20-30 Israeli civilian deaths; a two month bitter engagement along the lines of the Battle of Mosul, and a complete win in Gaza. I am advocating for temporary refugee camps to be set up in Israel proper to house the civilians of Gaza fleeing the utter destruction behind them.

      You know, an actual war of the type the infantry are actually trained for. If it's good enough for the Americans ten thousand miles from their borders, it's good enough for the Israelis 50 kilometres from Tel Aviv.

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    6. The west bank is much closer to central Israel, and geographically sits above it. This means the rockets will do much more damage. This means that they don't need long range rockets to hit Tel Aviv. This means that any Jo shmo can wake up one morning and fire a 20 dollar rocket into the heart of Israel. That is not the situation currently in Gaza.
      And I'm not sure why you are simultaneously suggesting a massive ground operation in one arena and a withdrawal from another. You realize the only reason Hamas hasn't taken over the west bank is because of the IDF right?

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    7. Could you quantify what weight of explosive over Jerusalem and Tel Aviv is the acceptable weight?

      My answer is very simple. The same weight as is acceptable over Sderot or at Ashkelon, or Ashdod or Ofakim or Netiv Haasra. Zero.

      I don't think the residents of Central Israel have any greater entitlement to security than the residents of the South.

      The point of wars is to win. I am suggesting that despite Lebanon 2006 being a clear tactician loss, Israel achieved its strategic goal of ensuring quiet.

      The same type of war I am proposing against Gaza would be needed if rockets were fired from WB. But it would not be a forever war.

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    8. Bibi's politics was not ''procrastination''. It was about destroying Oslo peace plans. As long as Hamas is a (minor) threat for Israel's civilians, he can get away with ongoing jewish construction in the West Bank, and prolonged occupation, because people will say: ''Controlling the lives of millions of Palestinians might indeed be awful, but if the alternative is a terror state firing missiles at Tel Aviv, then it's preferable''.
      No. You could say that if that was the only thing Israel is doing (and I would still disagree). But when they are also effectively transferring a big chunk of their population on the territory they already agreed to give back, and making every diplomatic effort so that Palestine never exists, while at the same time refusing to give the arabs they occupy civil rights in Israel in the name of the two-state solution, every person with eyes to see knows that argument is a joke.
      And I doubt a coalition led by Lapid could do better in that area. Maybe if Bennett had more seats we would at least (and at long last) admit that Israel now wants a one state solution, with arabs as second class citizens, which would have the merit of being honest.
      And about charedis, we'll see. It's rarely a good idea to want to change them from the outside, but who knows? Maybe now is the right time.

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    9. But what if Hamas is elected democratically to be the leadership of the Palestinian people? It won't be possible to remove them militarily, if that's what the Palestinian people want.
      And I don't foresee them ever giving up their goal of destroying Israel. If they did, they wouldn't be Hamas anymore.

      Delete
    10. @the hat

      Hamas/Iran/PIJ armed with rockets and advantageous positions in the west bank would be devastating for Israeli security. Like existentially. Why would Israel put themselves in that position willingly?
      What the people in the sderot have to live through is a crime. But the solution is not to put Tel Aviv in the same position to make things fair.

      Delete
    11. Forgive me for being old fashioned but I would suggest that the next time we go to war with Gaza or a WB terror state of the future, we should have the strategic goal and intent of winning.
      ..


      You accept that wb will be a terror state in the future. Yet you still want it.

      Leftist confusion.

      Prevention is better than cure.

      Delete
    12. Isaac, I'm not being obtuse, I genuinely do not believe an Arab governed West Bank would be any more of an existential threat to Israel in 2022 versus 1966. What has changed is that manoeuvre warfare has become more difficult due to the power and portability of ATGMs. However hard a fight in Gaza city or into Ramallah would be, a Palestinian ground push into Tel Aviv would be harder.

      Elevation of less than 1km counts for rather little when you are firing, say, the 50 km from Ramallah to Tel Aviv - which is pretty much the same as as the 60km from Beit Hanoun to Tel Aviv. I genuinely don't think the West Bank would have significantly different leverage than the Gaza Strip. I'm falling to see in qualitative terms how it gets any worse than 4,000 projectiles in 11 days reaching the length and breadth of the country and shutting down Ben Gurion. The worry is that Jerusalem would become Sderot? But Sderot is already Sderot!

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    13. The hat.

      Hizbollah are building up their strength from day to day. Currently they have upto 150,000 missiles pointing at Israel. Israel does not have the ability to stop this threat.

      and you want another 150,000 in west bank as well.

      Why?

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    14. " A terror state has just demonstrated its ability to do precisely that with the occupation."

      So in your opinion Israel is a terror state. Explains a lot. Do you want it defeated ?

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    15. "It involves political compromises. It involves .ending the settlement project"

      Ending the settlement project will not end terror. Terror increased when Israel ended the gaza settlement project.

      Had Israel kept the Gaza settlement project, we would not be mowing the lawn every couple of years.

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    16. "Are West Bank missiles pointier than Gazan ones?"

      Is this your killer point. Rather weak. Even if you were right that West Bank missiles are not pointier than Gazan missiles, the point is that it is bad enough that Israel has to suffer from Gazan missiles due to an hypocritical world which does not want Palestinian civilian casualties, why add west bank missiles to gazan missiles?

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    17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2hZ6SlSqq0
      outstanding Explanation: Why Israel can't withdraw to its pre '67 borders line

      Delete
  2. No Charedi parties - do you think Meron will finally get the investigation it deserves!?

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  3. A correction: This is not the first time an Arab party was in a coalition. Every coalition from 1949 to 1977 included at least one Arab party.

    I will continue correcting journalists on this until it kills me.

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    Replies
    1. Could you please elaborate on that? I would love to know more about it! Even just a source would do! Thanks!

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    2. True but the Arab parties in the coalition were Mapai/Labor satellites and did not hold any ministerial positions.

      Delete
  4. Enraged PartisanJune 3, 2021 at 12:50 PM

    As usual The Hat is obsessed with sounding intelligent but making arguments that are devoid of any sound reasoning.

    Yehuda P already stated the enormous hole in The Hat's "logic". Boggles the mind that was actually put forth as an argument. Unless it comes from someone who is a supporter of "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free".

    Cue the ad hominems from The Hat:

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    1. Ad Hominem? Why would you suggest that?
      /s

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    2. The Hat's logic was in fact the logic employed in the Oslo Accords: It only made sense that, as the Palestinians' economic situation would improve, and that they would see the fruits of negotiations, they would become more moderate. Israel would transfer more of Area B to Area A, and Area C to Area B, until the Palestinians would have a contiguous state/autonomous region in the West Bank.

      But we have already seen that they became more belligerent, as the "peace process" has gone on.

      Delete
    3. The Hat's logic is based on the radical concept that a political peace is possible between former enemies.

      (Egypt. Jordan. UAE. Saudi Arabia.)

      Peace can only come in its political time, and peace can only come from painful political sacrifice. From giving Palestinian moderates strength and political wins.

      And from military strength. From fighting and defeating terrorists on the battlefield.

      The next Gaza war should be like the months long battles of Mosul, of Raqqa, of Al-Bab. A bloody war above and below the ground, a fight to the death with hundreds of Israeli military dead, but a war with a strategic goal. The kind of war Netanyahu spent two decades avoiding. The kind of war Israel was accustomed to fight right up until the quagmire of Beirut.

      The kind of war which in 2007 would have taken two weeks to utterly defeat Hamas in their fight with Fatah, which would have prevented the passage leadership of the strip to people we cannot live with.

      Ask the residents of Ashdod and Ashkelon and Tel Aviv how the 'mowing the lawn' policy is working for them over the past two decades. Has their sacrifice been worth it?

      The preventing rockets on Tel Aviv theory does not work any more. The rockets are already on Tel Aviv, and each round of violence gets worse.

      Delete
    4. Enraged PartisanJune 3, 2021 at 6:44 PM

      My comment was meant to be a reply on the first thread. It's one thing to have thought that logic would work 20+ years ago. Quite another to think that now with all the "experience" we've had.

      Ad hominems - Take a look at some of his previous postings. http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2021/05/the-world-wide-war.html?showComment=1622539561788#c1460696944154435831

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    5. The "preventing rockets over Tel Aviv theory" logic would work 12 years ago when Netanyahu began his reign of procrastination.

      Given that it has not in fact achieved its very modest stated goal of preventing rockets over Tel Aviv it is time for a change.

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    6. "From giving Palestinian moderates strength and political wins."

      That requires first identifying who is a moderate and who merely poses as a moderate in order to secure either concessions from Israel or pressure from western do-gooders on Israel to make such concessions. Have you ever heard of the "Phased Plan?" A genuine moderate would reject any such project, but Arafat said on the day of signing the Oslo Accords that doing so was in keeping with the Phased Plan.

      Genuine moderates would include Khaled Abu Toameh and Muhammad Daoudi Dajani. What do you propose to do to strengthen Palestinians of that nature?

      Delete
    7. Sar Shalom: great question.

      Quick short term answer in one character:$ (and guns and training).

      Medium term: removing the most egregious and illegal settlements. Give them political wins. Show peace works.

      And long term: ceding almost all of the West Bank including East Jerusalem (arrangements to be made for burials in Har Zeisim, kevas rochal). Palestinian sovereignty on Har Habayis with a protective fence to be built to stop idiots. more $ (the EU, US and Gulf states to provide bulk of funding) to sweeten the deal on no law of return. If a Jew wants to live in Palestine, gezunterheit and good luck and a guarantee the status quo will be maintained. Compensation for anyone who wants to move back to IL proper.

      Delete
    8. If a Jew wants to live in Palestine, gezunterheit
      ....

      Abbas has already declared Judea has to be Jew free.

      Jewish concessions are seen as weakness and invite more terror. Remember what happened after Barak's far reaching concessions at camp David.

      It was faced with the biggest terror campaign ever.

      Please explain why Israel should give the temple mount to the Arabs. It is Israel's holiest site. The muslims' 3rd holiest.

      Delete
    9. A bloody war above and below the ground, a fight to the death with hundreds of Israeli military dead, but a war with a strategic goal. The kind of war Netanyahu spent two decades avoiding. The kind of war Israel was accustomed to fight right up until the quagmire of Beirut.

      ...


      Only possible under Trump not Biden. Lets see first if Trump stands for president.

      Failing that there has to be a 9/11 in europe or usa to unite the west against the islamo fascists.

      Delete
    10. Like a politician, you left the question I asked alone and answered the question you want to ask. I explicitly asked if you are familiar with the "Phased Plan" and implicitly asked how you characterize a moderate. My final paragraph giving examples of moderates gives my idea of what constitutes a moderate. If you have a more expansive idea, what qualifies?

      "Give them political wins."

      Who would get the win if Israel does as you say? Even if the winner is who you think it would be, is that potential winner a genuine moderate?

      Now for the basics of the "Phased Plan." It is a plan devised by the PLO in the 1970s to pursue diplomatic channels to "liberate" parts of Palestine and once the diplomatic channel is tapped out to use what was gained by that channel as a base from which to "liberate" the remainder.

      What this shows is that the difference between Fatah and Hamas is not that Fatah will accept the 1967 territories while Hamas insists on the entirety of Israel. The difference is that Hamas refuses to actively create a pretense (and sometimes tries to correct those who create such a pretense on their behalf) that they will accept less than the entirety of Israel and will make do with the support for its cause that it will get as a result while Fatah will make pretenses of accepting less than everything in order to procure western support so as to facilitate the cause of totally eradicating Israel. PMW has numerous videos of senior Fatah figures stating that the result of fulfilling their demands is Israel's total eradication, but that they have to watch where they say that because openly claiming that objective would cause their western support to evaporate.

      For what qualifies as genuine moderation, I'd suggest watching Einat Wilf's description of what influenced her thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDrQ_wgfYdo .

      My own wording of what would qualify as genuine moderation would be to state that 1) the Jews are a people and 2) the Jewish people are deeply connected to the land of Israel in general and Jerusalem in particular. Admitting those two facts prejudices nothing as to who will possess any particular dunam. However, it does mean that you cannot condemn Israelis as interlopers and colonizers who do not belong in the Levant. Refusing to rule out calling Israelis interlopers and colonizers, and only accepting the military reality of their presence, is fake moderation.

      Delete
    11. Yes, both sides are indulging in strategic salami tactics, and there's very few people you can trust. Nevertheless I've often observed that he who pays the piper calls the tune.

      Having said this setting up ideological shibboleths is a complete fantasy. We never made ideological demands from Jordan, Egypt, or Dubai. Look at Northern Ireland where two unsavoury characters - one (Martin McGuiness) has a seat on the army council of a terrorist organisation, the other (Ian Paisley) spent all his days propagandising hatred and support for the UDA - decided enough was enough and that they had more to gain from peace then war. All I would look for from a Palestinian interlocotour would be a) credibility politically and militarily in commanding the streets and b) genuine commitment to a peaceful resolution. Everything else follows from that.

      For example, I would give back Har Habayis to the Arabs because it will always be a predominantly Arab site. Most Jews hold the belief that entry to Har Habayis is forbidden, or just aren't interested in religion and religious sites at all. That being the case, where you have predominantly one state policing the activities of another right next to the border you will show the seeds of future conflicts. The aim of a withdrawal is to give the people minimal points of friction in their day to day lives to incentivise violence.

      Similarly a right to return would create immense potential for violence. That's why I oppose a right to return.

      If you make reaching a practical peaceful solution the priority and let religious, messianic or nationalistic diogmas take a back step then the issues sort themselves.

      Delete
  5. So you think this government will occupy itself with making the changes necessary to help the Charedi world?!
    That is what occupies their minds?
    They might make an onerous draft law, they will not care to 'help' the Charedi world. The very idea is ludicrous.

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  6. Mansour Abbas' move does not reflect an Arab desire for coexistence but rather, that if one can, why not use political leverage to achieve material benefits for Arabs? It is all about Arabs caring about Arabs. Nothing else.

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    1. Astute and correct

      But those who seek international praise will trumpet it as a model of coexistence

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    2. My impression, as an outsider, is that the Israeli political system as a whole is now largely *about* parties using political leverage to achieve material benefits for their own supporters.

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    3. This is what democracy is all about: class and racial conflicts, lies, hatred, funds for themselves and their cronies while destroying the country. The need to secure vites to gain power leaves no other choice. It's a farce. Whatch Amit Siegel's interview with Bennett. Turns out Abbas doesn't support terror and is a decent and honest person in Bennett's own words. As Sharon had famously said: דברים שרואים מכאן לא רואים משם. אין תקווה ואין עתיד.

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  7. Time will tell what this government can accomplish. A prime minister with 7 (sic!) seats? Who publicly had signed a promise not to go with Lapid? This is the government that will save the charedim from themselves? The situation looks pretty much hopeless to me at this point. Poor country has no leadership, no strategy and is in a state of total chaos. Like I'd said before: democracy is the problem because it's a system where liers and crooks vie for power while paralyzing the country.

    I will be happy to be proven wrong, but I think this government will be another disaster. אין תיקווה ואין עתיד.

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  8. As an aside, I've often wondered why some Israeli political party names get translated in English discourse, while others don't.

    E.g. why is Tikvah Hadashah called "New Hope" in English, but Yesh Atid is just ... Yesh Atid?

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    Replies
    1. Because Yesh Atid translated into English sound too idiotic.

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    2. Tikvah Hadashah was originally called Episode IV

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    3. The "New Hope Party" also sounds pretty idiotic -- but there it is.

      I guess it's still better than "To the Right" would be.

      Delete
  9. R' Natan

    Im trying to understand somrething. While it's clear that you're no fan of chareidim or their leadership, what leadership if any do you subscribe to? You posit that this government is likely a good thing. However, there was a 'kol koreh' from Dati Leumi Rabbis decrying this government. So who's Torah so to speak do you follow? Is it that of the Rabbis or your own?

    Im not trying to antagonize you - I simply want to understand.

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    1. If I may put words in others' mouths...

      When the question is a halachic question, ask a rabbi.
      When the question is a medical question, ask a doctor.
      When the question is a political question, ask a political scientist.

      In other words, Dati Leumi rabbis might say they disagree with someone's position, but they don't put up kol korehs because that concept - of having a Torah personage being the sole arbiter of things - does not exist. Whether Covid or politics or tax reform or what have you - follow experts in the field, and then decide yourself.

      Sure, turn to the rabbanim for advice. But at the end of the day, the decision is yours, and it should reflect experts in the thing you are looking at.

      During the time of Tanach, the Navi was not the political head. He was an advisor to the king. One who was not asked about every decision. The kings had their generals and advisors. (Of course, sometimes they listened to the wrong advisors, like Rechavam).

      Delete
  10. If we want to be rationalist about things, we can start by questioning what we're told, over and over again, are supposedly truisms, like "unity is good" or "new elections would be bad."

    Maybe it's because I'm suspicious of government in general, but different politicians getting together is usually not a good thing for the common man.

    Here's an example: About 50% or more of the Israeli population wanted Miriam Peretz as president. Less than 40% wanted Herzog. But the people don't vote, and we always knew Herzog would win. But in terms of percentage, Herzog ended up getting over *75%* of the Knesset vote. That says a lot.

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  11. The main problem is not Abbas. Actually, thanks to him, Lapid agreed not to push pro-LGBT legislations. The main problem is Lieberman who is intended to destroy religious status quo (Shabbat supermarket law, buses on Shabbat, funding Yeshivot, etc). Not surprisingly, even Dati Leumi Rabbonim opposed such coalition.

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  12. Zionism shmionismJune 3, 2021 at 7:22 PM

    Endless elections aren't as bad as a government made up of fools.

    Make no mistake about it. Shaked was dying to be part of the government. She just is afraid of scaring off the right wing by mating with Arabs...so they waited till a few minutes to 12:00 am and then she said, ok what can I do, I'm forced because no government is worse than any government....and stupid people fall for it.

    Just a bunch of power hungry non religious and semi religious weirdos.

    They share their will to get rid of Netanyahu? Yep. Stated more straightforwardly, they share their will for power.

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  13. Of course, you mean "...because the ANTI-Zionist charedi parties are not part of it."

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  14. "And this provides a unique opportunity to make necessary changes to help the charedi community"

    Oooooooooooooooh!!!!! I'm so so so sorry Rabbi Slifkin for thinking badly of you and that you don't like the Charedim, when all the time you were really just trying to think of how best to help them. I really have to start to be דן לכף זכות and start taking you more seriously in future!

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  15. Greaat. Let's cut funding to Haredim and give more $$$ and a bigger foothold to the Arab enemies- ISLAMISTS. Anything as long as Haredim are hurt. What a farce.
    How are you even a "Rabbi" when your going against the Torah commandment of not to give them a foothold of the land. Yet this coalition wants to give MORE $$$ and power to the enemies of Am Yisrael?
    Shame on you. Your narrow minded hatred of Haredim is driving you to support the leftist-Islamist axis.

    Ssvi

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  17. Bennett is not rightwing, and neither was Bibi (may his political career rest in peace).

    Netanyahu:
    -Froze Jewish building in Judea, Samaria, and Jerusalem for a decade.
    -"Suspended the law" in order to allow all illegal Arab building on Israeli land until 2023. Letting people commit crimes and have at it just because they are Arab. Let them have our land and give them more reason to stay and have more kids.

    Tens of thousands of buildings.

    -Prosecuted any hint at illegal Jewish building.
    -Gave more financial aid to the "Arab sector" than any prime minister in history. Which again invites them to stay, have larger families. Creating more incentive for illegal immigrants from Arab countries to to flood in to get their handouts.
    -Invited the Gulf State Arabs to takeover Israeli companies and technology with their "investments"
    -Invited the Islamist Raam party to enter a coalition govt with him, thus "kashering" the idea for the left of having traitor parties who seek Jewish genocide in the govt coalition.
    -Promised to recognize 3 illegal Bedouin towns in the Negev (after allowing them to build ENTIRE TOWNS illegally by "suspending the law").

    If you had said 20 years ago that an Israeli Prime Minister would do that entire list of things, you would have thought Ehud Barak must be prime minister again in the future.
    But it wasn't. It was the so-called "rightwing" hero Bibi.
    That's not a right wing prime minister.
    That's a phony who duped you with his tough talk.

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    1. Rabbi Mizrachi called Bibi a Lefty. I am not sure I can say I agree.

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  18. It’s actually the second thing the coalition agreed on. Ousting Bibi and hating chareidim. It will be interesting what develops but keep in mind the mystics point to many tragedies that befell Israel after they tried messing with chareidim

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    1. I agree with you that a main coalition goal is using Bibi. I have a hard time disagreeing with that goal. He is under indictment and in the eyes of many, he is increasingly incapable of separating his personal needs from the nation's needs. Had Ganz not been minister of defence, it is highly unlikely that this past war with Gaza would've been so accepted by Israeli public. Our sons are going to battle and putting their lives on the line, the nation needs to show us that it is not political jostling. In Halacha, a communal leader can be removed from office for a קלא לא פסיק. He can have his day in court, but he cannot lead.
      As for the hard hating, I just don't see it. Yes, Lieberman has made a career the last few years as being specifically against haredim, but look at the numbers. Haredim could have joined Lapid without Lieberman (and without even Abbas) and the new get would be more stable than it is now. They rejected this gvt. Not the other way around.

      Reality is, had Bibi kept his word to Ganz, this whole election would not have happened. Haredim, despite convincing Ganz that they would make Bibi keep his word, didnt come through. And now no one believes Bibi. He can offer PM rotation to anyone around and no one will take it. It's unfortunate. He is a great statesman, but his personal faults are coming through. And it's time for him to go.
      This gvt has an opportunity to do a lot of good. It can make us all rethink policies outside of right vs left. Often, when we think about we can see how much we can actually agree on. Just 6 weeks ago today, hated leftist "bogdim" lined up in Kikar Rabin to donate blood for haredim who who were in hospitals from the tragedy in meron. That same leftist "boged" has put his life on the line to defend our haredi kollel from Hamas. We do not need to change our beliefs, or even accept all other opinions as legitimate. But we can stop projecting our own hatred on others.

      Delete
  19. Who was it who said, when you give 2 reasons, the main is the last.

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  20. Dear RNS, you kèp living in illusions. There is no will of the Arab community to work towards coexistence. There is a will of its representatives to destroy the country from mighty position of the gov't.

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    Replies
    1. And yet the Egyptians, Jordanians, Lebanese and the gulf states made their place with us.

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    2. The Hat- Yet most of their citizens HATE Israel and Jews. Go to Egypt with a Kippa. Let's see how long you will survive. Most of these "treaties" were for their own benefit and for their own sake. They all got $$$ from America. Israel got NOTHING in return besides giving up land for nothing.
      Ssvi

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    3. Right. It just goes to show that what is necessary is not that the people of Egypt and Israel have this heartfelt cathartic moment of shared understanding. All that is required is that the violence stops at the mutually agreed border. And the violence has stopped.

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    4. The HAT- Egypt doesn't attack Israel only because they know they will loose. As fast as they think they can defeat Israel, or damage Israel severely, they will attack. Israel lost 3/4th's of the land and all the oil that was discovered in Sinai. Now Sinai is full of ISIS terrorists.
      - "Peace" doesn't happen is short term. We need to look for the long term, security, financial and other considerations.

      Ssvi

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    5. Egypt has a strongman. Once democracy comes to Egypt, the peace treaty will not withstand the deluge of hate.

      Israel has dropped the ball on this.

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  21. It was not the Egyptians or the Jordanians who allied with the Nazis in ww2, to gas all the Jews in Israel. It was the Palestinians under Haj Amin, still viewed as a hero today by Palestinians for his glorious deeds.

    The Allies civilised Germany by making them go through a de-nazification process. Until the Palestinians go through a similar process I see little hope for peace.

    https://silo.pub/the-haj-l-1338003.html

    Feeling that German conquest of Palestine was inevitable, he presented Hitler with a plan to set up gas chambers in the Dothan Valley north of Nablus. Here he would exterminate the Jews of any and all lands the Germans conquered in the Middle East.

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  22. Slifkins personal hatred of Haredim is blinding him to the disaster of giving many times over in Billions to the Arab enemies. The same ones rioting in the streets murdering Jews. The same ones who one day wish to destroy the "Jewish" State and all the Jews inside of it.
    THEY MUST GO!
    Ssvi

    ReplyDelete

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